Lead poisoning.

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Lance Kennedy
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Lead poisoning.

Postby Lance Kennedy » Thu Apr 06, 2017 7:24 pm

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2 ... ce+News%29

Turns out that firing guns a lot in firing ranges leads to a dangerous build up of lead in the human body. Lead leads to brain damage.

Maybe we got it the wrong way around. Maybe it is not insanity that causes a person to be a gun enthusiast. Maybe it is being a gun enthusiast that makes them insane.

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Re: Lead poisoning.

Postby TJrandom » Fri Apr 07, 2017 9:53 am

Need to get the lead out....

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Re: Lead poisoning.

Postby Ranb » Mon Dec 04, 2017 4:30 am

Lance Kennedy wrote:https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2017/04/170405101950.htm?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+sciencedaily%2Ftop_news%2Ftop_science+%28ScienceDaily%3A+Top+Science+News%29

Turns out that firing guns a lot in firing ranges leads to a dangerous build up of lead in the human body. Lead leads to brain damage.

Maybe we got it the wrong way around. Maybe it is not insanity that causes a person to be a gun enthusiast. Maybe it is being a gun enthusiast that makes them insane.

Every time someone fires their weapon, lead fragments and fumes are discharged at high pressure. Shooters then breathe in the metal, while other particles stick to their hands and are swallowed through smoking and eating.

This statement is misleading. Cast bullets are not normally used. Most are swaged with full metal jackets. Even hollow point bullets don't leave lead in the barrel from the bullet.

The primary source is the lead in the primer which goes airborne. This is a real problem and it is foolhardy to use an indoor range that is not properly ventilated.

Another problem is reloaders who clean and re-use their brass and those who cast their own bullets. With proper PPE they will have excessive blood lad levels..

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Re: Lead poisoning.

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Mon Dec 04, 2017 4:34 am

Link is not about bullets but about firing guns........the same point you made calling the statement misleading.

so.......firing guns especially indoors "is a real problem."

Looks like Lance gets 4 thumbs up. and for their own good......firing ranges should be more closely regulated.?
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Re: Lead poisoning.

Postby Ranb » Mon Dec 04, 2017 4:47 am

Let me guess, you didn't actually read the linked article? It says lead bullets should be phased out. Phasing out lead primers would solve most of the problem.

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Re: Lead poisoning.

Postby TJrandom » Mon Dec 04, 2017 6:18 am

It has been maybe 30 years since I was in the US and fired guns - but the 357, 22, and shot guns used lead projectiles. This may well have changed, and of course I wasn`t shooting at a range - so I was well ventilated, as was what I shot.

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Re: Lead poisoning.

Postby Phoenix76 » Mon Dec 04, 2017 10:42 am

Lance Kennedy wrote:https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2017/04/170405101950.htm?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+sciencedaily%2Ftop_news%2Ftop_science+%28ScienceDaily%3A+Top+Science+News%29

Turns out that firing guns a lot in firing ranges leads to a dangerous build up of lead in the human body. Lead leads to brain damage.

Maybe we got it the wrong way around. Maybe it is not insanity that causes a person to be a gun enthusiast. Maybe it is being a gun enthusiast that makes them insane.


So Lance, where does that leave the ex or current serving soldier who can fire an immense number of rounds?? I know I did, and I'm sure most vets on this forum would be the same. I will hotly dispute brain damage in my own case, although many might dispute that :? And yes I read your link, but I'm not convinced, except maybe a firing range in an enclosed facility. But I say maybe.

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Re: Lead poisoning.

Postby Ranb » Mon Dec 04, 2017 3:03 pm

TJrandom wrote:It has been maybe 30 years since I was in the US and fired guns - but the 357, 22, and shot guns used lead projectiles. This may well have changed, and of course I wasn`t shooting at a range - so I was well ventilated, as was what I shot.

I should have been more specific in my post. Most rifle and handgun ammo has a copper jacket which protects the base of the bullet from the gas flame and eliminates lead buildup on the rifling. There are some FMJ rifle bullets with unprotected bases such as some 7.62 and 5.56 ammo used by the military. These are not usually seen at indoor ranges. Shotgun ammo is usually lead shot, but also normally used outdoors as are the cast lead slugs.

22lr ammo used in the smaller guns and in Olympic shooting normally has a wax coating for the subsonic ammo, the higher velocity stuff is usually plated. In either case there is little lead buildup in the barrel compared to guns using center fire cartridges. The lead in the primer which goes airborne remains the primary source of lead which is inhaled. Gas operated rifles that use direct impingement are especially able to blow lead laden gases into the face of the shooter.

I've read about indoor ranges in which kids were exposed to lead higher than recommended. As far as I know it was due to poor or non-existent ventilation and poor hygiene; not washing prior to eating after shooting.

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Re: Lead poisoning.

Postby Matthew Ellard » Mon Dec 04, 2017 9:36 pm

Phoenix76 wrote:So Lance, where does that leave the ex or current serving soldier who can fire an immense number of rounds??

Off Topic
There's lead in soil in normal suburbs, from earlier car fuels and lead paint. People use that same soil for their market gardens and backyard herb and vege patches. The EPA in NSW has just launched a campaign to warn people about lead in home grown food. They suggest you only use potting mix which is checked to be lead free.

I just thought this was interesting because there are lots of different sources of lead and it would be hard for an ex serviceman to initiate a compensation claim, for lead, from their firearm usage. On the other hand, the RAAF is in deep poo for contamination from older style fire retardants, so perhaps you may want to mention something to Vet Affairs, just to see if they have any data.
:D

PS. You may be able to write in informal query, to determine if there is any existing data, at the ADF health portal. At least that may identify a potential problem.
http://www.defence.gov.au/Health/HealthPortal/

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Re: Lead poisoning.

Postby Aztexan » Mon Dec 04, 2017 10:05 pm

Osama bin Laden was killed by lead poisoning, so it's not all bad.
trump is literally a piece of {!#%@}.

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Re: Lead poisoning.

Postby TJrandom » Mon Dec 04, 2017 10:53 pm

Ranb - could you expand a bit on the lead in the primer? Why is it there? Maybe used as a lubricant when inserting the primer into the casing? Some other purpose?

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Re: Lead poisoning.

Postby Ranb » Tue Dec 05, 2017 1:43 am

The compound used to create the primer flame is lead styphnate. The primer is the primary explosive to make the secondary propellant (the powder) undergo chemical decomposition https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lead_styphnate If you ever tried to light a small pile of smokeless powder you will see it does not roar to life like gasoline vapors will. On the other hand black powder is an actual explosive which is why it costs more to ship and substitutes that are safe to use in old muzzle loading rifles were developed.

Prior to WWII fulminate of mercury was commonly used, but like many mercury compounds it is very corrosive and somewhat toxic. No matter how well a gun was oiled it would rust unless thoroughly cleaned. It was replaced with lead styphnate. But like leaded gasoline and leaded paint, there are problems. Until a good substitute is found, it will most likely remain in use.

There are lead free primers out there; they don't perform as well I hear. http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/201 ... mer-tests/


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