bobbo Brews BEER, and the Hobby of being CHEAP.

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bobbo Brews BEER, and the Hobby of being CHEAP.

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Sat Feb 10, 2018 1:31 am

EDIT: AKA: add your how to live cheap here.....or start your own thread.

////////////////////

Not really.......but I could not resist the alliteration. Beer looks "hard" to do to me....so why bother when HCider is so easy and fool/bobbo proof? Basically (perhaps) I just really don't like the idea of "bottling." Don't know why....I've saved about 200 beer bottles and caps....don't want to sanitize them???? Ha, ha............... And unlike this cider thing....I have the feeling the beer operation does need to be cleaner than I think the HCider thing actually needs to be....for one thing....the storage times are longer...........

I've been spreading my effort/questions to make Hard Cider across various threads hoping to catch Poodles eye/interest as he homebrews..........and it looks like I will be too. the info he has provided has been very valuable, but I don't want to infringe on his time/kindness/patience more than I already have. Thanks again Poodle. I've casually read on the subject but made the jump a year ago when i came into a load of free bananas...and again a month ago when I came into free apples. There are several excellent websites dedicated to the subject with total experts, but they tend to deign to respond saying "Go read the Stickies" which is fair enough but the stickies rarely answer the "exact" questions I have come up with. Plus.........too many experts/aficionados don't have an affinity for doing things as cheap as possible. This is fun to note: they spend $$$$ and time to keep things clean and sanitary...... and they use a siphon starter to transfer from primary to secondary fermentation...............BUT........ when it comes to bottling, they start a suction hose with their mouth. Lots of other examples..........always cracks me up. as is so often....if the process was that precarious.......our great grand dads would have killed themselves off before the first brew was discovered. ((and maybe a few did??????))

What makes my hobby somewhat unique is my desire to get to bottom line basics and to do things as cheap and direct as possible. I have a general life style trying to live as cheap as possible so that I don't have to get a job. Ha, ha.......simple as that. I've always enjoyed making good deals/decisions....its even more fun as a hobby.

the reason I'm posting now is I was researching how to vacuum can using Mason Jars because I'm tired of salads and cheese going bad before I can eat them up. My appetite just isn't what it used to be and I haven't learned how to shop/cook/and store for ONE. ((Hobby Point No 1: Vacuum Sealing: use a Ziplock, a straw, and suck the air out yourself. Total Investment: one stolen straw from McDonno's and bags that cost 2 cents.........................and it works.))...and I felt like a Beer after all this effort. But.........no beer is chilled, so what to do? Again....I dipped into the first fermentation stage of my HCider and strained 2 Cups thru cheesecloth to get close to a liquid rather than the mud pie that is slowly bubbling away.

I AM SHOCKED: HCider is so good........I don't see why to bottle it. Drink it as it matures. I've added sugar to the batch to boost Proof and the mash is very evenly balanced.......not sweet, tart, or sour. Actually tastes like a very smooth White Zinfandel (Yes, the cool aide of folks who don't like wine.) Its not wine..... its not beer..... its not apple cider. But, its good stuff. ((My current recipe is lots of various apples, canned apple and cranberry sauce, tomato paste, raisins, applesauce...some ground up cookies that were too sweet for me to eat, and sugar). Looks like in the past month I've made about 10 gallons of HCider for a total investment of 70 cents for wine yeast.....oops and about $1.50 for raw sugar)). Kinda hard to beat????? I can't read the alcohol level as the hydrometer will stay where ever it is placed in the mash...but it "feels like" normal wine...so I'm guessing close to 12%. My next apple mash will be thin sliced apples rather than mashed ones to see if that results in a clear mash that will take to a hydrometer. I've used up most of my applesauce and cranberry sauce canned fruit, so the place is even getting cleaned up a bit..............what a great hobby.

So....going to continue making HCider and banana wine as I have when the raw materials are made available. Going to try a batch of sugar wine "flavored" with apples for an investment of maybe $10 tops for 7 gallons. And depending on how that tastes, go ahead an try to finish my pot still and distill the mash for alcohol for mixed drinks, diy Kahlua which I do like, and other liqueurs. If it "works"....I could see spending the money for raw materials when and if needed....I mean the cost savings are there....so why not.

My most radical idea for the distilling: I don't like the IDEA of wasting water to cool...even though I think I get a bulk rate single fee where I am, I should check?.........and I REALLY don't like the idea of buying or even making Ice to cool the worm water........so, I've hit on the idea of an air cooled worm pipe arrangement. One time investment for a radiator house heating baseboard run of copper with fins about 10 Feet long........supposed to cool the whole shebang. also looking at maybe a small car type radiator to cool the condensation water. I kinda favor that as it is more compact and intervenable......if its not working, I could just add cold water to the bucket. As always: pros and cons to all options.....but I want it to be...............pragmatic. aka: work.

I'm actually posting to encourage anyone who passes by here to google the subject..... lots of resources and youtubes on the subject, and if any interest at all: give it a go. After learning just a bit....its fun, and you save money. How could a hobby be any better?

Actually....the next up new chapter is making sake. I'd rather ferment the rice I get than keep eating it with every meal. ...............I like rice, but prefer barley.
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Re: bobbo Brews BEER, and the Hobby of being CHEAP.

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Sat Feb 10, 2018 4:35 pm

I made another two cups of sugar water and added a cup of the mash to it to see if the yeast would be invigorated to reproduce. I want a second yeast batch for the sugar wine I plan to do in about two weeks after the current batch No3 is used up.

My first effort showed a dead/inactive yeast starter after two days of observation...so I pitched it back into the vat. Poodle informed me that quite likely the introduction of oxygen into the transferred mash could have killed or slowed down the yeast. so, this time I transferred the one cup of mash/yeast combo as carefully as I could with minimal disturbance/introduction of air/oxygen. It worked. The yeast is producing bubbles 12 hours later. KNOWLEDGE: gained. Note: there are NO controls and lots of variables at every step.......so, this is just my best uninformed guess.

Also of note: the HCider is higher alcohol using the wine yeast. When I decide to make a Friday Night of it, I drink 4-5-6 beers, fall asleep, and wake up ready to go. Last night with the HCider...I had 3 glasses, passed out, and woke up not with a hangover but quite thick. animal testing has shown the alcohol level to approach 12%. RIGHT NOW...I prefer the beer experience....but drinking Heineken, that is about $6. Drinking the HCider is about 10 cents. A real quandary for a cheap hobbyist like myself. Again just right now....I prefer the HCider when it was back at the beer level of 3% alcohol using standard bread yeast. Interesting to me how the taste is so directly affected by how much sugar and how much water is added to the mash....and how much alcohol is created. Every variable interacting with the others. Too many variables, and too much drinking required, to track this all to firm conclusions................but, its the PROCESS that counts...... making this a fine hobby.

I think what I'll do now is strain the mash to make a dozen bottles (using screw top Mikes Wide Mouth Beer bottles) and cut it with fresh apple juice. This should cut the % and add a bit of sweetness and a nice level of carbonation...all to be drank in 1-2 weeks thereby not taking up too much space which I don't have.

I'm looking forward to a few free bushels of apples this coming Presidents Holiday. Just in time to use my saved Yeast. If it doesn't activate with Batch No4...I've got my store bought Wine Yeast ready to use.
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Re: bobbo Brews BEER, and the Hobby of being CHEAP.

Postby Poodle » Sat Feb 10, 2018 7:15 pm

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:... Poodle informed me that quite likely the introduction of oxygen into the transferred mash could have killed or slowed down the yeast. so, this time I transferred the one cup of mash/yeast combo as carefully as I could with minimal disturbance/introduction of air/oxygen. It worked ...

No, no, no. Poodle informed you of the aerobic and anaerobic phases of yeast's existence. With free oxygen around, yeast throws a wild sex party. The cells divide. It multiplies (you may think this sort of boring, but it's orgasmic for a single-celled fungus). No alcohol is made in the pursuit of these despicable acts. You actually want this to happen as no one ever introduces enough yeast to perform a complete fermentation all by itself. But in the making of all the little yeastbabies, the oxygen is consumed and, when it has gone, all the yeast (even the yeastbabies) start to eat sugar and then excrete identical weights of both alcohol and carbon dioxide. You get pretty bubbles and, eventually, you get pissed as a rat.

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Re: bobbo Brews BEER, and the Hobby of being CHEAP.

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Sat Feb 10, 2018 8:33 pm

well............you know.............. I far prefer the security of firm beliefs that are wrong. Now, I'm just confused. Re Try No 1, I did on purpose vigorously stir the mash to introduce oxygen and for two days the sugar water sat totally inert. Did I not give it enough time?.................whereas fresh from the package it all goes bubbly in about 10 minutes. What gives????

then, on Try No 2, misunderstanding your import, I stirred not at all keeping everything as anaerobic as possible and the sugar water just has a very slow bubbling on par with the fermentation bucket from which it came.

Your description of oxygen = cell division with no % makes totally good sense to me.....so "No Bubbles" because it was busy reproducing?........which would be a good thing as that is what I wanted...lots of yeast to pitch into the next batch of apples. So...what is the bubbling all about when you first activate the packaged yeast? All I can remember is that the yeast is "waking up"....which means absolutely nothing.

Hmmmmm....my sugar Try No2 is mostly water and sugar...and indeed the hydrometer does float but its only showing a SG of 1.02 ...ha, ha....maybe not enough sugar to support cell division??? So........... (THIS IS FUN!!!!) ...... I added more sugar to my Try No 2 and now the SG is up to 1.11. I'm learning about sugar wine/recipes..... takes more sugar than I thought it would. Aren't actual MEASUREMENTS ..great?

So...my Try No2 yeast growing culture looks totally inert now. Just going to put it aside for a few days, if thats what it takes. No fizzle like on first activation....but eventually yeast should start producing bubbles again????

My Hobby Point No 2: If the timing is right.....do a rolling fermentation....just adding apples, water, sugar to the mash as you draw off from your fermenting bucket. No need then to reclean the bucket, use more yeast and so forth. The dead yeast from the continuous fermentation is supposed to be the "nutrients" for happy yeasties. I did add a shot of wheat grass juice. Lots of proteins....if its good for me, should be good for them, but who knows?

Something I think the experts may not be appreciating, or I am playing Russian Roulette, the process of fermentation is very robust itself for keeping bad yeast/bacteria etc from forming. HCider appears to be the easiest brew there is: no cooking except to activate the first cup of yeast. With bananas you have to (should?) cook the bananas to convert their starch to sugar....no need for that with apples. With the sake... a simple cook to soften but then mold does the starch conversion which I read will work with other grains as well. Hmmmm....besides free apples, bananas, and rice...I also have access to free artisianal bread. I wonder if I can make moldy bread wine? I'll think on it.

Well....with Try No2 being clear enough to float a hydrometer....think I'll go slice up an apple and see if the yeast will break that down over time...or if a "mash" really is needed. Lots of fun things to do.

Thanks Poodle............keep them coming as your charitable impulse prevails.
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Re: bobbo Brews BEER, and the Hobby of being CHEAP.

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Sun Feb 11, 2018 4:49 pm

My Hobby Point No 3: Its week 3 now and my recharged standard "Do Not Recharge" Duracell batteries are still going strong in my Comcast Remote. I was about to return these used batteries to a drop off store (Lowes) but I googled instead for a specialized "intelligent" recharger to bring these back to life. Instead I found two posts that claimed all you had to do was put a standard recharger on a timer so the charging would cycle on and off so as to not overheat the batteries and cause them to explode. So....I did the same manually, except the batteries never got warm so I just let them charge for 8 hours.

Its working.

Whats a poor boy to do when the physics/chemistry says its impossible............ but it works.???????? Defective/mislabeled batteries would be one answer. Another would be a defective recharger as it doesn't do so well with the actual rather new rechargeable batteries THAT DON'T KEEP THEIR CHARGE. Ain't reality........ a marvel?
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Re: bobbo Brews BEER, and the Hobby of being CHEAP.

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Sun Feb 11, 2018 5:02 pm

I'm not getting what happens when I decant a half gallon of mash and strain it thru some cheesecloth for "early" consumption. Its bubbling in the bucket, but when decanted and strained, it goes totally dormant. No more bubbles. This is true when decanted into a sugar water mixture and stirred up as well. I thought the additional sugar/remaining sugar would have kept the alcohol production continuing...so no need to even refrigerate the liquid before I drink it. I understand why it should go dormant for a time when it gets a charge of oxygen, but the % production should continue after a time? That doesn't appear to be happening but I'm leaving Try No 2 in the corner until it does..... we'll see.

My Hobby Point No 4: Save your fat and grease. Its good stuff....why throw it out? Lots of misinformation "floating around" about fat/oil. I save lard, suet, schmaltz, and bacon fat to supplement my store bought Olive Oil that I use for everything. The experts poo-poo using Olive Oil as it "overpowers" the meal. I don't find that at all, so....its supposed to be healthier, so I use it for almost everything. Butter for flavor when desired as this morning on my croissant with espresso. Last night I toasted some garlic bread and some excess garlic butter was expressed onto the frying pan I use to toast such things and this morning there was a "smear" of congealed garlic butter. What to do??? So...I scraped it up with my spatula and rather than throw it in the trash, I scrapped it onto my butter dish. And violet: an hour later I put it on my croissant. 2 cents saved?....................but the feeling of virtue is worth another 2 cents. Doubling your savings is always fun.
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Re: bobbo Brews BEER, and the Hobby of being CHEAP.

Postby Poodle » Sun Feb 11, 2018 5:34 pm

Straining it through cheesecloth is a good way of dissolving air in a liquid, bobbo. Oxygen, you know.

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Re: bobbo Brews BEER, and the Hobby of being CHEAP.

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Sun Feb 11, 2018 5:50 pm

Yes Poodle....I agree which is why I "accept" the immediate lack of activity but my mystery is why there is no activity after a few days? The decanted pure mash that I drink sat on my counter for a few days. Ok...maybe the O2 put the yeasties into reproduction mode and there was not enough sugar to start up "observable" % production and I accept that too. But the same thing is happening in my sugar water with a SG of 1.11. Its been 24 hours now....no bubbles at all. I'll keep waiting.......but do we have a Rechargeable Battery Situation here? IMPOSSIBLE!!! Even a single live yeast cell "should" produce % after some time?........and that is what this thread is all about. I do assume the sugar water will start perking at some point.............but I also assumed the Battery would fail rather quickly.

PRAGMATISM. Destroyer of dreams, creator of dreams. Saw Wonder Woman last night. I hate magic.

///////////////////////// EDIT: evidently.....all I have to do is wait long enough. Hmmm.....a choice between time vs $$$$$,.... think I'll just wait........and definitely just run continuous batches with a quart or so of dregs in the fridge inbetween batches. https://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtop ... 39&t=65807
Last edited by bobbo_the_Pragmatist on Sun Feb 11, 2018 8:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: bobbo Brews BEER, and the Hobby of being CHEAP.

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Sun Feb 11, 2018 6:41 pm

HOLY CRAP. Yes===>you can make alcohol from old bread.......it is after all just a form of grain and turns out once converted to be 60% sugar. https://homedistiller.org/grain/wash-grain2/bread

I live in a double wide trailer on the edge of a creek on a county maintained park. Its rural and suburban at the same time and very cheap....especially compared to the standard home I moved from where my lifestyle was more an unpaid handyman....not "hobbies" at all. Trailer Parks have the image of being filled with trailer trash....and its true. "Manufactured Homes" are like any other neighborhood....they run the gamut. My park has a mix giving us a variety of people. One person is a church official of some sort and he gathers food from participating vendors (Trader Joes, Safeway, Penara Bread) to distribute to hungry poor people but on national holidays the collected food cannot be stored or distributed, so he brings that food to this Park and gives it away. That is how I got the bananas and apples...so many that people in the park had their fill. Well...something we get every Saturday is a delivery of one day to expiration artisan bread. aka: all the bread I want. Need I say more????

Now, My cheap issue: I could malt my own barley, or much easier buy some amalyse....but I'm thinking if I have it already, why not use the sake mold? A little bit more confirming research is needed.........and I don't think moldy bread wine would fit on my palate....even with a few apples added........so this project will come a bit later if I finally do some actual distilling which was my first goal in this hobby....................

xxxxxxxxx Google is so powerful these days: Aspergillus oryzae - Wikipedia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aspergillus_oryzae

Aspergillus oryzae, known in English as koji (Japanese: 麹 Hepburn: kōji), is a filamentous fungus (a mold) used in Chinese and other East Asian cuisines to ferment soybeans for making soy sauce and fermented bean paste, and also to saccharify rice, other grains, and potatoes in the making of alcoholic beverages such as ...

I didn't know the same fungus that makes sake also made soy and other often eaten foods. Kinda takes the uncertainty factor out of its use?

EDIT: More google on point. Going to make sake and bread wine using the amylase product from amazon. The one pound product $13 is about the same cost as the Koji Rice product and is just much easier to use. I will pay $$$ for an easier more manageable less take up space project. The Q&A on Amazon for amylase and koji are very informative.
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Re: bobbo Brews BEER, and the Hobby of being CHEAP.

Postby Nikki Nyx » Sun Feb 11, 2018 9:22 pm

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:EDIT: AKA: add your how to live cheap here.....or start your own thread.
I love this idea!

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:the reason I'm posting now is I was researching how to vacuum can using Mason Jars because I'm tired of salads and cheese going bad before I can eat them up.
While the initial investment of my Food Saver vacuum sealer was not cheap, the attachment that allows Mason jars to be vacuum sealed was only $7.
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Re: bobbo Brews BEER, and the Hobby of being CHEAP.

Postby Nikki Nyx » Sun Feb 11, 2018 9:24 pm

Poodle wrote:...and, eventually, you get pissed as a rat.
Wait...I thought the term was "pissed as a newt."
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Re: bobbo Brews BEER, and the Hobby of being CHEAP.

Postby Nikki Nyx » Sun Feb 11, 2018 9:30 pm

My daughter purchased a fairly inexpensive tree-tapping kit, and food grade plastic buckets with lids, and plans to tap the sugar maples in our yard. She'll build a small fire pit to boil down the sap because, apparently, doing it on the kitchen range is a bad idea for several reasons (sticky all over everything is sufficient reason for me). We'll have homemade maple syrup at about $10 per gallon; currently, it's about $20 per quart when purchased.

She and I are both enthralled with the project, and I love the fact that she looks for cheaper methods to make things as an alternative to purchasing an expensive item.
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Re: bobbo Brews BEER, and the Hobby of being CHEAP.

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Sun Feb 11, 2018 9:50 pm

Gee.........I'm very envious. Wish my area had sugar maples.......but we don't. I would immediately tap that tree. Not close at all...next door neighbor had a Bay Laurel Tree. So much nicer to pluck a few leaves rather than pay $$$ for less quality in the supermarket. I found that tree only after I had bought a bay laurel as a house plant. I kept it alive for 2 years before losing it........but TRUE FACT: can go to a nursery and buy a small bay laurel cheaper than you can buy the dried out leaves in the grocery store. SAVE $$$$

Consider building any kind of solar still. No need to mess with wood, fire, smoke. I had a good one made out of the Fresnel lens from an old tv...but it was very old and brittle and fell apart.

I make my own flavored sugar syrups. Very much like the taste of caramelized sugar....as deep as I wish, and by adding more water, I can make it less sweet which I like and less caloric. I keep maple, black berry, and honey flavors in my fridge. Real Maple Syrup: from my few samples from the Store: nice, but not worth the money. Depending on how much real stuff you collect.......you might want to extend it by adding that simple sugar syrup?

EDIT:........................Another thing to consider: learn to control the sticky mess whatever is actually the case....and get a small hot plate to set up in your living room. In the winter time, you can cook/smell/enjoy your hobby while watching tv. The cost of the cookdown is "free" as you need the heat anyway? If you feel the need....set it up inside a plastic lined cardboard flat to catch any mess/overflow. "Outside"...is very dirty....best to avoid as much as possible.
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Re: bobbo Brews BEER, and the Hobby of being CHEAP.

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Sun Feb 11, 2018 10:09 pm

Nikki Nyx wrote:Food Saver vacuum sealer[/url] was not cheap, the attachment that allows Mason jars to be vacuum sealed was only $7.
Image


Yep, I was drawn to that jar sealer more than the bag vacuum....but I think I would prefer using the Vac Jar technique where you put your desired jar into a larger container and put a vacuum on that. The smaller jar vacuum seals and you get to use original purchased jars. Its a popular option on the YouTube Prepper websites. Lot's of cheap living going on in those places........if you skip the ammunition part...............
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Re: bobbo Brews BEER, and the Hobby of being CHEAP.

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Sun Feb 11, 2018 10:20 pm

Nikki Nyx wrote:My daughter purchased a fairly inexpensive tree-tapping kit, and food grade plastic buckets with lids, and plans to tap the sugar maples in our yard.
I've never looked at the subject, but my gut tells me that two nails and a wood wedge would open the sap viens and old milk jugs could catch it. You can find nails on the road, and milk cartons in the trash. Total Cost: Zero.

But spending money on a hobby does have its psychic rewards.

and speaking of that old cheap goodwill hotplate: one good investment for MANY activities is a good low temp induction hot plate. Never less than 1800 Watts. I'm looking at simple Ming right now...it has everything I think is the best. From 100 Degrees in 5 Degree increments. Good for yogurt, deep frying, and maple syrup?........oh.......and Sous Vide as well. I have two inductions units right now........but this will be my next "big" purchase:

https://www.hsn.com/products/simply-min ... sted=false

$80.....was for sale for $65 just last week....so, I'll wait. Amazon is $30 more............pays to shop around.
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Re: bobbo Brews BEER, and the Hobby of being CHEAP.

Postby Poodle » Sun Feb 11, 2018 11:13 pm

Nikki Nyx wrote:
Poodle wrote:...and, eventually, you get pissed as a rat.
Wait...I thought the term was "pissed as a newt."

Yes. For pissedness purposes, newts and rats are identical.

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Re: bobbo Brews BEER, and the Hobby of being CHEAP.

Postby Nikki Nyx » Tue Feb 13, 2018 2:48 am

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:
Nikki Nyx wrote:My daughter purchased a fairly inexpensive tree-tapping kit, and food grade plastic buckets with lids, and plans to tap the sugar maples in our yard.
I've never looked at the subject, but my gut tells me that two nails and a wood wedge would open the sap viens and old milk jugs could catch it. You can find nails on the road, and milk cartons in the trash. Total Cost: Zero.
Every part of the kit is infinitely reusable, so I'm ok with the modest cost.

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:and speaking of that old cheap goodwill hotplate: one good investment for MANY activities is a good low temp induction hot plate. Never less than 1800 Watts. I'm looking at simple Ming right now...it has everything I think is the best. From 100 Degrees in 5 Degree increments. Good for yogurt, deep frying, and maple syrup?........oh.......and Sous Vide as well. I have two inductions units right now........but this will be my next "big" purchase:

https://www.hsn.com/products/simply-min ... sted=false

$80.....was for sale for $65 just last week....so, I'll wait. Amazon is $30 more............pays to shop around.
I noticed that the low reviews were excoriating, including claims that it fails to maintain temperature, defective units multiple times, and extreme amounts of heat being transferred to the cookware. Buyer beware. I'll stick with my gas range, which I paid $350 for 15 years ago, and it's still going strong. *knocks on wood*
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Re: bobbo Brews BEER, and the Hobby of being CHEAP.

Postby Nikki Nyx » Tue Feb 13, 2018 2:53 am

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:Gee.........I'm very envious. Wish my area had sugar maples.......but we don't. I would immediately tap that tree.
Technically, you can tap any type of maple. Or even a birch tree, although you don't get as much syrup since the ratio of sap to syrup is nearly double the 40-to-1 ratio of a maple.

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:Not close at all...next door neighbor had a Bay Laurel Tree. So much nicer to pluck a few leaves rather than pay $$$ for less quality in the supermarket. I found that tree only after I had bought a bay laurel as a house plant. I kept it alive for 2 years before losing it........but TRUE FACT: can go to a nursery and buy a small bay laurel cheaper than you can buy the dried out leaves in the grocery store. SAVE $$$$
I prefer fresh herbs to dried in any case, although I have both on hand.

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:I make my own flavored sugar syrups. Very much like the taste of caramelized sugar....as deep as I wish, and by adding more water, I can make it less sweet which I like and less caloric. I keep maple, black berry, and honey flavors in my fridge. Real Maple Syrup: from my few samples from the Store: nice, but not worth the money. Depending on how much real stuff you collect.......you might want to extend it by adding that simple sugar syrup?
According to the experts, the average sugar maple will yield up to 2 gallons a day in ideal conditions. And it takes 10 gallons to make a quart of maple syrup.

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:EDIT:........................Another thing to consider: learn to control the sticky mess whatever is actually the case....and get a small hot plate to set up in your living room. In the winter time, you can cook/smell/enjoy your hobby while watching tv. The cost of the cookdown is "free" as you need the heat anyway? If you feel the need....set it up inside a plastic lined cardboard flat to catch any mess/overflow. "Outside"...is very dirty....best to avoid as much as possible.
That is a concern, given the cooking time required. Still, the fumes that rise from the boiling sap not only coat everything in sticky, it's also flammable. I'm not too worried, since the sap will be boiled, then strained before jarring.
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Re: bobbo Brews BEER, and the Hobby of being CHEAP.

Postby Matthew Ellard » Tue Feb 13, 2018 3:34 am

Poodle wrote:Yes. For pissedness purposes, newts and rats are identical.


I had to find out what this meant, so I looked it up.

"As pissed as a newt"
"In Nelson's time Royal Navy junior ensign's were known as "newts." Being so young it didn't take much rum to become inebriated. Hence the expression "pissed as a newt."
https://www.urbandictionary.com/define. ... 20a%20newt

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Re: bobbo Brews BEER, and the Hobby of being CHEAP.

Postby Poodle » Tue Feb 13, 2018 8:20 am

I didn't know that. And despite often wondering about it, I'd never looked it up :oops: .

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Re: bobbo Brews BEER, and the Hobby of being CHEAP.

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Tue Feb 13, 2018 4:54 pm

I found newt interesting as well as on its own, it makes no sense at all. RATS even does make sense....licking up some broken cask or such...but Newts? No sense at all. Related...saw a youtube on the History of Rum and it was called Nelsons Blood. Didn't catch why and of course that until 1970's English seamen where given a ration of rum. Only safe thing to drink?.............all from the slave/sugar cane triangle that England was so involved in. "History" in your cup.
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Re: bobbo Brews BEER, and the Hobby of being CHEAP.

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Tue Feb 13, 2018 5:15 pm

Nikki Nyx wrote:
bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:....... The cost of the cookdown is "free" as you need the heat anyway? If you feel the need....set it up inside a plastic lined cardboard flat to catch any mess/overflow. "Outside"...is very dirty....best to avoid as much as possible.
That is a concern, given the cooking time required. Still, the fumes that rise from the boiling sap not only coat everything in sticky, it's also flammable. I'm not too worried, since the sap will be boiled, then strained before jarring.


this raises many various related issues of interest to me. I have long been an advocate/desirous of building highly insulated homes to the point of ZERO air exchange requiring actual heat/air exchangers to keep the inside air fresh enough for comfort. EG: one simple quick home is an inflated balloon the inside of which is shot with foam 8 inches thick that hardens enough to support an outside shell of concrete. Such a structure is cheap, quick, and easy to build and virtually "proof" against "everything." Some dude did a calculation and showed how many pet rabbits inside the structure would be needed to heat it in winter time...around 18 IIRC...all dependent on where you lived. A large family of course could heat the structure on their own. A decade back when most of my large electronics where analogue, there were transition months each spring and fall where the tv's and computers were satisfactorily heating my living and dining rooms.....and of course overheating the place in summer time. ---skipping 10 other issues--- and so...what "is" boiled/steamed off from ovens and stove cookings? Here in Sacramento...its legal to vent electric stoves into the house, while gas ovens must be vented to the outside. In my goal to live cheap, find double uses for anything used at all (latest GREAT find on Youtube: use a mop bucket with press to compress apple mash for its juice==a great mult-task for that item) and the simplest most direct way to do things: I designed a switchable vent system so that my electric kitchen could vent its heat into the house in the winter time, but out of the house in the summer time. My concern in Winter was "what was in that vented gas other than the heat?" This comes to mind whenever you observe/clean the standard mesh vent over the stove in the range hood: full of grease from the vapors of cooked food. I'm concerned: if that same gas is vented into my living area...won't over time everything get covered in grease? How effective would a few grease meshes be then in removing this contaminent from the air? Is an air to air heat exchanger cost effective to grab that heat while exhausting the waste products?

All to the point: what is in the boil off if you make maple syrup in your living room? I would have thought "mostly" just water was driven out of the solution? After all....thats why maple syrup is sweet? So as usual, no bright line. I can assume some things sticky will evaporated to condense on your lazy boy...but how much INDEED if any? In the end, for me, its about having fun. Its fun to save money, its fun to spend some along with time to NOT have your living area coated in sugar. Its fun to research these issues, its fun to weigh the pros and cons, its fun to make a decision based on your own values.

So Nikki: have fun.
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Re: bobbo Brews BEER, and the Hobby of being CHEAP.

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Tue Feb 13, 2018 5:48 pm

Nice review of diy maple syrup: he had no sticky. ymmv. I like his conclusion because he says use both outside and inside. Always the best answer.

http://ouroneacrefarm.com/make-maple-sy ... g-canning/
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Re: bobbo Brews BEER, and the Hobby of being CHEAP.

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Tue Feb 13, 2018 8:21 pm

To Vent, or Not to Vent: the MOST INFORMATIVE AND third funniest video I have ever seen. It is 50 minutes long but most of the jokes are at the beginning. Lots of SCIENCE in building a structure. I've always been confused by vapor and condensation issues and how to prevent the damage.

Of note re ice dams: Flat out....I don't see why roofs are not all metal. They can be quite attractive. they don't burn or rot. Why combine with shingles?

Off topic to this video: I was quite enthused with "double roof" ideas. Lots of practicality to them as they are cheap to build. The issue is mostly one of esthetics....but done right and in the right temperate area....they can actually allow for roof top living areas with great success. Seem almost mandatory if you start with 4-5 shipping containers.

BUILDING MY OWN DESIGNED HOUSE. given how often I moved.....a pleasure/challenge/frustration/unending law suit I will not have the pleasure of. RATS. My heat sink summer/winter swimming pool, the swamp cooled green house/whole house cooling system, whole house air purification/vacuum system, 4 story fireman poles.......all sorts of science for me to get wrong. It would have been fun.

The video guy is right near the end when he says studying failures is most productive. Impossible Engineering has about 25 or show episodes on Engineering Disasters. I can watch them endlessly. A point of the video: choose a less theoretically sound approach RECOGNIZING the building trades and inspection services do not perform as contemplated/required. Lots of truth in that.......as in economics..... people are just contrary actors.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ld8pzIu45F8
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Re: bobbo Brews BEER, and the Hobby of being CHEAP.

Postby Nikki Nyx » Tue Feb 13, 2018 9:46 pm

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:
Nikki Nyx wrote:
bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:....... The cost of the cookdown is "free" as you need the heat anyway? If you feel the need....set it up inside a plastic lined cardboard flat to catch any mess/overflow. "Outside"...is very dirty....best to avoid as much as possible.
That is a concern, given the cooking time required. Still, the fumes that rise from the boiling sap not only coat everything in sticky, it's also flammable. I'm not too worried, since the sap will be boiled, then strained before jarring.

this raises many various related issues of interest to me. I have long been an advocate/desirous of building highly insulated homes to the point of ZERO air exchange requiring actual heat/air exchangers to keep the inside air fresh enough for comfort.
It's true that our environmental systems are mostly making up for heat loss in the winter and vice versa in the summer. On my list of things to do is adding another layer of insulation in my attic. I also plan to replace all the sheetrock, since it's ancient and probably loaded with lead paint. That'll give me the opportunity to easily update the wiring and install new wall insulation. I do like when one task accomplishes three things. :mrgreen:

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:EG: one simple quick home is an inflated balloon the inside of which is shot with foam 8 inches thick that hardens enough to support an outside shell of concrete. Such a structure is cheap, quick, and easy to build and virtually "proof" against "everything." Some dude did a calculation and showed how many pet rabbits inside the structure would be needed to heat it in winter time...around 18 IIRC...all dependent on where you lived. A large family of course could heat the structure on their own.
That's brilliant! At this point, it is rather silly to keep building houses out of wood.

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:A decade back when most of my large electronics where analogue, there were transition months each spring and fall where the tv's and computers were satisfactorily heating my living and dining rooms.....and of course overheating the place in summer time. ---skipping 10 other issues--- and so...what "is" boiled/steamed off from ovens and stove cookings? Here in Sacramento...its legal to vent electric stoves into the house, while gas ovens must be vented to the outside.
I don't know what the codes are in MA, although I do know you can no longer put a wood stove in your basement, rout out vents, and rely on the ambient heat. You actually have to install ductwork. "Fire hazard," allegedly. My uncle built a Russian stove in his house in NH.

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:In my goal to live cheap, find double uses for anything used at all
I'm with you—and Alton Brown—on this one. I dislike one-trick ponies, with rare exceptions. Examples:
• I refused to buy a tortilla press because I can easily press them between my countertop and a cutting board, using my heavy marble rolling pin to apply even pressure.
• I don't have a garlic press; I either chop it up with a knife or mash it in my mortar and pestle (which is multi-use). And if I have to peel a ton of garlic cloves, I throw 'em in a bowl, cover it with a plate, and shake it up; the friction peels them.
• I bought a coffee grinder with a removable, washable cup so I could also use it to grind other things.
I recall an episode of Good Eats in which Alton made a food dehydrator from a box fan, some AC filters, and bungee cords. I also won't buy electric or electronic appliances when muscle will suffice, like my crank pasta machine and my handheld can opener.

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:All to the point: what is in the boil off if you make maple syrup in your living room? I would have thought "mostly" just water was driven out of the solution?
It is mostly water, but because of the 40-to-1 sap-to-syrup ratio, the boiling process generates a shitload of really hot steam. Which is sticky. And flammable because of the sugar. It's recommended that you only boil small batches indoors. Unless, of course, you have wallpaper you want removed. :mrgreen:
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Re: bobbo Brews BEER, and the Hobby of being CHEAP.

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Tue Feb 13, 2018 10:21 pm

Some of my favorite multi-tasking tools:

1. Hammer: I use it to hit a heavy bladed chef's knife to get thru still mostly frozen food. This allows me to get the food back in the freezer before too much energy is lost.

2. Nursery/Garden Shears. Work better than kitchen ones.

3. Pressure Cooker/Stainless. If you only have one pot.....this should be it. Slow cooks (yogurt, sous vide, crock pot), stews, distills..... does everything. Avoid no stick except for the one pan for eggs...and with skill don't need it for that either.

4. Spray bottle from used Dollar Store spray something. Use it to cool down too hot food, add steam to frying foods, clean out the bottom of bottles and jars, bother flies...lots of fun and saves cleaning up spatulas and the like. bobbonote: In my experience, spray bottles tend to start sticking and not working fairly fast. This can be fixed by putting a drop of olive oil around the trigger plunger. Works better than new then.

5. Gee....not that many. Using the Vita-Mix to make "instant ice cream" is actually one of its intended uses, but its a "blender" that can actually handle frozen milk cubes whereas most blenders cannot do this.....more on the market now that do seem to be capable....and much cheaper too. with cheesecloth...it can also Juice more food than you think it could. Re Cheese cloth....use old clothes cut up otherwise donated to goodwill. Works just as good and then...use the pressure cooker to sterilize the rags. Then use the water to clean dishes and unclog your kitchen sink drain pipe. Keep a pile of clean rags and use when needed. Actually...steam sterilize is what I do with many foods that have "just started to go bad' but don't smell or ooze too much (eg: freezer burn or foods with mold that can be cut out). I use the steam to sterilize the food and have saved $$$ with no ill effect so far. Yes....the bad chemicals some molds can make are not corrected by the process...but these are mostly about taste rather than real health issues. The BAD stuff is all anaerobic...not run into unless you can like I do........ And...using the pressure cooker to steam reheat food only takes a little bit longer than the microwave...but it does it while keeping or returning the soft texture of the food rather than making it rubbery or dried out. Just have to get in the habit of using it...rather than just for special occasions.

6. I have devolved to cooking techniques...but it does involve multi-tasking the tools. I have a Nu-Wave type overhead broiling element that is basically a flat lid.......I use it and the 3inch extender to bring that overhead broiling to any meal that needs it. Works really good in a fry pan to toast oversized foods that the counter cookers don't do...like stuffed croissants or bagel sandwiches. This can all be done in an oven...but takes forever. With the detachable overhead broiler....its 3-5 minutes total. I crisp things up now instead of accepting second rate food. If you have the heat wrong on eggs sunny side up...the broiler is an excellent way to get it exactly right..... ha, ha.....or you could just flip the eggs for 10 seconds. Its an esthetic issue.

7. Buying pork shoulder when on sale for near a buck a pound then making your own sausage is very cost effective, easy, and tasty. Soup/broth from the bone pays for the meat just by itself. But.....I'm starting to dither. I'll save it for later. ........But don't forget to make your own yogurt as a base for ice cream, smoothies, cream cheese etc. Lots of $$$ savings there too...and again easy and tasty.

8. Juice fruits and veggies that are no longer table presentable...but still give excellent juice. I'm not a juicer per se but I hate throwing salvageable food out...so juicing is one way to save it all. I do love equal parts of spinach, carrots, and half apple. Getting the spinach is the harder part but the drink is quite nice and worth it.
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Re: bobbo Brews BEER, and the Hobby of being CHEAP.

Postby Poodle » Tue Feb 13, 2018 10:32 pm

I've got to go with you there, bobbo. Sausage, far from being a gourmet delight, is the answer to the otherwise tough as old boot bits of gristly waste. Chuck in loads of your preferred herbs and spices and Bob's your sausage, so to speak.

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Re: bobbo Brews BEER, and the Hobby of being CHEAP.

Postby Nikki Nyx » Tue Feb 13, 2018 10:34 pm

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:Off topic to this video: I was quite enthused with "double roof" ideas. Lots of practicality to them as they are cheap to build. The issue is mostly one of esthetics....but done right and in the right temperate area....they can actually allow for roof top living areas with great success. Seem almost mandatory if you start with 4-5 shipping containers.
I actually priced shipping containers. There's a place on the South Shore that will deliver them. I thought two of them would make a fantastic garage, although I'd love to build an entire house out of them...something like this one, with varying angles and heights...
Spoiler:
Image

Or this one, with varied levels and lots of outdoor space...
Spoiler:
Image

This one even used a shipping container for its outdoor stairway...
Spoiler:
Image
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Re: bobbo Brews BEER, and the Hobby of being CHEAP.

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Tue Feb 13, 2018 10:47 pm

Poodle: I know what you mean, but Sausage IS a gourmet delight AND a good way to use mystery meat. and I do make my own hamburger mix from solid meat after getting ten pounds of pink slime. Taste was ok, but the texture was inedible. Its interesting to me how the old standard hand cranked meat grinder gives you a different meal than the same meat put thru the food processor, which is better for making patte. Maybe just my skill level. Last time I looked, kitchen experts were still cutting onions by hand when its dead simple and fast in a food processor. A few simple major cuts to help the food processor...then smaller batches of product...and only a single short pulse then look to see if that is what you want. Hmmm...maybe I should do that for my hamburger meat too? Pulverized and turned into slime is what you do to left over meat to add to chili beans????
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Re: bobbo Brews BEER, and the Hobby of being CHEAP.

Postby Nikki Nyx » Tue Feb 13, 2018 10:48 pm

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:Spray bottle from used Dollar Store spray something. Use it to cool down too hot food, add steam to frying foods, clean out the bottom of bottles and jars, bother flies...lots of fun and saves cleaning up spatulas and the like. bobbonote: In my experience, spray bottles tend to start sticking and not working fairly fast. This can be fixed by putting a drop of olive oil around the trigger plunger. Works better than new then.
I used several of them, since I don't buy commercial cleaners. One is filled with white vinegar, another with 50-50 bleach and water, and another with homemade Febreeze. That's a great tip for curing the sticking...thanks!

My vacuum sealer, which was expensive, saves a lot of money because I can bag up leftovers and have instant meals: just thaw and heat. I also use it to marinate meats before freezing them.

Obviously, we can't leave out the humble chef's knife, the supreme multi-tasker.

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:Buying pork shoulder when on sale for near a buck a pound then making your own sausage is very cost effective, easy, and tasty. Soup/broth from the bone pays for the meat just by itself.
Homemade sausage is awesome. I always save the scraps trimmed from meat. A store near me habitually has beef tenderloin for $7/pound, which is cheaper than sirloin in the regular grocery store. It comes with the "tail" attached, so I trim it up, slice it thinly, and make steak 'n' cheese grinders. The fat and such is stored until I have enough for beef stock.

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:Juice fruits and veggies that are no longer table presentable...but still give excellent juice. I'm not a juicer per se but I hate throwing salvageable food out...so juicing is one way to save it all. I do love equal parts of spinach, carrots, and half apple. Getting the spinach is the harder part but the drink is quite nice and worth it.
You can re-sprout some of them from their roots or take advantage of the free seeds. If nothing else, the peels and scraps are good for making vegetable stock.
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Re: bobbo Brews BEER, and the Hobby of being CHEAP.

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Tue Feb 13, 2018 10:48 pm

Nikki: those are the best container designs I have seen.....not the 50$/square foot designs I typically look at.

thanks for sharing.
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Re: bobbo Brews BEER, and the Hobby of being CHEAP.

Postby Nikki Nyx » Tue Feb 13, 2018 10:49 pm

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:Last time I looked, kitchen experts were still cutting onions by hand when its dead simple and fast in a food processor.
It's easier to wash a chef's knife than a food processor. :mrgreen:
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Re: bobbo Brews BEER, and the Hobby of being CHEAP.

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Tue Feb 13, 2018 10:58 pm

Nikki Nyx wrote:
bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:Last time I looked, kitchen experts were still cutting onions by hand when its dead simple and fast in a food processor.
It's easier to wash a chef's knife than a food processor. :mrgreen:

I've thought about sharpening my knife skills (sic!)...but I tend to process a bag of onions at a time. Peel them in a bowl watching tv....then food process them all up. Cook half of them...freeze them all in a tube shape. When onions (or mushrooms or lemon peel, or gravy....etc) are needed, easy to break off a chunk and use it. This is part of why my two freezers are too full to use. How can I freeze distillate my HCider (or make ice cream) if my freezer is full of chopped onions?
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Re: bobbo Brews BEER, and the Hobby of being CHEAP.

Postby Poodle » Tue Feb 13, 2018 11:00 pm

Nikki Nyx wrote:It's easier to wash a chef's knife than a food processor.

As long as the chef doesn't spot you stealing it.

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Re: bobbo Brews BEER, and the Hobby of being CHEAP.

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Tue Feb 13, 2018 11:28 pm

Nikki Nyx wrote: My vacuum sealer, which was expensive, saves a lot of money because I can bag up leftovers and have instant meals: just thaw and heat. I also use it to marinate meats before freezing them
I thought the main rip on vacuum sealing was the cost of the bags as well? aka: sealing steak is about the only way to save $$$. Youtube is full of people using standard zip lock bags and a straw to make the vacuum machines in use affordable. Again...using "fun" as the guide...portion out the time and the dithering around as you prefer.

Nikki Nyx wrote: A store near me habitually has beef tenderloin for $7/pound, which is cheaper than sirloin in the regular grocery store. It comes with the "tail" attached, so I trim it up, slice it thinly, and make steak 'n' cheese grinders. The fat and such is stored until I have enough for beef stock.
I've read about doing the same thing to get Filet Mignon cheaper than the cut sold alone...and I've wanted to try that, but I eat steak so infrequently, I haven't gotten around to it. Part of the Pros and cons of making sausage so good....why bother with anything else?
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Re: bobbo Brews BEER, and the Hobby of being CHEAP.

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Wed Feb 14, 2018 12:53 am

Its rather interesting. For the past few days, I've been trying to activate a "cultivar" of mash yeast by transfering a cup of HCider mash to two cups of sugar water. Still no activity, but I'm starting to decant 1-2-3 quarts of mash at a time and adding back in Sugar Water, failed yeasties, and high sugar scraps.........I know I will be adding amalyzed bread to the mash fairly soon. So...the mash over the past week has been "fairly" constant, with just small amounts of this and that added to it, mixed up, and drawn off from time to time.

I started this thread when the HCider was just really good. "Shockingly so." In the next 5-6 decants, the HCider was drinkable, but not remarkable. Well....an hour ago... with all the variability, I got another shockingly good quaff of HCider. .............I will never be able to lock down what made OK but acceptable into WoW..that is really good. I'll be drinking both..........and I really kind of like the fact that I think I'll be able to keep a "rolling mash" going and not have to stop to bottle the stuff. Just decant and drink. Don't know....but don't think you can do that with lots of other fermentables. I will draw some off into some flip top bottles and wait a few months. Will it be only acceptable....or Wow? In truth, I'd rather drink acceptable NOW....then wait months for Wow. I'm just that Id driven. I want "IT"..... and I want in NOW!!!!! Theme song.... from when I was 18.

EDIT: a guess. I think it is "mostly" the sugar level of the mash. I like it only slightly sweet. This avoids what is only ok which is slightly sour or even just neutral. NOT too sweet, I don't like sweet..... but enough sweet to avoid the other flavors? I think that is it. Next batch of only OK HCider: add a bit of sugar to it and see what happens?

Hobbies are for doing.........for fun. /// More what is "interesting".... while this is definitely "almost" all apples (and sugar) ...it doesn't taste like apples to me. Certainly not like the apple juice I put into the first mash. Now, to the degree that is true, this really "should be" true for any fermenting? I was thinking "Beer" when I wrote that...so I can see the rolling fermentation being very tasty.... NOT BEER... just as my apple cider right now is not apples...... but still good. You gotta be flexible in these things and not let labels controls your outlook/appreciations in life.
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Re: bobbo Brews BEER, and the Hobby of being CHEAP.

Postby Nikki Nyx » Wed Feb 14, 2018 2:48 am

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:
Nikki Nyx wrote: My vacuum sealer, which was expensive, saves a lot of money because I can bag up leftovers and have instant meals: just thaw and heat. I also use it to marinate meats before freezing them
I thought the main rip on vacuum sealing was the cost of the bags as well? aka: sealing steak is about the only way to save $$$. Youtube is full of people using standard zip lock bags and a straw to make the vacuum machines in use affordable. Again...using "fun" as the guide...portion out the time and the dithering around as you prefer.
The name brand bags are pricey, but I always buy the generic ones for slightly more than half the cost. The generic ones come in a huge box with 3 of each size roll...much cheaper unit price. Even with the cost of the bags, I don't spend as much as I would in a regular grocery store.

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:
Nikki Nyx wrote:A store near me habitually has beef tenderloin for $7/pound, which is cheaper than sirloin in the regular grocery store. It comes with the "tail" attached, so I trim it up, slice it thinly, and make steak 'n' cheese grinders. The fat and such is stored until I have enough for beef stock.
I've read about doing the same thing to get Filet Mignon cheaper than the cut sold alone...and I've wanted to try that, but I eat steak so infrequently, I haven't gotten around to it. Part of the Pros and cons of making sausage so good....why bother with anything else?
Yes, the half tenderloin is much cheaper than pre-cut steaks and roasts. I'm also able to get a pork tenderloin for $2/pound. I cut the two ends into roasts, and the rest into chops (with a couple packages of double cut chops for stuffing). The bulk butcher I frequent will slice up whatever you buy, but there's always a huge line. I have a beautifully sharp carving knife, so I'd just as soon do it myself. (Plus, I get all the scraps that way.)

Both the butcher and the off-price grocery store I frequent cater to local ethnic populations, so I can get stuff that the "white" grocery stores* don't carry:
• pork belly, beef short ribs, Manteca, beef brisket, schmaltz
• lemongrass, galangal root, mango, papaya, Meyer lemon, tomatillos, elephant garlic, leeks, and an infinite variety of chiles
• Puerto Rican, Portuguese, and Polish breads
• wonton, egg roll, and Spring roll wrappers
Both places have better prices than either the regular grocery store or Walmart.

* Not being a racist dick with that comment. Just noting that my city is 85% white (and 8% Latino, 2% African American, and under 1% each Asian, Pacific Islander, Native American, mixed race, and "other"). Fortunately, the minority population attends to its culture more than the majority; we have numerous ethnic restaurants and markets, while most of the "white" restaurants are chains, not mom & pop places.
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Re: bobbo Brews BEER, and the Hobby of being CHEAP.

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Wed Feb 14, 2018 4:50 am

Heh, heh........"white" restaurants ARE CHAIN RESTAURANTS. Close your eyes.......and just accept it.

I like white restaurants and food stores. I like ethnic, non-white restaurants and food stores. My eyes have been closed for some time......................
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Re: bobbo Brews BEER, and the Hobby of being CHEAP.

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Thu Feb 15, 2018 4:02 am

I just ordered a pound of amylase to convert starch to sugar for use in home brewing: turning starch into sugar for the yeasties to munch on. Cheapest price I could find (Beating the "Honey" app that never finds anything cheaper than amazon) was 3$ cheaper than amazon. https://www.ebay.com/itm/Amylase-enzyme ... .l4275.c10

If for bread only, I probably would have waiting........but I can use it for bananas and for rice fermenting as well...so it will probably get used. Lots of conflicts on the internet about whether enzymes are needed at all but the simple fact is that this enzyme converts starch...so it must be "good" if the temperature control is not as critical as it seems? Can't tell from the quick google that "bread" wine will ferment all on its own...or if as I suspect the bread is added only for the yeast it will introduce that acts on the fruit sugar and sugar that is also added? ==>The recipes just are not that informative/detailed.

I'll use it right off the bat for Bread Wine as I have a lot of that to use up.....but I look forward to using it with bananas as well. don't think it is really useful if staring with apples.............BUT I KNOW NOTHING. What chemistry I think I understand..... adding an enzyme makes sense..... for the fermentation of bread.

It is still a mystery to me...... like a believable magic trick..... that my mash will not "activate"/bubble in a sugar water solution. How can it not produce bubbles when drawn off of the mash bucket where it slowly perks away????? Makes no sense to me. Day 3 I think.......I'll let it keep sitting there. Inactive..... before I throw the batch back into the bucke to get the use of the sugar. Strangely.... while inactive on its own, if pitched into my original brew bucket....it activates and creates activity for 2-3 days. .................a mystery.

I gotta say: this apple mash is excellent. Better than the low end wines I afford. No first drink negative reaction: good from the first touch. Yep.....I can see $$$$$buying$$$$$$$$ apples from the get go as the final product in one week is cheaper than beer and better tasting than wine. Poor Boy===============>WINS!!!!!!!

I assume my production will become mostly a bread wine flavored by purchased apples. The best merging of options available to me. Next steps: bread/sake/bottling. Good thing I have no job..... this hobby takes time.
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Re: bobbo Brews BEER, and the Hobby of being CHEAP.

Postby Poodle » Thu Feb 15, 2018 8:15 am

More work needed, bobbo, with your bread ideas. The yeast used to make bread (which is NOT the same strain of yeast used in brewing/winemaking) will be completely and utterly dead at a temperature of 140F. The interior temperature of a loaf of bread during baking reaches 200F. That yeast has shuffled off its mortal coil. It is defunct. It has gone to the Great Yeast Home in the Sky. Even if you do use live bread yeast for your fermentations, it will give up the ghost at around 8% ABV - as opposed to the 16% ABV achievable with a good wine yeast.
You're on the right lines with amylase, though - you certainly will convert starches to sugars. So why waste all that effort by using bread yeast for a fermentation?
As for the necessity for enzymes, the only necessary one in your situation is the amylase. Have a Google around for yeast action in fermentation, where you''ll find that ALL natural alcohol production from sugars is the end-product of enzyme action, but that the enzymes are produced absolutely naturally by the yeast. You needn't worry about them.


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