Birds are dinosaurs

Creationism, Intelligent Design, and Evolution.
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Lance Kennedy
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Birds are dinosaurs

Postby Lance Kennedy » Fri May 11, 2018 8:29 pm

Traditionally, living reptiles are divided into four orders.
Crocodilian. Crocodiles, alligators and caimen.
Testudines. Turtles and tortoises.
Squamata. Snakes, lizards, and iguana.
Sphenodones. The tuatara.

But it has become clear in recent years that birds are the closest living relatives to dinosaurs and should probably be a fifth order of reptiles, instead of a separate class of vertebrates, and they have traditionally been seen. In fact, the closest relatives of birds are the fierce dinosaur hunters like Tyrannosaurus and Velociraptor.

Next time you see a sparrow hopping, re-imagine it as a small version of Tyrannosaurus rex.

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Re: Birds are dinosaurs

Postby ElectricMonk » Fri May 11, 2018 8:33 pm

Sorry, but this isn't news.
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Re: Birds are dinosaurs

Postby scrmbldggs » Fri May 11, 2018 8:43 pm

Just ask the geese...
.

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Re: Birds are dinosaurs

Postby OlegTheBatty » Fri May 11, 2018 9:08 pm

Saying that birds are related to dinosaurs is like saying that apes are related to primates.

The avialae are the only surviving line of coelurosaurian theropods. The rest died out at the K-T boundary, along with a lot of other things, including most mammals. The other line of birdlike dinos, the enantiornitheans, (that little fledgling preserved in amber was one), died out around the same time, were in decline for a long time, and the most recent fossil is from 67 million years ago, so they may not have made it to the K-T.
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Re: Birds are dinosaurs

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Fri May 11, 2018 9:31 pm

Lance must be going thru his posting history and looking for dead horses. Where the branches break to form species is less debateable than when trunks separate to form Classes===========but its all definitional. Nothing changes by the label.
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Re: Birds are dinosaurs

Postby Lance Kennedy » Fri May 11, 2018 10:16 pm

This resulted from a discussion I had with a local friend. I did a little background reading and thought it was an interesting subject. If you disagree, just ignore the thread.

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Re: Birds are dinosaurs

Postby Cadmusteeth » Fri May 11, 2018 10:55 pm

Sounds good to me.

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Re: Birds are dinosaurs

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Sat May 12, 2018 3:20 am

Lance Kennedy wrote:This resulted from a discussion I had with a local friend. I did a little background reading and thought it was an interesting subject. If you disagree, just ignore the thread.

Lance must be ignoring your posting history to avoid the dead horses. Where the branches break to form species is less debateable than when trunks separate to form Classes===========but its all definitional. Nothing changes by the label.
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Re: Birds are dinosaurs

Postby Gord » Sat May 12, 2018 6:26 am

There are a couple of researchers, like Alan Feduccia and John Ruben, who still think modern birds descended directly from archosaurs rather than being descended from theropod dinosaurs. However, the scientific consensus remains that birds are, indeed, descended from theropod dinosaurs.

Here's a link to a paper by Alan Feduccia, if you're interested: https://www.researchgate.net/publicatio ... urian_bird

Here's a book review of John Ruben's latest book (I think), Avian Evolution: The Fossil Record of Birds and Its Paleobiological Significance: http://americanornithologypubs.org/doi/ ... =coop-site

And here's an article by Ruben and Feduccia from 1997: https://www.researchgate.net/publicatio ... n_of_Birds
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Re: Birds are dinosaurs

Postby Gord » Sat May 12, 2018 6:32 am

...oh, and here's a link to a wikipedia section that talks about it a bit more: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scansorio ... pretations

That adds two more names to the list, Stephen Czerkas and Chongxi Yuan. Also, here's a pdf of their paper: http://dinosaur-museum.org/featheredino ... ptoran.pdf
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Re: Birds are dinosaurs

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Sat May 12, 2018 6:43 am

Just a side issue.......I've seen several pop culture articles on the notion that "all the information" is in the genes and this is "proven" by watching animals develop in utero. Upshot is: with certain genes turned on and off at different stages....it should be dead simple to breed a dinosaur chicken..... From time to time "birth defects" reveal this when chickens are born with tails or with teeth.

I'm sure someone would like a flock of dinosaur chickens?

Also....read the how and why chickens lay eggs every day. Fascinating observation and control of nature.
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