boeing 737 max 8

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Re: boeing 737 max 8

Post by psychiatry is a scam » Sat Mar 16, 2019 7:42 am

boeing mcas upgrade cost estimated at 2 million per plane !

just a software update ?

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Re: boeing 737 max 8

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Sat Mar 16, 2019 12:21 pm

psychiatry is a scam wrote:
Sat Mar 16, 2019 7:42 am
boeing mcas upgrade cost estimated at 2 million per plane !

just a software update ?
I did a limited google and can only find cost estimates about the downtime of the airplane costing revenue loss for the airlines, not the cost of the software update itself. If the cost is anything over $1.25 it would involve some physical changes to the airplane? maybe throw in some pilot training which would be minimum as most pilots can learn how to push a button fairly quickly.

A nice short overview of the general subject: https://finance.yahoo.com/news/what-hap ... 08838.html
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Re: boeing 737 max 8

Post by landrew » Sat Mar 16, 2019 3:24 pm

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:
Sat Mar 16, 2019 12:21 pm
psychiatry is a scam wrote:
Sat Mar 16, 2019 7:42 am
boeing mcas upgrade cost estimated at 2 million per plane !

just a software update ?
I did a limited google and can only find cost estimates about the downtime of the airplane costing revenue loss for the airlines, not the cost of the software update itself. If the cost is anything over $1.25 it would involve some physical changes to the airplane? maybe throw in some pilot training which would be minimum as most pilots can learn how to push a button fairly quickly.

A nice short overview of the general subject: https://finance.yahoo.com/news/what-hap ... 08838.html
This is the difference between risk-avoidance and risk-management. I believe Boeing felt that the problem had already been resolved by confirming that all pilots were aware of the procedure for turning off the MCAS anti-stall system in the event of a sensor failure that caused the nose to pitch down, and was believed to have caused both crashes. This is a reasonable position from the perspective of risk-management, but the optics to most of the public make it look like Boeing is putting profits ahead of safety. It was for that reason that governments throughout the globe grounded the airplane. I believe the US and Canada were the last to ground the planes because it's likely that their own experts agreed with Boeing's risk-assessment, based on their own risk-analysis. But erosion of public confidence was the over-ruling factor at the end, which resulted in those countries also grounding the plane.

Risk-management is based on a rational process of weighing risks and applying a cost-benefit analysis. Risk-avoidance is not. It is generally emotionally based; a "better safe than sorry" attitude, which is easier to apply when someone else is bearing the costs. But I imagine that Boeing can afford to bear the costs of this, and I'm sure their stock price will recover, and I'm sure they are learning that they should have included the "fear factor" in their risk-analysis. Other companies have gone down for lesser fiascos than this.
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Re: boeing 737 max 8

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Sat Mar 16, 2019 5:25 pm

landrew: what "this" are you referring to? In context: its the cost of the "software fix." I don't see your distinction coming into play there.
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Re: boeing 737 max 8

Post by landrew » Sat Mar 16, 2019 5:37 pm

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:
Sat Mar 16, 2019 5:25 pm
landrew: what "this" are you referring to? In context: its the cost of the "software fix." I don't see your distinction coming into play there.
I don't know if the software fix was planned to be incorporated into the regular maintenance schedule, thereby avoiding the extra costs of special downtime. I haven't heard anything from Boeing to that effect, so the speculation is mine.
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Re: boeing 737 max 8

Post by psychiatry is a scam » Sat Mar 16, 2019 5:49 pm

I think I figured out the problem - wonder where I can go / how to present it - so I get an atta boy

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Re: boeing 737 max 8

Post by psychiatry is a scam » Sat Mar 16, 2019 5:57 pm

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:
Sat Mar 16, 2019 12:21 pm
psychiatry is a scam wrote:
Sat Mar 16, 2019 7:42 am
boeing mcas upgrade cost estimated at 2 million per plane !

just a software update ?
I did a limited google and can only find cost estimates about the downtime of the airplane costing revenue loss for the airlines, not the cost of the software update itself. If the cost is anything over $1.25 it would involve some physical changes to the airplane? maybe throw in some pilot training which would be minimum as most pilots can learn how to push a button fairly quickly.

A nice short overview of the general subject: https://finance.yahoo.com/news/what-hap ... 08838.html
dam , I did it again - no clue where I got that story from :-(

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Re: boeing 737 max 8

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Sat Mar 16, 2019 6:10 pm

Yeah.....I got tired of suggesting it to you. comes down to personal character.............................but then I got rebuked for doing the same, so: there's pros and con's to all we do.
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Re: boeing 737 max 8

Post by psychiatry is a scam » Sat Mar 16, 2019 6:12 pm

anywho - switching from manual to auto will result in erratic operation for several seconds on any process control machine .
not good for a passenger jet that is still climbing after takeoff .

turning on the power / circuit breaker could be worse - especially if its powering up a process control

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Re: boeing 737 max 8

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Sat Mar 16, 2019 6:22 pm

I never experienced anything erratic when turning on or off the autopilot. An occasional small bump just to let us know it woke up...........
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Re: boeing 737 max 8

Post by psychiatry is a scam » Sat Mar 16, 2019 6:26 pm

psychiatry is a scam wrote:
Fri Mar 15, 2019 1:07 am
landrew wrote:
Tue Mar 12, 2019 11:34 pm
psychiatry is a scam wrote:
Tue Mar 12, 2019 11:09 pm

FAA - all the time , money , work , beyond imagination ; to gather pieces and put them back together ?
those people have to be smarter than me beyond my comprehension .

couple ideas maybe only an idiot could come up with .
FAA to pilots --- hey a um you guys / pilots are sleeping too much ; and a your using auto pilot too much .
maybe hours of flying experience should NOT include time on auto pilot ; or even better , should be 2 numbers - actual and auto .

risk management = acceptable losses ?
As a private pilot, I have nothing but the utmost respect for airline pilots. They are the cream of the cream in the commercial pilot world, and the standards they are expected to maintain are beyond what most of us could handle. Autopilot doesn't make pilots lazy, it makes the flights safer and more efficient. Generally speaking, there are few things safer than flying on a modern airliner with a qualified pilot.
malta spitfire the diary of a fighter pilot
George f beurling dso dfc dfm and bar
this guy worked at an airport as a teen just so he could fly planes .
his skill , vision , feel for flying probably never equalled .
all of that probably useless 99.999999% of the time in todays big jets .

doubt any pilot today has his skill in a SHTF situation .
prefer this be looked at as a positive comment of his abilities as opposed to a negative.
just realized these auto pilot systems probably can not do a fraction of what a fighter jet or stunt pilot can do .
fraction of second extreme control , anticipation and knowing .
those systems probably can't even handle extreme weather

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Re: boeing 737 max 8

Post by psychiatry is a scam » Sat Mar 16, 2019 6:30 pm

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:
Sat Mar 16, 2019 6:22 pm
I never experienced anything erratic when turning on or off the autopilot. An occasional small bump just to let us know it woke up...........
would depend on when its turned on ?
if its in flight , not requiring any large correction - not a problem .

but just after takeoff ; while still climbing .
im going with what a couple pilots reported - an extreme reaction

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Re: boeing 737 max 8

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Sat Mar 16, 2019 6:30 pm

Instability is what makes one plane more maneuverable than another. Fighters try to balance that instability so that a pilot can atleast fly it. Todays modern jet fighers are all fly by wire which means the pilot tells the "Flight Computer" to make a climbing right turn and its the COMPUTER that turns the airplane because the pilot could not do it manually: the plane is too unstable.

So.......everything you say is wrong........as if you have no familiarity of airplanes or computers. Combining two unknowns to arrive at a positive statement?? Fun ????
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Re: boeing 737 max 8

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Sat Mar 16, 2019 6:32 pm

psychiatry is a scam wrote:
Sat Mar 16, 2019 6:30 pm
bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:
Sat Mar 16, 2019 6:22 pm
I never experienced anything erratic when turning on or off the autopilot. An occasional small bump just to let us know it woke up...........
would depend on when its turned on ?
if its in flight , not requiring any large correction - not a problem .

but just after takeoff ; while still climbing .
im going with what a couple pilots reported - an extreme reaction
There is no large correction in a climb out after take off, its a very stable experience as you should have experienced yourself? As to an extreme reaction from a MALFUNCTIONING AUTO PILOT? well........yeah. Thats why we don't want malfunctioning auto pilots.
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Re: boeing 737 max 8

Post by psychiatry is a scam » Sat Mar 16, 2019 6:37 pm

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:
Sat Mar 16, 2019 6:22 pm
I never experienced anything erratic when turning on or off the autopilot. An occasional small bump just to let us know it woke up...........
maybe what you were flying was correctly programmed not to make extreme corrections .
and this mcas system trying to prevent a crash - does not have any limts

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Re: boeing 737 max 8

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Sat Mar 16, 2019 6:38 pm

maybe?......................I guess so.
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Re: boeing 737 max 8

Post by psychiatry is a scam » Sat Mar 16, 2019 6:40 pm

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:
Sat Mar 16, 2019 6:30 pm
Instability is what makes one plane more maneuverable than another. Fighters try to balance that instability so that a pilot can atleast fly it. Todays modern jet fighers are all fly by wire which means the pilot tells the "Flight Computer" to make a climbing right turn and its the COMPUTER that turns the airplane because the pilot could not do it manually: the plane is too unstable.

So.......everything you say is wrong........as if you have no familiarity of airplanes or computers. Combining two unknowns to arrive at a positive statement?? Fun ????


ok what about a stunt pilot , can a computer do that ?

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Re: boeing 737 max 8

Post by psychiatry is a scam » Sat Mar 16, 2019 6:44 pm

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:
Sat Mar 16, 2019 6:30 pm
Instability is what makes one plane more maneuverable than another. Fighters try to balance that instability so that a pilot can atleast fly it. Todays modern jet fighers are all fly by wire which means the pilot tells the "Flight Computer" to make a climbing right turn and its the COMPUTER that turns the airplane because the pilot could not do it manually: the plane is too unstable.

So.......everything you say is wrong........as if you have no familiarity of airplanes or computers. Combining two unknowns to arrive at a positive statement?? Fun ????
ok , maybe I am under estimating military jet flight control systems . and have to guess that the boeing 737 has a system just as capable ?

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Re: boeing 737 max 8

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Sat Mar 16, 2019 6:44 pm

I've only heard/seen/noticed that stunt pilots go all manual all the time. Maybe its my own ignorance re computers.......but I don't see why they couldn't be programmed to do: "anything." You do know their internal clocks cycle in nano seconds? Just no call for such programs....the whole point being pilots want to fly the thing.

of note: in some situations its actually true that simple giving up all control inputs will straighten the aircraft out.........ie: until fly by wire many aircraft were "aerodynamically stable." Lots of WW2 stories/facts of pilots being shot down and they bail out of a spinning/out of control fighter only to have it right itself and fly for 300 miles before running out of fuel: all depends on where the trim tabs are.
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Re: boeing 737 max 8

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Sat Mar 16, 2019 6:48 pm

psychiatry is a scam wrote:
Sat Mar 16, 2019 6:44 pm

ok , maybe I am under estimating military jet flight control systems . and have to guess that the boeing 737 has a system just as capable ?
Any system is "capable" if it does what it is advertised to do. I did here one report re the 737 that it has been stretched/modified/ and over powered enough that it was becoming "impossible to fly" without a computer.....I tend to disbelieve that, but it could be true to one degree or another or in certain conditions.

But the POINT HERE is that the soft ware was malfunctioning. THAT has nothing to do with normal operations.
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Re: boeing 737 max 8

Post by psychiatry is a scam » Sat Mar 16, 2019 6:51 pm

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:
Sat Mar 16, 2019 6:30 pm
Instability is what makes one plane more maneuverable than another. Fighters try to balance that instability so that a pilot can atleast fly it. Todays modern jet fighers are all fly by wire which means the pilot tells the "Flight Computer" to make a climbing right turn and its the COMPUTER that turns the airplane because the pilot could not do it manually: the plane is too unstable.

So.......everything you say is wrong........as if you have no familiarity of airplanes or computers. Combining two unknowns to arrive at a positive statement?? Fun ????
I am basing my idea on my experience with fluid level control - so on a scale of 1 to 1000 , I might be a 1 with a tendency to blank up
and that was an excellent point about fighter jets .

but - I just realized - how many fighter jets have crashed in the past couple years ???

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Re: boeing 737 max 8

Post by landrew » Sat Mar 16, 2019 7:07 pm

psychiatry is a scam wrote:
Sat Mar 16, 2019 6:40 pm
bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:
Sat Mar 16, 2019 6:30 pm
Instability is what makes one plane more maneuverable than another. Fighters try to balance that instability so that a pilot can atleast fly it. Todays modern jet fighers are all fly by wire which means the pilot tells the "Flight Computer" to make a climbing right turn and its the COMPUTER that turns the airplane because the pilot could not do it manually: the plane is too unstable.

So.......everything you say is wrong........as if you have no familiarity of airplanes or computers. Combining two unknowns to arrive at a positive statement?? Fun ????


ok what about a stunt pilot , can a computer do that ?
Computers can fly stunts as long as everything goes as expected, but things rarely do, therefore a human is required to figure out how to cope with unforeseen situations.

I've had plenty of things go wrong while piloting a plane. The time I flew into cloud with a Cessna 150, I remembered reading that the way out is to use the turn-and-bank indicator to bank the plane into a 2-minute turn. Holding it there, I watched for 1 minute to elapse on the second hand on the plane's clock. I straightened out, and I was soon back in the clear. It was my first solo flight while earning my pilot's license. A computer could possibly have managed that one.

Another time, in a Piper 180, I'm not so sure. I took off with 4 passengers, including myself and a full tank of fuel. We were close to maximum weight, and I had calculated that there was enough runway to take off. But when we passed the expected takeoff point, and the plane wasn't taking off, I knew something was wrong. A rocky cliff drop-off was coming up at the end of the runway, so I instinctively applied 15 percent flaps, and the plane finally took off. It was a bit sluggish throughout the flight, but we landed without incident. The next day, I learned that the plane had been grounded for repairs to the engine. One of the cylinders had failed and the engine was producing 80% power.

Air travel will probably be the last thing to go autonomous.
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Re: boeing 737 max 8

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Sat Mar 16, 2019 7:59 pm

landrew wrote:
Sat Mar 16, 2019 7:07 pm
psychiatry is a scam wrote:
Sat Mar 16, 2019 6:40 pm

ok what about a stunt pilot , can a computer do that ?
Computers can fly stunts as long as everything goes as expected, but things rarely do, therefore a human is required to figure out how to cope with unforeseen situations. [/quote] Ok....just for grins, what stunt can a computer do? It used to be that "acrobatic flight" was defined as any manuevre that exceeds 30 Degrees Pitch or 60 degrees bank. Perhaps an aileron role being the simpliest of such manuevers....other than a simple stall manuever or a 70 degree bank turn?..........You know......on your way to a barrel roll, cloverleaf, or split S? I'd think actually an autopilot could do an aileron roll and the simpler manuevers. could "start" most of the others, but not complete them?

landrew wrote:
Sat Mar 16, 2019 7:07 pm
I've had plenty of things go wrong while piloting a plane. The time I flew into cloud with a Cessna 150, I remembered reading that the way out is to use the turn-and-bank indicator to bank the plane into a 2-minute turn. Holding it there, I watched for 1 minute to elapse on the second hand on the plane's clock. I straightened out, and I was soon back in the clear. It was my first solo flight while earning my pilot's license. A computer could possibly have managed that one.
Ah yes: "The most difficult manuever in aviation: the 180 Degree turn to abort the mission and go back home. Yep, turn and bank will work if you go to it early while it is still coasting from straight and level. Wait too long and you could still get into a death spiral. The other thing to do is go into a controled stall and spin and recover from the spin when you break out of the clouds........assuming the clouds bottom out above ground level. I never {!#%@} up and went into a cloud during vfr clearance. why didn't you avoid the cloud first? Your last line is unclear..........a level 180 is exactly what computers can do.


landrew wrote:
Sat Mar 16, 2019 7:07 pm

Another time, in a Piper 180, I'm not so sure. I took off with 4 passengers, including myself and a full tank of fuel. We were close to maximum weight, and I had calculated that there was enough runway to take off. But when we passed the expected takeoff point, and the plane wasn't taking off, I knew something was wrong. A rocky cliff drop-off was coming up at the end of the runway, so I instinctively applied 15 percent flaps, and the plane finally took off. It was a bit sluggish throughout the flight, but we landed without incident. The next day, I learned that the plane had been grounded for repairs to the engine. One of the cylinders had failed and the engine was producing 80% power.
War stories are fun. I did much the same thing ONCE. Flying to Denver Colo from the West and we had been airborne two hours or so and one of the passengers said they need a pit stop to go to the bathroom. I looked down and there was a dirt strip airport below us so "for fun" I made a tight spiral down to it and landed. Fun to stretch the legs anyway. "I just assumed" that after two hours of flight time we would be light enough to take off...........well.......that wasn't the case. Thing is........that runway was probably at 6-7-8 thousand feet (On top of a "mesa" in Western Colo) and there were fewer lift molecules in the air at that altitude and temps..........something in the C-141 like weather that I never had to think about. So........like you.........runway was going bye-bye and by the time I figured out it was "serious" we were going fast enough that stopping was not a pleasant consideration. Oh....the runway was also slightly "uphill.".........So....as I gingerly had lift off and gained altitude.......the GROUND STAYED RIGHT WITH US. Add to that the runway had a set of power lines that were 30 feet high and 30 feet to our right........and wouldn't you know....we had a slight left cross wind. Every time I banked a little to stay over the runway at 10 feet up.....the stall warning started to whine. Real fun times. I stayed cool, the passengers enjoyed the low level flying. also of note: this engine tended to overheat on full power takeoff and it was overheating now. I left the power on.....you know....we crash and die or we don't. Well.....the plane and the terrain were both gaining at about the same rate as the oil temperature was increasing. We reached the end of the runway and the terrain fell away to a 2000 foot canyon, so I lowered the nose and eased back on the throttle...........then we hit an eagle and we all died.



landrew wrote:
Sat Mar 16, 2019 7:07 pm

Air travel will probably be the last thing to go autonomous.
its already highly autonomous...just not completely and not exclusively. I agree it will likely never go totally exclusively just for the PR purposes. I can see ground controlled pilots being a real attempt though........drones, missles, and space shuttles guiding the way for years now
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Re: boeing 737 max 8

Post by landrew » Sat Mar 16, 2019 8:38 pm

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:
Sat Mar 16, 2019 7:59 pm

The other thing to do is go into a controled stall and spin and recover from the spin when you break out of the clouds........assuming the clouds bottom out above ground level. I never {!#%@} up and went into a cloud during vfr clearance. why didn't you avoid the cloud first? Your last line is unclear..........a level 180 is exactly what computers can do.
That's the most idiotic thing I ever heard. What moron would intentionally put the plane in a spin, especially after losing all visibility in a cloud? I was barely 2000 feet above the ground at that point. I had completed a weather briefing at the flight service station before setting out on the second leg of my trip, and they assured me that it looked clear. Low cloud rolled in on my flight path, so I made a u-turn to where I knew the air to be clear. I was lucky I didn't end up in a spin after I lost all visibility. I would have screwed the plane into the ground.
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Re: boeing 737 max 8

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Sat Mar 16, 2019 8:44 pm

Whats moronic is a vfr pilot flying into a cloud and trying to blame the weather report..................................

YOU are responsible for EVERYTHING that happens on a flight. Even those things you have no control over. You know what you do have control over?

take a guess:
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Re: boeing 737 max 8

Post by psychiatry is a scam » Sat Mar 16, 2019 10:20 pm

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:
Sat Mar 16, 2019 6:44 pm
I've only heard/seen/noticed that stunt pilots go all manual all the time. Maybe its my own ignorance re computers.......but I don't see why they couldn't be programmed to do: "anything." You do know their internal clocks cycle in nano seconds? Just no call for such programs....the whole point being pilots want to fly the thing.

of note: in some situations its actually true that simple giving up all control inputs will straighten the aircraft out.........ie: until fly by wire many aircraft were "aerodynamically stable." Lots of WW2 stories/facts of pilots being shot down and they bail out of a spinning/out of control fighter only to have it right itself and fly for 300 miles before running out of fuel: all depends on where the trim tabs are.
"internal clocks cycle in nano seconds"

but the flaps are run by electric motors in big jets - fighter jets might use pressure cylinders .
small stunt planes use cable and muscle ???

good debate ? no insults so far , thanx

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Re: boeing 737 max 8

Post by psychiatry is a scam » Sat Mar 16, 2019 10:38 pm

how often do pilots shut off AUTO PILOT on all planes ???
doing that means they do not trust it ?

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Re: boeing 737 max 8

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Sat Mar 16, 2019 11:37 pm

psychiatry is a scam wrote:
Sat Mar 16, 2019 10:20 pm

but the flaps are run by electric motors in big jets -/// Correct
fighter jets might use pressure cylinders ./// Some electric, some hydraullic, none air pressure: unless things have changed.
small stunt planes use cable and muscle /// Pretty much

good debate ? no insults so far , thanx /// Thats what happens when you get off autopilot and go manual: more precise because you are paying attention instead of being half asleep "and on automatic.
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Re: boeing 737 max 8

Post by landrew » Mon Mar 18, 2019 3:35 am

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:
Sat Mar 16, 2019 11:37 pm
psychiatry is a scam wrote:
Sat Mar 16, 2019 10:20 pm

but the flaps are run by electric motors in big jets -/// Correct
fighter jets might use pressure cylinders ./// Some electric, some hydraullic, none air pressure: unless things have changed.
small stunt planes use cable and muscle /// Pretty much

good debate ? no insults so far , thanx /// Thats what happens when you get off autopilot and go manual: more precise because you are paying attention instead of being half asleep "and on automatic.
:senile:
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Re: boeing 737 max 8

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Tue Mar 19, 2019 1:11 am

landrew: who lost what? Figure out when to stall/spin/recover an aircraft yet???

I woke up thinking that compressed air (actually just a bleed line from the first compressor stage of the jet engine) is used to expand the anti-ice baffles on the leading edge of the HC-141...........or was it some other airplane I read about??? anyway: yes, there could be some compressed air devices on modern air craft.
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Re: boeing 737 max 8

Post by Gord » Tue Mar 19, 2019 9:06 am

psychiatry is a scam wrote:
Sat Mar 16, 2019 5:57 pm
bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:
Sat Mar 16, 2019 12:21 pm
psychiatry is a scam wrote:
Sat Mar 16, 2019 7:42 am
boeing mcas upgrade cost estimated at 2 million per plane !

just a software update ?
I did a limited google and can only find cost estimates about the downtime of the airplane costing revenue loss for the airlines, not the cost of the software update itself. If the cost is anything over $1.25 it would involve some physical changes to the airplane? maybe throw in some pilot training which would be minimum as most pilots can learn how to push a button fairly quickly.

A nice short overview of the general subject: https://finance.yahoo.com/news/what-hap ... 08838.html
dam , I did it again - no clue where I got that story from :-(
Was it msn?

https://www.msn.com/en-ca/lifestyle/tra ... li=BBnb7Kz
...Boeing would like to start installing the patch in about 10 days, both sources said.

However, there is a question of logistics involving where the planes go for the installation....

...Neither source was able to specify the cost of the upgrade, but one analyst estimated it would cost about $2 million for each plane for a total of less than $1 billion for the 371 planes in use currently.
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Re: boeing 737 max 8

Post by landrew » Tue Mar 19, 2019 2:35 pm

A large portion of the cost includes the airlines sending Boeing a bill for lost revenue, according to this article:
https://www.cnn.com/2019/03/13/investin ... index.html

I believe the original plan was to work the upgrade into the regular maintenance cycle.
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Re: boeing 737 max 8

Post by psychiatry is a scam » Wed Mar 20, 2019 7:02 am

Bloomberg - alan Levin and harry suhartono

pilot who hitched a ride saved lion air 737 day before deadly crash

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... er-crashed


why alan b4 harry ?
Last edited by psychiatry is a scam on Thu Mar 21, 2019 10:33 am, edited 3 times in total.

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Re: boeing 737 max 8

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Wed Mar 20, 2019 7:06 am

Game: make short post that may or may not be releant.

Move: provide no Link.

Result: wonder why you don't get any respect.
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Re: boeing 737 max 8

Post by psychiatry is a scam » Wed Mar 20, 2019 8:24 pm

ny times 3/20/19 tiffany hsu - ford to build self-driving vehicles .
maybe should have its own thread - but a good example of how bosses can ignore reality .

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/03/20/busi ... -cars.html
Last edited by psychiatry is a scam on Thu Mar 21, 2019 10:37 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: boeing 737 max 8

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Wed Mar 20, 2019 8:40 pm

Game: make short post that may or may not be releant.

Move: provide no Link.

Result: wonder why you don't get any respect.,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,TIMES 2.

IF I HAD THE POWER: I WOULD SUSPEND YOUR POSTING PRIVILEGES TO THIS THREAD UNTIL YOU PROVIDED LINKS. ............... and I don't think that just me.
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Re: boeing 737 max 8

Post by psychiatry is a scam » Thu Mar 21, 2019 10:20 am

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/03/20/busi ... -cars.html

kind of ironic - just realized i shood try chrome . clueless why ms isnt as easy - guess i need to call mr bill


nyt keeps giving me message - this is your last article --- :-(

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Re: boeing 737 max 8

Post by psychiatry is a scam » Thu Mar 21, 2019 10:43 am

https
Last edited by psychiatry is a scam on Fri Mar 22, 2019 12:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: boeing 737 max 8

Post by psychiatry is a scam » Thu Mar 21, 2019 10:44 am

try again
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Re: boeing 737 max 8

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Thu Mar 21, 2019 3:48 pm

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:
Wed Mar 20, 2019 8:40 pm
Game: make short post that may or may not be releant.

Move: provide no Link.

Result: wonder why you don't get any respect.,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,TIMES 2.

IF I HAD THE POWER: I WOULD SUSPEND YOUR POSTING PRIVILEGES TO THIS THREAD UNTIL YOU PROVIDED LINKS. ............... and I don't think that just me.
Actually, when I posted the above, I "thought" I had started this thread. But PIAS started this thread, and to some degree that actually is irrelevant to how all forums work, if any non-moderator enforcement were to be had, it would be his. I still support/desire all appropriate linkage be made by the poster making reference to such resources.........but I often don't get my way. Life is like that.
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