"Human Trafficking"

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Re: "Human Trafficking"

Postby TJrandom » Sat Mar 18, 2017 9:08 am

I re-read your link just to make sure I hadn’t missed it - but indeed, no mention of the deep state. That is what initially threw me off as I searched for meaning in your post and recalled that the NRA is the deep state. For a moment I had thought that they had acquired drones and were supporting civilian ownership - for personal protection, or course.

But back to your article - no mention of daily basis usage against women and children, or even men for that matter - but rather what appears to be a mistake in hitting a mosque instead of a nearby house of bad guys, who presumably have murdered far more people than died in this accident.

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Re: "Human Trafficking"

Postby Tom Palven » Sat Mar 18, 2017 12:12 pm

TJrandom wrote:I re-read your link just to make sure I hadn’t missed it - but indeed, no mention of the deep state. That is what initially threw me off as I searched for meaning in your post and recalled that the NRA is the deep state. For a moment I had thought that they had acquired drones and were supporting civilian ownership - for personal protection, or course.

But back to your article - no mention of daily basis usage against women and children, or even men for that matter - but rather what appears to be a mistake in hitting a mosque instead of a nearby house of bad guys, who presumably have murdered far more people than died in this accident.


Prezoomed bi whoom?

Yoom?

Could they be like the American citizens droned to death in Yemen for speaking out against US actions there? Do you have inside info as to whooom they actually killed this time?
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Re: "Human Trafficking"

Postby TJrandom » Sat Mar 18, 2017 6:20 pm

Are you serious? Link for this?
droned to death in Yemen for speaking out against US actions there?

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Re: "Human Trafficking"

Postby Tom Palven » Sat Mar 18, 2017 6:56 pm

TJrandom wrote:Are you serious? Link for this?
droned to death in Yemen for speaking out against US actions there?


Although the US is not at war with Yemen, the CIA killed noncombatant Anwar al Awlaki and in another strike killed his noncombatant son for exercising their "freedom of speech." Perhaps you just read Associated Press news?
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/ ... zen-awlaki
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Re: "Human Trafficking"

Postby Tom Palven » Mon Mar 20, 2017 10:57 am

In my Feb. 25, 2:24 pm post I described the big slick magazine the CIA produced on "human trafficking" after having probably invented the term, but has at least has promoted the term and promoted a war on human trafficking. Apparently this was The Good CIA in action.

The book Finks describes the CIA's 60-year history of distributing fake news. In this Amazon review below it is stated that Finks demonstrates that "the good-versus-bad CIA is a false divide" and that the CIA has undermined and continues to undermine liberals.
https://smile.amazon.com/Finks-C-I-Tric ... st+writers

I don't know how the promotion of a war on human trafficking fits into the CIA agenda, but I would bet my ass that it has nothing to do with the welfare of women.
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Re: "Human Trafficking"

Postby TJrandom » Mon Mar 20, 2017 10:21 pm

Tom - are you are nutts, just nuuutttsss? I suspect it comes from your drinking water - Flint, right? Killed for speaking out - exercising free speach? Or was it possible that it had something to do with his advocating and planning terrorism?

Anwar al-Awlaki … was centrally involved in planning terrorist operations for the Islamist militant group al-Qaeda, …


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anwar_al-Awlaki

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Re: "Human Trafficking"

Postby Tom Palven » Tue Mar 21, 2017 1:04 pm

TJrandom wrote:Tom - are you are nutts, just nuuutttsss? I suspect it comes from your drinking water - Flint, right? Killed for speaking out - exercising free speach? Or was it possible that it had something to do with his advocating and planning terrorism?

Anwar al-Awlaki … was centrally involved in planning terrorist operations for the Islamist militant group al-Qaeda, …


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anwar_al-Awlaki


"The rule is perfect: in all matters of opinion our adversaries are insane." - Mark Twain

What proof do you have that al-Awlaki and his son were planning terrorism? Murdering them by drone was not only a cowardly act, but it violated the first amendment right to free speech and the fifth amendment right to due process, although the Bill of Rights has been reinterpreted into Newspeak by the powers-that-be and is no longer worth the paper it is printed on.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newspeak

Are you perhaps stationed on a military base in Japan, and only have access to military-approved news? A couple of posts ago you didn't know that American citizens had been droned. Now you apparently know they were war college-educated military masterminds.

First they came for al-Awlaki...
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Re: "Human Trafficking"

Postby TJrandom » Tue Mar 21, 2017 9:15 pm

Lol... nope, not on or near a military base and only a casual consumer of US news - so you are right, I didn`t know that US citizen terrorists had been martyred. And of course I have no proof that these scumbags were terrorists, nor how many innocents died due to their actions, but google to the rescue. Dare I say, just as you have no proof that they were just peace loving tourists exercising their right to free speach. And, I do applaud your admission that these scumbags were the worst of the worst - in saying `first they came for al-Awlaki` an indication that they were right there at the top of the list. Are you involved in terrorism Tom? Nope? Then not to worry.

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Re: "Human Trafficking"

Postby Tom Palven » Wed Mar 22, 2017 1:02 pm

"First they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out..."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_they_came_...

And at this point, it seems that Godwin's law applies... :mrgreen:
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Re: "Human Trafficking"

Postby TJrandom » Wed Mar 22, 2017 7:59 pm

Tom, I should cetainly hope so - there being lots of really baddies out there.

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Re: "Human Trafficking"

Postby Tom Palven » Thu Mar 23, 2017 6:32 am

TJrandom wrote:Tom, I should cetainly hope so - there being lots of really baddies out there.


True, and it seems that most of them are employed directly, or indirectly, by the CIA.
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Re: "Human Trafficking"

Postby TJrandom » Thu Mar 23, 2017 6:50 am

Tom Palven wrote:
TJrandom wrote:Tom, I should cetainly hope so - there being lots of really baddies out there.


True, and it seems that most of them are employed directly, or indirectly, by the CIA.


Tom, you are in :beamup: land....

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Re: "Human Trafficking"

Postby Tom Palven » Thu Mar 23, 2017 7:40 am

TJrandom wrote:
Tom Palven wrote:
TJrandom wrote:Tom, I should cetainly hope so - there being lots of really baddies out there.


True, and it seems that most of them are employed directly, or indirectly, by the CIA.


Tom, you are in :beamup: land....


Don't read William Blum's Freeing the World to Death. Just keep on drinking the Kool-Aid. Wouldn't want you to have to re-examine your orthodox views.
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Re: "Human Trafficking"

Postby TJrandom » Thu Mar 23, 2017 7:47 am

Tom Palven wrote:
TJrandom wrote:
Tom Palven wrote:
TJrandom wrote:Tom, I should cetainly hope so - there being lots of really baddies out there.


True, and it seems that most of them are employed directly, or indirectly, by the CIA.


Tom, you are in :beamup: land....


Don't read William Blum's Freeing the World to Death. Just keep on drinking the Kool-Aid. Wouldn't want you to have to re-examine your orthodox views.


Nope - I haven`t read it - but it is on my book list, with a planned purchase in June. (You are still in :beamup: land... :D )

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Re: "Human Trafficking"

Postby Tom Palven » Sat Mar 25, 2017 1:39 pm

The new book, Finks: How the CIA Tricked the World's Best Writers, January 10, 2017, has a tangential relationship to the term "human trafficking."
https://www.amazon.com/Finks-C-I-Tricke ... orld%27s+b

This is the story:

A large slick magazine-type booklet with the scary title International Trafficking in Women to the United States: A Contemporary Manifestation of Slavery and Organized Crime is available from Amazon, which lists the author as State Dept. Bureau of Intelligence and Research. 

There are no credits whatsoever on the booklet as to author, publisher, etc., and the only identifying statement is at the bottom of the last page- "Made in the USA, Lexington, KY, 20 February 2017."

A google search on the name took me to this site...
https://www.cia.gov/library/center-for- ... icking.pdf
... which shows that the booklet was first published by the CIA in 1999.

The timing of the first publication shows that if the CIA did not actually invent the Newspeak term "Human Trafficking" to replace the older terms, "kidnapping," "slavery," and "involuntary servitude" which have been, and should be, illegal since the end of the Civil War, that the CIA was very early in promoting the use of the term as a new and scary phenomenon.

If you go to the CIA link it will tell you that neither the State Department, the Director of the Central Intelligence Agency, nor the Central Intelligence Agency endorse the material contained in the booklet, and yet they published it.

One might assume that there are policy-makers at the CIA who are concerned about the welfare of foreign women, but this is extremely doubtful, as John Whitney explains in his book Finks.

The Amazon book review of Finks points out that it's unlikely that the powers-that-be at the CIA actually give a leaping lap dance about the welfare of foreign women, putting it this way:

"Finks demonstrates how the good-versus-bad CIA is a false divide, and that the cultural cold warriors again and again used anti-communism as a lever to spy relentlessly on leftists, and indeed writers of all political persuasions, and thereby pushed U.S. democracy closer to the Soviet model of the surveillance state."
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Re: "Human Trafficking"

Postby Gawdzilla Sama » Sun Mar 26, 2017 1:18 am

There used to be a slave market not from from Singapore. Conducted wholly on yachts and ships, dealt mostly in young children. I was advised of it around 1983.
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Re: "Human Trafficking"

Postby TJrandom » Sun Mar 26, 2017 6:07 am

No doubt - managed by the CIA... :mrgreen:

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Re: "Human Trafficking"

Postby Tom Palven » Sun Mar 26, 2017 10:45 am

TJrandom wrote:No doubt - managed by the CIA... :mrgreen:


The State Dept./CIA aids and abets Saudi Arabia...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_tra ... udi_Arabia
... so that wouldn't be too surprising.

https://www.bing.com/images/search?q=ge ... &FORM=IGRE
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Re: "Human Trafficking"

Postby TJrandom » Sun Mar 26, 2017 10:58 am

Ah yes - Saudi Arabia and Singapore being practically neighbours...

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Re: "Human Trafficking"

Postby Gawdzilla Sama » Sun Mar 26, 2017 12:11 pm

TJrandom wrote:No doubt - managed by the CIA... :mrgreen:

Isn't everything? :roll:

CIA is incompetent. CIA runs the world.
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Re: "Human Trafficking"

Postby Tom Palven » Sun Mar 26, 2017 6:40 pm

Gawdzilla Sama wrote:
TJrandom wrote:No doubt - managed by the CIA... :mrgreen:

Isn't everything? :roll:

CIA is incompetent. CIA runs the world.



Incompetent and evil.
Explains why the world is a friggin' mess.
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Re: "Human Trafficking"

Postby Gawdzilla Sama » Sun Mar 26, 2017 7:21 pm

Tom Palven wrote:
Gawdzilla Sama wrote:
TJrandom wrote:No doubt - managed by the CIA... :mrgreen:

Isn't everything? :roll:

CIA is incompetent. CIA runs the world.



Incompetent and evil.
Explains why the world is a friggin' mess.

The CIA loves it when people say they're incompetent. Having your enemies underestimate you is very Clauswitizian. ;)
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Re: "Human Trafficking"

Postby TJrandom » Mon Apr 17, 2017 4:00 am

The CIA is big in this one. Well, maybe not Tom....

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Re: "Human Trafficking"

Postby Tom Palven » Mon Apr 17, 2017 11:25 am

TJrandom wrote:The CIA is big in this one. Well, maybe not Tom....


Well, if Kevin Kimmel says "We need to inform truckers about what's really going on," what can I say?

There it is in black and white! Investigative journalism at it's finest.

Here's more incisive reporting:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dguiAWrUGMM
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Re: "Human Trafficking"

Postby Tom Palven » Fri Apr 28, 2017 8:37 pm

Gawdzilla Sama wrote:
Tom Palven wrote:
Gawdzilla Sama wrote:
TJrandom wrote:No doubt - managed by the CIA... :mrgreen:

Isn't everything? :roll:

CIA is incompetent. CIA runs the world.



Incompetent and evil.
Explains why the world is a friggin' mess.

The CIA loves it when people say they're incompetent. Having your enemies underestimate you is very Clauswitizian. ;)


Maybe just evil.

The State Dept./CIA/Pentagon/Congressional military complex is competent at killing women and children every day while claiming to be protecting them from human trafficking:
http://news.antiwar.com/2017/04/27/repo ... ious-year/

And it is allied with Saudi Arabia, the most misogynistic country in the world.

Any cognitive dissonance about that, or is it enough that it computes for you Clauswitzianistickly?
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Re: "Human Trafficking"

Postby OutOfBreath » Fri Apr 28, 2017 10:26 pm

Tom Palven wrote:The State Dept./CIA/Pentagon/Congressional military complex is competent at killing women and children every day while claiming to be protecting them from human trafficking:
http://news.antiwar.com/2017/04/27/repo ... ious-year/

Tom, I havent heard nor read anything from anyone claiming a connection between the two except you. Not even your links have anything to do with trafficking, its all about war in afghanistan and whatnot. Maybe you should just let that bone go, huh? Noone knows where you found it and it smells unconvincing.

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Re: "Human Trafficking"

Postby Tom Palven » Sat Apr 29, 2017 2:03 am

OutOfBreath wrote:
Tom Palven wrote:The State Dept./CIA/Pentagon/Congressional military complex is competent at killing women and children every day while claiming to be protecting them from human trafficking:
http://news.antiwar.com/2017/04/27/repo ... ious-year/

Tom, I havent heard nor read anything from anyone claiming a connection between the two except you. Not even your links have anything to do with trafficking, its all about war in Afghanistan and whatnot. Maybe you should just let that bone go, huh? No one knows where you found it and it smells unconvincing.

Peace
Dan


Go back a few posts, Dan.

Right from the beginning I felt that there was something fishy about this New Outrage, "human trafficking," and lo and behold, as I pointed out in the post of Feb. 25, 2:24 PM, it was probably the CIA which invented the term, and it was definitely the CIA that promoted this dread new problem with their slick magazine about it.

The point is that there are not two CIAs, one a great liberal humanitarian organization with the well-being of foreign women and children its foremost concern, and another CIA which specializes in overthrowing democratically-elected governments and droning all emerging leaders opposed to US occupation which doesn't give leaping lap-dance about how many women and children that it kills or maims.

There is only the latter.

The rest is self-serving disinformation.

Read Blum. Read Gore Vidal. Read Matt Taibbi, Glenn Greenwald, or Max Keiser. Read someone not on the CIA payroll or otherwise beholden to the CIA/State Dept./Pentagon.
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Re: "Human Trafficking"

Postby Matthew Ellard » Sat Apr 29, 2017 2:32 am

I think you are putting an odd spin on normal Intelligence research. The CIA arose in the late 40's while millions of displaced people were moving back and forth across Europe and there were, as there still are, criminal organisations moving girls across borders and sending the revenues back and forth. That money is laundered and a good intelligence agency has to know how these things work to spot other bad things going on. If a criminal organisation is able to launder money from one thing why not "piggy backing" illegal weapons sales. The other thing is the CIA does launder money itself and needs to know the CIA wont get spotted by ...say the KGB or SIS?

What I'm saying is that one bad criminal activity, that would seem to be a matter for normal police, (gathering evidence for open prosecution) may be covering another activity that is a matter of concern for intelligence agencies (which don't prosecute but simply want to know what's going on). I suggest to you there is a high volume of information exchanged between the CIA and FBI simply because the CIA cannot prosecute anyone and the CIA does want most baddies prosecuted (well maybe not the baddies the CIA are using at the time) . :D

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Re: "Human Trafficking"

Postby Tom Palven » Sat Apr 29, 2017 9:01 am

Matthew Ellard wrote:[color=#000080]I think you are putting an odd spin on normal Intelligence research.


What I'm saying is that the alleged concern by the CIA for foreign women and children due to "human trafficking" just doesn't compute, and that the actions of the CIA suggest that its top brass have the mindset of neoconservative sociopaths like Mitch McConnell and John McCain who are creaming in their jeans for thousands of deaths of men, women, and children in North Korea and Iran.

If Mark Twain were alive he might dedicate The War Prayer to them:

The War Prayer
by Mark Twain
It was a time of great and exalting excitement. The country was up in arms, the war was on, in every breast burned the holy fire of patriotism; the drums were beating, the bands playing, the toy pistols popping, the bunched firecrackers hissing and spluttering; on every hand and far down the receding and fading spread of roofs and balconies a fluttering wilderness of flags flashed in the sun; daily the young volunteers marched down the wide avenue gay and fine in their new uniforms, the proud fathers and mothers and sisters and sweethearts cheering them with voices choked with happy emotion as they swung by; nightly the packed mass meetings listened, panting, to patriot oratory with stirred the deepest deeps of their hearts, and which they interrupted at briefest intervals with cyclones of applause, the tears running down their cheeks the while; in the churches the pastors preached devotion to flag and country, and invoked the God of Battles beseeching His aid in our good cause in outpourings of fervid eloquence which moved every listener.

It was indeed a glad and gracious time, and the half dozen rash spirits that ventured to disapprove of the war and cast a doubt upon its righteousness straightway got such a stern and angry warning that for their personal safety’s sake they quickly shrank out of sight and offended no more in that way.

Sunday morning came — next day the battalions would leave for the front; the church was filled; the volunteers were there, their young faces alight with martial dreams — visions of the stern advance, the gathering momentum, the rushing charge, the flashing sabers, the flight of the foe, the tumult, the enveloping smoke, the fierce pursuit, the surrender!

Then home from the war, bronzed heroes, welcomed, adored, submerged in golden seas of glory! With the volunteers sat their dear ones, proud, happy, and envied by the neighbors and friends who had no sons and brothers to send forth to the field of honor, there to win for the flag, or, failing, die the noblest of noble deaths. The service proceeded; a war chapter from the Old Testament was read; the first prayer was said; it was followed by an organ burst that shook the building, and with one impulse the house rose, with glowing eyes and beating hearts, and poured out that tremendous invocation:

God the all-terrible! Thou who ordainest,
Thunder thy clarion and lightning thy sword!

Then came the “long” prayer. None could remember the like of it for passionate pleading and moving and beautiful language. The burden of its supplication was, that an ever-merciful and benignant Father of us all would watch over our noble young soldiers, and aid, comfort, and encourage them in their patriotic work; bless them, shield them in the day of battle and the hour of peril, bear them in His mighty hand, make them strong and confident, invincible in the bloody onset; help them crush the foe, grant to them and to their flag and country imperishable honor and glory —

An aged stranger entered and moved with slow and noiseless step up the main aisle, his eyes fixed upon the minister, his long body clothed in a robe that reached to his feet, his head bare, his white hair descending in a frothy cataract to his shoulders, his seamy face unnaturally pale, pale even to ghastliness. With all eyes following him and wondering, he made his silent way; without pausing, he ascended to the preacher’s side and stood there waiting. With shut lids the preacher, unconscious of his presence, continued his moving prayer, and at last finished it with the words, uttered in fervent appeal, “Bless our arms, grant us the victory, O Lord and God, Father and Protector of our land and flag!”

The stranger touched his arm, motioned him to step aside — which the startled minister did — and took his place. During some moments he surveyed the spellbound audience with solemn eyes, in which burned an uncanny light; then in a deep voice he said:

“I come from the Throne — bearing a message from Almighty God!” The words smote the house with a shock; if the stranger perceived it he gave no attention. “He has heard the prayer of His servant your shepherd, and will grant it if such be your desire after I, His messenger, shall have explained to you its import — that is to say, its full import. For it is like unto many of the prayers of men, in that it asks for more than he who utters it is aware of — except he pause and think. “God’s servant and yours has prayed his prayer. Has he paused and taken thought? Is it one prayer? No, it is two — one uttered, and the other not. Both have reached the ear of Him who heareth all supplications, the spoken and the unspoken. Ponder this — keep it in mind. If you would beseech a blessing upon yourself, beware! lest without intent you invoke a curse upon your neighbor at the same time. If you pray for the blessing of rain on your crop which needs it, by that act you are possibly praying for a curse on some neighbor’s crop which may not need rain and can be injured by it.

“You have heard your servant’s prayer — the uttered part of it. I am commissioned by God to put into words the other part of it — that part which the pastor — and also you in your hearts — fervently prayed silently. And ignorantly and unthinkingly? God grant that it was so! You heard the words ‘Grant us the victory, O Lord our God!’ That is sufficient. The whole of the uttered prayer is compact into those pregnant words. Elaborations were not necessary. When you have prayed for victory you have prayed for many unmentioned results which follow victory — must follow it, cannot help but follow it. Upon the listening spirit of God fell also the unspoken part of the prayer. He commandeth me to put it into words. Listen!
“Lord our Father, our young patriots, idols of our hearts, go forth into battle — be Thou near them! With them — in spirit — we also go forth from the sweet peace of our beloved firesides to smite the foe. O Lord our God, help us tear their soldiers to bloody shreds with our shells; help us to cover their smiling fields with the pale forms of their patriot dead; help us to drown the thunder of the guns with the shrieks of their wounded, writhing in pain; help us to lay waste their humble homes with a hurricane of fire; help us to wring the hearts of their unoffending widows with unavailing grief; help us to turn them out roofless with their little children to wander unfriended in the wastes of their desolated land in rags and hunger and thirst, sports of the sun flames in summer and the icy winds of winter, broken in spirit, worn with travail, imploring thee for the refuge of the grave and denied it —

For our sakes who adore Thee, Lord, blast their hopes, blight their lives, protract their bitter pilgrimmage, make heavy their steps, water their way with their tears, stain the white snow with the blood of their wounded feet!

We ask it, in the spirit of love, of Him Who is the Source of Love, and Who is the ever-faithful refuge and friend of all that are sore beset and seek His aid with humble and contrite hearts. Amen.
(After a pause.) “Ye have prayed it; if ye still desire it, speak! The messenger of the Most High waits.”

...

It was believed afterward that the man was a lunatic, because there was no sense in what he said.
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Re: "Human Trafficking"

Postby TJrandom » Mon May 01, 2017 9:55 am

Tom Palven wrote: What I'm saying is that the alleged concern by the CIA for foreign women and children due to "human trafficking" just doesn't compute, and that the actions of the CIA suggest that its top brass have the mindset of neoconservative sociopaths like Mitch McConnell and John McCain who are creaming in their jeans for thousands of deaths of men, women, and children in North Korea and Iran.


Oh come on Tom - you know down deep in your somewhat mostly jaded heart, that the CIA really does care about women and children - and that it doesn`t matter one iota that they are foreign. And the rest of that statement - well, to be honest, it doesn`t deserve a comment.

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Re: "Human Trafficking"

Postby Matthew Ellard » Mon May 01, 2017 11:25 pm

Tom Palven wrote:What I'm saying is that the alleged concern by the CIA for foreign women and children due to "human trafficking" just doesn't compute, and that the actions of the CIA suggest that its top brass have the mindset of neoconservative sociopaths like Mitch McConnell and John McCain who are creaming in their jeans for thousands of deaths of men, women, and children in North Korea and Iran.


Well....police commissioners and other people in mandated public service rolls do, sometimes, express sympathy on general public issues and I imagine John McCain, an ex-prisoner of war, does have some sincere sympathy for women and children held in captivity for prostitution services.

However, the original document was re-published by the CIA and was not a CIA produced document. If you went into the document stacks, of say, the British SIS, you'd find a whole lot of seemingly unrelated books on minor criminal activities, unrelated NGOs, histories of salt smuggling and so on. That's how these boys & girls compose models for the actual activities they are looking at.

(Additionally there is the operative element in that anti-prostitution workers, working for an NGO may get access to foreign territories and leaders that a blatant CIA officer would not get access to. "Big pictures" come from lots of little tid-bits of information from these sorts of people.) :D

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Re: "Human Trafficking"

Postby Tom Palven » Tue May 02, 2017 12:19 am

Matthew Ellard wrote:
Tom Palven wrote:What I'm saying is that the alleged concern by the CIA for foreign women and children due to "human trafficking" just doesn't compute, and that the actions of the CIA suggest that its top brass have the mindset of neoconservative sociopaths like Mitch McConnell and John McCain who are creaming in their jeans for thousands of deaths of men, women, and children in North Korea and Iran.


However, the original document was re-published by the CIA and was not a CIA produced document.




No.

As I explained in my posts of Feb. 25, 2:24 pm and Feb.27, 9:10 am, the original document was produced by the CIA in 1999 as the link there shows...
https://www.cia.gov/library/center-for- ... icking.pdf

... and it was republished at least once again, in 2017, and is available at Amazon without any identifying marks on it, not even an author's name, except that it was printed in Lexington , KY.
Last edited by Tom Palven on Tue May 02, 2017 12:25 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: "Human Trafficking"

Postby Matthew Ellard » Tue May 02, 2017 12:25 am

Tom Palven wrote:As I explained in my posts of Feb. 25, 2:24 pm and Feb.27, 9:10 am, the original document was produced by the CIA in 1999 as the link there shows...
https://www.cia.gov/library/center-for- ... icking.pdf


The author is an analyst with the State Department’s Bureau of
Intelligence and Research
. She conducted her research under
the auspices of the DCI Exceptional Intelligence Analyst Program,
administered by the Center for the Study of Intelligence.
All statements of fact, opinion, analysis, policy, and position expressed
herein are those of the author. They do not necessarily
reflect official policies, positions, or views of the
Department of
State, the Director of Central Intelligence, the Central Intelligence
Agency, or any other U.S. Government or foreign government
entity
, past or present. Nothing in the contents should be construed
as asserting or implying U.S. Government or foreign government
endorsement of this monograph’s factual statements
and interpretations.


The Department of State is not the CIA.

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Re: "Human Trafficking"

Postby Tom Palven » Tue May 02, 2017 12:47 am

Matthew Ellard wrote:
The Department of State is not the CIA.


Why is the link to the CIA Govt library center?

And look at the bottom of "Introduction," page iii:

footnote 2, Central Intelligence briefing... April 1999, and tell me that you don't think that the CIA put this all in motion. But if it was the State Department instead, it makes little difference.

Do you remember when a State Dept. official's wife (unidentified as such) went on 60 Minutes and claimed to have seen Iraqi troops pulling babies out of incubators in Kuwait? helping foster the US invasion of Iraq, and it was later proven that she was nowhere near Kuwait?

I can probably find those facts if I try, but in any case imho the upper brass of the State Dept., Pentagon, and the CIA and other secret police, all promote the same Deep State agenda, which includes aiding and abetting Saudi Arabia, the most misogynistic country in the world, and absolutely nothing to do with promoting the welfare of foreign women and children.
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Re: "Human Trafficking"

Postby Matthew Ellard » Tue May 02, 2017 1:25 am

Matthew Ellard wrote:The Department of State is not the CIA.

Tom Palven wrote: Why is the link to the CIA Govt library center?
All because a library has certain books doesn't mean the library wrote those certain books. I'm sure the CIA has a copy of Marx's Das Kapital, but I doubt they co-authored the book :D

Tom Palven wrote:...., and tell me that you don't think that the CIA put this all in motion. But if it was the State Department instead, it makes little difference.
The book was authored by a person for the Department of State. It clearly says that. We can't fight against Trump's "false news" if we don't get facts right ourselves. We are better than that. :D

Tom Palven wrote:Do you remember when a State Dept. official's wife (unidentified as such) went on 60 Minutes and claimed to have seen Iraqi troops pulling babies out of incubators in Kuwait? helping foster the US invasion of Iraq, and it was later proven that she was nowhere near Kuwait?
Tom, look around the forum. We are busting political spammers, who tell lies, all the time.
viewtopic.php?f=24&t=27894&start=200#p573436

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Re: "Human Trafficking"

Postby Tom Palven » Tue May 02, 2017 10:04 am

Matthew Ellard wrote:
Tom Palven wrote:Do you remember when a State Dept. official's wife (unidentified as such) went on 60 Minutes and claimed to have seen Iraqi troops pulling babies out of incubators in Kuwait? helping foster the US invasion of Iraq, and it was later proven that she was nowhere near Kuwait?
Tom, look around the forum. We are busting political spammers, who tell lies, all the time.
viewtopic.php?f=24&t=27894&start=200#p573436


What is that supposed to mean?

Do you recall that or not?

You seem to regard the CIA as somehow being different from the KGB, Mossad, Stasi, BOSS, SAVAK, MI6 with it's Hollywood-popularized "license to kill," and other secret police, but as such well-documented books as Finks by highly credentialed authors have shown, the CIA is a true example of American exceptionalism cut from the same bolt of cloth.

I can understand why Americans, apparently like many Germans under the Third Reich, want to stick their heads in the sand, but why do you as a non-American want to ignore or paper-over the fact that the CIA is now by far the biggest, baddest, most heavily funded, murderous, propaganda machine in the world?

Is it not all of these things?
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Re: "Human Trafficking"

Postby Matthew Ellard » Wed May 03, 2017 12:01 am

Tom Palven wrote:What is that supposed to mean?
You are claiming some sort of insight into people and organisations telling false stories. I was pointing out the members of this forum have quite a lot of hands on experience catching them, on a regular basis.

Tom Palven wrote:You seem to regard the CIA as somehow being different from the KGB, Mossad, Stasi, BOSS, SAVAK, MI6 with it's Hollywood-popularized "license to kill," and other secret police,

Yes and that's because I know what I'm talking about.
The CIA is a separate US non military agency for foreign surveillance. The KGB was the combined divisions of the foreign civil service and non-military and military domestic service. I could go on, but you don't seem to know the basic difference between the modern SVR, FSB, GRU and SCR of Russia. They all have very different mandates and different ways of operating. The CIA is incompetent in some areas, but it is not inherently evil. It has also revealed some very important things and done good work.

Tom Palven wrote:I can understand why Americans, apparently like many Germans under the Third Reich, want to stick their heads in the sand, but why do you as a non-American want to ignore or paper-over the fact that the CIA is now by far the biggest, baddest, most heavily funded, murderous, propaganda machine in the world?
.....because it isn't. How in hell can you compare the CIA to the Pakistani ISI and claim the CIA is the most murderous? Who did you think was controlling heroin production in Afghanistan and blowing up both USA soldiers and anti USA locals to keep the profits coming in.

How can you say the CIA is the most heavily funded? The NSA (signals intelligence) has almost four times the funding as it puts up entire satellite networks "for spotting" and signal intercepts.

I suggest to you that you start learning the basics about these various agencies and organisations.
First separate them into military and non military. (Is the GRU military? "Yes" Is the SVR military? "No")
What are their mandates? (The DIA (military) looks for info about tanks, missile ranges. The CIA (civil)
for economic and political information)
What are their tools? (SIS, CSIS, ASIS human intelligence, the CIA mostly statistics, bribes and a little human intelligence, the NSA uses signals intelligence Who do they answer to and receive information requests from?


There is no such thing as a James Bond secret agent, working solo. The whole basis of foreign intelligence work is to obtain "product" (information) for "users" (government & military) as requested by controllers (Joint intelligence councils) and defined mandates (legislation). One bloke is not going to be able to do all that with any accuracy or "big picture" coverage.

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Re: "Human Trafficking"

Postby Tom Palven » Wed May 03, 2017 8:46 am

Matthew Ellard wrote:
Tom Palven wrote:What is that supposed to mean?
You are claiming some sort of insight into people and organisations telling false stories. I was pointing out the members of this forum have quite a lot of hands on experience catching them, on a regular basis.

Tom Palven wrote:You seem to regard the CIA as somehow being different from the KGB, Mossad, Stasi, BOSS, SAVAK, MI6 with it's Hollywood-popularized "license to kill," and other secret police,



Yes and that's because I know what I'm talking about.
The CIA is a separate US non military agency for foreign surveillance.


The CIA disseminates disinformation and overthrows democratically-elected parliaments. Yes or no?
And this is not new, but it may be news to you, the CIA also murders people without due process from military bases in Nevada and Langley, VA.
http://articles.latimes.com/2010/may/05 ... s-20100506

You may define these activities as "non military" foreign surveillance, and you may want to redefine the Constitutional meaning of "due process."

Seems a little Orwellian to me, but suit yourself.
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Re: "Human Trafficking"

Postby TJrandom » Wed May 03, 2017 10:02 am

What`s your beef, Tom?

Instead of just a few dozen attacks per year, CIA-operated unmanned aircraft now carry out multiple missile strikes each week against safe houses, training camps and other hiding places used by militants in the tribal belt bordering Afghanistan.


IMO, it is a damn good thing that the CIA is active in this war. Or would you prefer that they let these paragons of religious moderation and love for mankind good old boys to flourish, and eventually come to visit?

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Re: "Human Trafficking"

Postby scrmbldggs » Wed May 03, 2017 8:11 pm

...goes to jail

A private prison company currently being sued for human trafficking expects to handle one quarter of President Donald Trump’s immigrant detention.


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