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Re: Las Vegas

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Thu Oct 19, 2017 6:35 am

Lance: this is my point. How can reality not inform your desire/understanding of what "should " be? This is the very disconnect that allows gun nutters to think they "SHOULD" have guns for self protection. Reality informs you that no right is absolute must be balanced against all the other rights.

Too many people know and understand reality......... and then go and emotionally vote their shoulds.

Its BAD thinking.......as is your repetition of the given that starts this conversation. Ha, ha...........so like too many discussions. Recognize an idea has faults and limitations.....then go ahead and think the same anyway. Say one thing...do the opposite. So hooman.
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Re: Las Vegas

Post by Lance Kennedy » Thu Oct 19, 2017 8:41 am

Sorry, Bobbo

The way your question is worded, I simply do not know what you are after.

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Re: Las Vegas

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Thu Oct 19, 2017 12:22 pm

Lance Kennedy wrote:Sorry, Bobbo

The way your question is worded, I simply do not know what you are after.
I catch a bit of that myself. It goes to what does "should" actually mean? It may go to your example: if reverence for life is 99.99% good but would result in a town flooded with dozens of deaths rather than flood one home in the release zone...then that one life is not revered...and reverence for life "should NOT" be an absolute. We agree on all the details for this except you go back and say reverence for life "should" still be a goal. Let's be precise, what you said was: "The right to life, for example, should be inalienable, thus making the death penalty illegal.....blah, blah ... anyway .... there are no inalienable rights." Your context for thinking about this is correct re the death penalty but not for protecting against mass floodings? But.....you obviously still have the value, the "should", in mind when offering up that variously the most good should be done for the most people? Does intentionally killing one person to save dozens of others adhere to the "should" concept or not? I could argue that either way, almost did, but it devolves into existential theory...which is a whole other can of worms.

What rights, notions, desires, wants "should" be inalienable? If the answer is NONE, then "should" should drop out of your thinking. Lets try it: "The death penalty should be illegal because too many errors are made." Hmmm....nothing to do with inalienable rights at all. Rather a "respect" for competing interests. Does being precise in our language come to better statements of interest?

I think so. Just look.
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Re: Las Vegas

Post by Lance Kennedy » Thu Oct 19, 2017 7:14 pm

Bobbo

I readily admit that things which SHOULD exist often cannot for very real practical, and sometimes moral, reasons.

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Re: Las Vegas

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Thu Oct 19, 2017 8:32 pm

".................................often cannot for very real practical, and sometimes moral, reasons.............." //// which is exactly why they "should not" be absolutes.

Is saying: "Never say never" also too subtle?
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Re: Las Vegas

Post by gorgeous » Thu Oct 26, 2017 1:51 pm

Science Fundamentalism...is exactly what happens when there’s a significant, perceived ideological threat to one’s traditions and identity.

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Re: Las Vegas

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Thu Oct 26, 2017 5:05 pm

G: before I spend any part of 20 minutes listening to this..................whats the take away? Ie: in your view, what does one learn or get put on notice of, or should conclude?

Anything? Most of your conspiracies seem entirely open ended. You correctly identify that people have different views of some event and therefore........................."conspiracy." But to what end?

Please give an answer a try?
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Re: Las Vegas

Post by Matthew Ellard » Thu Oct 26, 2017 11:30 pm

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:before I spend any part of 20 minutes listening to this..................whats the take away?
Gorgeous has simply linked to a You-Tube episode of Info Wars. In that episode a bloke says "Have you noticed that 540 victims were taken to hospital and none of them were ever interviewed by media?"

In reality there are hundreds of media interviews with Los Vegas victims who went to hospital, including Fox News. Gorgeous already knows Gorgeous is lying. :lol:

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Re: Las Vegas

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Fri Oct 27, 2017 12:05 am

Thanks Matt. Its somewhat like what I posted on the thread re "Remembered past Lives"....some of the stories sound good as they raise seemingly significant fact patterns................but then you find out those fact patterns are all lies. Like the victims not being interviewed. I saw quite a few on tv. Maybe G needs a digital tv or antenna???.......but why not just remote view the whole situation and write up the TRUTH about it all?

EVERY INCIDENT is viewed/remembered/reported on differently by different people. Different reports on their own don't mean a thing. From what I've seen re Las Vegas.......its mostly different entities covering their assets for different types of liability or bad publicity. NOT a conspiracy. Just Hoomans.
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Re: Las Vegas

Post by Lance Kennedy » Fri Oct 27, 2017 12:11 am

I still have not seen any half way realistic reason why Paddock did what he did. If he was nuts, what was the basis of his mental illness ?

My only solution to this problem is to restrict access to the kind of weapons he had. Why should a civilian be able to get hold of mass slaughter weapons .?

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Re: Las Vegas

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Fri Oct 27, 2017 1:32 am

What do you want Lance?

I'll make something up out of what little I don't know: he was growing old and contemplating his mark in history: none. No children, no notable achievements. He could not play poker as well as he used to either, could no longer count cards to get the edge he was so proud of. His girl friend was growing remote and he feared with him only because of his money which he was losing at a great rate. He got mildly depressed about all this and was not sleeping well at all.

He decided to go out on his own terms, with a bang. Now.............don't be tedious and have any sentence with the word but or why in it and certainly don't correct any facts.

.............makes me wonder about you..........too!
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Re: Las Vegas

Post by Lance Kennedy » Fri Oct 27, 2017 2:41 am

Nice theory, Bobbo.

Got any data ?

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Re: Las Vegas

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Fri Oct 27, 2017 5:48 pm

Yes!!!!! The nutter collected guns and went up to the hotel and shot innocent people having nothing to do with any possible solution to any imagined problem. Even becoming famous doesn't work. What such villan beyond Brutus is remembered? One in trillions if that was his imagined goal. an obvious nutter. Oh.......btw......its not a theory. Its made up......expressly....stand back from the window.
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Re: Las Vegas

Post by Lance Kennedy » Fri Oct 27, 2017 6:18 pm

Bit short on details of psychology.

I was wondering if someone who actually knows what he is talking about, who has done enough research, has come up with a credible, and data backed idea.

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Re: Las Vegas

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Fri Oct 27, 2017 7:00 pm

Lance....................................................I suppose a patients individual "history" is "data"........... but you are showing your inflexibility. The Dude is Dead.

Get used to just one of the many mysteries in life.

Ha, ha........................ what the freak difference would ANY explanation make? <=== Thats a real question to you Lance. What difference would any 100% accurate answer make to you or anyone else? And that being the case......... there is no need for it.

Silly Hooman.
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Re: Las Vegas

Post by Cadmusteeth » Fri Oct 27, 2017 9:56 pm

I think I know the best term for you. User Unfriendly.
(That wasn't meant to be be an insult, I'm just pointing out that you're prickly.)

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Re: Las Vegas

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Fri Oct 27, 2017 10:41 pm

Teeth: I take prickly as a compliment. Note how like most reviews, its says more about the reviewer than the observed.

Criticism is like that. (One finger at me, three back at you.)

...................once you have accurately handled the obvious.............do you go any deeper?
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Re: Las Vegas

Post by TJrandom » Sat Oct 28, 2017 12:23 am

I don`t have any special insight or data, but it seems to me that he was a law abiding citizen who had legally accumulated his guns and just felt a need to use them - for their intended use - to kill people.

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Re: Las Vegas

Post by Matthew Ellard » Sat Oct 28, 2017 1:26 am

Lance Kennedy wrote:Bit short on details of psychology. I was wondering if someone who actually knows what he is talking about, who has done enough research, has come up with a credible, and data backed idea.
As Paddock is dead and there will be no prosecution, I imagine the FBI will slowly collate evidence simply for their profiling data base. The FBI is still one of the world leading experts on serial killer and aberrant criminal behaviour.

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Re: Las Vegas

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Sat Oct 28, 2017 1:44 am

TJrandom wrote:I don`t have any special insight or data, but it seems to me that he was a law abiding citizen who had legally accumulated his guns and just felt a need to use them - for their intended use - to kill people.
This thread is NOT about Trump.
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Re: Las Vegas

Post by Lance Kennedy » Sat Oct 28, 2017 3:35 am

Just curious.

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Re: Las Vegas

Post by TJrandom » Sat Oct 28, 2017 8:29 am

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:
TJrandom wrote:I don`t have any special insight or data, but it seems to me that he was a law abiding citizen who had legally accumulated his guns and just felt a need to use them - for their intended use - to kill people.
This thread is NOT about Trump.
I wasn`t thinking about NK... or nukes.

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Re: Las Vegas

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Sat Oct 28, 2017 8:35 am

TJ: Mere coincidence then that you very closely paraphrased news reports that ran for about 3 days re Trump asking his Generals why we couldn't use Nukes. "We have them, why shouldn't we use them." is my recollection. I doubt I will ever google for anything Trump says for an exact quote.................
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Re: Las Vegas

Post by TJrandom » Sat Oct 28, 2017 9:19 am

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:TJ: Mere coincidence then that you very closely paraphrased news reports that ran for about 3 days re Trump asking his Generals why we couldn't use Nukes. "We have them, why shouldn't we use them." is my recollection. I doubt I will ever google for anything Trump says for an exact quote.................
Yes... but I was serious on the LasVegas shooter - he had them, so just needed to use them as intended - IMO.

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Re: Las Vegas

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Sat Oct 28, 2017 5:11 pm

Seriously silly. the other 9 Million Flag Worshipping Red Blooded Americans with more than 12 guns each are refraining from such action........................ but ..................... they might just be...................... stewing.
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Re: Las Vegas

Post by Lance Kennedy » Sat Oct 28, 2017 6:27 pm

Of course, Bobbo, those "red blooded " gun owners are more likely to use those guns on themselves than someone else.

I came across a reference recently which suggests a parallel to that. One of the very highest rates of suicide is found in veterinarian surgeons. They kill themselves at four times the rate of the general population. While part of that reason might be stress, a big part is access to easy means of suicide. Since most suicide is impulsive, vets are more likely to do it, when finding things are on top of them, and they grab the trusty syringe of nembutol, and that is it. All over. Exactly the same applies to anyone who has a loaded hand gun readily at hand.

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Re: Las Vegas

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Sat Oct 28, 2017 7:18 pm

Lance..... that is an interesting factoid you introduce and very much in line with Las Vegas: why would anyone "rich" kill themselves?.............Ha, ha..........for a mere $10K I offer my back bedroom for any such millionaires or rich vets to come and stay a week with ME.........ME, Me, Me, me, mee, meeee, eeeeeeeeeeeeeeee.

Everyone will feel better by compairson..........money well spent.

so...in case you were flattened by the sarcasm: yes.........easy access is one issue, but the WHY of it all is more interesting. Dentists generally get the rap about rich but suicidal...given their jobs are mindless repetition. Vets I would have thought would be quite the opposite.....like obstetricians, more joy inherent in their day to day work?

Hmmmm..... but that evil thing you call data disagrees. Trump =NOT= suicidal. Just more evidence he is NUTS, projecting his insanity into the rest of us.

What a fine day................now, where did I put that nembutol?
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Re: Las Vegas

Post by Lance Kennedy » Sat Oct 28, 2017 7:41 pm

Vet suicide rate is twice that of dentists, which in turn is double that of the general population.

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Re: Las Vegas

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Sat Oct 28, 2017 8:09 pm

Lance Kennedy wrote:Vet suicide rate is twice that of dentists, which in turn is double that of the general population.
Thats very surprising. On no basis at all, I wonder if the stat is wrong in some basic/definitional/sampling way? Either that or its the guilt feelings over time from molesting the poor dumb defenseless animals when they are under anesthesia. You guess who I'm talking about..................
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Re: Las Vegas

Post by Lance Kennedy » Sat Oct 28, 2017 8:41 pm

Sorrow more than guilt. Most vets are animal lovers and having to euthanase animals must hurt. Also, they get all kinds of emotional attacks from bereaved pet owners.

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Re: Las Vegas

Post by TJrandom » Sun Oct 29, 2017 12:16 am

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:Seriously silly. the other 9 Million Flag Worshipping Red Blooded Americans with more than 12 guns each are refraining from such action........................ but ..................... they might just be...................... stewing.
Exactly - all just waiting for their moment in the sun.

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Re: Las Vegas

Post by Aztexan » Tue Oct 31, 2017 8:24 pm

Some of us are cleaning our guns and loading them and waiting to see how the Mueller investigation concludes...
trump is Putin's bitch

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Re: Las Vegas

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Tue Oct 31, 2017 8:33 pm

Aztexan cleaning and loading his gun
I fear not totally in fun
Those of his ilk
Not ready for silk
Would, that his attitude was done.
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Re: Las Vegas

Post by Gawdzilla Sama » Tue Oct 31, 2017 8:52 pm

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Re: Las Vegas

Post by Gord » Wed Nov 01, 2017 8:29 pm

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/nationa ... -1.3591391
A Canadian man who survived getting shot in the head during the massacre at a Las Vegas country music festival has been bombarded with death threats from online conspiracy theorists....

...“You are a lying piece of s--- and I hope someone truly shoots you in the head,” one person wrote to Matejka on Facebook in the days after the worst shooting in modern U.S. history.

Another wrote: “Your soul is disgusting and dark! You will Pay for the consequences.”...

...Conspiracy theorists, many of whom believe the government staged the Oct. 1 shooting or that it did not happen at all, have targeted survivors, dubbing them “crisis actors,” hired to pose as victims....
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Re: Las Vegas

Post by TJrandom » Thu Nov 02, 2017 6:36 am

So sad...

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Re: Las Vegas

Post by Cadmusteeth » Fri Nov 03, 2017 3:36 am

Laws should be updated as to what constitutes harassment.

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Re: Las Vegas

Post by xouper » Mon Nov 06, 2017 8:36 am

Lance Kennedy wrote:. . . Xouper, though, has succombed to the propaganda put out by those who make megabucks selling guns.
For the record, that is an outright lie, and is yet another instance of a pattern of harassment and libel.

Shame on you, Lance.

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Re: Las Vegas

Post by TJrandom » Mon Nov 06, 2017 8:42 am

Now Texas...

Another good `ol boy – wife beater, child abuser, but yet a legal purchaser of his assault rifle – this time in Texas.

And Trump says… we have a mental health issue at the highest level… so very true.

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Re: Las Vegas

Post by Gord » Mon Nov 06, 2017 8:46 am

xouper wrote:
Lance Kennedy wrote:. . . Xouper, though, has succombed to the propaganda put out by those who make megabucks selling guns.
For the record, that is an outright lie, and is yet another instance of a pattern of harassment and libel.

Shame on you, Lance.
Also, he misspelt "succumbed". :P
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