Is there a mind?

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Is there a mind?

Postby mirror93 » Thu Aug 17, 2017 1:23 pm

Do we possess a mind?

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Re: Is there a mind?

Postby gorgeous » Thu Aug 17, 2017 1:35 pm

yes ,,,and it's not in the brain like people here think...
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Re: Is there a mind?

Postby Poodle » Thu Aug 17, 2017 1:43 pm

It's certainly not there in your case, gorgeous.

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Re: Is there a mind?

Postby OutOfBreath » Thu Aug 17, 2017 1:55 pm

That , I think, would depend on your definition of "mind".

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Re: Is there a mind?

Postby Gord » Thu Aug 17, 2017 3:16 pm

And "possess".
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Re: Is there a mind?

Postby Confidencia » Thu Aug 17, 2017 3:20 pm

mirror93 wrote:Do we possess a mind?


The totality of thought is what the mind is. When there are no thoughts then obviously there is no mind. If there are thoughts and you identify with them then it is the mind that is in control and in possession of you. If there are thoughts and you negate them then you are in control.

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Re: Is there a mind?

Postby OutOfBreath » Thu Aug 17, 2017 3:46 pm

Confidencia wrote:
mirror93 wrote:Do we possess a mind?


The totality of thought is what the mind is. When there are no thoughts then obviously there is no mind. If there are thoughts and you identify with them then it is the mind that is in control and in possession of you. If there are thoughts and you negate them then you are in control.

How many of you are there in there? :confused:

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Re: Is there a mind?

Postby Confidencia » Thu Aug 17, 2017 4:09 pm

OutOfBreath wrote:
Confidencia wrote:
mirror93 wrote:Do we possess a mind?


The totality of thought is what the mind is. When there are no thoughts then obviously there is no mind. If there are thoughts and you identify with them then it is the mind that is in control and in possession of you. If there are thoughts and you negate them then you are in control.

How many of you are there in there? :confused:

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I do not exist in the mind, because I am the mind is.

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Re: Is there a mind?

Postby Monster » Thu Aug 17, 2017 6:14 pm

Confidencia wrote:
I do not exist in the mind, because I am the mind is.

Oh, I see. Then everything is wrapped up in a neat little package juh!
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Re: Is there a mind?

Postby digress » Fri Aug 18, 2017 3:19 am

We certainly posses a vocabulary which contains the word mind. :)
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Re: Is there a mind?

Postby Nikki Nyx » Fri Aug 18, 2017 8:48 pm

mirror93 wrote:Do we possess a mind?
I assume you don't mean "we" collectively, but each of us individually, yes? If so, then yes.

The mind is comprised of the interconnected memories, experiences, thoughts, ideas, emotions, etc. The interconnections make the whole greater than the sum of its parts in the same way that a well-written novel is greater than its words merely arranged in alphabetical order. How well the mind serves its user is dependent upon a number of conditions:
  • That the brain is free of physical defect caused by injury, disease, dysfunctional bodily processes, and/or inappropriately developed pathways due to environmental stressors.
  • That the user has read the manual and is aware of the brain's shortcomings, the better to overcome them, i.e. logical fallacies, confirmation biases, improper emotion regulation, etc.
  • That the user is unafraid to admit to error, and willing to debug and/or even rewrite programs from Line 1 if necessary, i.e. the active use of neural plasticity.
What are the facts? Again and again and again-what are the facts? Shun wishful thinking, ignore divine revelation, forget what “the stars foretell,” avoid opinion, care not what the neighbors think, never mind the unguessable “verdict of history”--what are the facts, and to how many decimal places? You pilot always into an unknown future; facts are your single clue. Get the facts!
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Re: Is there a mind?

Postby Gord » Fri Aug 18, 2017 9:04 pm

Nikki Nyx wrote:
mirror93 wrote:Do we possess a mind?
I assume you don't mean "we" collectively, but each of us individually, yes? If so, then yes.

Disagree! I would say in a sense we are the mind. The idea of possessing a mind suggests that we would continue to exist even without one, in the same way we might exist without possessing a house or a boat or a herd of goats.

Of course, that brings up the question of how we define "we". "We" could include the body, which I'm generally inclined to go with, in which case "we" can exist even without a brain. One could point at a headless corpse and say, "There's Bob. Well, most of him, anyway."

Also, the definition of "possess" needs to be considered. Does one possess a mind in the same way a hypothetical demon might posses a person? I would have to say no to that.

And does possession imply ownership? Can we be said to own our own minds? And if we own them, can we sell them? Exactly what would such ownership imply?

So in the end, I prefer to keep it simply and say "We do not possess what we are," and "We are, at least in part, 'the mind'".
"Knowledge grows through infinite timelessness" -- the random fictional Deepak Chopra quote site
"You are also taking my words out of context." -- Justin
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Re: Is there a mind?

Postby Nikki Nyx » Fri Aug 18, 2017 9:43 pm

Gord wrote:
Nikki Nyx wrote:
mirror93 wrote:Do we possess a mind?
I assume you don't mean "we" collectively, but each of us individually, yes? If so, then yes.

Disagree! I would say in a sense we are the mind. The idea of possessing a mind suggests that we would continue to exist even without one, in the same way we might exist without possessing a house or a boat or a herd of goats.

Of course, that brings up the question of how we define "we". "We" could include the body, which I'm generally inclined to go with, in which case "we" can exist even without a brain. One could point at a headless corpse and say, "There's Bob. Well, most of him, anyway."
I agree with your caveats. Except that's not Bob...Bob was taller. :mrgreen:
What are the facts? Again and again and again-what are the facts? Shun wishful thinking, ignore divine revelation, forget what “the stars foretell,” avoid opinion, care not what the neighbors think, never mind the unguessable “verdict of history”--what are the facts, and to how many decimal places? You pilot always into an unknown future; facts are your single clue. Get the facts!
—Lazarus Long, from Time Enough for Love, by Robert A. Heinlein

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Re: Is there a mind?

Postby Gord » Fri Aug 18, 2017 11:19 pm

Bob is his work name.
"Knowledge grows through infinite timelessness" -- the random fictional Deepak Chopra quote site
"You are also taking my words out of context." -- Justin
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Re: Is there a mind?

Postby Nikki Nyx » Sat Aug 19, 2017 4:07 am

Yeah, buoy!
What are the facts? Again and again and again-what are the facts? Shun wishful thinking, ignore divine revelation, forget what “the stars foretell,” avoid opinion, care not what the neighbors think, never mind the unguessable “verdict of history”--what are the facts, and to how many decimal places? You pilot always into an unknown future; facts are your single clue. Get the facts!
—Lazarus Long, from Time Enough for Love, by Robert A. Heinlein

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Re: Is there a mind?

Postby Flash » Sat Aug 19, 2017 5:08 am

Mind? Doesn't matter.
Matter? Never mind. :blink:
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Re: Is there a mind?

Postby Confidencia » Sat Aug 19, 2017 11:03 am

Gord wrote:
Nikki Nyx wrote:
mirror93 wrote:Do we possess a mind?
I assume you don't mean "we" collectively, but each of us individually, yes? If so, then yes.

Disagree! I would say in a sense we are the mind. The idea of possessing a mind suggests that we would continue to exist even without one, in the same way we might exist without possessing a house or a boat or a herd of goats.

Of course, that brings up the question of how we define "we". "We" could include the body, which I'm generally inclined to go with, in which case "we" can exist even without a brain. One could point at a headless corpse and say, "There's Bob. Well, most of him, anyway."

Also, the definition of "possess" needs to be considered. Does one possess a mind in the same way a hypothetical demon might posses a person? I would have to say no to that.

And does possession imply ownership? Can we be said to own our own minds? And if we own them, can we sell them? Exactly what would such ownership imply?

So in the end, I prefer to keep it simply and say "We do not possess what we are," and "We are, at least in part, 'the mind'".


Fook hing hell Gord! This is a brilliant synopsis! The last paragraph puts the icing on the cake!

"We do not possess what we are," because it is already the case, we are what we are. Which is basically all and nothing. "You are nothing that you are conscious of," which is basically everything, yet you are all that is within the field of consciousness. And "we are, at least in part, the mind," which might as well have been said as, "you are a conscious nothing," because the mind is only conscious of that which is in its consciousness, yet in itself it is nothing.

Mind is only a part of an whole and the part can never be greater than the whole. I'm sure even the hardest of skeptics would agree with that statement. Well all apart from the textbook massive, if it's not in his books then he is like an infant without a dummy to suck. Your a Fook hing genius Gord. :grovel: :grovel: :grovel:

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Re: Is there a mind?

Postby mirror93 » Sat Aug 19, 2017 2:47 pm

Confidencia wrote:
Gord wrote:
Nikki Nyx wrote:
mirror93 wrote:Do we possess a mind?
I assume you don't mean "we" collectively, but each of us individually, yes? If so, then yes.

Disagree! I would say in a sense we are the mind. The idea of possessing a mind suggests that we would continue to exist even without one, in the same way we might exist without possessing a house or a boat or a herd of goats.

Of course, that brings up the question of how we define "we". "We" could include the body, which I'm generally inclined to go with, in which case "we" can exist even without a brain. One could point at a headless corpse and say, "There's Bob. Well, most of him, anyway."

Also, the definition of "possess" needs to be considered. Does one possess a mind in the same way a hypothetical demon might posses a person? I would have to say no to that.

And does possession imply ownership? Can we be said to own our own minds? And if we own them, can we sell them? Exactly what would such ownership imply?

So in the end, I prefer to keep it simply and say "We do not possess what we are," and "We are, at least in part, 'the mind'".


Fook hing hell Gord! This is a brilliant synopsis! The last paragraph puts the icing on the cake!

"We do not possess what we are," because it is already the case, we are what we are. Which is basically all and nothing. "You are nothing that you are conscious of," which is basically everything, yet you are all that is within the field of consciousness. And "we are, at least in part, the mind," which might as well have been said as, "you are a conscious nothing," because the mind is only conscious of that which is in its consciousness, yet in itself it is nothing.

Mind is only a part of an whole and the part can never be greater than the whole. I'm sure even the hardest of skeptics would agree with that statement. Well all apart from the textbook massive, if it's not in his books then he is like an infant without a dummy to suck. Your a Fook hing genius Gord. :grovel: :grovel: :grovel:


you simply distorted everything gord said

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Re: Is there a mind?

Postby Confidencia » Sat Aug 19, 2017 3:36 pm

mirror93 wrote:
Confidencia wrote:
Gord wrote:
Nikki Nyx wrote:
mirror93 wrote:Do we possess a mind?
I assume you don't mean "we" collectively, but each of us individually, yes? If so, then yes.

Disagree! I would say in a sense we are the mind. The idea of possessing a mind suggests that we would continue to exist even without one, in the same way we might exist without possessing a house or a boat or a herd of goats.

Of course, that brings up the question of how we define "we". "We" could include the body, which I'm generally inclined to go with, in which case "we" can exist even without a brain. One could point at a headless corpse and say, "There's Bob. Well, most of him, anyway."

Also, the definition of "possess" needs to be considered. Does one possess a mind in the same way a hypothetical demon might posses a person? I would have to say no to that.

And does possession imply ownership? Can we be said to own our own minds? And if we own them, can we sell them? Exactly what would such ownership imply?

So in the end, I prefer to keep it simply and say "We do not possess what we are," and "We are, at least in part, 'the mind'".


Fook hing hell Gord! This is a brilliant synopsis! The last paragraph puts the icing on the cake!

"We do not possess what we are," because it is already the case, we are what we are. Which is basically all and nothing. "You are nothing that you are conscious of," which is basically everything, yet you are all that is within the field of consciousness. And "we are, at least in part, the mind," which might as well have been said as, "you are a conscious nothing," because the mind is only conscious of that which is in its consciousness, yet in itself it is nothing.

Mind is only a part of an whole and the part can never be greater than the whole. I'm sure even the hardest of skeptics would agree with that statement. Well all apart from the textbook massive, if it's not in his books then he is like an infant without a dummy to suck. Your a Fook hing genius Gord. :grovel: :grovel: :grovel:


you simply distorted everything gord said


And you have just started a thread entitled "Why can't everybody think logically."

If you can't understand the simplest of notions then you are going to be hard pushed to understand more complexed issues such as the one here.

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Re: Is there a mind?

Postby Nikki Nyx » Sat Aug 19, 2017 4:14 pm

I think there's an echo in this thread...I keep hearing my posts quoted back at me, but I have no idea who's doing it. :this:
What are the facts? Again and again and again-what are the facts? Shun wishful thinking, ignore divine revelation, forget what “the stars foretell,” avoid opinion, care not what the neighbors think, never mind the unguessable “verdict of history”--what are the facts, and to how many decimal places? You pilot always into an unknown future; facts are your single clue. Get the facts!
—Lazarus Long, from Time Enough for Love, by Robert A. Heinlein

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Re: Is there a mind?

Postby Confidencia » Sat Aug 19, 2017 4:57 pm

Nikki Nyx wrote:I think there's an echo in this thread...I keep hearing my posts quoted back at me, but I have no idea who's doing it. :this:


The question is not who, but what.

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Re: Is there a mind?

Postby Gord » Sat Aug 19, 2017 7:13 pm

mirror93 wrote:
Confidencia wrote:
Gord wrote:
Nikki Nyx wrote:
mirror93 wrote:Do we possess a mind?
I assume you don't mean "we" collectively, but each of us individually, yes? If so, then yes.

Disagree! I would say in a sense we are the mind. The idea of possessing a mind suggests that we would continue to exist even without one, in the same way we might exist without possessing a house or a boat or a herd of goats.

Of course, that brings up the question of how we define "we". "We" could include the body, which I'm generally inclined to go with, in which case "we" can exist even without a brain. One could point at a headless corpse and say, "There's Bob. Well, most of him, anyway."

Also, the definition of "possess" needs to be considered. Does one possess a mind in the same way a hypothetical demon might posses a person? I would have to say no to that.

And does possession imply ownership? Can we be said to own our own minds? And if we own them, can we sell them? Exactly what would such ownership imply?

So in the end, I prefer to keep it simply and say "We do not possess what we are," and "We are, at least in part, 'the mind'".


Fook hing hell Gord! This is a brilliant synopsis! The last paragraph puts the icing on the cake!

"We do not possess what we are," because it is already the case, we are what we are. Which is basically all and nothing. "You are nothing that you are conscious of," which is basically everything, yet you are all that is within the field of consciousness. And "we are, at least in part, the mind," which might as well have been said as, "you are a conscious nothing," because the mind is only conscious of that which is in its consciousness, yet in itself it is nothing.

Mind is only a part of an whole and the part can never be greater than the whole. I'm sure even the hardest of skeptics would agree with that statement. Well all apart from the textbook massive, if it's not in his books then he is like an infant without a dummy to suck. Your a Fook hing genius Gord. :grovel: :grovel: :grovel:

you simply distorted everything gord said

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Re: Is there a mind?

Postby placid » Sun Aug 20, 2017 12:16 pm

mirror93 wrote:
you simply distorted everything gord said


Not at all, in fact it complimented it.

The idea of being the watcher simply watching what is happening, dispassionately, objectively, is a useful technique for observing the workings of the mind. At some point, however the idea of "being the watcher' must be abandoned, as this still reinforces the idea that there is a "you" who can act and is doing something. Same with not-doing. There is still the idea that there is a "you" who can act and not-do.

You are already not you not doing anything.

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Re: Is there a mind?

Postby Gord » Sun Aug 20, 2017 2:14 pm

placid wrote:
mirror93 wrote:you simply distorted everything gord said

Not at all

Yeah, you did.

in fact it complimented it.

Yes, but it didn't complement it.
"Knowledge grows through infinite timelessness" -- the random fictional Deepak Chopra quote site
"You are also taking my words out of context." -- Justin
"Nullius in verba" -- The Royal Society ["take nobody's word for it"]
#ANDAMOVIE

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Re: Is there a mind?

Postby digress » Wed Aug 23, 2017 4:43 am

Do you all mind?
  God is an idea.  

"For now, I am going to err on the side of freedom of speech..." -Pyrrho
"Every instance that has always existed is a piece of evidence that God is not needed." -yrreg
"I am not a concept..." -Confidencia

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Re: Is there a mind?

Postby Dimebag » Wed Aug 30, 2017 8:33 am

I think the mind is a useful label we give to the contents of our brain, and its capacity. The mind is a useful level of description for talking about mental aspects, such as thoughts, feelings, etc. it's much easier to refer to our thoughts and feelings than to say this particular activation of neurons at time t. It is a useful shorthand, and one which needs a bridge from the neuronal level.

Just as it is easier to refer to Newtonian physics to describe the movement of physical bodies beyond the quantum scale, so too it is useful to describe the brains going ons at the mental scale, rather than the neuronal scale. The problem is, we can't scale up the neuronal scale to eventually describe a mental event, we have not yet acquired that level of description of the neuronal level and the complex interrelations which happen to allow a mental event to unfold.

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Re: Is there a mind?

Postby Confidencia » Sun Sep 10, 2017 12:16 pm

digress wrote:Do you all mind?


Yes we do. Apparently. Otherwise we would not be here entertaining ourselves whilst whiling away time.


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