50 dead in Florida

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Re: 50 dead in Florida

Postby psychiatry is a scam » Thu Aug 18, 2016 10:21 pm

Paul Anthony wrote:
psychiatry is a scam wrote:
there is the idea that if someone has the skill ; not using full auto is more lethal . one round per person - as opposed to spraying without aiming .
just guessing , best way is to have 2 / 30 round magazines taped together .


He'd need more than that to kill 50 and injure another 50. That's 100 rounds, but only if he never missed. I've never met anyone who could fire 100 times and never miss.


there is a video demo on how he could have had 7 magazines for the rifle and 3 magazines for the hand gun for a total of 264 rounds.

regrettably I can no longer include a link .

William Munny / Clint Eastwood could walk into a bar and not miss .
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Re: 50 dead in Florida

Postby psychiatry is a scam » Thu Aug 18, 2016 10:27 pm

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:
gorgeous wrote:I agree...how did one person kill and shoot so many?

Supposedly, he pulled his finger many times. Fairly obvious....no?


there is a video - active shooter safety video , that explains why -
mainly people have not thought about what to do in a life threatening situation .
you have to think about it before and plan before . when it happens it will be harder to make a rational decision .

example - in any building you have to have a plan of how to get out if there is a fire or gun shots .
where are the exits ?

bad example - one person runs into the men's room - herd mentality - , everyone follows him
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makes sense 2me , so it has 2be wrong .

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Re: 50 dead in Florida

Postby TJrandom » Thu Aug 18, 2016 11:11 pm

Paul Anthony wrote: The type of guns most often targeted for banning are AR-15 and weapons similar to them.

Since you have "a lot of facts about suicide at my fingertips" please tell us how many suicides are committed with so-called assault weapons. Then tell us how the suicide rate will be reduced by banning assault weapons. Hey, let's expand on this. How many suicides will be prevented by banning weapons that hold more than 10 rounds, 'cause we all know people who commit suicide need to fire lots of rounds. :roll:


As you well know, the call to ban assault weapons isn`t related to suicide - which is exactly why you ask this question. Please try to at least fake honesty.

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Re: 50 dead in Florida

Postby psychiatry is a scam » Thu Aug 18, 2016 11:16 pm

TJrandom wrote:
Paul Anthony wrote: The type of guns most often targeted for banning are AR-15 and weapons similar to them.

Since you have "a lot of facts about suicide at my fingertips" please tell us how many suicides are committed with so-called assault weapons. Then tell us how the suicide rate will be reduced by banning assault weapons. Hey, let's expand on this. How many suicides will be prevented by banning weapons that hold more than 10 rounds, 'cause we all know people who commit suicide need to fire lots of rounds. :roll:


As you well know, the call to ban assault weapons isn`t related to suicide - which is exactly why you ask this question. Please try to at least fake honesty.


actually it is a type of suicide - suicide by swat team .
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Re: 50 dead in Florida

Postby TJrandom » Thu Aug 18, 2016 11:18 pm

psychiatry is a scam wrote:
TJrandom wrote:
Paul Anthony wrote: The type of guns most often targeted for banning are AR-15 and weapons similar to them.

Since you have "a lot of facts about suicide at my fingertips" please tell us how many suicides are committed with so-called assault weapons. Then tell us how the suicide rate will be reduced by banning assault weapons. Hey, let's expand on this. How many suicides will be prevented by banning weapons that hold more than 10 rounds, 'cause we all know people who commit suicide need to fire lots of rounds. :roll:


As you well know, the call to ban assault weapons isn`t related to suicide - which is exactly why you ask this question. Please try to at least fake honesty.


actually it is a type of suicide - suicide by swat team .


Maybe, but it doesn`t get counted as such in the statistics.

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Re: 50 dead in Florida

Postby Paul Anthony » Fri Aug 19, 2016 1:28 am

TJrandom wrote:
Paul Anthony wrote: The type of guns most often targeted for banning are AR-15 and weapons similar to them.

Since you have "a lot of facts about suicide at my fingertips" please tell us how many suicides are committed with so-called assault weapons. Then tell us how the suicide rate will be reduced by banning assault weapons. Hey, let's expand on this. How many suicides will be prevented by banning weapons that hold more than 10 rounds, 'cause we all know people who commit suicide need to fire lots of rounds. :roll:


As you well know, the call to ban assault weapons isn`t related to suicide - which is exactly why you ask this question. Please try to at least fake honesty.


You want honesty? How about admitting you want to ban all guns and talk of banning assault rifles is only the first step in a larger plan?

Do you really care that some people are so miserable that they want to commit suicide, or are you just eager to use it as another excuse to attack guns?
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Re: 50 dead in Florida

Postby TJrandom » Fri Aug 19, 2016 1:43 am

Paul Anthony wrote:
TJrandom wrote:
Paul Anthony wrote: The type of guns most often targeted for banning are AR-15 and weapons similar to them.

Since you have "a lot of facts about suicide at my fingertips" please tell us how many suicides are committed with so-called assault weapons. Then tell us how the suicide rate will be reduced by banning assault weapons. Hey, let's expand on this. How many suicides will be prevented by banning weapons that hold more than 10 rounds, 'cause we all know people who commit suicide need to fire lots of rounds. :roll:


As you well know, the call to ban assault weapons isn`t related to suicide - which is exactly why you ask this question. Please try to at least fake honesty.


You want honesty? How about admitting you want to ban all guns and talk of banning assault rifles is only the first step in a larger plan?

Do you really care that some people are so miserable that they want to commit suicide, or are you just eager to use it as another excuse to attack guns?


Maybe even in this thread - I have said that I would support a ban on handguns and military type weapons - except for police, but allow handguns for range use/competitive shooters. Hunters should be OK to own and use rifles and shotguns for hunting. Ammo purchases need to be tracked and limited. Weapons need to always locked away in an approved gun safe until readied for legal use, etc. Reasonable stuff IMO.

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Re: 50 dead in Florida

Postby psychiatry is a scam » Fri Aug 19, 2016 2:20 am

TJrandom wrote:
Paul Anthony wrote:
TJrandom wrote:
Paul Anthony wrote: The type of guns most often targeted for banning are AR-15 and weapons similar to them.

Since you have "a lot of facts about suicide at my fingertips" please tell us how many suicides are committed with so-called assault weapons. Then tell us how the suicide rate will be reduced by banning assault weapons. Hey, let's expand on this. How many suicides will be prevented by banning weapons that hold more than 10 rounds, 'cause we all know people who commit suicide need to fire lots of rounds. :roll:


As you well know, the call to ban assault weapons isn`t related to suicide - which is exactly why you ask this question. Please try to at least fake honesty.


You want honesty? How about admitting you want to ban all guns and talk of banning assault rifles is only the first step in a larger plan?

Do you really care that some people are so miserable that they want to commit suicide, or are you just eager to use it as another excuse to attack guns?


Maybe even in this thread - I have said that I would support a ban on handguns and military type weapons - except for police, but allow handguns for range use/competitive shooters. Hunters should be OK to own and use rifles and shotguns for hunting. Ammo purchases need to be tracked and limited. Weapons need to always locked away in an approved gun safe until readied for legal use, etc. Reasonable stuff IMO.


ammo tracked and limited ??? would create illegal production of ammo ; similar if not exactly like drugs .
would create a whole new class of criminals - people / gun nuts who did not want to be criminals , but were forced by this new prohibition .
good ideas do not work . sorry im in a bad mood and rant a lot when :-/
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Re: 50 dead in Florida

Postby Matthew Ellard » Fri Aug 19, 2016 2:32 am

psychiatry is a scam wrote:ammo tracked and limited ??? would create illegal production of ammo


Show me one example of a home made 5.56mm full metal bullet?

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Re: 50 dead in Florida

Postby Paul Anthony » Fri Aug 19, 2016 2:47 am

Matthew Ellard wrote:
psychiatry is a scam wrote:ammo tracked and limited ??? would create illegal production of ammo


Show me one example of a home made 5.56mm full metal bullet?


During Prohibition, some people figured out how to make whiskey. Others found a way to import it illegally.
Despite the War on Drugs, some people figured out how to make meth. Others found a way to import heroin.
But you think you can regulate ammo.

Typical naive liberal.
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Re: 50 dead in Florida

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Fri Aug 19, 2016 3:07 am

Of course you can regulate ammo. Just like everything else. And just like everything else: OUR CURRENT REGULATIONS have their pros and cons just as would any other new regulation.

Point is: you make regulations rationally related to the subject and goals sought and then you modify according to experience.

Its not naive to think this cannot be done. Its blithering stoopid.
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Re: 50 dead in Florida

Postby TJrandom » Fri Aug 19, 2016 3:11 am

psychiatry is a scam wrote: ... ammo tracked and limited ??? would create illegal production of ammo ; similar if not exactly like drugs .
would create a whole new class of criminals - people / gun nuts who did not want to be criminals , but were forced by this new prohibition .
good ideas do not work . sorry im in a bad mood and rant a lot when :-/


Those who would `become criminals` - are already criminals, if not in deed, then by character. Non-criminals obey the laws - period. Like drugs? Yes indeed - much like illegal drugs. Criminals.

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Re: 50 dead in Florida

Postby TJrandom » Fri Aug 19, 2016 3:13 am

Paul Anthony wrote:
Matthew Ellard wrote:
psychiatry is a scam wrote:ammo tracked and limited ??? would create illegal production of ammo


Show me one example of a home made 5.56mm full metal bullet?


During Prohibition, some people figured out how to make whiskey. Others found a way to import it illegally.
Despite the War on Drugs, some people figured out how to make meth. Others found a way to import heroin.
But you think you can regulate ammo.

Typical naive liberal.


Those were all criminals. Liberal for sure, but not naive.

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Re: 50 dead in Florida

Postby Matthew Ellard » Fri Aug 19, 2016 3:21 am

Paul Anthony wrote:During Prohibition, some people figured out how to make whiskey. Others found a way to import it illegally.

Despite the War on Drugs, some people figured out how to make meth. Others found a way to import heroin.
But you think you can regulate ammo.

Typical naive liberal.


During the war on Child pornography people still made and distributed child pornographic movies.

Are you saying "Let's not bother?" for the same reasons as your other excuses? Fascinating.

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Re: 50 dead in Florida

Postby Paul Anthony » Fri Aug 19, 2016 6:22 am

Matthew Ellard wrote:
Paul Anthony wrote:During Prohibition, some people figured out how to make whiskey. Others found a way to import it illegally.

Despite the War on Drugs, some people figured out how to make meth. Others found a way to import heroin.
But you think you can regulate ammo.

Typical naive liberal.


During the war on Child pornography people still made and distributed child pornographic movies.

Are you saying "Let's not bother?" for the same reasons as your other excuses? Fascinating.


Of course not. Nothing wrong with attempting to regulate things, but it is naive to think that you can stop the traffic with new regulations.
Silly liberals.
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Re: 50 dead in Florida

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Fri Aug 19, 2016 6:39 am

Paul Anthony wrote:,,,,Nothing wrong with attempting to regulate things, but it is naive to think that you can stop the traffic with new regulations.
Silly liberals.


changing directions and not thinking anyone will notice....or did you notice yourself and think this was a smooth skid mark?

What you first said was:
But you think you can regulate ammo. Typical naive liberal.


.........................BUT I HAVE NO DOUBT... it won't take long for you to post the same nonsense on another topic. You see Paulie... TO LEARN, you have to clearly recognize when you are wrong and what the correction was. Otherwise..... you'll just be in a non-thinking rut of RigntWingNut silliness.

Your own brain actually performs much better than your "self presentation". You could work on that if you wanted to....but that is the nature of being in a rut.
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Re: 50 dead in Florida

Postby Lance Kennedy » Fri Aug 19, 2016 8:53 pm

Paul

You are trying to be smart by twisting the argument. No one has suggested that assault weapons contribute much to suicides. My own take is, and always has been, that the top priority should be to eliminate hand guns from private possession. Hand guns are the main killer, both in homicide and suicide.

THe focus on assault weapons is largely emotional, not rational. Assault weapons are nasty and should be eliminated also, but not as a top priority. Get rid of hand guns first.

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Re: 50 dead in Florida

Postby psychiatry is a scam » Fri Aug 19, 2016 10:12 pm

Matthew Ellard wrote:
psychiatry is a scam wrote:ammo tracked and limited ??? would create illegal production of ammo


Show me one example of a home made 5.56mm full metal bullet?


was thinking more about reloading - but a search for homemade 5.56 full metal bullet got over 20k results

and a search for 5.56 fmj got over 27k

but in the search results there are people who are trying to make illegal armor piercing rounds

and there are people who make their own bullets today , even though it is financially not worth the time .

a better question wood bee - show me a question that actually gets only one google hit
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Re: 50 dead in Florida

Postby TJrandom » Fri Aug 19, 2016 10:25 pm

No results found for "What gets only one google hit?". :)

That is - just one response - maybe not a hit.

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Re: 50 dead in Florida

Postby Paul Anthony » Fri Aug 19, 2016 11:18 pm

Lance Kennedy wrote:Paul

You are trying to be smart by twisting the argument. No one has suggested that assault weapons contribute much to suicides. My own take is, and always has been, that the top priority should be to eliminate hand guns from private possession. Hand guns are the main killer, both in homicide and suicide.

THe focus on assault weapons is largely emotional, not rational. Assault weapons are nasty and should be eliminated also, but not as a top priority. Get rid of hand guns first.


At least you are being honest...and logical...about the issue. I may disagree, but I respect you for stating what so many won't.

"Assault weapons" are rifles designed to look like military weapons. They are scary looking, thus an emotion-inspiring subject. It is because it's easier to get a majority to dislike scary-looking things that the focus is on banning assault weapons. Doing so will accomplish very little, but once that has been successful, the next step will be a little easier. Banning hand guns. (Even though that should have been the first step).

No one wants to hear about another toddler who finds a gun and shoots themselves or a sibling. That gun would be a hand gun. I can't imagine a toddler lifting any kind of rifle, let alone reaching the trigger. And although it may be possible to commit suicide with a rifle, it can't be easy. In both cases, the number of rounds the gun holds is irrelevant, so banning everything above 10 rounds will also accomplish little.

As I said, your thinking is logical. Accomplishing your goal will still be difficult, but I would be a little more inclined to agree if those who would ban guns would stop using scare tactics and base their arguments on facts, as you have.
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Re: 50 dead in Florida

Postby psychiatry is a scam » Sat Aug 20, 2016 12:55 am

google - Jews never again - think about it ; actually pass a law that makes a lot of guns , hand guns , rifles - illegal .

and Jews , blacks , Arabs , lgbt , wt , etc . are going to comply ?

you can have a lot of good reasons to not have a gun in your own home . but :burn:
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Re: 50 dead in Florida

Postby TJrandom » Sat Aug 20, 2016 1:20 am

psychiatry is a scam wrote:google - Jews never again - think about it ; actually pass a law that makes a lot of guns , hand guns , rifles - illegal .

and Jews , blacks , Arabs , lgbt , wt , etc . are going to comply ?

you can have a lot of good reasons to not have a gun in your own home . but :burn:


Of course they are going to comply. If they don`t, they are not one of those labels you list, but rather are simply criminals.

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Re: 50 dead in Florida

Postby psychiatry is a scam » Sat Aug 20, 2016 1:36 am

TJrandom wrote:
psychiatry is a scam wrote:google - Jews never again - think about it ; actually pass a law that makes a lot of guns , hand guns , rifles - illegal .

and Jews , blacks , Arabs , lgbt , wt , etc . are going to comply ?

you can have a lot of good reasons to not have a gun in your own home . but :burn:


Of course they are going to comply. If they don`t, they are not one of those labels you list, but rather are simply criminals.


your right --- criminals the same way they were criminals in Nazi Germany .
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Re: 50 dead in Florida

Postby TJrandom » Sat Aug 20, 2016 1:51 am

Is that what you are promoting - armed revolt against the elected government? If so, probably best to retain that gun and be a criminal.

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Re: 50 dead in Florida

Postby Lance Kennedy » Sat Aug 20, 2016 1:59 am

Paul

Thank you for your last comments. It appears that you are also able to think rationally.

PIAS

Your comments are not backed up by facts. Most western nations have severe restrictions on hand gun ownership, and those restrictions are obeyed by almost all citizens. This shows that such restrictions are possible and practical, because they have been implemented successfully. Even when criminals get hold of hand guns, they do not carry them, since that is a recipe for arrest and imprisonment.

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Re: 50 dead in Florida

Postby psychiatry is a scam » Sat Aug 20, 2016 2:14 am

Lance Kennedy wrote:Paul

Thank you for your last comments. It appears that you are also able to think rationally.

PIAS

Your comments are not backed up by facts. Most western nations have severe restrictions on hand gun ownership, and those restrictions are obeyed by almost all citizens. This shows that such restrictions are possible and practical, because they have been implemented successfully. Even when criminals get hold of hand guns, they do not carry them, since that is a recipe for arrest and imprisonment.



argumentum ad hominem

its Friday nite :-(
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Re: 50 dead in Florida

Postby psychiatry is a scam » Sat Aug 20, 2016 3:19 am

TJrandom wrote:No results found for "What gets only one google hit?". :)

That is - just one response - maybe not a hit.


nothing new in cyberspace :-/

Googlewhack / gary stock / 1-8-2002
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Re: 50 dead in Florida

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Sat Aug 20, 2016 3:47 am

TJrandom wrote:No results found for "What gets only one google hit?". :)

That is - just one response - maybe not a hit.

That used to be a google game to play: what word combos come up with just ONE hit. I often get zero hits or "not found" which I find somewhat suspect given the common words I'm using, mostly consumer search questions. I wonder if zero returns means you've hit some kind of filter rather than in the universe of the internet the word combo does not appear?
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Re: 50 dead in Florida

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Sat Aug 20, 2016 3:54 am

Its completely rational to go after assault style rifles first as the most rational target. The total number of deaths is much less than hand guns in the total picture but when it comes to "mass murders" (4 or more at a time) THAT is when AR comes to the fore. Why not ban weapons that are the most used for mass murders?

Laws are made for what they do as well as the statements they make. You ban bullets in an attempt to make them harder to get which any ban would do. But it is just as important to make the statement that our society does not support the use of such bullets.

Its all a mix of many issues. The unhinged will focus on ONE issue only...two if they are real sophisticated. One issue is good for bumperstickers, labeling, talking points, getting out the vote, herding the masses.

Just look.
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Re: 50 dead in Florida

Postby Matthew Ellard » Sat Aug 20, 2016 6:05 am

psychiatry is a scam wrote: but a search for homemade 5.56 full metal bullet got over 20k results

and a search for 5.56 fmj got over 27k
Yet you cannot find one actual web page that tells you how to make your own 5.56mm full metal jacket bullet, which is what I asked for. :lol:

Do you understand why you cannot make AR-15 5.56mm ammo at home? Think really hard.

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Re: 50 dead in Florida

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Sat Aug 20, 2016 6:57 am

I thought really hard.... and I don't believe it. Yes, ignorance based as I'm sure you have a reason...but why any good "machinist" could not produce "anything" is beyond me. And if not "exactly" what you demand.... how about close enough as in interchangeable with whatever drawbacks the home made product would have?

Don't answer now...but I'm interested in your reasoning....eventually.
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Re: 50 dead in Florida

Postby psychiatry is a scam » Sat Aug 20, 2016 9:00 pm

Matthew Ellard wrote:
psychiatry is a scam wrote: but a search for homemade 5.56 full metal bullet got over 20k results

and a search for 5.56 fmj got over 27k
Yet you cannot find one actual web page that tells you how to make your own 5.56mm full metal jacket bullet, which is what I asked for. :lol:

Do you understand why you cannot make AR-15 5.56mm ammo at home? Think really hard.


because I am lazy , stupid , and no where close to being a good machinist .

as you can see here I am thinking really hard :burn:
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Re: 50 dead in Florida

Postby psychiatry is a scam » Sun Aug 21, 2016 12:19 am

Matthew Ellard wrote:
psychiatry is a scam wrote:ammo tracked and limited ??? would create illegal production of ammo


Show me one example of a home made 5.56mm full metal bullet?


dis is wat u actually asked for , ?
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Re: 50 dead in Florida

Postby Matthew Ellard » Sun Aug 21, 2016 2:00 am

Matthew Ellard wrote:Do you understand why you cannot make AR-15 5.56mm ammo at home? Think really hard.
psychiatry is a scam wrote:because I am lazy , stupid , and no where close to being a good machinist . as you can see here I am thinking really hard :burn:


Well the Germans, during WWII, who are not lazy and stupid like you, had to decentralise ordinance manufacturing due to the bombing campaign. It is from the Germans we know the minimum requirements to mass produce bullets. You simply cannot produce consistent functional high velocity bullets at home

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Re: 50 dead in Florida

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Sun Aug 21, 2016 3:00 am

Ha, ha.....so you can do it. Its a volume thing? How many bullets does a mass murderer need?

Answer:

Spoiler:
Only 4 if each one counts. Its definitional.
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Re: 50 dead in Florida

Postby Matthew Ellard » Sun Aug 21, 2016 6:20 am

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:Ha, ha.....so you can do it. Its a volume thing? How many bullets does a mass murderer need?
Not mass production, but rather two bullets of exactly the same quality sitting next to each other in a magazine. Automatic fire becomes useless unless there is homogeneous quality in all the bullets.

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Re: 50 dead in Florida

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Sun Aug 21, 2016 11:30 am

You mean less effective as if its needed at all firing into a crowd?
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Re: 50 dead in Florida

Postby psychiatry is a scam » Sun Aug 21, 2016 1:14 pm

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:You mean less effective as if its needed at all firing into a crowd?


I see 2 questionable words - rifles are not automatic , they are semi auto .

and useless ??? I can not imagine how a good rifle would not function as long as each round is ok .
how can a rifle tell if one bullet is perfect and the next one is not ?

the only explanation for his comments -- LULZ ---
for the real minority ; there will be no justice , there will be no peace .
makes sense 2me , so it has 2be wrong .

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Re: 50 dead in Florida

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Sun Aug 21, 2016 1:27 pm

Well Psyche..... I'd love to agree with you, you agreeing with me and all.... but I don't grok what you are saying. Of course bullet uniformity is beneficial for accuracy in firing. but other than long range sniping--I don't see accuracy of the extreme type as relevant.

but Matts challenge was to understand why making said bullet was so hard if not impossible. Impliedly, he has stepped back from that proposition, but with Matt its hard to tell as he never admits to a lie, a misstatement, or a slip..... like an off balance bullet.
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Re: 50 dead in Florida

Postby psychiatry is a scam » Sun Aug 21, 2016 1:50 pm

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:Well Psyche..... I'd love to agree with you, you agreeing with me and all.... but I don't grok what you are saying. Of course bullet uniformity is beneficial for accuracy in firing. but other than long range sniping--I don't see accuracy of the extreme type as relevant.

but Matts challenge was to understand why making said bullet was so hard if not impossible. Impliedly, he has stepped back from that proposition, but with Matt its hard to tell as he never admits to a lie, a misstatement, or a slip..... like an off balance bullet.


By --- useless --- I think he is claiming that the rifle will jam if bullets are not similar

and LULZ means he luvs to argue
for the real minority ; there will be no justice , there will be no peace .
makes sense 2me , so it has 2be wrong .


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