We might have a new sense that has yet to be discovered

What you think about how you think.
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Re: We might have a new sense that has yet to be discovered

Postby Nikki Nyx » Sun Oct 08, 2017 5:26 pm

Omniverse wrote:I was imagining a pretend scenario where one had to live most or his entire life in a state of misery and hopelessness where no emotional regulation or thought process could make this individual feel positive emotions. In such a [pretend] scenario, that way of living would be completely empty and hell. You would say that such a way of life can still be worth living since this miserable person can channel that misery into things such as artwork. But, according to my personal view, our positive emotions are everything to our lives and we need them. As for the whole inner light/god thing, that was just an artistic metaphor. This is a metaphor which simply says: "We need our positive emotions. Without them, then our lives are empty regardless of what we were to believe otherwise."
What's the point in attempting to formulate a theory of emotions based on a "pretend scenario?" Go read about neural plasticity and emotion regulation. A theory based on your "personal view" is worthless, especially when it denies established science.
What are the facts? Again and again and again-what are the facts? Shun wishful thinking, ignore divine revelation, forget what “the stars foretell,” avoid opinion, care not what the neighbors think, never mind the unguessable “verdict of history”--what are the facts, and to how many decimal places? You pilot always into an unknown future; facts are your single clue. Get the facts!
—Lazarus Long, from Time Enough for Love, by Robert A. Heinlein

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Re: We might have a new sense that has yet to be discovered

Postby Poodle » Sun Oct 08, 2017 5:41 pm

"... we use metaphors all the time in literature and artwork ...".
Good use of the Royal 'We' there, Omnidork. As though one's name was Guelph. Which it probably will be next time you find another forum to troll.

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Re: We might have a new sense that has yet to be discovered

Postby Nikki Nyx » Sun Oct 08, 2017 6:49 pm

Omniverse wrote:@Nikki Nyx: I would like to say one last thing here in addition to my previous post. You tend to give up on me quite easily.
You have got to be {!#%@} kidding me. I've been actively discussing this with you since 18 June, based on my forum history. Go look at your own history.

Omniverse wrote:But this whole giving up on me is based upon accusations that are just plain unfair.
No, it's not. I've communicated to you a great deal of neurology, psychology, sociology, and philosophy, all of which you have denied and discarded. This is my reason for giving up, and it's a completely fair and factual accusation.

Omniverse wrote:I never said that our positive emotions are literally an inner light of god.
I never said you did; I said it was a terrible analogy, which it is.

Omniverse wrote:That was just an artistic metaphor since we use metaphors all the time in literature and artwork to convey elements of reality as I've explained in my previous post.
Don't try to teach your elders, boy. I'm a writer; I know all the tricks. Thing is, your so-called metaphor is invalid, because you are comparing two things that have absolutely nothing in common.

Omniverse wrote:There are also many other misconceptions as well that are just plain false.
Not remotely correct. I've been reading your stuff for nearly four months now, and my reading comprehension is excellent.

Omniverse wrote:As for my metaphor, why can't it work? If I was in the process of writing any piece of literature, then I could choose any element of reality and use any metaphor I wanted to in order to convey that element.
Randomly pairing up an element of reality with an unrelated descriptive phrase not how you formulate metaphors, not it you expect them to make sense. And why do you need a metaphor anyway? You're not writing literature.

Omniverse wrote:The only way I can have a positive experience in my life is through my positive emotions and the only way I can have a negative experience in my life is through my negative emotions.
You've got it backwards. The event comes first, followed by your emotional response to it, then (if you're an adult) your reasoned response. You can't change the event, but you absolutely can change your emotional response to it, as well as your reasoned response.

Omniverse wrote:Just because I define a positive experience there in the absence of my positive emotions does not mean it is there since there is a big difference between definitions and qualities.
Yes, it does. If you rationally recognize the experience as positive, but your emotions don't match up, then you lack normal emotional responses and should seek psychiatric help, since you might have a chemical imbalance or inappropriate emotion regulation. But the experience remains positive just the same.

Omniverse wrote:If you did not feel hungry and you defined the thought of getting something to eat as being a feeling of hunger, then there would still be no feeling of hunger there. There would be no quality of hunger there.
"Hungry" is not an emotion; it's a biological imperative. Therefore, your analogy is invalid.

Omniverse wrote:I can clearly tell that there is no real quality of good value, love, joy, or beauty in my life without my positive emotions regardless of what I were to believe otherwise. The same idea applies to negative emotions.
Prove it. Your opinions aren't evidence.

Omniverse wrote:These values that transcend words are what I call the consciousness based values in my other packet which explains all the horrible moments I've been through in my life. Consciousness based values, again, focus on the quality of your experience (conscious states) rather than definitions.
Again, you're using that word wrong. All values are consciousness-based. If you lacked consciousness, you would be unable to have values. Go ask someone in a coma...but don't hold your breath waiting for them to answer.

Omniverse wrote:I have had horrible, altered, crippled states in my nightmares which were orders of magnitude worse than the ones in my waking life. These completely altered states were literally of the worst possible quality in my life and it is not a matter of me just simply looking at them and judging them to be horrible. Yes, I have judged them to be horrible. But they were literally horrible. So, my judgment would be correct and reflects the reality (quality) of my experience.
Nightmares are not reality. If your nightmares are affecting your waking life this much, then you should have a sleep study to determine what the problem is.

Omniverse wrote:During my worst miserable moments, I have still chosen to get the help I needed and I still believed that to be a good and beautiful thing. Why wouldn't I? The idea of regaining my positive emotions back to me would certainly be a good and beautiful thing for a hedonist like me. But hear me out when I say this. Even though I believed changing my life was a good and beautiful thing during my worst miserable moments, I could clearly tell that there was no real positive emotion, feeling, experience, or any real good value/beauty in my life at all. My life was still literally the worst hell and completely devoid of any good value and beauty. That is why I have to come to the conclusion that this other definition of a positive and negative experience, feeling, emotion, and good/bad is false.
Again, your personal opinions do not qualify as evidence. You are attempting to formulate a theory of emotion based on one person's experiences...your own. That's not how it's done. Nor can you cavalierly decide that you are correct, and that your perceptions apply to everyone. They don't.
What are the facts? Again and again and again-what are the facts? Shun wishful thinking, ignore divine revelation, forget what “the stars foretell,” avoid opinion, care not what the neighbors think, never mind the unguessable “verdict of history”--what are the facts, and to how many decimal places? You pilot always into an unknown future; facts are your single clue. Get the facts!
—Lazarus Long, from Time Enough for Love, by Robert A. Heinlein

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Re: We might have a new sense that has yet to be discovered

Postby Omniverse » Sun Oct 08, 2017 7:31 pm

@Nikki Nyx: You must understand what I meant by experience and reality of my experience. When I said experience, I was not referring to events. I was instead referring to conscious states besides emotions. People have used the term experience in this manner which was the reason why I was also using it in this manner. You need a positive experience in your life in order for your life to not be empty. For example, with those miserable genius artists, despite their complete misery, they have still claimed their lives were not empty. They claimed their lives and art were still beautiful from their perspective. This mindset would presuppose a positive experience in their lives. I had no such positive experience during my miserable moments despite me believing it to be a good and beautiful thing to get the help I needed.

So, in my scenario, I believed that something was good and beautiful in my life, but my life was still empty. In the scenario of those artists, they believed their lives and art were beautiful and their lives were not empty. The difference here would be that I did not have the positive experience to truly make my life beautiful and good, but they had that positive experience. This positive experience is what I define as a quality of pure goodness. You can define your life as being good all you want to. But as long as that quality of goodness isn't there, then your life is empty. This quality of goodness is what I metaphorically describe as being the inner light. My positive emotions are my inner light and I have never had any other form of the inner light. So, going back to those nightmare states. The quality of those states was the inner darkness. That is, it was literally of the worst quality. That is what I mean by the reality of my experience.

If I were to do a rewrite which uses these terms based upon how you define them, then here it is:

I would like to share to you my worldview which is based upon my own personal experience. My positive emotions are the only way for me to live and be a composer. Without them, then my life is empty. Positive emotions are states induced by the brain's biochemicals (i.e. serotonin, dopamine, endorphins, and oxytocin). Positive emotions at an intense level can be described as euphoria, bliss, or ecstasy. They could be feelings of love, profound joy and beauty, excitement such as from getting a new movie, a feeling of sexual arousal, etc. Negative emotions would be feelings such as anger, sadness, misery, despair, hate, grief, etc. I have had many miserable moments in my life and these were the worst emotional states of my life. During these moments, I believed that getting help was something good and beautiful.

But, at the same time, I could clearly tell that my life was still empty and was still the worst life regardless of what I believed. This means that something other than a mere belief or mindset is required to make one's life truly perceived as good and beautiful. It requires a state of mind that possesses a positive quality to it. There is a big difference between definitions and qualities. You can define water to be inside an empty glass, but that will not make water appear in that glass. You could also define yourself as having sight when you are blind, but that would still not give you actual sight. As you can see here, definitions alone do not change the reality of our inner universe. As long as you define your life as being something good and beautiful when there is no positive quality there, then your life is still empty.

This positive quality is what I metaphorically describe as being the inner light. I give this description to make things much more convenient. For me to say something such as that the negative quality can certainly inspire works of art as opposed to saying that the inner darkness can certainly inspire works of art wouldn't really make much sense which is the reason why I stick to the terms inner light and inner darkness. My positive emotions are my inner light while my negative emotions are my inner darkness. I have never had any other form of the inner light and inner darkness besides my positive and negative emotions which means that something tragic could happen in my life right now. But as long as I am feeling happy, then none of that would matter to me. The only way this tragedy could matter to me is if I felt a negative emotion from it. Therefore, my negative emotions are the only things that can make things in life matter to me in bad ways while my positive emotions are the only things that can make things matter to me in good ways.

This is because my emotions are forms of motivation and they are the only things that can make things, moments, and situations truly matter to me. This means that something mattering to me is not a thought (mindset). Rather, it is an emotional state. If I felt excited from a movie or game, then that movie or game would matter to me in a good way. If I felt sad or angry, then that situation would matter to me in a bad way. Having anhedonia (no emotion) would only render my life not mattering to me at all since I would be in a state of complete apathy. This has been my own personal experience. Our positive and negative emotions could really be the only inner light and inner darkness. This would have to mean that all those miserable artists who had no positive emotions were only deluding themselves through a false definition of a positive state of mind as well as their lives somehow still being good and beautiful.

Or, they could have had a small degree of positive emotion mixed in with their misery to at least give their lives some real good values. Another possibility is that they had another form of the inner light. But that was obviously not the case with me. I could have a disability which prevents me from having any other form of inner light and inner darkness in my life. I have always been a special needs person who was not capable of what others were able to do. But like I was saying, those miserable states were the absolute worst form of inner darkness in my life. Once I have fully recovered from them, then my whole entire mental reality (atmosphere) changes to the realm of the light, so to speak. This is the realm of joy, goodness, love, and beauty I need to be in. As long as I am in the realm of the darkness or in the realm of neither light nor darkness, then it is no way to live or be an artist for me.

With all of this being said, I have come to realize that the inner light is truly the most vital and precious thing to our inner universe. Sure, the inner darkness can certainly inspire you to create works of art. But the inner darkness can only make your life horrible. The darkness can only see bad and the light can only see good. Therefore, it is the light we need in our lives to truly make our lives good, worth living, and beautiful. I just think that people are too focused on the outer universe and not their inner universe. It's not about what's on the outside. It's what's on the inside that matters because that is where all the real joy, goodness, and beauty is at. Sure, your life could still be wonderful on the outside such as if you were living in a luxurious paradise.

But as long as your inner universe is devoid of the light, then all of it would truly be nothing from your perspective. It wouldn't be truly perceived as something beautiful and good. To conclude this packet, there is another packet which describes all the horrible nightmare states I've had. These were literally of the worst quality (the absolute worst form of the inner darkness). I describe the inner light and inner darkness as being consciousness the new age values. These values focus on the quality of your states rather than definitions. So, if a beautiful quality state was there in your life, then that would be a beautiful new age value. The same idea applies to having a horrible quality state in your life.

This means that, for me to define my life as being something good and beautiful without that positive quality there would be no different than a blind person defining himself as visualizing colors. That blind person would only be thinking of colors in his mind. But he would not be able to visualize them. The inner light is what allows us to truly see the goodness and beauty in our lives just as how the sense of sight allows us to visualize colors. The same idea applies to the inner darkness. As long as I am without the inner light, then there would be no real good values in my life at all just as how there would be no real colors in the blind person's life either. When I am in my most miserable state, then I become blind to all the goodness and beauty in my life. But when I fully recover, then that is like a blind person recovering his sight.
Last edited by Omniverse on Mon Oct 09, 2017 10:26 am, edited 5 times in total.

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Matt MVS7 Trolling Thread No6

Postby Matthew Ellard » Sun Oct 08, 2017 11:40 pm

Matt MVS7 wrote: My positive emotions are the only way for me to live and be a composer.


What complete crap. You have been trolling this same story for five years and could have reached Grade Five on piano in that period. You have no music skills whatsoever.

You are simply trolling.
:lol:

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Re: We might have a new sense that has yet to be discovered

Postby Nikki Nyx » Mon Oct 09, 2017 6:25 pm

Omniverse wrote:@Nikki Nyx: You must understand what I meant by experience and reality of my experience. When I said experience, I was not referring to events. I was instead referring to conscious states besides emotions.
From the Cambridge Dictionary:
experience /ɪkˈspɪər·i·əns/
noun
(the process of getting) knowledge or skill that is obtained from doing, seeing, or feeling things, or something that happens which has an effect on you.
verb
to have something happen to you, or to do or feel something.
If you're habitually using words to mean other than their accepted definitions, you will always have problems with people understanding you.

Omniverse wrote:For example, with those miserable genius artists, despite their complete misery, they have still claimed their lives were not empty. They claimed their lives and art were still beautiful from their perspective.
Where did you read that? Please provide names of the people you call "miserable genius artists" who claimed that their lives were beautiful in the absence of positive emotions.

Omniverse wrote:In the scenario of those artists, they believed their lives and art were beautiful and their lives were not empty. The difference here would be that I did not have the positive experience to truly make my life beautiful and good, but they had that positive experience.
Again, please cite references to show that artists who experienced depression believed their lives were "beautiful" and "not empty," and who claim happiness in the absence of positive emotions. You're making groundless assumptions, then using those assumptions to make a comparison which you cannot prove is valid.

Omniverse wrote:If I were to do a rewrite...
You wasted your time, since your "rewrite" merely rephrases your theory and includes faulty analogies.
What are the facts? Again and again and again-what are the facts? Shun wishful thinking, ignore divine revelation, forget what “the stars foretell,” avoid opinion, care not what the neighbors think, never mind the unguessable “verdict of history”--what are the facts, and to how many decimal places? You pilot always into an unknown future; facts are your single clue. Get the facts!
—Lazarus Long, from Time Enough for Love, by Robert A. Heinlein

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Re: Matt MVS7 Trolling Thread No6

Postby Nikki Nyx » Mon Oct 09, 2017 6:31 pm

Matthew Ellard wrote:[color=#000080]What complete crap. You have been trolling this same story for five years and could have reached Grade Five on piano in that period.
It reads to me like delusional rationalization. "I coulda been a contender!" Speaking from experience (and from medical research), if you have mood disorders, you must be the most active member of your health care team. Dwelling on the disorders by constantly complaining about them will make them worse. You have to actively work to reprogram your brain via neural plasticity. But Omni refuses to read the manual, since he gets more mileage from complaining. It's the modern-day culture of "Pay attention to me! I'm special! I'm a victim!" Only if you choose to be a victim by defining yourself by your diagnoses.
What are the facts? Again and again and again-what are the facts? Shun wishful thinking, ignore divine revelation, forget what “the stars foretell,” avoid opinion, care not what the neighbors think, never mind the unguessable “verdict of history”--what are the facts, and to how many decimal places? You pilot always into an unknown future; facts are your single clue. Get the facts!
—Lazarus Long, from Time Enough for Love, by Robert A. Heinlein

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Re: We might have a new sense that has yet to be discovered

Postby Omniverse » Mon Oct 09, 2017 7:11 pm

Nikki Nyx wrote:
Omniverse wrote:@Nikki Nyx: You must understand what I meant by experience and reality of my experience. When I said experience, I was not referring to events. I was instead referring to conscious states besides emotions.
From the Cambridge Dictionary:
experience /ɪkˈspɪər·i·əns/
noun
(the process of getting) knowledge or skill that is obtained from doing, seeing, or feeling things, or something that happens which has an effect on you.
verb
to have something happen to you, or to do or feel something.
If you're habitually using words to mean other than their accepted definitions, you will always have problems with people understanding you.

Omniverse wrote:For example, with those miserable genius artists, despite their complete misery, they have still claimed their lives were not empty. They claimed their lives and art were still beautiful from their perspective.
Where did you read that? Please provide names of the people you call "miserable genius artists" who claimed that their lives were beautiful in the absence of positive emotions.

Omniverse wrote:In the scenario of those artists, they believed their lives and art were beautiful and their lives were not empty. The difference here would be that I did not have the positive experience to truly make my life beautiful and good, but they had that positive experience.
Again, please cite references to show that artists who experienced depression believed their lives were "beautiful" and "not empty," and who claim happiness in the absence of positive emotions. You're making groundless assumptions, then using those assumptions to make a comparison which you cannot prove is valid.

Omniverse wrote:If I were to do a rewrite...
You wasted your time, since your "rewrite" merely rephrases your theory and includes faulty analogies.


But I thought that was this whole debate we were having in the first place. I said that positive emotions were the only way to live and that they were the only way to be an artist (i.e. that they were the only things that could truly make our lives and artistic endeavors beautiful, good, and worth living for). But you disagreed with this because you said that negative emotions such as hopelessness and misery were also an alternative to living a good and beautiful life through channeling these emotions into creating works of art.

Nikki Nyx wrote:
Matthew Ellard wrote:[color=#000080]What complete crap. You have been trolling this same story for five years and could have reached Grade Five on piano in that period.
It reads to me like delusional rationalization. "I coulda been a contender!" Speaking from experience (and from medical research), if you have mood disorders, you must be the most active member of your health care team. Dwelling on the disorders by constantly complaining about them will make them worse. You have to actively work to reprogram your brain via neural plasticity. But Omni refuses to read the manual, since he gets more mileage from complaining. It's the modern-day culture of "Pay attention to me! I'm special! I'm a victim!" Only if you choose to be a victim by defining yourself by your diagnoses.


I'm not complaining. I have always sought the help I needed during my miserable moments. I am just trying to figure out how a life without positive emotions can still be a good and beautiful life. I am just confused about this whole notion of a miserable artist who has nothing but a negative emotion (misery and despair) somehow living a beautiful life through his art. I think you would at least need a small amount of positive emotion mixed in with that misery to give your life a little bit of real good value. Therefore, from my perspective, it is only positive emotions that can give your life real good value, negative emotions that can only give your life bad value, and having no emotions at all that can only render your life with no real value at all. This means that negative emotions are no way to live or be an artist and so is having no emotions at all any way to live or be an artist. It can only be your positive emotions which are the true way to live and be an artist.

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Re: We might have a new sense that has yet to be discovered

Postby Nikki Nyx » Mon Oct 09, 2017 7:29 pm

Omniverse wrote:But I thought that was this whole debate we were having in the first place. I said that positive emotions were the only way to live and that they were the only way to be an artist (i.e. that they were the only things that could truly make our lives and artistic endeavors beautiful, good, and worth living for). But you disagreed with this because you said that negative emotions such as hopelessness and misery were also an alternative to living a good and beautiful life through channeling these emotions into creating works of art.
That's not what I said at all! I said that negative emotions are a powerful inspiration for an artist, and that by channeling those negative emotions into artistic expression, they could be transformed into positive emotions: relief, pride, a feeling of accomplishment, etc.

Omniverse wrote:I'm not complaining. I have always sought the help I needed during my miserable moments. I am just trying to figure out how a life without positive emotions can still be a good and beautiful life.
It can't. I've said numerous times that both emotions and reasoned judgment are crucial.

Omniverse wrote:I am just confused about this whole notion of a miserable artist who has nothing but a negative emotion (misery and despair) somehow living a beautiful life through his art. I think you would at least need a small amount of positive emotion mixed in with that misery to give your life a little bit of real good value.
Because you're not reading what I'm writing. I explained it again above, exactly the way I explained it before.
What are the facts? Again and again and again-what are the facts? Shun wishful thinking, ignore divine revelation, forget what “the stars foretell,” avoid opinion, care not what the neighbors think, never mind the unguessable “verdict of history”--what are the facts, and to how many decimal places? You pilot always into an unknown future; facts are your single clue. Get the facts!
—Lazarus Long, from Time Enough for Love, by Robert A. Heinlein

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Re: We might have a new sense that has yet to be discovered

Postby Omniverse » Mon Oct 09, 2017 7:36 pm

Nikki Nyx wrote:
Omniverse wrote:But I thought that was this whole debate we were having in the first place. I said that positive emotions were the only way to live and that they were the only way to be an artist (i.e. that they were the only things that could truly make our lives and artistic endeavors beautiful, good, and worth living for). But you disagreed with this because you said that negative emotions such as hopelessness and misery were also an alternative to living a good and beautiful life through channeling these emotions into creating works of art.
That's not what I said at all! I said that negative emotions are a powerful inspiration for an artist, and that by channeling those negative emotions into artistic expression, they could be transformed into positive emotions: relief, pride, a feeling of accomplishment, etc.

Omniverse wrote:I'm not complaining. I have always sought the help I needed during my miserable moments. I am just trying to figure out how a life without positive emotions can still be a good and beautiful life.
It can't. I've said numerous times that both emotions and reasoned judgment are crucial.

Omniverse wrote:I am just confused about this whole notion of a miserable artist who has nothing but a negative emotion (misery and despair) somehow living a beautiful life through his art. I think you would at least need a small amount of positive emotion mixed in with that misery to give your life a little bit of real good value.
Because you're not reading what I'm writing. I explained it again above, exactly the way I explained it before.


So, you were saying that any brief given moment in your life that has no positive emotion is not a good and beautiful life at all? Which means that you need your positive emotions to truly make your life good but, at the same time, you would need your reasoned value judgments to help you make wise decisions. Any brief moment that is nothing but a negative emotion would, therefore, have to be a bad life. It is also no way to live either. This means that we actually don't need negative emotions since they can only make our lives bad. We should instead have positive emotions to inspire us in any given endeavor whether it be escaping from danger, creating works of art, etc. since this is the only form of motivation and inspiration that can make our lives truly good and beautiful.

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Re: We might have a new sense that has yet to be discovered

Postby Nikki Nyx » Mon Oct 09, 2017 8:21 pm

Omniverse wrote:So, you were saying that any brief given moment in your life that has no positive emotion is not a good and beautiful life at all?
No. Do you have reading comprehension issues? It's impossible to remain in a state of powerfully positive emotions every single second of your life. To demand that, or even believe it's possible, is wishful thinking at best, willful stupidity at worst.

Omniverse wrote:Any brief moment that is nothing but a negative emotion would, therefore, have to be a bad life. It is also no way to live either.
So, you judge a life to be bad because the person experienced a "brief moment" of negative emotions. Man, are you in for a rude awakening.

Omniverse wrote:This means that we actually don't need negative emotions since they can only make our lives bad.
Idiot. Negative emotions are survival mechanisms quite as much as positive emotions. Those instinctive reactions—anger, fear, sadness—are gauges that prompt reasoned judgment to react to negative stimuli. In a mature person, that is. Immature people react based solely on their emotions.

Omniverse wrote:We should instead have positive emotions to inspire us in any given endeavor whether it be escaping from danger, creating works of art, etc. since this is the only form of motivation and inspiration that can make our lives truly good and beautiful.
Wrong again. You're not reading what I'm writing. Go back and read my last post and comprehend what I've written.

But you won't. You'll misunderstand what I'm clearly stating and continue to cry for attention by posting copypasta of your misguided theory. So, I quit. Leave me alone. I've wasted enough time addressing your nonsense and I'm not interested in hearing it again for the nth time. Go spew it at your therapist; s/he gets paid to listen.
What are the facts? Again and again and again-what are the facts? Shun wishful thinking, ignore divine revelation, forget what “the stars foretell,” avoid opinion, care not what the neighbors think, never mind the unguessable “verdict of history”--what are the facts, and to how many decimal places? You pilot always into an unknown future; facts are your single clue. Get the facts!
—Lazarus Long, from Time Enough for Love, by Robert A. Heinlein

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Re: We might have a new sense that has yet to be discovered

Postby Omniverse » Mon Oct 09, 2017 8:26 pm

Nikki Nyx wrote:
Omniverse wrote:So, you were saying that any brief given moment in your life that has no positive emotion is not a good and beautiful life at all?
No. Do you have reading comprehension issues? It's impossible to remain in a state of powerfully positive emotions every single second of your life. To demand that, or even believe it's possible, is wishful thinking at best, willful stupidity at worst.

Omniverse wrote:Any brief moment that is nothing but a negative emotion would, therefore, have to be a bad life. It is also no way to live either.
So, you judge a life to be bad because the person experienced a "brief moment" of negative emotions. Man, are you in for a rude awakening.

Omniverse wrote:This means that we actually don't need negative emotions since they can only make our lives bad.
Idiot. Negative emotions are survival mechanisms quite as much as positive emotions. Those instinctive reactions—anger, fear, sadness—are gauges that prompt reasoned judgment to react to negative stimuli. In a mature person, that is. Immature people react based solely on their emotions.

Omniverse wrote:We should instead have positive emotions to inspire us in any given endeavor whether it be escaping from danger, creating works of art, etc. since this is the only form of motivation and inspiration that can make our lives truly good and beautiful.
Wrong again. You're not reading what I'm writing. Go back and read my last post and comprehend what I've written.

But you won't. You'll misunderstand what I'm clearly stating and continue to cry for attention by posting copypasta of your misguided theory. So, I quit. Leave me alone. I've wasted enough time addressing your nonsense and I'm not interested in hearing it again for the nth time. Go spew it at your therapist; s/he gets paid to listen.


But you clearly told me earlier that having no emotions at all is no way to live or be an artist. Nonetheless, value judgments would still be vital and necessary anyway even without emotions. It would follow from here that having no emotions is not a truly good or bad way to live, but that our reasoned value judgments would still be necessary. From there, our positive emotions are the only true good life to live and our negative emotions are the only truly bad life to live all the while our reasoned value judgment still being vital anyway. If you felt nothing but a positive emotion and you made a bad reasoned value judgment, then that mindset would need to be a negative state of mind. Remember, a negative state of mind is a quality.

Without that negative quality, then there can be no real bad value in your life. Likewise, if you had a reasoned good value judgment while feeling nothing but a negative emotion, then that mindset would have to possess a positive quality to it to make it real good value in your life. All I am basically saying here is that, in order for our lives to truly be good, worth living, and something beautiful from the perspective of our inner universe, then that requires a positive quality (what I call the inner light). I think this is something we already know for a fact. Moments where you have this positive quality are the moments where your life is good while moments where you have the negative quality are moments where your life is bad.

Moments where you have neither this positive nor negative quality are moments where your life has no value and no worth at all. The positive and negative quality would be a quality of pure goodness and badness just as how water is a quality. Without the positive and negative quality, then it would be like us having no water. We could believe our lives to be good or bad, but there would be no real good or bad value there (i.e. no water there).
Last edited by Omniverse on Tue Oct 10, 2017 12:42 am, edited 5 times in total.

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Re: We might have a new sense that has yet to be discovered

Postby Poodle » Mon Oct 09, 2017 8:37 pm

It's no good trying to keep out of his way, Nikki. If he thinks you mean it he simply changes his forum name (he thinks he's reinventing himself but he always defaults to the mewling, self-pitying crap for which he's famous over a good stretch of the net) and has another go. This time, for instance, he's an artist and a composer. I've heard the noise he creates - it ain't music by any stretch of the imagination. He's also a complete failure with his attempts to impress the players of the Zelda games (for which most of his 'music' was created). Fortunately, his new alter egos are so transparent that he's always spotted within two or three posts.

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Re: Matt MVS7 Trolling Thread No6

Postby Matthew Ellard » Tue Oct 10, 2017 12:47 am

Matthew Ellard wrote:What complete crap. You have been trolling this same story for five years and could have reached Grade Five on piano in that period.
Nikki Nyx wrote: It reads to me like delusional rationalization. "I coulda been a contender!"

Not in this case. It is pure 100% trolling. The entire time (five years) Matt MSV7 was claiming he could not compose music, due to his "problem", he loaded up over 100 compositions on You tube. :D

On some forums he claimed to be a brilliant composer looking for a music producer. On other forums he claimed to be incapable of composing anything because he was suffering anhedonia, other times schizophrenia, other times autism, other times constipation, other times because he was raped as a child and so on and so on.

On some forums he states he has a therapist and is cured. On other forums, he says he has a psychiatrist and is cured. On other forums that he has no one and needs skeptics to cure him........so he can load up more compositions.
(That's his big joke)


He started trolling children's video game websites, specifically "Zelda" and trolling children and then moved on to science, skeptic and adult websites. You can find his early trolling under names like Mozart Link.
http://www.atheistrepublic.com/forums/a ... c-memories

He is still, in 2017, loading up his compositions on Zelda forums to attract children.
https://zeldadungeon.net/forum/threads/ ... anz.59603/

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Re: We might have a new sense that has yet to be discovered

Postby Gawdzilla Sama » Tue Oct 10, 2017 8:59 pm

The universe is simultaneously not as sexy as some people would wish AND far more fascinating than they realize. Getting their heads out fantasy would allow them time to see that there's a grandeur in this view of the universe.
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Re: We might have a new sense that has yet to be discovered

Postby Gord » Wed Oct 11, 2017 2:05 am

My sense of burflap is tingling.
"Knowledge grows through infinite timelessness" -- the random fictional Deepak Chopra quote site
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Re: We might have a new sense that has yet to be discovered

Postby Gawdzilla Sama » Wed Oct 11, 2017 10:47 am

Gord wrote:My sense of burflap is tingling.

Calamine lotion.
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Re: We might have a new sense that has yet to be discovered

Postby Nikki Nyx » Wed Oct 11, 2017 5:22 pm

Omniverse wrote:But you clearly told me earlier that having no emotions at all is no way to live or be an artist.
Naturally. How can you create when you're apathetic? Emotion drives art, whether it's positive or negative emotion. What does this have to do with what I just said?

Omniverse wrote:It would follow from here that having no emotions is not a truly good or bad way to live, but that our reasoned value judgments would still be necessary. From there, our positive emotions are the only true good life to live and our negative emotions are the only truly bad life to live all the while our reasoned value judgment still being vital anyway.
I've said numerous times that both emotions and reasoned judgment are necessary. You're still not recognizing that emotions aren't magical; they're generated by neurochemicals that you can control through emotion regulation. If I'm in a bad mood for whatever reason, I can actively change that mood into a good one, because I've practiced emotion regulation.

Omniverse wrote:Without that negative quality, then there can be no real bad value in your life. Likewise, if you had a reasoned good value judgment while feeling nothing but a negative emotion, then that mindset would have to possess a positive quality to it to make it real good value in your life.
Yes, exactly. Your mindset can affect your emotions for the better...and for the worst. This is why I keep telling you to stop dwelling on your misery, because your mindset is making you more miserable; it's making you feel more negative emotions.

You know that I suffer from chronic pain disorders. I've had these medical issues for 18 years now, to the point that I don't remember what "no pain" feels like. My doctor frequently asks me to rate my pain on a scale from zero to ten, and my answer is, "I don't know, because I have no frame of reference; I don't remember what 'zero pain' is like." However, if I constantly dwell on my pain, it makes me miserable. Not only am I focusing my attention on the pain, but I'm also thinking that I'll be in this pain for the rest of my life, barring a miracle cure. OTOH, if I focus my attention on other things, not only does my pain lessen (because I'm not paying attention to it), but also I'm able to retain the emotion of contentment for about 90% of my waking time.

This is what you have to do: utterly refuse to allow the negative portions of your life control your whole life. And emotion regulation is the key.

Omniverse wrote:All I am basically saying here is that, in order for our lives to truly be good, worth living, and something beautiful from the perspective of our inner universe, then that requires a positive quality (what I call the inner light). I think this is something we already know for a fact. Moments where you have this positive quality are the moments where your life is good while moments where you have the negative quality are moments where your life is bad.
Except that emotions are not things that happen to you. There's no Happiness Fairy who will come along and dump magical dust on you, instantly creating happiness. YOU are responsible for creating happiness in your life. You can choose to simply react to the events you experience, allowing them to control your emotions and your life (like you're currently doing)...or you can choose to be happy in spite of the events you experience (like I do).

This is not a situation where I'm "deluding myself" that I'm happy based solely on my mindset; it's a situation where I've learned to control my own emotions and generate the ones I want to feel. Changing my mindset changes my emotions, because I've learned emotion regulation.

Do you really think my life has been all sunshine and roses? If I related to you the amount and depth of absolute {!#%@} I've been through in my life, you'd wonder how the incredible amount of negativity didn't cause me to blow my own head off. Deal with your issues; don't just dwell on them. YOU are the one in control of your own emotions. You just have to read the damn manual and learn to program your own brain.
What are the facts? Again and again and again-what are the facts? Shun wishful thinking, ignore divine revelation, forget what “the stars foretell,” avoid opinion, care not what the neighbors think, never mind the unguessable “verdict of history”--what are the facts, and to how many decimal places? You pilot always into an unknown future; facts are your single clue. Get the facts!
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Re: Matt MVS7 Trolling Thread No6

Postby Nikki Nyx » Wed Oct 11, 2017 5:35 pm

Matthew Ellard wrote:
Matthew Ellard wrote:What complete crap. You have been trolling this same story for five years and could have reached Grade Five on piano in that period.
Nikki Nyx wrote: It reads to me like delusional rationalization. "I coulda been a contender!"

Not in this case. It is pure 100% trolling. The entire time (five years) Matt MSV7 was claiming he could not compose music, due to his "problem", he loaded up over 100 compositions on You tube. :D

On some forums he claimed to be a brilliant composer looking for a music producer. On other forums he claimed to be incapable of composing anything because he was suffering anhedonia, other times schizophrenia, other times autism, other times constipation, other times because he was raped as a child and so on and so on.

On some forums he states he has a therapist and is cured. On other forums, he says he has a psychiatrist and is cured. On other forums that he has no one and needs skeptics to cure him........so he can load up more compositions.
(That's his big joke)
You know, I thoroughly understand depression, having suffered from it for 40 years. I won't lie: There are times when I experience suicidal ideation. Chronic pain is a bitch that never stops nagging for a second. But I'm tougher than that. I refuse to allow circumstances to destroy my life...the only one I have. I'm going to goddamn enjoy my life while it lasts. And I'm not remotely selfish enough to suicide.

So I don't have a whole lot of pity when people don't understand that wallowing in misery and self-pity just makes them unhappy, and that they themselves have the power to change their quality of life. I'm not saying that circumstances don't affect me. Of course, they do. It's in the dealing with those circumstances where you either shine or burn out.

But allowing negative emotions to run your life, and doing nothing about it, is not too different from being diagnosed with diabetes...and noshing on sugar-filled garbage. Mood disorders are not character flaws any more than diabetes is...unless you refuse to deal with them.
What are the facts? Again and again and again-what are the facts? Shun wishful thinking, ignore divine revelation, forget what “the stars foretell,” avoid opinion, care not what the neighbors think, never mind the unguessable “verdict of history”--what are the facts, and to how many decimal places? You pilot always into an unknown future; facts are your single clue. Get the facts!
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Re: We might have a new sense that has yet to be discovered

Postby Omniverse » Wed Oct 11, 2017 6:53 pm

Nikki Nyx wrote:
Omniverse wrote:But you clearly told me earlier that having no emotions at all is no way to live or be an artist.
Naturally. How can you create when you're apathetic? Emotion drives art, whether it's positive or negative emotion. What does this have to do with what I just said?

Omniverse wrote:It would follow from here that having no emotions is not a truly good or bad way to live, but that our reasoned value judgments would still be necessary. From there, our positive emotions are the only true good life to live and our negative emotions are the only truly bad life to live all the while our reasoned value judgment still being vital anyway.
I've said numerous times that both emotions and reasoned judgment are necessary. You're still not recognizing that emotions aren't magical; they're generated by neurochemicals that you can control through emotion regulation. If I'm in a bad mood for whatever reason, I can actively change that mood into a good one, because I've practiced emotion regulation.

Omniverse wrote:Without that negative quality, then there can be no real bad value in your life. Likewise, if you had a reasoned good value judgment while feeling nothing but a negative emotion, then that mindset would have to possess a positive quality to it to make it real good value in your life.
Yes, exactly. Your mindset can affect your emotions for the better...and for the worst. This is why I keep telling you to stop dwelling on your misery, because your mindset is making you more miserable; it's making you feel more negative emotions.

You know that I suffer from chronic pain disorders. I've had these medical issues for 18 years now, to the point that I don't remember what "no pain" feels like. My doctor frequently asks me to rate my pain on a scale from zero to ten, and my answer is, "I don't know, because I have no frame of reference; I don't remember what 'zero pain' is like." However, if I constantly dwell on my pain, it makes me miserable. Not only am I focusing my attention on the pain, but I'm also thinking that I'll be in this pain for the rest of my life, barring a miracle cure. OTOH, if I focus my attention on other things, not only does my pain lessen (because I'm not paying attention to it), but also I'm able to retain the emotion of contentment for about 90% of my waking time.

This is what you have to do: utterly refuse to allow the negative portions of your life control your whole life. And emotion regulation is the key.

Omniverse wrote:All I am basically saying here is that, in order for our lives to truly be good, worth living, and something beautiful from the perspective of our inner universe, then that requires a positive quality (what I call the inner light). I think this is something we already know for a fact. Moments where you have this positive quality are the moments where your life is good while moments where you have the negative quality are moments where your life is bad.
Except that emotions are not things that happen to you. There's no Happiness Fairy who will come along and dump magical dust on you, instantly creating happiness. YOU are responsible for creating happiness in your life. You can choose to simply react to the events you experience, allowing them to control your emotions and your life (like you're currently doing)...or you can choose to be happy in spite of the events you experience (like I do).

This is not a situation where I'm "deluding myself" that I'm happy based solely on my mindset; it's a situation where I've learned to control my own emotions and generate the ones I want to feel. Changing my mindset changes my emotions, because I've learned emotion regulation.

Do you really think my life has been all sunshine and roses? If I related to you the amount and depth of absolute {!#%@} I've been through in my life, you'd wonder how the incredible amount of negativity didn't cause me to blow my own head off. Deal with your issues; don't just dwell on them. YOU are the one in control of your own emotions. You just have to read the damn manual and learn to program your own brain.


See, the reason why we were having this whole issue in the first place is because I thought that living a life that was truly good and beautiful was claimed by others to be a life where you have a mental state that possesses no positive quality. In other words, nothing more than just the belief, attitude, and mindset of your life being good and beautiful anyway. Such a life, to me, is no way to live or be an artist. You said that it's about both positive and negative emotions, but that in the absence of the positive ones, the negative ones can be an alternative source to a good and beautiful life such as channeling these negative emotions into creating works of art. But I would need a state of mind that can replace the positive emotions.

My positive emotions possess that positive quality to them that I need to make my life truly good and beautiful. Thus, I would require a mindset that also possesses a positive quality to it as well. This would act as a replacement for my positive emotions so that a life filled with nothing but negative emotions (such as during my miserable struggles) could truly be a good and beautiful life for me. But if such a belief/mindset cannot possess a positive quality to it and it is nothing more than just a belief/mindset, then my positive emotions are truly the only things that can possess the positive quality needed to make my life and composing something truly good and beautiful.

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Re: We might have a new sense that has yet to be discovered

Postby Nikki Nyx » Wed Oct 11, 2017 7:26 pm

Omniverse wrote:See, the reason why we were having this whole issue in the first place is because I thought that living a life that was truly good and beautiful was claimed by others to be a life where you have a mental state that possesses no positive quality. In other words, nothing more than just the belief, attitude, and mindset of your life being good and beautiful anyway.
I think that the people who claimed that were omitting the positive emotions generated by their positive mindsets.

Omniverse wrote:Such a life, to me, is no way to live or be an artist. You said that it's about both positive and negative emotions, but that in the absence of the positive ones, the negative ones can be an alternative source to a good and beautiful life such as channeling these negative emotions into creating works of art. But I would need a state of mind that can replace the positive emotions.
Yes. Channeling negative emotions into creativity leads to positive emotions. It's a cathartic process similar to crying when you're sad, or punching a pillow when you're angry. Only much, much better, because it doesn't merely relieve the negative emotions; it actually changes them to positive ones.

Omniverse wrote:My positive emotions possess that positive quality to them that I need to make my life truly good and beautiful. Thus, I would require a mindset that also possesses a positive quality to it as well.
But that mindset can be as simple as, "I'm going to channel this negative emotion into creativity, which will both relieve it and produce positive emotions."

Omniverse wrote:This would act as a replacement for my positive emotions so that a life filled with nothing but negative emotions (such as during my miserable struggles) could truly be a good and beautiful life for me. But if such a belief/mindset cannot possess a positive quality to it and it is nothing more than just a belief/mindset, then my positive emotions are truly the only things that can possess the positive quality needed to make my life and composing something truly good and beautiful.
Ok. Here's how to work on your mindset:
  • Tell yourself that you are deserving of happiness...and believe it.
  • Analyze your negative emotions to discover their source (the event or person that prompted the negative emotions). This step can involve just thinking about it, or journaling to get your thoughts straight.
  • Use your reasoned judgment to formulate conclusions about the source, being brutally honest with yourself while deciding where the blame lies. Don't make excuses for yourself or anyone else. Pretend you're not involved, if you have to, and that you're making an objective judgment on someone else's behalf.
  • If you yourself are partially or wholly to blame, accept responsibility, forgive yourself, and make amends to others, if necessary. Understand that you're human, which means you will make mistakes. Correct them; don't beat yourself up repeatedly.
  • If someone else is to blame, communicate to them how their actions made you feel, if possible. Don't rant and rave; just calmly explain what they did and how it hurt you. If this isn't possible, then make the conscious decision to stop giving that person space in your brain, including refusing to interact with them, if needed.
  • This process of analysis should resolve the emotional conflict and provide you with closure on this particular source of negative emotions. Now, give yourself permission to move past it, to move into a new future that no longer includes it.
Once your mindset has had a makeover, your emotions will follow. But when you intellectually and emotionally cling to the traumas you've experienced, they will eventually define you and your life. You will forever be a self-proclaimed victim, helpless to help yourself, because you've convinced yourself that the source (event or person that prompted the negative emotion) has irrevocably damaged you.
What are the facts? Again and again and again-what are the facts? Shun wishful thinking, ignore divine revelation, forget what “the stars foretell,” avoid opinion, care not what the neighbors think, never mind the unguessable “verdict of history”--what are the facts, and to how many decimal places? You pilot always into an unknown future; facts are your single clue. Get the facts!
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Re: We might have a new sense that has yet to be discovered

Postby Omniverse » Wed Oct 11, 2017 7:33 pm

Nikki Nyx wrote:
Omniverse wrote:See, the reason why we were having this whole issue in the first place is because I thought that living a life that was truly good and beautiful was claimed by others to be a life where you have a mental state that possesses no positive quality. In other words, nothing more than just the belief, attitude, and mindset of your life being good and beautiful anyway.
I think that the people who claimed that were omitting the positive emotions generated by their positive mindsets.

Omniverse wrote:Such a life, to me, is no way to live or be an artist. You said that it's about both positive and negative emotions, but that in the absence of the positive ones, the negative ones can be an alternative source to a good and beautiful life such as channeling these negative emotions into creating works of art. But I would need a state of mind that can replace the positive emotions.
Yes. Channeling negative emotions into creativity leads to positive emotions. It's a cathartic process similar to crying when you're sad, or punching a pillow when you're angry. Only much, much better, because it doesn't merely relieve the negative emotions; it actually changes them to positive ones.

Omniverse wrote:My positive emotions possess that positive quality to them that I need to make my life truly good and beautiful. Thus, I would require a mindset that also possesses a positive quality to it as well.
But that mindset can be as simple as, "I'm going to channel this negative emotion into creativity, which will both relieve it and produce positive emotions."

Omniverse wrote:This would act as a replacement for my positive emotions so that a life filled with nothing but negative emotions (such as during my miserable struggles) could truly be a good and beautiful life for me. But if such a belief/mindset cannot possess a positive quality to it and it is nothing more than just a belief/mindset, then my positive emotions are truly the only things that can possess the positive quality needed to make my life and composing something truly good and beautiful.
Ok. Here's how to work on your mindset:
  • Tell yourself that you are deserving of happiness...and believe it.
  • Analyze your negative emotions to discover their source (the event or person that prompted the negative emotions). This step can involve just thinking about it, or journaling to get your thoughts straight.
  • Use your reasoned judgment to formulate conclusions about the source, being brutally honest with yourself while deciding where the blame lies. Don't make excuses for yourself or anyone else. Pretend you're not involved, if you have to, and that you're making an objective judgment on someone else's behalf.
  • If you yourself are partially or wholly to blame, accept responsibility, forgive yourself, and make amends to others, if necessary. Understand that you're human, which means you will make mistakes. Correct them; don't beat yourself up repeatedly.
  • If someone else is to blame, communicate to them how their actions made you feel, if possible. Don't rant and rave; just calmly explain what they did and how it hurt you. If this isn't possible, then make the conscious decision to stop giving that person space in your brain, including refusing to interact with them, if needed.
  • This process of analysis should resolve the emotional conflict and provide you with closure on this particular source of negative emotions. Now, give yourself permission to move past it, to move into a new future that no longer includes it.
Once your mindset has had a makeover, your emotions will follow. But when you intellectually and emotionally cling to the traumas you've experienced, they will eventually define you and your life. You will forever be a self-proclaimed victim, helpless to help yourself, because you've convinced yourself that the source (event or person that prompted the negative emotion) has irrevocably damaged you.


I already know that a positive mindset can produce positive emotions and that the release of negative emotions can also produce positive emotions. But I am talking about the situations I've been through where no positive mindset or anything else could produce a positive emotion during my miserable moments. In these types of situations, I would require a mindset that can possess the positive quality to replace my positive emotions. Remember, there is a big difference between definitions and qualities. Just because you, for example, define water to be inside an empty glass will not make a real quality of water to appear inside that glass. Therefore, if I am going to have a positive quality in my life that can replace my positive emotions, then it has to be a real positive quality and not just a matter of believing it is there when it's not.

The more, intense, and profound of this positive quality I have, then the more good and beautiful my life is. The less of it I have, then the less good and beautiful my life is perceived. The same rule applies to the negative quality. The more, intense, and profound of a negative quality I have in my life, then the more bad and horrible my life is. A genuinely positive or negative mindset/belief is NOT the same thing as a positive or negative quality. Let me try to make this more clear for you. You told me earlier that there were two types of value judgments: the emotional ones which would be the emotions themselves and our rational judgments. The emotional value judgments are the actual qualities of good and bad (positive and negative qualities). Since a positive emotion is always a good emotional value judgment, then a positive emotion is always a good quality. The same idea applies to negative emotions. However, rational value judgments themselves are just value judgments, but are not any real good or bad qualities.

I need an actual good quality in my life and I have noticed that this can only come about through my positive emotions. Without that good quality, then it is like I am being denied the sacred water of pure goodness I need in my life and that I am just simply defining water to be inside an empty glass when there is none. When we have the thought of something good in our lives, then that thought alone is like the thought of the color red, but no actual quality of red yet. But the moment that thought makes us feel a positive emotion, then that we are getting an actual quality of good value in our lives just as how visual information gets sent to our visual cortex and gives us the actual quality of red. The same idea applies to negative emotions giving our lives an actual quality of bad value.
Last edited by Omniverse on Thu Oct 12, 2017 12:39 am, edited 9 times in total.

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Re: We might have a new sense that has yet to be discovered

Postby Poodle » Wed Oct 11, 2017 9:27 pm

Omniverse wrote:..Therefore, if I am going to have a positive quality in my life that can replace my positive emotions, then it has to be a real positive quality and not just a matter of believing it is there when it's not. The more of this positive quality I have, then the more good and beautiful my life is. The less of it I have, then the less good and beautiful my life is perceived. The same rule applies to the negative quality. The more of a negative quality I have in my life, then the more bad and horrible my life is.

{!#%@} happens, and the more {!#%@} you throw around, the more inane you become. Is that what you're getting at?

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Re: We might have a new sense that has yet to be discovered

Postby Nikki Nyx » Thu Oct 12, 2017 2:08 am

Omniverse wrote:I already know...
Your response is why I'm done wasting my time. You persist in believing that your brain is different from everyone else's and works differently, that you're "special." You're not; you're just denying established neurology. If you cannot perform the process I described in my last post, then get some training. Find a therapist trained in Dialectical Behavior Therapy. You'll learn how to do it...unless you'd rather remain a self-pitying victim. Your choice. But I'm not interested in continuing this discussion any further. At this point, you're just repeating yourself with the same copypasta you've posted a hundred times.
What are the facts? Again and again and again-what are the facts? Shun wishful thinking, ignore divine revelation, forget what “the stars foretell,” avoid opinion, care not what the neighbors think, never mind the unguessable “verdict of history”--what are the facts, and to how many decimal places? You pilot always into an unknown future; facts are your single clue. Get the facts!
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Re: We might have a new sense that has yet to be discovered

Postby Omniverse » Thu Oct 12, 2017 2:14 am

Nikki Nyx wrote:
Omniverse wrote:I already know...
Your response is why I'm done wasting my time. You persist in believing that your brain is different from everyone else's and works differently, that you're "special." You're not; you're just denying established neurology. If you cannot perform the process I described in my last post, then get some training. Find a therapist trained in Dialectical Behavior Therapy. You'll learn how to do it...unless you'd rather remain a self-pitying victim. Your choice. But I'm not interested in continuing this discussion any further. At this point, you're just repeating yourself with the same copypasta you've posted a hundred times.


But did you even bother reading the context in which I've stated "I already know?" If you did, then you wouldn't have reacted the way you did just now. I have not been saying the same things. I have been wondering if a mindset alone in the absence of my positive emotions can possess a real good quality to it. This is different than what I've been saying before.

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Re: We might have a new sense that has yet to be discovered

Postby Nikki Nyx » Thu Oct 12, 2017 3:05 am

Omniverse wrote:But did you even bother reading the context in which I've stated "I already know?"
Yes.
Omniverse wrote:If you did, then you wouldn't have reacted the way you did just now.
Do you really believe you can predict my reactions to your posts? You can't, so don't presume.
Omniverse wrote:I have not been saying the same things.
Mainly, you have...for the past four months.
Omniverse wrote:I have been wondering if a mindset alone in the absence of my positive emotions can possess a real good quality to it. This is different than what I've been saying before.
As I said, get your mindset straight, and your positive emotions will follow. The appropriate mindset does not REPLACE emotions; it GENERATES them.
What are the facts? Again and again and again-what are the facts? Shun wishful thinking, ignore divine revelation, forget what “the stars foretell,” avoid opinion, care not what the neighbors think, never mind the unguessable “verdict of history”--what are the facts, and to how many decimal places? You pilot always into an unknown future; facts are your single clue. Get the facts!
—Lazarus Long, from Time Enough for Love, by Robert A. Heinlein

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Re: We might have a new sense that has yet to be discovered

Postby Omniverse » Thu Oct 12, 2017 3:17 am

Nikki Nyx wrote:
Omniverse wrote:But did you even bother reading the context in which I've stated "I already know?"
Yes.
Omniverse wrote:If you did, then you wouldn't have reacted the way you did just now.
Do you really believe you can predict my reactions to your posts? You can't, so don't presume.
Omniverse wrote:I have not been saying the same things.
Mainly, you have...for the past four months.
Omniverse wrote:I have been wondering if a mindset alone in the absence of my positive emotions can possess a real good quality to it. This is different than what I've been saying before.
As I said, get your mindset straight, and your positive emotions will follow. The appropriate mindset does not REPLACE emotions; it GENERATES them.


You are right. Positive emotions do follow from a positive mindset. But you said that, even if I had no positive emotions whatsoever and instead had negative emotions such as misery (an example of this being during those miserable moments where nothing I did could produce a positive emotion), that, somehow, a positive mindset alone could replace my positive emotions. You said that, even though I might not have positive emotions, that negative emotions can still make my life something good and beautiful providing I had the right mindset. I just don't think that is possible because I don't think a positive mindset can possess a positive quality to it just as how the thought of the color red is not any real quality of red, but a mere notion of red. Or, maybe, a positive mindset can somehow possess a real positive quality to it that I am unaware of that I have yet to obtain somehow.

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Re: We might have a new sense that has yet to be discovered

Postby Nikki Nyx » Thu Oct 12, 2017 3:22 pm

Omniverse wrote:You are right. Positive emotions do follow from a positive mindset. But you said that, even if I had no positive emotions whatsoever and instead had negative emotions such as misery (an example of this being during those miserable moments where nothing I did could produce a positive emotion), that, somehow, a positive mindset alone could replace my positive emotions.
No, I didn't. I clearly said, right in the part you quoted, that mindset does not REPLACE emotions; it GENERATES them. See why I don't what to bother with this? You don't read what I'm writing, so there's no point. Here's my quote:
As I said, get your mindset straight, and your positive emotions will follow. The appropriate mindset does not REPLACE emotions; it GENERATES them.


Omniverse wrote:You said that, even though I might not have positive emotions, that negative emotions can still make my life something good and beautiful providing I had the right mindset.
No, I didn't. You're not listening. Again, for the thousandth time, your mindset can change negative emotions to positive ones.

Omniverse wrote:I just don't think that is possible because I don't think a positive mindset can possess a positive quality to it just as how the thought of the color red is not any real quality of red, but a mere notion of red. Or, maybe, a positive mindset can somehow possess a real positive quality to it that I am unaware of that I have yet to obtain somehow.
You're caught up in your inappropriate analogies. Other than its specific light wavelength, "red" doesn't have any qualities unless YOU ascribe them in your mind.
What are the facts? Again and again and again-what are the facts? Shun wishful thinking, ignore divine revelation, forget what “the stars foretell,” avoid opinion, care not what the neighbors think, never mind the unguessable “verdict of history”--what are the facts, and to how many decimal places? You pilot always into an unknown future; facts are your single clue. Get the facts!
—Lazarus Long, from Time Enough for Love, by Robert A. Heinlein

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Re: We might have a new sense that has yet to be discovered

Postby Poodle » Thu Oct 12, 2017 4:09 pm

I can't wait for him to get on to "If a tree falls in the middle of a forest ...".

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Re: We might have a new sense that has yet to be discovered

Postby Omniverse » Thu Oct 12, 2017 5:41 pm

Nikki Nyx wrote:
Omniverse wrote:You are right. Positive emotions do follow from a positive mindset. But you said that, even if I had no positive emotions whatsoever and instead had negative emotions such as misery (an example of this being during those miserable moments where nothing I did could produce a positive emotion), that, somehow, a positive mindset alone could replace my positive emotions.
No, I didn't. I clearly said, right in the part you quoted, that mindset does not REPLACE emotions; it GENERATES them. See why I don't what to bother with this? You don't read what I'm writing, so there's no point. Here's my quote:
As I said, get your mindset straight, and your positive emotions will follow. The appropriate mindset does not REPLACE emotions; it GENERATES them.


Omniverse wrote:You said that, even though I might not have positive emotions, that negative emotions can still make my life something good and beautiful providing I had the right mindset.
No, I didn't. You're not listening. Again, for the thousandth time, your mindset can change negative emotions to positive ones.

Omniverse wrote:I just don't think that is possible because I don't think a positive mindset can possess a positive quality to it just as how the thought of the color red is not any real quality of red, but a mere notion of red. Or, maybe, a positive mindset can somehow possess a real positive quality to it that I am unaware of that I have yet to obtain somehow.
You're caught up in your inappropriate analogies. Other than its specific light wavelength, "red" doesn't have any qualities unless YOU ascribe them in your mind.


Edit: I realize you were saying that you could actually change negative emotions into positive ones. How is that even possible? How can a negative emotion become a positive one? If you were saying that a positive mindset could produce positive emotions, then I already understand this. This is not what I am talking about here.

No, I didn't. You're not listening. Again, for the thousandth time, your mindset can change negative emotions to positive ones.


If this is what you were saying all along, then why did you object to my whole idea that negative emotions are no way to live or be an artist? I said that positive emotions are the only things that could truly make our lives and artistic endeavors good and beautiful and you objected to this as though somehow implying that a positive mindset could replace positive emotions during moments where you had nothing but negative emotions and no positive emotions. You acted as though a positive mindset could replace the good value and beauty that our positive emotions could offer our lives providing, again, that you had negative emotions because you said that having no emotions at all is truly no way to live or be an artist. Lastly, as for what I said in regards to a quality of red, I meant actually visualizing red. When you visualize the color red, then that is an actual quality of red in your life. If you just had the thought of red, then that thought itself is not any real quality of red in your life.
Last edited by Omniverse on Thu Oct 12, 2017 6:04 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: We might have a new sense that has yet to be discovered

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Thu Oct 12, 2017 5:47 pm

derp.
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Re: We might have a new sense that has yet to be discovered

Postby Nikki Nyx » Thu Oct 12, 2017 6:28 pm

Omniverse wrote:I realize you were saying that you could actually change negative emotions into positive ones. How is that even possible? How can a negative emotion become a positive one?
If you had read what I wrote to you, you'd already know my answer, since I already explained two methods of doing exactly this: one via creativity, and the other via neural plasticity. To reiterate:
• An artist can channel negative emotions into a creative endeavor. Thus, he relieves the negative emotions by expressing them in his art, and the process generates positive emotions: relief, a sense of accomplishment, pride, etc.
• Neural plasticity means that you can affect your emotions through your behavior. Start simply by forcing a smile (and holding it) when you're feeling negative. Smiling causes your brain to produce dopamine, endorphins, and seratonin...even if it's a fake smile. You can actually feel your mood changing.
—————
Omniverse wrote:If this is what you were saying all along, then why did you object to my whole idea that negative emotions are no way to live or be an artist?
Because you insist on just giving up because you're feeling negative emotions! You refuse to accept established neurology...that YOU can change those emotions. Your emotions are not in control of you unless you let them.
—————
Omniverse wrote:I said that positive emotions are the only things that could truly make our lives and artistic endeavors good and beautiful and you objected to this as though somehow implying that a positive mindset could replace positive emotions during moments where you had nothing but negative emotions and no positive emotions.
I never implied or stated any such thing! YOU'RE NOT READING MY POSTS. I never said "replace."
Nikki Nyx wrote:I clearly said, right in the part you quoted, that mindset does not REPLACE emotions; it GENERATES them. See why I don't what to bother with this? You don't read what I'm writing, so there's no point.
How many times do I have to say the same exact thing before you comprehend it?
—————
Omniverse wrote:You acted as though a positive mindset could replace the good value and beauty that our positive emotions could offer our lives providing, again, that you had negative emotions because you said that having no emotions at all is truly no way to live or be an artist.
YOU'RE NOT READING MY POSTS. I've corrected you on this multiple times already.
Nikki Nyx wrote:As I said, get your mindset straight, and your positive emotions will follow. The appropriate mindset does not REPLACE emotions; it GENERATES them.
This is why I don't want to bother with you. Trying to have a discussion with you is futile, because you expect me to fully read paragraphs and paragraphs of your idea, but you don't read my responses.
—————
Omniverse wrote:Lastly, as for what I said in regards to a quality of red, I meant actually visualizing red. When you visualize the color red, then that is an actual quality of red in your life. If you just had the thought of red, then that thought itself is not any real quality of red in your life.
It's the same thing. When you think of "red," you're obviously visualizing it, since it's a visual stimulus. And your analogy is still flawed.
—————
STOP putting words in my mouth. I've clearly stated a number of concepts multiple times, yet you persist in either not reading my comments, or misconstruing them so horribly that I wonder whether you have reading comprehension problems.

I'm tired of having to repeat the same things over and over again because you're not reading and understanding what I write. Go back and reread my posts a sentence at a time if you have to, then stop and think about the meaning of what I'm saying instead of making inane assumptions.
What are the facts? Again and again and again-what are the facts? Shun wishful thinking, ignore divine revelation, forget what “the stars foretell,” avoid opinion, care not what the neighbors think, never mind the unguessable “verdict of history”--what are the facts, and to how many decimal places? You pilot always into an unknown future; facts are your single clue. Get the facts!
—Lazarus Long, from Time Enough for Love, by Robert A. Heinlein

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Re: We might have a new sense that has yet to be discovered

Postby Omniverse » Thu Oct 12, 2017 6:33 pm

Nikki Nyx wrote:
Omniverse wrote:I realize you were saying that you could actually change negative emotions into positive ones. How is that even possible? How can a negative emotion become a positive one?
If you had read what I wrote to you, you'd already know my answer, since I already explained two methods of doing exactly this: one via creativity, and the other via neural plasticity. To reiterate:
• An artist can channel negative emotions into a creative endeavor. Thus, he relieves the negative emotions by expressing them in his art, and the process generates positive emotions: relief, a sense of accomplishment, pride, etc.
• Neural plasticity means that you can affect your emotions through your behavior. Start simply by forcing a smile (and holding it) when you're feeling negative. Smiling causes your brain to produce dopamine, endorphins, and seratonin...even if it's a fake smile. You can actually feel your mood changing.
—————
Omniverse wrote:If this is what you were saying all along, then why did you object to my whole idea that negative emotions are no way to live or be an artist?
Because you insist on just giving up because you're feeling negative emotions! You refuse to accept established neurology...that YOU can change those emotions. Your emotions are not in control of you unless you let them.
—————
Omniverse wrote:I said that positive emotions are the only things that could truly make our lives and artistic endeavors good and beautiful and you objected to this as though somehow implying that a positive mindset could replace positive emotions during moments where you had nothing but negative emotions and no positive emotions.
I never implied or stated any such thing! YOU'RE NOT READING MY POSTS. I never said "replace."
Nikki Nyx wrote:I clearly said, right in the part you quoted, that mindset does not REPLACE emotions; it GENERATES them. See why I don't what to bother with this? You don't read what I'm writing, so there's no point.
How many times do I have to say the same exact thing before you comprehend it?
—————
Omniverse wrote:You acted as though a positive mindset could replace the good value and beauty that our positive emotions could offer our lives providing, again, that you had negative emotions because you said that having no emotions at all is truly no way to live or be an artist.
YOU'RE NOT READING MY POSTS. I've corrected you on this multiple times already.
Nikki Nyx wrote:As I said, get your mindset straight, and your positive emotions will follow. The appropriate mindset does not REPLACE emotions; it GENERATES them.
This is why I don't want to bother with you. Trying to have a discussion with you is futile, because you expect me to fully read paragraphs and paragraphs of your idea, but you don't read my responses.
—————
Omniverse wrote:Lastly, as for what I said in regards to a quality of red, I meant actually visualizing red. When you visualize the color red, then that is an actual quality of red in your life. If you just had the thought of red, then that thought itself is not any real quality of red in your life.
It's the same thing. When you think of "red," you're obviously visualizing it, since it's a visual stimulus. And your analogy is still flawed.
—————
STOP putting words in my mouth. I've clearly stated a number of concepts multiple times, yet you persist in either not reading my comments, or misconstruing them so horribly that I wonder whether you have reading comprehension problems.

I'm tired of having to repeat the same things over and over again because you're not reading and understanding what I write. Go back and reread my posts a sentence at a time if you have to, then stop and think about the meaning of what I'm saying instead of making inane assumptions.

First off, this is the most important thing I have to say here:

The biochemical emotions are forms of motivation (drive). For example, when you feel sexually aroused, that is a sex drive. But when you don't feel sexually aroused and having the thought of being sexually aroused cannot put you back into that sexually aroused state, then having the thought of being sexually aroused would just be empty words. They would not give you any sex drive. That is why our rational value judgments cannot be any real emotions (drive/motivation) while it can only be our biochemical emotions which are the real emotions (drive/motivation).

The same idea applies to value judgments. Our rational value judgments are not any real value judgments and it can only be our biochemical emotions which are the real value judgments. People are mistaking their rational value judgements as being the real emotions and real value judgments when it was really their biochemical emotions all along which were the real emotions and the real value judgments. From here, I will explain some more things and then present part 1 which is a direct response to your post:

There is a positive emotional state, there is a negative emotional state, and then there is a no emotional state (our rational value judgments) since there is positive, negative, and neutral. An example of this would be a positive charge, a negative charge, and a neutral (no) charge. From there, there is good, bad, and neutral (neither good nor bad). A positive emotional state is a good value judgment, a negative emotional state is a bad value judgment, and a no emotional state (our rational value judgments) would have to be no real value judgments at all. Therefore, our rational value judgments are not real value judgments which means they give our lives no real value while the only real value judgments are the emotions. So, it can only be our emotions that give our lives real good and bad value. From here, let me quote what I said earlier since what I say follows from this:

All I am saying here is that, no matter how absurd it seems and no matter what situation, positive emotions are always value judgments of good value, negative emotions are always value judgments of bad value, and our rational value judgments are always no real value judgments at all. I am convinced of this based upon my own personal experience because, during my blissful states, I have used my rational value judgments in judging things as horrible and disgusting, but none of that mattered to me. My life was still nothing but good during that blissful state and there was no real horrible and disgusting value in my life. The same idea applies to being in a negative emotional state and judging things in my life as good and beautiful. None of that mattered to me either and there was no real good and beautiful value in my life either. I could tell that these rational value judgments were nothing more than empty words in my life.


Audio signals get sent to the audio cortex and that is how you hear actual sound. Visual signals get sent to the visual cortex and that is how you see actual colors and other objects. Likewise, thoughts of value judgments send signals to the emotional parts of our brains and it is through our emotions that we are able to perceive real value. This is just how our brains are set up to work and having value in our lives would, thus, be no different. But the audio and visual signals themselves are not any real sight or hearing just as how thoughts of value themselves in our lives cannot allow us to perceive any real value. We have the rational, thinking cortex and then we have the emotional part of our brains. This is a fact since it is just neuroscience. An example of one of these emotional parts would be what was pointed out in that food and reward study which would be the area of the brain known as the Nucleus Accumbens.

If you had the thought of it being a lovely and good day to be alive, then that thought would send the signal to your Nucleus Accumbens which would allow you to perceive that good value that you thought of. The same idea applies to thoughts of bad value sending the signal to make us feel negative emotions. Also, how you think is how you will feel. So, if you had the thought of the most profoundly beautiful good value in your life such as the thought of nature, then that would send a signal to make you feel a positive emotion that would literally possess that quality. You would be perceiving that profound, naturalistic beauty. It would be something beautiful beyond words since that is what our positive emotions are anyway. They are good value judgments that go beyond words as I said before.

It is like a good value judgment being spoken from a higher, heavenly realm rather than a good value judgment which is nothing but an empty word and no real value judgment at all. According to the spiritual version of my worldview, it would be like god's holy light within us as I said before. Without his holy light, then our lives would just be empty words of good values. In addition, the life essence of anime and video game characters enters us as well through our positive emotions. Again, this is just a metaphor. It is as though their very personality and presence takes on a whole new form besides an image of that character in your mind. It takes on the form of sheer goodness itself. It is like a divine, powerful, and profound presence and it is our thoughts that make that happen. Drugs could make that happen, too. Although, I would never do drugs knowing the harm they would cause me. So, I would just be having the idea of these drugs being bad in my mind and making a wise decision accordingly without actually perceiving it as being a bad thing since I felt no negative emotion from that idea.

Speaking of which, the absolute worst form of negative emotions in my life were, like I said, those miserable states. This is due to the type of thought eliciting these miserable states. They were the most abnormal and unhealthy thoughts. Had my misery been induced by normal and healthy thoughts such as the idea that I did not get my favorite movie or video game, then the misery would take on a whole new form. It would take on a completely, normal, and healthy state that would not possess the profound and powerful horrendous quality that those miserable states possessed. In short, the inner light and the inner darkness take on different forms, atmospheres, and personalities to make our lives good, beautiful, bad, and horrible in various ways. Our thoughts themselves are the keys to a conscious paradise and hell in our lives. But they, themselves, are just the keys and cannot be any conscious state of hell or paradise. They, themselves, cannot be any real state of joy, misery, suffering, love, hate, etc. and are only just the ideas of those things.

One might try to counter my argument by saying that we can personally define emotions as being our rational value judgments since the word emotion is just a label that we can simply apply to our rational value judgments, but there is a huge difference between definitions and reality. There is a label version of emotions which is just the word emotions and then there is the reality version of emotions which are the actual emotions just as how there is the label version of value judgments versus the reality version of value judgments. I think it is reality that our biochemical emotions are the real emotions and that they are the real value judgments to our lives. I will give another example here. In that food and reward study, our positive emotions being wanting and liking is a reality and not just a label being put upon them.

To conclude this description, if you were to ask as many people as you can in this world if they think that their positive emotions are a form of wanting and liking, then I bet most of them would say "no." This shows that people are having a false idea of their positive emotions. They think that they are not any form of wanting and liking which also means they think that they are not any real good value judgment either. This leads me to conclude that they are also having a false idea about their rational value judgments as well. They think that they are a real form of wanting and liking and they think they are real value judgments when they never were. In short, I think humanity has it all backwards. They would tell me that I have it backwards. But I don't think this is the case.

Part 1: So, you admit that a positive mindset cannot replace the good value and beauty that our positive emotions offer our lives. This would have to mean that one's life cannot hold any real good value and beauty without his/her positive emotions since positive emotions are the only things that possess the real positive quality necessary to give our lives real good value and beauty while a positive mindset alone independent of our emotional states is only a positive mindset, but does not possess any real positive quality to it to give our lives any real good value and beauty. Positive mindsets alone would, therefore, just be tools to get us to a place where we can feel positive emotions again to truly make our lives good and beautiful again. Lastly, I do take the time to read and comprehend what you've written. I just think we have a misunderstanding going on here is all.

Let's pretend that I was put in a situation where I could only live the entirety of my life in a miserable state (negative emotion) and that nothing I did could ever produce any positive emotion at all. I simply do not agree that a positive mindset in such a situation would ever give my life any real good values. I do not think that this positive mindset could ever act as a replacement for all the good value, beauty, and joys I have had through my positive emotions and it appears you agree with this as well. It appears you agree that, not even in a single instance would my life have any real good values as long as I do not have my positive emotions. Like I said, in order for any given instance to somehow bring my life real good value in the absence of my positive emotions such as during a state of misery, then that positive mindset would have to possess a real positive quality to it like how my positive emotions possess the real positive quality to them.

Now, it is a fact that our brains work in such a way that visual information alone does not allow us to visualize colors and that, only once this visual information gets sent to the visual cortex, are we able to visualize colors. The same thing applies to audio information. In turn, the same thing applies to other mental faculties as well. From there, the same thing would also have to apply to thoughts and emotions. Thoughts of good or bad value in our lives are nothing more than just information. They do not give our lives any real good or bad value. It is only once they make us feel a positive or negative emotion that we are "visualizing," so to speak, the good and bad value in our lives just as how visual information allows us to visualize colors. As you can see here, this is how our brains work. So, I don't see why you object to my whole idea that it can only be our emotions that can give our lives real good or bad value providing this is how our brains work.

Edit: I have now created a book which is 74 pages long. It explains everything in regards to my worldview and it also explains new things in regards to my worldview. It is not a book I am selling. Rather, it is a book you can read anytime. I will give you the links:

Short Summary: http://fav.me/dbsuczh
Book Cover: http://fav.me/dbsosib
Part 1: http://fav.me/dbpycai
Part 2: http://fav.me/dbq9g03
Part 3: http://fav.me/dbqxucc
Part 4: http://fav.me/dbqxud2
Last edited by Omniverse on Tue Nov 07, 2017 3:39 pm, edited 142 times in total.

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Re: We might have a new sense that has yet to be discovered

Postby Poodle » Thu Oct 12, 2017 9:48 pm

Incredible logic.

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Re: We might have a new sense that has yet to be discovered

Postby Matthew Ellard » Thu Oct 12, 2017 10:17 pm

Poodle wrote:Incredible logic.


More so, when you know he copies his wall of text from pre-prepared cribs he wrote five years ago, that he downloaded from a book by Immanuel Kant. "Observations on the Feeling of the Beautiful and Sublime"
:D

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Re: We might have a new sense that has yet to be discovered

Postby Gord » Fri Oct 13, 2017 2:49 am

Gawdzilla Sama wrote:
Gord wrote:My sense of burflap is tingling.

Calamine lotion.

Ohhhh, I thought it was camel9 lotion! Well that explains everything!
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Re: We might have a new sense that has yet to be discovered

Postby Gawdzilla Sama » Fri Oct 13, 2017 10:56 am

Gord wrote:
Gawdzilla Sama wrote:
Gord wrote:My sense of burflap is tingling.

Calamine lotion.

Ohhhh, I thought it was camel9 lotion! Well that explains everything!

Nobody got time for your cameltoe.
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Re: We might have a new sense that has yet to be discovered

Postby Gord » Sat Oct 14, 2017 3:26 am

Gawdzilla Sama wrote:
Gord wrote:
Gawdzilla Sama wrote:
Gord wrote:My sense of burflap is tingling.

Calamine lotion.

Ohhhh, I thought it was camel9 lotion! Well that explains everything!

Nobody got time for your cameltoe.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zGxwbhkDjZM
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