Whats the main variable in being a Sniper?

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Re: Whats the main variable in being a Sniper?

Postby Gawdzilla Sama » Thu Jun 30, 2016 4:21 pm

I was completely unsubtle about using Ma Deuce. If you wished to abuse the gun and the loaders could keep up you could put 82 pounds of lead a minute in the air, and I swung a dual mount. I thought in terms of "area targets", bringing the rain to positions rather than individuals. I'm still alive, so perhaps that was actually as effective as I thought it was.
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Re: Whats the main variable in being a Sniper?

Postby Blacksamwell » Thu Jun 30, 2016 4:37 pm

I've read of an engineering team that applied the concept of rapid fire to win precision rifle competitions by leveraging loopholes in the rules. They built an electronically fired "gun" that they bolted to the bench. It had a barrel that was something like 5 inches in diameter to tune out barrel vibrations and all 5 shots were packed into the barrel at once starting with powder then a bullet, then powder, then a bullet like a muzzle loader that's been loaded 5 times. An electronic system fired the charges starting with the one at the front such that all 5 shots exited the barrel almost at once and flew down range just inches behind each other. The idea being that all 5 bullets will experience the same conditions on the way to the target and therefore will all fly through the same hole. To follow the rules that required no automatic fire, they programmed the system to not fire until a "shooter"had pulled the trigger 5 times, one for each bullet. Then it would burp out the rounds and while the other shooters spent the rest of the day waiting for conditions to be right for follow up shots, this team would pack up and start drinking beer in the parking lot and wait for the trophy.

So... With the right setup, even that Ma Deuce might be tuned for precision fire. :D

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Re: Whats the main variable in being a Sniper?

Postby Gawdzilla Sama » Thu Jun 30, 2016 4:50 pm

I mounted a scope on one of my guns.
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Re: Whats the main variable in being a Sniper?

Postby ElectricMonk » Thu Jun 30, 2016 7:18 pm

As Blacksamwell posted, sniper skill and electronic gadgets can't help past a certain point: even the best barrel and highest velocity lose accuracy proportional to the distance to target (ideally) even in the best of cases.
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Re: Whats the main variable in being a Sniper?

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Thu Jun 30, 2016 9:17 pm

EM--yep, but establishing that certain point is the question of this thread...or close enough: Whats the main variable? Equipment, training, weather? "The Man" appears to be a strong variable for a long history of kill shots. While still not defining all the variables, seems to me it might be something like the time spent learning how everything works in the field? Kinda a fudge that includes all the variable?

Maybe go at it in the reverse? That way...seems to me having as uniform a set of bullets you can get would be the most important "controllable" variable?
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Re: Whats the main variable in being a Sniper?

Postby Blacksamwell » Thu Jun 30, 2016 9:26 pm

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:EM--yep, but establishing that certain point is the question of this thread...or close enough: Whats the main variable? Equipment, training, weather? "The Man" appears to be a strong variable for a long history of kill shots. While still not defining all the variables, seems to me it might be something like the time spent learning how everything works in the field? Kinda a fudge that includes all the variable?

Maybe go at it in the reverse? That way...seems to me having as uniform a set of bullets you can get would be the most important "controllable" variable?

Main variable? I would say it's having a rifle and ammunition combo that's capable of reasonable precision. An expert sniper will have trouble hitting anything if you hand them a poor rifle that's out of adjustment and won't consistently place shots. On the flip side of that argument, a novice is unlikely to do well with a precision rifle.

That's what I find so fun about the rifle shooting I've done. There's always another variable to adjust in my efforts to gain additional precision. I'm always faced with a new challenge.

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Re: Whats the main variable in being a Sniper?

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Thu Jun 30, 2016 9:29 pm

I agree. Fun the issue is somewhat bifurcated to accuracy in general.......and then to the most accurate among experts?
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Re: Whats the main variable in being a Sniper?

Postby Gawdzilla Sama » Thu Jun 30, 2016 9:34 pm

ElectricMonk wrote:As Blacksamwell posted, sniper skill and electronic gadgets can't help past a certain point: even the best barrel and highest velocity lose accuracy proportional to the distance to target (ideally) even in the best of cases.
That's when you bolt on a magic module.
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Re: Whats the main variable in being a Sniper?

Postby Blacksamwell » Thu Jun 30, 2016 9:39 pm

Gawdzilla Sama wrote:
ElectricMonk wrote:As Blacksamwell posted, sniper skill and electronic gadgets can't help past a certain point: even the best barrel and highest velocity lose accuracy proportional to the distance to target (ideally) even in the best of cases.
That's when you bolt on a magic module.

The military is working on it... http://www.cnn.com/2015/04/29/us/us-military-self-guided-bullet/

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Re: Whats the main variable in being a Sniper?

Postby Gawdzilla Sama » Thu Jun 30, 2016 10:06 pm

Anything that hits the press is just the first layer of the onion.
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Re: Whats the main variable in being a Sniper?

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Thu Jun 30, 2016 10:10 pm

Sam--with your real world expertise, have you tried/enjoy xbox game shoot them ups? Not just killing zombies...but maybe duck hunting or accuracy games? Does Virtual Reality on gun activities hold any interest for you?
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Re: Whats the main variable in being a Sniper?

Postby ElectricMonk » Fri Jul 01, 2016 3:24 am

I'd say the main variable is being able to practice in realistic conditions, ideally on site. Time to range-find certain points to be able to precisely adjust the weapon. A good spotter.
I've come up with a set of rules that describe our reactions to technologies:
Spoiler:
1. Anything that is in the world when you’re born is normal and ordinary and is just a natural part of the way the world works.
2. Anything that's invented between when you’re fifteen and thirty-five is new and exciting and revolutionary and you can probably get a career in it.
3. Anything invented after you're thirty-five is against the natural order of things.
- Douglas Adams

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Re: Whats the main variable in being a Sniper?

Postby Blacksamwell » Fri Jul 01, 2016 4:18 pm

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:Sam--with your real world expertise, have you tried/enjoy xbox game shoot them ups? Not just killing zombies...but maybe duck hunting or accuracy games? Does Virtual Reality on gun activities hold any interest for you?

Yes, but I'm not sure that has anything to do with my shooting hobbies. I just like video games.

I haven't yet played a first person shooter that effectively mimicked the physics of shooting well enough for me to make any kind of real connection. Kind of like how motorcycle video games never come close, even those rigs at the arcade that have physical "bikes" you lean over to turn. All the physics are wrong. Long range shots don't fall and the shot reaches the target instantly so there's no need to lead the target. And if you don't have a "gun" controller you're merely moving a cross-hair around the screen with the controller, not aiming something that feels like a firearm.

I do however like the challenge and excitement of the multi-player first person shooters. I just like the fact that there are humans on the other end reacting to me and I'm reacting to them. Once I think I've found a patter I can exploit, they change. Keeps me on my toes. And getting creamed by 12 year-olds keeps me humble.

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Re: Whats the main variable in being a Sniper?

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Fri Jul 01, 2016 6:29 pm

Sam--flight simulators for pilots are so real as to be indistinguishable. I've seen shooter courses to train Swat Teams are still rudimentary but provide help hard to duplicate otherwise. I suppose a more accurate virtual long range sniper course could be created...or just use the live situation given the numbers involved?
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