Jerusalem embassy to be opened by 'religious bigot,' Romney says

God, the FSM, and everything else.
User avatar
Abdul Alhazred
Veteran Poster
Posts: 2935
Joined: Tue Mar 29, 2005 9:08 pm
Custom Title: Yes that one.
Location: Chicago

Jerusalem embassy to be opened by 'religious bigot,' Romney says

Postby Abdul Alhazred » Mon May 14, 2018 3:57 pm

Jerusalem embassy to be opened by 'religious bigot,' Romney says (MSN)

...

"Robert Jeffress says, 'You can't be saved by being a Jew,' and 'Mormonism is a heresy from the pit of Hell,'" Romney wrote in a tweet. "He's said the same about Islam. Such a religious bigot should not be giving the prayer that opens the United States Embassy in Jerusalem."

...


I
Why is anybody officially opening the United States Embassy in Jerusalem with prayer?

Never mind whether it's a Baptist bigot or a squishy soft Unitarian minister. Or a rabbi.

II
Although religious Jews do believe in ultimate redemption from sin by way of a Messiah, the whole "being saved" thing as understood by Christians is rejected.

So the remark about Jews should be uncontroversial.

III
Religious Jews, Mormons, and myself all agree about one thing theological. That Hell does not exist.

So of course we are going there as punishment for that if nothing else. :pr:
Aldous Huxley wrote:A government with a comprehensive plan for the betterment of society is a government that uses torture.

bobbo_the_Pragmatist
Has No Life
Posts: 14331
Joined: Wed Sep 09, 2015 9:39 am
Custom Title: bobbo da existential pragmatist

Re: Jerusalem embassy to be opened by 'religious bigot,' Romney says

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Mon May 14, 2018 4:07 pm

Abdul Alhazred wrote:Why is anybody officially opening the United States Embassy in Jerusalem with prayer?

to keep the sheep grazing?

good point though. but I wouldn't push the issue to hard. the fragile wall between guberment and religion could all fall down.
Real Name: bobbo the existential pragmatic evangelical anti-theist and Class Warrior.
Asking: What is the most good for the most people?
Sample Issue: Should the Feds provide all babies with free diapers?

User avatar
scrmbldggs
Real Skeptic
Posts: 22526
Joined: Sun May 20, 2012 7:55 am
Custom Title: something
Location: somewhere

Re: Jerusalem embassy to be opened by 'religious bigot,' Romney says

Postby scrmbldggs » Mon May 14, 2018 4:09 pm

Abdul Alhazred wrote:...Why is anybody officially opening the United States Embassy in Jerusalem with prayer?

Because the US Church* no longer allows the State to be separate from it.




* (Trump's local boss and of the Tea Party)
.

Lard, save me from your followers.

User avatar
Gord
Obnoxious Weed
Posts: 31346
Joined: Wed Apr 29, 2009 2:44 am
Custom Title: Silent Ork
Location: Transcona

Re: Jerusalem embassy to be opened by 'religious bigot,' Romney says

Postby Gord » Tue May 15, 2018 1:50 pm

Actually, having a religious bigot open the US Embassy in Jerusalem is perfectly in keeping with Trump's America.
"Knowledge grows through infinite timelessness" -- the random fictional Deepak Chopra quote site
"Imagine an ennobling of what could be" -- the New Age BS Generator site
"You are also taking my words out of context." -- Justin
"Nullius in verba" -- The Royal Society ["take nobody's word for it"]
#ANDAMOVIE

bobbo_the_Pragmatist
Has No Life
Posts: 14331
Joined: Wed Sep 09, 2015 9:39 am
Custom Title: bobbo da existential pragmatist

Re: Jerusalem embassy to be opened by 'religious bigot,' Romney says

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Tue May 15, 2018 1:53 pm

"Religious Bigot" has always been a term of amusement for me. Same with "Religious Fanatic." At the heart, what this means is they actually and fully believe some religious tenet. IOW, they aren't hypocrits.

Most religions/religious beliefs have at their core some bigotry and fanaticism. Don't blame the believer: blame the religion.

Ideas are like that: what is really being discussed/described?
Real Name: bobbo the existential pragmatic evangelical anti-theist and Class Warrior.
Asking: What is the most good for the most people?
Sample Issue: Should the Feds provide all babies with free diapers?

User avatar
Abdul Alhazred
Veteran Poster
Posts: 2935
Joined: Tue Mar 29, 2005 9:08 pm
Custom Title: Yes that one.
Location: Chicago

Re: Jerusalem embassy to be opened by 'religious bigot,' Romney says

Postby Abdul Alhazred » Tue May 15, 2018 10:15 pm

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote: At the heart, what this means is they actually and fully believe some religious tenet ...


"Fanatic" could be anything.

"Bigot" implies a tenet that has something to do with requiring ill treatment of infidels.
Aldous Huxley wrote:A government with a comprehensive plan for the betterment of society is a government that uses torture.

User avatar
Lance Kennedy
Has No Life
Posts: 11339
Joined: Tue Mar 29, 2005 10:20 pm
Custom Title: Super Skeptic
Location: Paradise, New Zealand

Re: Jerusalem embassy to be opened by 'religious bigot,' Romney says

Postby Lance Kennedy » Tue May 15, 2018 11:13 pm

I wonder if Trumps daughter realises that she is now a murderer ?

The speech she gave at the embassy opening can only inflame the Palestinian people, leading to more conflict and fatalities.

User avatar
Abdul Alhazred
Veteran Poster
Posts: 2935
Joined: Tue Mar 29, 2005 9:08 pm
Custom Title: Yes that one.
Location: Chicago

Re: Jerusalem embassy to be opened by 'religious bigot,' Romney says

Postby Abdul Alhazred » Wed May 16, 2018 8:49 am

Lance Kennedy wrote:I wonder if Trumps daughter realises that she is now a murderer ?

The speech she gave at the embassy opening can only inflame the Palestinian people, leading to more conflict and fatalities.


A murderer for provoking people?

It's her fault the Palestinians want to exterminate the Israelis and will use any excuse?

Because Palestinians have no free will?

Your position equates to saying Palestinians are not really human.
Aldous Huxley wrote:A government with a comprehensive plan for the betterment of society is a government that uses torture.

User avatar
Lance Kennedy
Has No Life
Posts: 11339
Joined: Tue Mar 29, 2005 10:20 pm
Custom Title: Super Skeptic
Location: Paradise, New Zealand

Re: Jerusalem embassy to be opened by 'religious bigot,' Romney says

Postby Lance Kennedy » Wed May 16, 2018 9:09 am

The problem is that Palestinians are all too human. That means they tend, like other humans, to be ruled largely by their emotions. That includes anger. They have a lot to be angry about.

When some blithering moron like any member of the Trump family comes along and tells them that they are not a part of their own homeland, they naturally get angry. Angry young men do violent things. Such things lead to consequences including arsehole Israelis shooting them dead.

bobbo_the_Pragmatist
Has No Life
Posts: 14331
Joined: Wed Sep 09, 2015 9:39 am
Custom Title: bobbo da existential pragmatist

Re: Jerusalem embassy to be opened by 'religious bigot,' Romney says

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Wed May 16, 2018 9:24 am

Lance: How are the Israelis being arseholes? You already set the stage with "angry young men doing violent things." The proper response to them is.........what?

.......and even if I agree with whatever you won't post, is it aresholiness to shoot violent protesters AFTER warmed them and demarked the zone where such shootings would take place?

The easiest way to get a fire to go out is to get it in full flame. Letting it smolder for years will not work.
Real Name: bobbo the existential pragmatic evangelical anti-theist and Class Warrior.
Asking: What is the most good for the most people?
Sample Issue: Should the Feds provide all babies with free diapers?

User avatar
ElectricMonk
Persistent Poster
Posts: 3941
Joined: Thu Mar 26, 2015 6:21 pm
Custom Title: The Baby-eating Bishop

Re: Jerusalem embassy to be opened by 'religious bigot,' Romney says

Postby ElectricMonk » Wed May 16, 2018 9:29 am

If you back a person into a corner, you do indeed take away most options: it's not a question of Free Will, but of ways in which the will can still be exercised.
Israel is in the business of taking choice away from Palestinians.
"'I don't know what I was doing wrong, but I promise I won't do it again."
- Daddy Pig

bobbo_the_Pragmatist
Has No Life
Posts: 14331
Joined: Wed Sep 09, 2015 9:39 am
Custom Title: bobbo da existential pragmatist

Re: Jerusalem embassy to be opened by 'religious bigot,' Romney says

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Wed May 16, 2018 9:49 am

EM: thats an interesting and half valid way of characterizing the issue.........some say its how you frame the issue that you take away the free will of those engaged to actually reach a resolution? And this goes back to a question I hinted at somewhere above, or elsewhere, what should the Palestinians do? I really don't think that agitating for the land back in a (war?--wars??), in the establishment of Israel as a Sovereign State, is going to go: ANYWHERE.

You start with what you have, and what you have is the Gaza Strip. Its on the Mediterranean Ocean. DO SOMETHING with what you got. This ties directly to what the Israeli blockade of Gaza is all about? To protect Israel?...or to interfere with P's growth? I don't see any reason at all for Israel not to help the Palestinians grow their own state within Gaza. Its not a wonderful choice, but it may be the only choice the Palestinians actually have.............THAT... or go throw yourself on a fence with live fire coming from the other side?

A two State solution is "possible" in a configuration that applies no where else in the world, but each situation is a product of its own situation. A two State Solution with a Right of Return???? Pulease. Time to deal with reality.
Real Name: bobbo the existential pragmatic evangelical anti-theist and Class Warrior.
Asking: What is the most good for the most people?
Sample Issue: Should the Feds provide all babies with free diapers?

User avatar
ElectricMonk
Persistent Poster
Posts: 3941
Joined: Thu Mar 26, 2015 6:21 pm
Custom Title: The Baby-eating Bishop

Re: Jerusalem embassy to be opened by 'religious bigot,' Romney says

Postby ElectricMonk » Wed May 16, 2018 10:43 am

It isn't just the State of Israel that doesn't give Palestine any options: neither do any of the Muslim neighbors. Palestinians have no other function for them except as a moral shield for their support of terrorism. Should a (nuclear) military strike weaken Israel sufficiently for the Arab nations to invade and take over, they wouldn't let the Palestinians self-govern either.
There is no chance of the half-state to function when the most profitable thing you can do for your family is to become a suicide bomber.
What is needed is a way to make terror not pay, financially and reputationally.
"'I don't know what I was doing wrong, but I promise I won't do it again."
- Daddy Pig

bobbo_the_Pragmatist
Has No Life
Posts: 14331
Joined: Wed Sep 09, 2015 9:39 am
Custom Title: bobbo da existential pragmatist

Re: Jerusalem embassy to be opened by 'religious bigot,' Romney says

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Wed May 16, 2018 11:05 am

EM: I agree, but I assume this is sarcasm that just doesn't hit the mark: "What is needed is a way to make terror not pay, financially and reputationally." //// If you are referring to Hero Payments made to the families of suicide bombers, then the way to make that not pay, is to not pay it? Seems so simple, I feel I am missing some deeper point? Without such a payment, Terror would not pay.........

Pragmatism: take your idea, play it out, where are you? Terror attacks lead you no where.......so........try something else like developing salt tolerant agriculture?
Real Name: bobbo the existential pragmatic evangelical anti-theist and Class Warrior.
Asking: What is the most good for the most people?
Sample Issue: Should the Feds provide all babies with free diapers?

User avatar
ElectricMonk
Persistent Poster
Posts: 3941
Joined: Thu Mar 26, 2015 6:21 pm
Custom Title: The Baby-eating Bishop

Re: Jerusalem embassy to be opened by 'religious bigot,' Romney says

Postby ElectricMonk » Wed May 16, 2018 11:23 am

What an economy needs first and foremost is the belief that tomorrow will be more or less like today; that what you build now won't be destroyed or taken away on someone's whim.
Luxuries like Democracy can come later.

But as I mentioned, no stakeholder in the region wants the Palestinians to become an actual players - they are much less troublesome as pawns. So they are subsidizing a terror industry instead of investing in real industry.

What Palestine needs is a neutral occupation force that gives the people time to think about the future instead of about the fight.
"'I don't know what I was doing wrong, but I promise I won't do it again."
- Daddy Pig

bobbo_the_Pragmatist
Has No Life
Posts: 14331
Joined: Wed Sep 09, 2015 9:39 am
Custom Title: bobbo da existential pragmatist

Re: Jerusalem embassy to be opened by 'religious bigot,' Romney says

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Wed May 16, 2018 3:04 pm

Too many vague terms.......I'm not following what " a player" is or what an actual solution might be. But "things" generally get better or worse, meaning, they don't stay the same.
Real Name: bobbo the existential pragmatic evangelical anti-theist and Class Warrior.
Asking: What is the most good for the most people?
Sample Issue: Should the Feds provide all babies with free diapers?

User avatar
Lance Kennedy
Has No Life
Posts: 11339
Joined: Tue Mar 29, 2005 10:20 pm
Custom Title: Super Skeptic
Location: Paradise, New Zealand

Re: Jerusalem embassy to be opened by 'religious bigot,' Romney says

Postby Lance Kennedy » Wed May 16, 2018 7:17 pm

The Palestinians had their nation stolen from them without recompense. If they were not angry, they would not be human. I am not saying their response is optimal. As I have said in other threads, the most effective response is non violent. However, their violent response is entirely understandable.

bobbo_the_Pragmatist
Has No Life
Posts: 14331
Joined: Wed Sep 09, 2015 9:39 am
Custom Title: bobbo da existential pragmatist

Re: Jerusalem embassy to be opened by 'religious bigot,' Romney says

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Wed May 16, 2018 8:17 pm

Lance: in the sense that I think you mean it: all nations are stolen. What you are doing is looking to the Past. Without an exception....always the worst direction to look.

Their and YOUR response is "understandable" only to the degree you accept hoomans are silly. IOW: totally understandable.
Real Name: bobbo the existential pragmatic evangelical anti-theist and Class Warrior.
Asking: What is the most good for the most people?
Sample Issue: Should the Feds provide all babies with free diapers?

User avatar
ElectricMonk
Persistent Poster
Posts: 3941
Joined: Thu Mar 26, 2015 6:21 pm
Custom Title: The Baby-eating Bishop

Re: Jerusalem embassy to be opened by 'religious bigot,' Romney says

Postby ElectricMonk » Thu May 17, 2018 4:46 am

Israel is much more realistic, some say pessimistic, about the situation: Palestinians and the Arab neighbours follow the script:
1. Destroy Israel
2. ?
3. Profit (or Prophet)

though the more clever ones know that in the absence of Israel, full scale war between Arabs would break out.
"'I don't know what I was doing wrong, but I promise I won't do it again."
- Daddy Pig

User avatar
Lance Kennedy
Has No Life
Posts: 11339
Joined: Tue Mar 29, 2005 10:20 pm
Custom Title: Super Skeptic
Location: Paradise, New Zealand

Re: Jerusalem embassy to be opened by 'religious bigot,' Romney says

Postby Lance Kennedy » Thu May 17, 2018 8:12 am

The original formation of Israel by screwing the human rights of Palestinians was wrong. Unfortunately, it is too late to stop that. Israel exists and will continue to exist. But the wrong was done, and it was done recently. Most of the people's of Gaza are still refugees with no real home, as a direct result of that evil act.

Now we cannot turn back the clock, but we can try to make redress for past wrongs, by helping the victims. That has not been done, and the government of Israel is determined never to take any such responsibility. As I see it, they are a bunch of arseholes. They are now being supported by the prime arsehole, known as the POTUS and his family.

bobbo_the_Pragmatist
Has No Life
Posts: 14331
Joined: Wed Sep 09, 2015 9:39 am
Custom Title: bobbo da existential pragmatist

Re: Jerusalem embassy to be opened by 'religious bigot,' Romney says

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Thu May 17, 2018 2:18 pm

Lance: what are you suggesting Jews all across Europe should have done at the end of WW2?
Real Name: bobbo the existential pragmatic evangelical anti-theist and Class Warrior.
Asking: What is the most good for the most people?
Sample Issue: Should the Feds provide all babies with free diapers?

User avatar
Lance Kennedy
Has No Life
Posts: 11339
Joined: Tue Mar 29, 2005 10:20 pm
Custom Title: Super Skeptic
Location: Paradise, New Zealand

Re: Jerusalem embassy to be opened by 'religious bigot,' Romney says

Postby Lance Kennedy » Thu May 17, 2018 7:59 pm

Bobbo

Those Jews were not refugees. Most had homes. So they moved to Palestine, kicking out the residents, and converting them to refugees instead.

The people of Palestine were victims of one of the greatest crimes of the 20th century.

bobbo_the_Pragmatist
Has No Life
Posts: 14331
Joined: Wed Sep 09, 2015 9:39 am
Custom Title: bobbo da existential pragmatist

Re: Jerusalem embassy to be opened by 'religious bigot,' Romney says

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Thu May 17, 2018 9:11 pm

Lance: what are you suggesting Jews all across Europe should have done at the end of WW2?

"Those jews were not refugees. //// Don't know what you mean to make that relevant to the question. Most had homes. Well.....they all did. Right next door to the people who wanted them dead.

So they moved to Palestine, kicking out the residents
I've tried to research this a bit but haven't gotten far. There are two main versions. Yours, and the other is the Palestinians (sic) fled the area as the Jews arrived so that they could assemble an army to drive them out. All out WAR...and they lost. Refugees or Losers.

Of note: there are Palestinians who have lived within Israel all along. If the Palestinians got kicked out.....how did these dudes stay? ITS ALWAYS A MIX OF THINGS, but my gut hunch is the later story is more true than the former. >>>NOT THAT IT MATTERS AT ALL. History is like that: mostly irrelevant, as in, what you gonna do NOW?
Real Name: bobbo the existential pragmatic evangelical anti-theist and Class Warrior.
Asking: What is the most good for the most people?
Sample Issue: Should the Feds provide all babies with free diapers?

User avatar
Lance Kennedy
Has No Life
Posts: 11339
Joined: Tue Mar 29, 2005 10:20 pm
Custom Title: Super Skeptic
Location: Paradise, New Zealand

Re: Jerusalem embassy to be opened by 'religious bigot,' Romney says

Postby Lance Kennedy » Fri May 18, 2018 12:06 am

Bobbo

Most of the Jews who moved to Palestine, evicting the owners from their homes at the end of WWII, were not from Germany. In fact, the biggest contingent was from the U.S.S.R. Tell me what, in any list of human rights, permits them to evict others from their homes without recompense, when the people evicted have done nothing wrong ?

My father fought in WWII against the German forces, and spent some time in Palestine before they were so badly treated. My father said the Palestinians were wonderful people. Friendly. Hospitable. Supporters of the allies against the Germans. And yet the forces of the USA and Britain, after the war, forced them out of their homes and out of their homeland into becoming refugees. Why ? Because of certain very wealthy people in the USA and Britain who wanted a Jewish homeland. Money talked where human rights were not listened to.

bobbo_the_Pragmatist
Has No Life
Posts: 14331
Joined: Wed Sep 09, 2015 9:39 am
Custom Title: bobbo da existential pragmatist

Re: Jerusalem embassy to be opened by 'religious bigot,' Romney says

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Fri May 18, 2018 12:51 am

we have already identified that as your position. And I identified the other one as my gut hunch. Got any link to anything? Everybody all over the world is friendly, unless you meet them during a skirmish.
Real Name: bobbo the existential pragmatic evangelical anti-theist and Class Warrior.
Asking: What is the most good for the most people?
Sample Issue: Should the Feds provide all babies with free diapers?

User avatar
Lance Kennedy
Has No Life
Posts: 11339
Joined: Tue Mar 29, 2005 10:20 pm
Custom Title: Super Skeptic
Location: Paradise, New Zealand

Re: Jerusalem embassy to be opened by 'religious bigot,' Romney says

Postby Lance Kennedy » Fri May 18, 2018 1:57 am

Bobbo

If the Palestinians ran away to get an army together, a view I have never seen except in your post, it is still the same thing. The Jewish immigrants took their homes and their land without recompense. It was outright theft, and the result was to create numerous refugees. The Palestinians have been fighting ever since for justice and not getting it.

Now, my view is that it is too late to reverse what happened. Several generations of Israelis have been born there, and evicting them would just repeat what was done to the Palestinians, adding a second wrong action. I also believe that the Palestinians are going about their quest for justice the wrong way. Violence is the wrong way.

But neither of those views go against the need for justice and recompense for the Palestinians. The desperate need is for a Palestinian homeland, and lots of $$$$ to be contributed by the biggest criminals, meaning the governments of Israel, the USA, and Britain, who were responsible for the plight of the refugees in the first place.

bobbo_the_Pragmatist
Has No Life
Posts: 14331
Joined: Wed Sep 09, 2015 9:39 am
Custom Title: bobbo da existential pragmatist

Re: Jerusalem embassy to be opened by 'religious bigot,' Romney says

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Fri May 18, 2018 3:03 am

I've already said: all nations are founded on theft and maintained by force.

name a single instance where any invading army has paid the inhabitants for the land they take..............

Find a single source supported by some data field that says the Jews dispossessed the locals as opposed to the locals running away to form an army. Israel was declared in 1948 after a year or so of guerilla activities mostly against the English. On declaration, The Arab-Israeli War of 1948 broke out when five Arab nations invaded territory in the former Palestinian mandate immediately following the announcement of the independence of the state of Israel on May 14, 1948. What do you suppose the dispossessed Palestinians did?
Real Name: bobbo the existential pragmatic evangelical anti-theist and Class Warrior.
Asking: What is the most good for the most people?
Sample Issue: Should the Feds provide all babies with free diapers?

User avatar
Lance Kennedy
Has No Life
Posts: 11339
Joined: Tue Mar 29, 2005 10:20 pm
Custom Title: Super Skeptic
Location: Paradise, New Zealand

Re: Jerusalem embassy to be opened by 'religious bigot,' Romney says

Postby Lance Kennedy » Fri May 18, 2018 4:24 am

What the dispossessed Palestinians have done all along is fight back. Not the best strategy, to be sure, but understandable.

Before WWII, Palestine was a Muslim nation, with a majority of the people being descendants of those who had lived there for up to 1500 years. There were a few Jewish immigrants, sure, but theh were a small minority. There were even Christians. But only Jewish moved in en masse after WWII displacing the native people.

Certainly, Bobbo, nations form from theft and murder. If it were not so, there would be no Europeans living in America. The native peoples had their lands stolen on the backs of widespread murder. But two wrongs do not make a right. For someone to suggest that a past crime makes a more recent crime OK is crap.

Palestine is different in that no effort has been made to make things right. Native Americans have their reservations and quite a lot of money paid to them. Palestinians are still, after about 70 years, refugees in their own traditional lands. Netanyahu could help a lot, but refuses to.

User avatar
ElectricMonk
Persistent Poster
Posts: 3941
Joined: Thu Mar 26, 2015 6:21 pm
Custom Title: The Baby-eating Bishop

Re: Jerusalem embassy to be opened by 'religious bigot,' Romney says

Postby ElectricMonk » Fri May 18, 2018 7:13 am

In the case of Palestine, Israel could indeed pay reparations by paying for the fair value of land in 1948 plus interest.
But that is not what anyone wants.
"'I don't know what I was doing wrong, but I promise I won't do it again."
- Daddy Pig

bobbo_the_Pragmatist
Has No Life
Posts: 14331
Joined: Wed Sep 09, 2015 9:39 am
Custom Title: bobbo da existential pragmatist

Re: Jerusalem embassy to be opened by 'religious bigot,' Romney says

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Fri May 18, 2018 1:50 pm

"You Know:" I really don't "care" about this issue....or most issues for that matter. What captures my attention and interest is how well any position is supported. Rarely have I seen crap piled so high:

Lance Kennedy wrote:What the dispossessed Palestinians have done all along is fight back.
Not exactly right. The first thing they did was reject the UN Mandate for a separate sovereign Palestine because they wanted the entire area free of Jews, then they started a WAR to get all the Land Back and the Death of All Jews AND THEY LOST. Its only then they started "to fight back."

Lance Kennedy wrote:Not the best strategy, to be sure, but understandable.
Only by understanding there are real self destructive ideas that whole groups of people accept.

Lance Kennedy wrote:Before WWII, Palestine was a Muslim nation,
No, there has never been a Palestinian Nation. This is a basic fact and getting this wrong sets you on a path strewn with lots of ignorant and wrong thinking.

Lance Kennedy wrote:with a majority of the people being descendants of those who had lived there for up to 1500 years. There were a few Jewish immigrants, sure, but theh were a small minority. There were even Christians.
Christians outnumbers the Jews. The jews being a very small minority except in the City of Jerusalem which was about 1/3 each, all living in peace and harmony.

Lance Kennedy wrote:But only Jewish moved in en masse after WWII displacing the native people.
No. The British blockaded the Mandate restricting Jewish immigration. It was only after the 1948 War and Victory by the Jews that the captured port city of Haifa was opened up to "THE RIGHT OF RETURN" of Jewish people to Israel that their numbers swelled. Its because of the 1948 War started by the Arabs that mostly the arabs left the area. That that chose to stay put were welcomed into the Jewish State. Here and there, (("everything is a mix of things")) the local Arabs were "encouraged" to leave, but that was not the action of Israel in most locals. I assume some areas were cleared as part of a Military Objective?...but I haven't heard/read that said as yet.

Lance Kennedy wrote:Certainly, Bobbo, nations form from theft and murder. If it were not so, there would be no Europeans living in America.
There would be no Europeans in Europe either. Certainly, you accept the Right of Neanderthals to a Homeland and their Right of Return? Whats that you say?==>there are no Neanderthals?? Well, there's one solution used successfully throughout History with Israel/Palestinians showing what happens when you don't recognize that fact.

Lance Kennedy wrote:The native peoples had their lands stolen on the backs of widespread murder.
The basic simple Historical fact is that it was the Arabs that killed Jews. Its the Jews who fought back.

Lance Kennedy wrote:But two wrongs do not make a right.
True, but a wrong and a right make a right.

Lance Kennedy wrote: For someone to suggest that a past crime makes a more recent crime OK is crap.
Yep, you should stop doing that.

Lance Kennedy wrote:Palestine is different in that no effort has been made to make things right.
Jebuss, THAT is stupid. The Head Up their Ass Stupid, Racists, Self Defeating, Self Delusional, Anti-Jewish, Anti-Israeli ARABS have rejected every peace plan negotiated over the years, including the Mandate that GAVE THEM A HOMELAND==>THAT THE JEWS AGREED TO. This mandate was the "international law" at the time....a result of the Arabs fighting for the Germans and losing WW1. You know: WAR has consequences.

Lance Kennedy wrote:Native Americans have their reservations and quite a lot of money paid to them.
The difference between Indian Reservations and PLO controlled land is but a quibble. What Money? The Native Indeans have been cheated by the USA at every opportunity......like natives and minorities everywhere across time.

Lance Kennedy wrote:Palestinians are still, after about 70 years, refugees in their own traditional lands.
Basically correct. Thats what happens when you refuse peace and lose war after war.

Lance Kennedy wrote: Netanyahu could help a lot, but refuses to.
Yes.....and America could help alot by giving all the Indian Land back, Land back to Mexico if the Indians didn't object.....etc. Yes....Netanyahu could give up the state of Israel and let it fall back to the Arabs.

Why would anyone do that?
Real Name: bobbo the existential pragmatic evangelical anti-theist and Class Warrior.
Asking: What is the most good for the most people?
Sample Issue: Should the Feds provide all babies with free diapers?

bobbo_the_Pragmatist
Has No Life
Posts: 14331
Joined: Wed Sep 09, 2015 9:39 am
Custom Title: bobbo da existential pragmatist

Re: Jerusalem embassy to be opened by 'religious bigot,' Romney says

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Fri May 18, 2018 3:08 pm

Late Edit: watching a Youtube on subject, it struck me that "a solution" to all this would have been when Israel took the West Bank from Jordan. They made a big mistake then that they have been constantly ambiguously making: recognizing the validity/virtue of the British Mandate. They should have stated that they won the land in the WAR, and kicked all non-Jews out: JUST LIKE EVERY OTHER COUNTRY HAS DONE.

They also took the Sinai..........but gave it back to Egypt in a Land for Peace agreement that was mostly adhered too as the USA gave military aide to Egypt on that contingency. That decision was debateable but land for peace occurs often in History. Why no LAND FOR PEACE or reparations to the Palestinians?===>BECAUSE THEY DEMAND LAND BACK WHILE STATING THEIR INTENT IS TO WIPE ISRAEL FROM THE MAP.

I can't tell who is being more stupid or destructive: the Palestinians for being so inartful...they should just lie, get the land, and plan their next big invasion...........or the Jews for not implementing what clearly needs to be done.....you know: what was done to them in living memory.

As stated elsewhere: Israel should announce that they will keep all land captured in any future wars and that Palestine two state solution will never be. Then....help the Palestinians excape into the rest of the Arab lands. Not a perfect solution....but the best that I can see. CONTRA: Israel has the humanitarian impulses that makes peaceful protest most likely to succeed. Now, if the PLO could only deal with their own reality???

This is the A, B, C's of having a homeland. You gotta fight for it....like everyone else.
Real Name: bobbo the existential pragmatic evangelical anti-theist and Class Warrior.
Asking: What is the most good for the most people?
Sample Issue: Should the Feds provide all babies with free diapers?

User avatar
Lance Kennedy
Has No Life
Posts: 11339
Joined: Tue Mar 29, 2005 10:20 pm
Custom Title: Super Skeptic
Location: Paradise, New Zealand

Re: Jerusalem embassy to be opened by 'religious bigot,' Romney says

Postby Lance Kennedy » Fri May 18, 2018 9:11 pm

Israel lost an opportunity when they stole land by military conquest, which is always wrong, and failed to use it to build a Palestinian homeland. In fact, they are still building Jewish settlements on the stolen land.

Whether there was ever a Muslim nation politically in Palestine is irrelevant. It was the home of a Mulsim people, and they did not sell their land, give it away, or in any way cede their property to the Jewish invaders. It was stolen off them. Sure, the Palestinians made a lot of mistakes, but that does not, in any way, excuse the Israeli state from a duty of care towards those they screwed over.

I am not, and never have, suggested that Israel needs to be eliminated. But the poor bastards who are still suffering 70 years after their land was stolen from them deserve some recompense. Logically, that would come from a Palestinian homeland being set up, and particularly on the land Israel stole by military conquest.

bobbo_the_Pragmatist
Has No Life
Posts: 14331
Joined: Wed Sep 09, 2015 9:39 am
Custom Title: bobbo da existential pragmatist

Re: Jerusalem embassy to be opened by 'religious bigot,' Romney says

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Fri May 18, 2018 9:27 pm

Give your house to the first Maori you come across.....and you will still have zero credibility/sense.
Real Name: bobbo the existential pragmatic evangelical anti-theist and Class Warrior.
Asking: What is the most good for the most people?
Sample Issue: Should the Feds provide all babies with free diapers?

User avatar
Lance Kennedy
Has No Life
Posts: 11339
Joined: Tue Mar 29, 2005 10:20 pm
Custom Title: Super Skeptic
Location: Paradise, New Zealand

Re: Jerusalem embassy to be opened by 'religious bigot,' Romney says

Postby Lance Kennedy » Fri May 18, 2018 10:37 pm

That statement, Bobbo, demonstrates the depth of your ignorance.

New Zealand has a government sponsored body called the Waitangi Tribunal, which is in negotiation with the various Maori tribes, deciding compensation for past wrongs. The government, following the decisions of the Tribunal, has already paid out billions of dollars in compensation.

bobbo_the_Pragmatist
Has No Life
Posts: 14331
Joined: Wed Sep 09, 2015 9:39 am
Custom Title: bobbo da existential pragmatist

Re: Jerusalem embassy to be opened by 'religious bigot,' Romney says

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Sat May 19, 2018 10:09 am

Lance, let me show you something that will blow your mind: "Thanks Lance, I did not know that. Changes what I think completely."

Interesting few minutes spent with google on the Waitangi Tribunal. Wiki says through 2008 only 952 Million New Zealand has been paid. Saw a reference to 1.2 billion elsewhere, don't know if New Zealand or $$. So....unique. I wonder how many other invaded and occupied lands have such commissions? ----Very Civilized.

On a very similar issue, Russian TV just had a 5 minute segment on the border troubles between Gaza and Israel. Seems for unstated motives, the Egyptians opened up their border with Gaza and allowed less restricted movement of Palestinians into Egypt. it appeared to be mostly for doctor appointments, ie: come in, spend your money...then go back to Gaza. The new King of Saudi was quoted as saying: "The Palestinians should shut up and accept peace."

Before reading your totally appropriate response, I had been thinking about Hawaii and how USA invaded and took it over. There is basically peace in Hawaii, don't know about any historical/cultural claims==>never heard of any. But as it may apply: what if Native Hawaiians or Maori were seeking NOT compensation, but the right of return to all their ancestral lands?

What do you think would be the outcome there Lance?
Real Name: bobbo the existential pragmatic evangelical anti-theist and Class Warrior.
Asking: What is the most good for the most people?
Sample Issue: Should the Feds provide all babies with free diapers?

bobbo_the_Pragmatist
Has No Life
Posts: 14331
Joined: Wed Sep 09, 2015 9:39 am
Custom Title: bobbo da existential pragmatist

Re: Jerusalem embassy to be opened by 'religious bigot,' Romney says

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Sat May 19, 2018 2:17 pm

On the Issue of Reparations, I googled:

"Common to all peace plans for the Middle East is Israel’s refusal to admit responsibility for the refugee problem or the displacement of the Palestinian population. .......Israel accepts the establishment of an international fund for resolving the resettling of the refugees in Arab host countries. It is prepared to contribute to such a fund, but only if the international community and institutions act as main contributors alongside Israel."

https://fanack.com/arab-palestinian-isr ... estinians/

I have a dim memory that at the same time, individual Jews are getting reparations, or compensation? (what would that difference be?) if they can prove the Nazi's took something from them.....most famously and recently the Painting of a woman in gold....quite nice actually. I don't know what that requires....I mean...family rounded up and sent to the concentration camps and you used to live at some address? If WARS were fair, seems like you should get something for that?

But, Israel: seems they really don't want to be outnumbered 3 to 1 in their own Homeland. History: always interesting when something unfair/unjust on its face has a weird justification about it? Its why I give Roman Polanski a break===even giving drugs to a minor.
Real Name: bobbo the existential pragmatic evangelical anti-theist and Class Warrior.
Asking: What is the most good for the most people?
Sample Issue: Should the Feds provide all babies with free diapers?

User avatar
Lance Kennedy
Has No Life
Posts: 11339
Joined: Tue Mar 29, 2005 10:20 pm
Custom Title: Super Skeptic
Location: Paradise, New Zealand

Re: Jerusalem embassy to be opened by 'religious bigot,' Romney says

Postby Lance Kennedy » Sat May 19, 2018 7:53 pm

The logical first move for Israelis to turn over the conquered territory to the Palestinians and retain the territory first given to them. But they are moving their own citizens into that land. The simple fact is that Israel, and Netanyahu in particular, has no interest in even recognising that Palestinians have any rights. Most of those living on the Gaza strip have no proper homes and own no land. They need a Palestinian homeland, but not even the first move is under way to deliver. So they live as homeless refugees, with their traditional homelands stolen off them.

bobbo_the_Pragmatist
Has No Life
Posts: 14331
Joined: Wed Sep 09, 2015 9:39 am
Custom Title: bobbo da existential pragmatist

Re: Jerusalem embassy to be opened by 'religious bigot,' Romney says

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Sat May 19, 2018 9:53 pm

You would turn over land to your sworn enemy? ................ you say so........but...........

You have zero ability to deal with issues you don't like. Perfect cannon fodder.
Real Name: bobbo the existential pragmatic evangelical anti-theist and Class Warrior.
Asking: What is the most good for the most people?
Sample Issue: Should the Feds provide all babies with free diapers?

User avatar
Lance Kennedy
Has No Life
Posts: 11339
Joined: Tue Mar 29, 2005 10:20 pm
Custom Title: Super Skeptic
Location: Paradise, New Zealand

Re: Jerusalem embassy to be opened by 'religious bigot,' Romney says

Postby Lance Kennedy » Sun May 20, 2018 1:05 am

Bobbo

The best way to deal with your sworn enemy is to make him your friend. Or at least remove some of the grounds for hostility.

bobbo_the_Pragmatist
Has No Life
Posts: 14331
Joined: Wed Sep 09, 2015 9:39 am
Custom Title: bobbo da existential pragmatist

Re: Jerusalem embassy to be opened by 'religious bigot,' Romney says

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Sun May 20, 2018 2:58 am

You would turn over land to your sworn enemy? ................ you say so........but...........

You have zero ability to deal with issues you don't like. Perfect cannon fodder.
Real Name: bobbo the existential pragmatic evangelical anti-theist and Class Warrior.
Asking: What is the most good for the most people?
Sample Issue: Should the Feds provide all babies with free diapers?


Return to “Belief, Nonbelief, and Philosophy”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Trendiction [Bot] and 0 guests