It's the Donnydämmerung! (new Trump thread)

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Re: It's the Donnydämmerung! (new Trump thread)

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Wed Sep 13, 2017 12:13 pm

three healthcare updates, the first speaking to the gulf between more conservative Dems and their "moderate" Republicans talking partners, the second on "repeal & replace" derangement syndrome, and the third showing Senate process on the Chip program extension:

"Obamacare Stabilization Talks Go Awry As GOPers Demand Benefits Rollbacks"

"Republicans Claim That Their New Plan to Repeal Obamacare Is a Moderate Compromise. LOL." - by the way, "principled" Trump critic Jeff Flake has signed on to this new effort to gut American healthcare - and the WH, Cruz and others say that, like a zombie, repeal & replace efforts continue

"Senate Finance leaders announce 5-year CHIP deal"
. . . I mean Negative Capability, that is, when a man is capable of being in uncertainties, mysteries, doubts, without any irritable reaching after fact and reason—Coleridge, for instance, would let go by a fine isolated verisimilitude caught from the Penetralium of mystery, from being incapable of remaining content with half-knowledge. - John Keats, 1817

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Re: It's the Donnydämmerung! (new Trump thread)

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Wed Sep 13, 2017 12:24 pm

according to Democratic polling, the Democrats continue to flounder ineffectually in offering an alternative to Trump - and this goes for the Bernie wing as much as the party's Clintonian right wing
. . . I mean Negative Capability, that is, when a man is capable of being in uncertainties, mysteries, doubts, without any irritable reaching after fact and reason—Coleridge, for instance, would let go by a fine isolated verisimilitude caught from the Penetralium of mystery, from being incapable of remaining content with half-knowledge. - John Keats, 1817

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Re: It's the Donnydämmerung! (new Trump thread)

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Wed Sep 13, 2017 12:48 pm



This stuck out at me:

The staffer confirmed that Republicans are pushing for the weakening of Obamacare’s essential health benefits rule, particularly the maternity care mandate.


Republicans claim to be pro-life, why would you cut the maternity care mandate? Don't they want healthy mothers and babies? Or, is this just rhetorical clap trap that they spin to their followers?

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Re: It's the Donnydämmerung! (new Trump thread)

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Wed Sep 13, 2017 1:09 pm

They cannot accept defeat: even "stabilization" efforts are, for moderate GOPers, a pretext to attack Obamacare. There is scant, if any, common ground "across the aisle" on this.
. . . I mean Negative Capability, that is, when a man is capable of being in uncertainties, mysteries, doubts, without any irritable reaching after fact and reason—Coleridge, for instance, would let go by a fine isolated verisimilitude caught from the Penetralium of mystery, from being incapable of remaining content with half-knowledge. - John Keats, 1817

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Re: It's the Donnydämmerung! (new Trump thread)

Postby Upton_O_Goode » Wed Sep 13, 2017 3:20 pm

Hillary: God's finest gift to the GOP.

Doesn't the woman ever GET it? She sounds like an old-fashioned schoolmarm, constantly lecturing and haranguing people for their faults. She's sucking up all the oxygen in the room at the moment. Democrats, you MUST move on! Start anywhere. Start with Andrew Cuomo if necessary, but get some new blood circulating.
"Reserve a part of your wrath ; you have not seen the worst yet. You suppose that this war has been a criminal blunder and an exceptional horror ; you imagine that before long reason will prevail, and all these inferior people that govern the world will be swept aside, and your own party will reform everything and remain always in office. You are mistaken."

George Santayana, "Tipperary" (1918)

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Re: It's the Donnydämmerung! (new Trump thread)

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Wed Sep 13, 2017 3:32 pm

Upton_O_Goode wrote:Hillary: God's finest gift to the GOP.

Doesn't the woman ever GET it? She sounds like an old-fashioned schoolmarm, constantly lecturing and haranguing people for their faults. She's sucking up all the oxygen in the room at the moment. Democrats, you MUST move on! Start anywhere. Start with Andrew Cuomo if necessary, but get some new blood circulating.

Right state, way wrong politician. Kirsten Gillibrand.
. . . I mean Negative Capability, that is, when a man is capable of being in uncertainties, mysteries, doubts, without any irritable reaching after fact and reason—Coleridge, for instance, would let go by a fine isolated verisimilitude caught from the Penetralium of mystery, from being incapable of remaining content with half-knowledge. - John Keats, 1817

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Re: It's the Donnydämmerung! (new Trump thread)

Postby scrmbldggs » Wed Sep 13, 2017 3:33 pm

:hmm: Now there's a preexisting condition one would no longer want to cover.


Here's what Paul Ryan thinks about all others...

.

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Re: It's the Donnydämmerung! (new Trump thread)

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Wed Sep 13, 2017 4:24 pm

scrmbldggs wrote::hmm: Now there's a preexisting condition one would no longer want to cover.


Here's what Paul Ryan thinks about all others...



Maybe Blake will chime in on that one...

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Re: It's the Donnydämmerung! (new Trump thread)

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Wed Sep 13, 2017 4:25 pm

Upton_O_Goode wrote:Hillary: God's finest gift to the GOP.

Doesn't the woman ever GET it? She sounds like an old-fashioned schoolmarm, constantly lecturing and haranguing people for their faults. She's sucking up all the oxygen in the room at the moment. Democrats, you MUST move on! Start anywhere. Start with Andrew Cuomo if necessary, but get some new blood circulating.


The best thing I've seen out of all the pieces written about the book is that no one thinks she is running again.

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Re: It's the Donnydämmerung! (new Trump thread)

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Wed Sep 13, 2017 4:32 pm

. . . I mean Negative Capability, that is, when a man is capable of being in uncertainties, mysteries, doubts, without any irritable reaching after fact and reason—Coleridge, for instance, would let go by a fine isolated verisimilitude caught from the Penetralium of mystery, from being incapable of remaining content with half-knowledge. - John Keats, 1817

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Re: It's the Donnydämmerung! (new Trump thread)

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Wed Sep 13, 2017 4:45 pm

According to The Hill, conservative Trump critic Jeff Flake - who went so far as to write a book to bolster his presidential case - is in free fall in AZ polling - vs both the far-right loon endorsed by Trump and the likely 2018 Dem nominee for Senate.
. . . I mean Negative Capability, that is, when a man is capable of being in uncertainties, mysteries, doubts, without any irritable reaching after fact and reason—Coleridge, for instance, would let go by a fine isolated verisimilitude caught from the Penetralium of mystery, from being incapable of remaining content with half-knowledge. - John Keats, 1817

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Re: It's the Donnydämmerung! (new Trump thread)

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Wed Sep 13, 2017 4:49 pm

Statistical Mechanic wrote:Why there is a thing called Gorsuch


It's one of the worst outcomes from the election, perhaps the worst so far. I truly dread the thought of him getting a second term, that damage could last for decades.

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Re: It's the Donnydämmerung! (new Trump thread)

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Wed Sep 13, 2017 4:50 pm

Kimmel: “I honestly don’t think it was Ted Cruz, I don’t think Ted Cruz looks at porn. Ted Cruz masturbates to pictures of poor people without health care.”
. . . I mean Negative Capability, that is, when a man is capable of being in uncertainties, mysteries, doubts, without any irritable reaching after fact and reason—Coleridge, for instance, would let go by a fine isolated verisimilitude caught from the Penetralium of mystery, from being incapable of remaining content with half-knowledge. - John Keats, 1817

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Re: It's the Donnydämmerung! (new Trump thread)

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Wed Sep 13, 2017 4:52 pm

:rotfl:

:rotfl:

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Re: It's the Donnydämmerung! (new Trump thread)

Postby Upton_O_Goode » Wed Sep 13, 2017 4:54 pm

scrmbldggs wrote::hmm: Now there's a preexisting condition one would no longer want to cover.


Here's what Paul Ryan thinks about all others...



Just for clarity, the poster says "60,000 Reichsmarks. That's what this hereditary illness costs the country over a lifetime. Your money is also a national heritage. Read New Nation, a monthly publication of the NSDAP Office of Racial Policy."
"Reserve a part of your wrath ; you have not seen the worst yet. You suppose that this war has been a criminal blunder and an exceptional horror ; you imagine that before long reason will prevail, and all these inferior people that govern the world will be swept aside, and your own party will reform everything and remain always in office. You are mistaken."

George Santayana, "Tipperary" (1918)

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Re: It's the Donnydämmerung! (new Trump thread)

Postby scrmbldggs » Wed Sep 13, 2017 5:18 pm

:no:


For "Your money is also a national heritage." run "[Volksgenosse] das ist auch Dein Geld" through the translator. You'll get "...that is also your money".
.

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Re: It's the Donnydämmerung! (new Trump thread)

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Wed Sep 13, 2017 6:50 pm


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Re: It's the Donnydämmerung! (new Trump thread)

Postby scrmbldggs » Wed Sep 13, 2017 7:04 pm

Another member just posted this sickening outcome of the recent incitements by Rump and fellow travelers. :(
.

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Re: It's the Donnydämmerung! (new Trump thread)

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Wed Sep 13, 2017 7:11 pm

scrmbldggs wrote:Another member just posted this sickening outcome of the recent incitements by Rump and fellow travelers. :(



I read that yesterday and meant to post something on it, thanks for adding that story.

It's like the country has lost its friggin' mind.

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Re: It's the Donnydämmerung! (new Trump thread)

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Wed Sep 13, 2017 7:18 pm

Jeffk 1970 wrote:Proud to be an Okie today. Well, I'm not really an Okie but I do live here:

https://m.dailykos.com/stories/2017/9/12/1698074/-OOOOk-lahoma-where-the-Democratic-pickups-come-sweeping-down-the-plain?detail=emaildkre2

You're an Okie. :) I was going to ask you about this but I lost the link to what I read! LOL
. . . I mean Negative Capability, that is, when a man is capable of being in uncertainties, mysteries, doubts, without any irritable reaching after fact and reason—Coleridge, for instance, would let go by a fine isolated verisimilitude caught from the Penetralium of mystery, from being incapable of remaining content with half-knowledge. - John Keats, 1817

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Re: It's the Donnydämmerung! (new Trump thread)

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Wed Sep 13, 2017 7:22 pm

Statistical Mechanic wrote:
Jeffk 1970 wrote:Proud to be an Okie today. Well, I'm not really an Okie but I do live here:

https://m.dailykos.com/stories/2017/9/12/1698074/-OOOOk-lahoma-where-the-Democratic-pickups-come-sweeping-down-the-plain?detail=emaildkre2

You're an Okie. :) I was going to ask you about this but I lost the link to what I read! LOL


It's really surprising me, how well Democrats are doing in this state. It gives me some hope that the people in this state can actually learn a lesson.

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Re: It's the Donnydämmerung! (new Trump thread)

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Wed Sep 13, 2017 7:23 pm

Jeffk 1970 wrote:
Statistical Mechanic wrote:
Jeffk 1970 wrote:Proud to be an Okie today. Well, I'm not really an Okie but I do live here:

https://m.dailykos.com/stories/2017/9/12/1698074/-OOOOk-lahoma-where-the-Democratic-pickups-come-sweeping-down-the-plain?detail=emaildkre2

You're an Okie. :) I was going to ask you about this but I lost the link to what I read! LOL


It's really surprising me, how well Democrats are doing in this state. It gives me some hope that the people in this state can actually learn a lesson.



AFAIK none of this has occurred by Trump bashing. The DNC could learn a few things from that.

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Re: It's the Donnydämmerung! (new Trump thread)

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Wed Sep 13, 2017 8:23 pm

Makes sense. In fact, SNL, Seth Myers, ragging on Trump with my friends, hell, this thread all remind me of this Peter Arno cartoon from the '30s, more or less, give or take:

Image

Let's go to the Trans-Lux and hiss Roosevelt!

Not that we are the super rich (ha!), nor that Trump is FDR (by a long shot) - but the uncomfortable commonality that struck me is the regular celebration of ineffectual opposition and wallowing in being right. We haven't cracked the nut yet.
. . . I mean Negative Capability, that is, when a man is capable of being in uncertainties, mysteries, doubts, without any irritable reaching after fact and reason—Coleridge, for instance, would let go by a fine isolated verisimilitude caught from the Penetralium of mystery, from being incapable of remaining content with half-knowledge. - John Keats, 1817

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Re: It's the Donnydämmerung! (new Trump thread)

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Wed Sep 13, 2017 8:39 pm

On this, Rand Paul has IMO the better argument. Against both Obama and Trump. ("Heroic" John McCain opposed the Paul amendment, of course. War without end.)
. . . I mean Negative Capability, that is, when a man is capable of being in uncertainties, mysteries, doubts, without any irritable reaching after fact and reason—Coleridge, for instance, would let go by a fine isolated verisimilitude caught from the Penetralium of mystery, from being incapable of remaining content with half-knowledge. - John Keats, 1817

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Re: It's the Donnydämmerung! (new Trump thread)

Postby Upton_O_Goode » Wed Sep 13, 2017 9:39 pm

Statistical Mechanic wrote:Makes sense. In fact, SNL, Seth Myers, ragging on Trump with my friends, hell, this thread all remind me of this Peter Arno cartoon from the '30s, more or less, give or take:

Image

Let's go to the Trans-Lux and hiss Roosevelt!

Not that we are the super rich (ha!), nor that Trump is FDR (by a long shot) - but the uncomfortable commonality that struck me is the regular celebration of ineffectual opposition and wallowing in being right. We haven't cracked the nut yet.


And, if Trump continues to be conciliatory toward the Democrats (flattering them today to get them to vote for his tax reform, which he says won't cut taxes for the wealthy), we may start hearing it said about him, as it was about Roosevelt, "We love him for the enemies he has made." Enemies like... oh, I don't know...Ann Coulter, maybe.

But let's wait until we hear him use the phrase "malefactors of great wealth." It would sound hollow, but FDR was also a man of great wealth, and he used it.
"Reserve a part of your wrath ; you have not seen the worst yet. You suppose that this war has been a criminal blunder and an exceptional horror ; you imagine that before long reason will prevail, and all these inferior people that govern the world will be swept aside, and your own party will reform everything and remain always in office. You are mistaken."

George Santayana, "Tipperary" (1918)

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Re: It's the Donnydämmerung! (new Trump thread)

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Wed Sep 13, 2017 9:42 pm

Upton_O_Goode wrote:FDR was also a man of great wealth, and he used it.

There's a very good self-perception which FDR is said to have had: he remarked that the opposition of the wealthy to his presidency during the Great Depression was akin to the man who fell into a lake - and, after being rescued by a helpful friend, berated his friend for failing to retrieve also the man's hat.
. . . I mean Negative Capability, that is, when a man is capable of being in uncertainties, mysteries, doubts, without any irritable reaching after fact and reason—Coleridge, for instance, would let go by a fine isolated verisimilitude caught from the Penetralium of mystery, from being incapable of remaining content with half-knowledge. - John Keats, 1817

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Re: It's the Donnydämmerung! (new Trump thread)

Postby Upton_O_Goode » Wed Sep 13, 2017 9:42 pm

Statistical Mechanic wrote:On this, Rand Paul has IMO the better argument. Against both Obama and Trump. ("Heroic" John McCain opposed the Paul amendment, of course. War without end.)


I'll give that much to Rand Paul. He is consistent about his preference for limited, constitutional government. No doubt this bill would have caused some alarm in the military, but when CAN we stop and take a look at what we've been doing? Not that Congress has ever been much of a check on the imperial Presidency. I can't remember a time when the President wanted authorization to use military force that was refused by Congress.
"Reserve a part of your wrath ; you have not seen the worst yet. You suppose that this war has been a criminal blunder and an exceptional horror ; you imagine that before long reason will prevail, and all these inferior people that govern the world will be swept aside, and your own party will reform everything and remain always in office. You are mistaken."

George Santayana, "Tipperary" (1918)

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Re: It's the Donnydämmerung! (new Trump thread)

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Wed Sep 13, 2017 10:27 pm

I think Trump snorts coke. He is still sniffing. I was just watching MSNBC - I haven't missed the US news - and they played a clip from Trump's Lester Holt interview, throughout which Trump snorted and sniffed with relish. It's disconcerting, as is his fairly obvious and dangerous underlying behavior. The man should lay off that drug - it is wreaking havoc with his nasal membranes.
. . . I mean Negative Capability, that is, when a man is capable of being in uncertainties, mysteries, doubts, without any irritable reaching after fact and reason—Coleridge, for instance, would let go by a fine isolated verisimilitude caught from the Penetralium of mystery, from being incapable of remaining content with half-knowledge. - John Keats, 1817

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Re: It's the Donnydämmerung! (new Trump thread)

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Wed Sep 13, 2017 10:41 pm

Will our fearless, selfless free speech advocates - Milo, the Rodoh crowd, that clown Ian, Ann Coulter, and the others - be protesting Sarah Hucklechuckle's call for the firing of an ESPN commentator for criticizing the so-called president?

Ya know, there are times - his sounds daft, I realize - that I get the feeling that Milo and our denier colleagues don't really care about free speech - but think it's a wedge they can use to put their propaganda across. Silly me.
. . . I mean Negative Capability, that is, when a man is capable of being in uncertainties, mysteries, doubts, without any irritable reaching after fact and reason—Coleridge, for instance, would let go by a fine isolated verisimilitude caught from the Penetralium of mystery, from being incapable of remaining content with half-knowledge. - John Keats, 1817

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Re: It's the Donnydämmerung! (new Trump thread)

Postby Balmoral95 » Wed Sep 13, 2017 10:55 pm

Statistical Mechanic wrote:I think Trump snorts coke. He is still sniffing. I was just watching MSNBC - I haven't missed the US news - and they played a clip from Trump's Lester Holt interview, throughout which Trump snorted and sniffed with relish. It's disconcerting, as is his fairly obvious and dangerous underlying behavior. The man should lay off that drug - it is wreaking havoc with his nasal membranes.


Hey, it was good enough for the Fuhrer :lol:

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Re: It's the Donnydämmerung! (new Trump thread)

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Wed Sep 13, 2017 10:55 pm

LOL
. . . I mean Negative Capability, that is, when a man is capable of being in uncertainties, mysteries, doubts, without any irritable reaching after fact and reason—Coleridge, for instance, would let go by a fine isolated verisimilitude caught from the Penetralium of mystery, from being incapable of remaining content with half-knowledge. - John Keats, 1817

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Re: It's the Donnydämmerung! (new Trump thread)

Postby scrmbldggs » Wed Sep 13, 2017 11:04 pm

Upton_O_Goode wrote:...I can't remember a time when the President wanted authorization to use military force that was refused by Congress.

There was the Obama/Syria debacle, but they didn't get to vote on their initial refusal, AFAIK?
.

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Re: It's the Donnydämmerung! (new Trump thread)

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Wed Sep 13, 2017 11:50 pm

Breitbart has been leading with the Moore-Strange contest in Alabama, using its support for Moore as opportunity to bash McConnell day after day.
. . . I mean Negative Capability, that is, when a man is capable of being in uncertainties, mysteries, doubts, without any irritable reaching after fact and reason—Coleridge, for instance, would let go by a fine isolated verisimilitude caught from the Penetralium of mystery, from being incapable of remaining content with half-knowledge. - John Keats, 1817

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Re: It's the Donnydämmerung! (new Trump thread)

Postby Balmoral95 » Thu Sep 14, 2017 12:05 am

scrmbldggs wrote:
Upton_O_Goode wrote:...I can't remember a time when the President wanted authorization to use military force that was refused by Congress.

There was the Obama/Syria debacle, but they didn't get to vote on their initial refusal, AFAIK?


http://www.politico.com/story/2017/09/1 ... ate-242662

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Re: It's the Donnydämmerung! (new Trump thread)

Postby scrmbldggs » Thu Sep 14, 2017 12:25 am

Balmoral95 wrote:
scrmbldggs wrote:
Upton_O_Goode wrote:...I can't remember a time when the President wanted authorization to use military force that was refused by Congress.

There was the Obama/Syria debacle, but they didn't get to vote on their initial refusal, AFAIK?


http://www.politico.com/story/2017/09/1 ... ate-242662

Thanks. I had been thinking of this 2013 request but have to confess very little knowledge about such matters...
.

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Re: It's the Donnydämmerung! (new Trump thread)

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Thu Sep 14, 2017 12:31 am

Today Trump continued to move off Bannon's strategy of failure after failure toward total incoherence leavened by his usual disingenuous marketing spin and grandiose lying:

- had Huckchuckle state on his behalf that he will sign the congressional resolution denouncing “White nationalists, White supremacists, the Ku Klux Klan, neo-Nazis, and other hate groups” (the resolution does not mention counter-protesters)

- said he wants Congress to proceed to “legalize” DACA without linkage to his Wall (“He said, ‘We don’t have to tie a wall to this.”)

- told a group of legislators that he is open to fixes to Obamacare to stabilize the program (meanwhile pushing repeal & replace efforts and regulatory gutting of the ACA)

- signaled working with Democrats on changes to the tax code leaving “the wealthy where they are, if we have to go higher, we will” (for this to be true, Trump will have to jettison his own plan, released in July)

- is having dinner with Pelosi and Schumer to discuss taxes and DACA
. . . I mean Negative Capability, that is, when a man is capable of being in uncertainties, mysteries, doubts, without any irritable reaching after fact and reason—Coleridge, for instance, would let go by a fine isolated verisimilitude caught from the Penetralium of mystery, from being incapable of remaining content with half-knowledge. - John Keats, 1817

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scrmbldggs
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Re: It's the Donnydämmerung! (new Trump thread)

Postby scrmbldggs » Thu Sep 14, 2017 12:47 am

:hmm: He did some maths and recons 62 is biglier than 38, eh.
.

Lard, save me from your followers.

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Re: It's the Donnydämmerung! (new Trump thread)

Postby scrmbldggs » Thu Sep 14, 2017 12:51 am

...and when is he gonna call Pelosi and Schumer Mom and Dad?
.

Lard, save me from your followers.

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Re: It's the Donnydämmerung! (new Trump thread)

Postby Gord » Thu Sep 14, 2017 12:56 am

Statistical Mechanic wrote:Today Trump continued to move off Bannon's strategy of failure after failure toward total incoherence leavened by his usual disingenuous marketing spin and grandiose lying:

- had Huckchuckle state on his behalf that he will sign the congressional resolution denouncing “White nationalists, White supremacists, the Ku Klux Klan, neo-Nazis, and other hate groups” (the resolution does not mention counter-protesters)

- said he wants Congress to proceed to “legalize” DACA without linkage to his Wall (“He said, ‘We don’t have to tie a wall to this.”)

- told a group of legislators that he is open to fixes to Obamacare to stabilize the program (meanwhile pushing repeal & replace efforts and regulatory gutting of the ACA)

- signaled working with Democrats on changes to the tax code leaving “the wealthy where they are, if we have to go higher, we will” (for this to be true, Trump will have to jettison his own plan, released in July)

- is having dinner with Pelosi and Schumer to discuss taxes and DACA

It seems to me like he's trying to time things so that his early presidency won't be held against him when he wants to be reelected.

Do your worst stuff early on, and hopefully people will forget about it when the time comes to vote. All he has to do now is show he's able to work with whoever will get the most done, and people will eat it up come next election.
"Knowledge grows through infinite timelessness" -- the random fictional Deepak Chopra quote site
"You are also taking my words out of context." -- Justin
"Nullius in verba" -- The Royal Society ["take nobody's word for it"]
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Re: It's the Donnydämmerung! (new Trump thread)

Postby Jeff_36 » Thu Sep 14, 2017 4:19 am

scrmbldggs wrote:...and when is he gonna call Pelosi and Schumer Mom and Dad?


We might have to start calling this version of him "compromise Trump". I miss "crazy Trump".


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