Dylann Roof and gun control

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Dylann Roof and gun control

Postby xouper » Fri Jun 19, 2015 2:51 pm

In the wake of the insanely tragic South Carolina church shooting, President Obama has called for more gun control.

Some backstory (for those who haven't yet seen it):
http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-obama-charleston-shooting-20150618-story.html


I have only one question for the President: Short of trashing the civil liberties of responsible law-abiding Americans, what law do you propose would have prevented Dylann Roof from having the gun he used?

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Re: Dylann Roof and gun control

Postby gorgeous » Fri Jun 19, 2015 3:58 pm

Roof may have been a mind controlled shooter obeying orders....they can brainwash a person to have certain hatred for groups of people...many of the mass shooters in recent years have shown symptoms of being mind controlled...
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Re: Dylann Roof and gun control

Postby Poodle » Fri Jun 19, 2015 4:10 pm

:roll:

Or, much more likely, Dylann Roof is simply a psychopath. Occam's Razor and all that.

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Re: Dylann Roof and gun control

Postby Frank Hoffman » Fri Jun 19, 2015 4:28 pm

gorgeous wrote:Roof may have been a mind controlled shooter obeying orders

Poodle wrote:Or, much more likely, Dylann Roof is simply a psychopath. Occam's Razor and all that.

Those comments seem dismissive of the subtle influence of pervasive racism; sort of a death by a thousand cuts. If someone is gently, deftly moved not by one group or individual, but by many influences; closer and closer to such a deed, then I don't think it can be described as a psychotic break or brainwashing; it is simply a rather normal human responding to his environment. We must change the environment, starting with the Confederate flag coming down off the pole on the state capital grounds.

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Re: Dylann Roof and gun control

Postby gorgeous » Fri Jun 19, 2015 4:35 pm

the CIA has created brainwashed assassins and made them hate communists and want to kill them...it happens...
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Re: Dylann Roof and gun control

Postby Lausten » Fri Jun 19, 2015 6:05 pm

xouper wrote:In the wake of the insanely tragic South Carolina church shooting, President Obama has called for more gun control.

Some backstory (for those who haven't yet seen it):
http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-obama-charleston-shooting-20150618-story.html


I have only one question for the President: Short of trashing the civil liberties of responsible law-abiding Americans, what law do you propose would have prevented Dylann Roof from having the gun he used?

Wrong question. The question is, what would have prevented a mentally ill person from having a gun?

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Re: Dylann Roof and gun control

Postby xouper » Fri Jun 19, 2015 7:03 pm

Lausten wrote:
xouper wrote:Short of trashing the civil liberties of responsible law-abiding Americans, what law do you propose would have prevented Dylann Roof from having the gun he used?

Wrong question.

I disagree. I asked precisely the right question. Obama and others think there should have been laws in place to prevent this tragedy. OK, then tell me what laws would have prevented Roof from committing that crime. That is precisely the correct question to be asking here.

Lausten wrote:The question is, what would have prevented a mentally ill person from having a gun?

While that's a valid question, it is a separate issue from what I asked in the opening post. If you want, I can start another thread to address that question. Secondly, how do you know that additional laws preventing mentally ill from having a gun would also have prevented Roof from having a gun?


Aside from being a biased piece of propaganda, that's off topic for this thread. Why don't you post it in one of the other gun threads where it belongs?

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Re: Dylann Roof and gun control

Postby Lausten » Fri Jun 19, 2015 7:26 pm

xouper wrote:
Lausten wrote:The question is, what would have prevented a mentally ill person from having a gun?

While that's a valid question, it is a separate issue from what I asked in the opening post. If you want, I can start another thread to address that question. Secondly, how do you know that additional laws preventing mentally ill from having a gun would also have prevented Roof from having a gun?

Of course it's a separate issue, because you want to frame the issue in a way that makes you right, when you're wrong.

Secondly, if there are laws preventing mentally ill and potentially dangerous people from having guns, then Roof would not have had a gun. Doesn't get much simpler.
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Re: Dylann Roof and gun control

Postby psychiatry is a scam » Fri Jun 19, 2015 8:12 pm

xouper wrote:In the wake of the insanely tragic South Carolina church shooting, President Obama has called for more gun control.

Some backstory (for those who haven't yet seen it):
http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-obama-charleston-shooting-20150618-story.html


I have only one question for the President: Short of trashing the civil liberties of responsible law-abiding Americans, what law do you propose would have prevented Dylann Roof from having the gun he used?


no hand guns , and only bolt action rifles
for the real minority ; there will be no justice , there will be no peace .
makes sense 2me , so it has 2be wrong .

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Re: Dylann Roof and gun control

Postby psychiatry is a scam » Fri Jun 19, 2015 8:16 pm

xouper wrote:
Lausten wrote:
xouper wrote:Short of trashing the civil liberties of responsible law-abiding Americans, what law do you propose would have prevented Dylann Roof from having the gun he used?

Wrong question.

I disagree. I asked precisely the right question. Obama and others think there should have been laws in place to prevent this tragedy. OK, then tell me what laws would have prevented Roof from committing that crime. That is precisely the correct question to be asking here.

Lausten wrote:The question is, what would have prevented a mentally ill person from having a gun?

While that's a valid question, it is a separate issue from what I asked in the opening post. If you want, I can start another thread to address that question. Secondly, how do you know that additional laws preventing mentally ill from having a gun would also have prevented Roof from having a gun?


Aside from being a biased piece of propaganda, that's off topic for this thread. Why don't you post it in one of the other gun threads where it belongs?


could give shrinks total power . let them lock people up and force meds without a lawyer or court hearing . better to force meds on a million innocent people then to let one psychopath roam around .
for the real minority ; there will be no justice , there will be no peace .
makes sense 2me , so it has 2be wrong .

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Re: Dylann Roof and gun control

Postby xouper » Fri Jun 19, 2015 8:43 pm

psychiatry is a scam wrote:
xouper wrote:... I have only one question for the President: Short of trashing the civil liberties of responsible law-abiding Americans, what law do you propose would have prevented Dylann Roof from having the gun he used?

no hand guns , and only bolt action rifles

That satisfies the second part of my question, but not the first part. The US Supreme Court has already ruled, twice, that a handgun ban is unconstitutional.

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Re: Dylann Roof and gun control

Postby xouper » Fri Jun 19, 2015 8:52 pm

Lausten wrote:
xouper wrote:
Lausten wrote:The question is, what would have prevented a mentally ill person from having a gun?

While that's a valid question, it is a separate issue from what I asked in the opening post. If you want, I can start another thread to address that question. Secondly, how do you know that additional laws preventing mentally ill from having a gun would also have prevented Roof from having a gun?

Of course it's a separate issue, because you want to frame the issue in a way that makes you right, when you're wrong.

How am I wrong? Obama complains that we should have had laws on the books that would have prevented Roof from having a gun. Therefore, it is legitimate and correct to ask what laws does he have in mind that would have done that? That is not the wrong question to ask in this context.

Lausten wrote:Secondly, if there are laws preventing mentally ill and potentially dangerous people from having guns, then Roof would not have had a gun. Doesn't get much simpler.

How do you know such laws would have prevented Roof from having a gun? Explain how he got his gun and then explain how that would have been prevented by your proposed laws.

Also, how do you propose to have a law preventing "potentially dangerous people" from owning guns, without infringing the civil liberties of responsible law-abiding citizens? Maybe there's a way. Show me how it can be done and maybe I'll get on board.

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Re: Dylann Roof and gun control

Postby Poodle » Fri Jun 19, 2015 9:09 pm

Frank Hoffman wrote:
gorgeous wrote:Roof may have been a mind controlled shooter obeying orders

Poodle wrote:Or, much more likely, Dylann Roof is simply a psychopath. Occam's Razor and all that.

Those comments seem dismissive of the subtle influence of pervasive racism; sort of a death by a thousand cuts. If someone is gently, deftly moved not by one group or individual, but by many influences; closer and closer to such a deed, then I don't think it can be described as a psychotic break or brainwashing; it is simply a rather normal human responding to his environment. We must change the environment, starting with the Confederate flag coming down off the pole on the state capital grounds.


I do not believe you can gently, deftly move anyone to such a deed under normal circumstances. It was an inhuman act, but psychopaths are broken.

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Re: Dylann Roof and gun control

Postby Frank Hoffman » Sat Jun 20, 2015 12:13 am

Poodle wrote:I do not believe you can gently, deftly move anyone to such a deed under normal circumstances. It was an inhuman act, but psychopaths are broken.

I respectfully disagree. The number of Islamic suicide bombers, members of the Stasi in East Germany, Khmer Rouge, and Catholic Inquisition tell me that so many people are infinitely malleable toward hate and destruction that to call it an inhuman act minimizes what normal humans are capable of.

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Re: Dylann Roof and gun control

Postby Frank Hoffman » Sat Jun 20, 2015 12:18 am

Lausten wrote:If there are laws preventing mentally ill and potentially dangerous people from having guns, then Roof would not have had a gun. Doesn't get much simpler.

If the Sandy Hook Elementary School shooting didn't change anything, this incident certainly will not.

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Re: Dylann Roof and gun control

Postby psychiatry is a scam » Sat Jun 20, 2015 1:05 am

Frank Hoffman wrote:
gorgeous wrote:Roof may have been a mind controlled shooter obeying orders

Poodle wrote:Or, much more likely, Dylann Roof is simply a psychopath. Occam's Razor and all that.

Those comments seem dismissive of the subtle influence of pervasive racism; sort of a death by a thousand cuts. If someone is gently, deftly moved not by one group or individual, but by many influences; closer and closer to such a deed, then I don't think it can be described as a psychotic break or brainwashing; it is simply a rather normal human responding to his environment. We must change the environment, starting with the Confederate flag coming down off the pole on the state capital grounds.


I agree , the other people / kids around him were probably thinking and saying things the same way.
think I mentioned it in another thread about how kids like to trick a naïve member of their group into say shoplifting .
in time the environment will change , like the Neanderthals they mixed with ; stupid white losers are headed for extinction.
for the real minority ; there will be no justice , there will be no peace .
makes sense 2me , so it has 2be wrong .

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Re: Dylann Roof and gun control

Postby TJrandom » Sat Jun 20, 2015 3:18 am

xouper wrote:
psychiatry is a scam wrote:
xouper wrote:... I have only one question for the President: Short of trashing the civil liberties of responsible law-abiding Americans, what law do you propose would have prevented Dylann Roof from having the gun he used?

no hand guns , and only bolt action rifles

That satisfies the second part of my question, but not the first part. The US Supreme Court has already ruled, twice, that a handgun ban is unconstitutional.


Maybe there is no such law that can be implemented that meets your criteria. Maybe it is time to address the root cause of deaths by guns…. Those unconstitutional rulings were based upon there being a second amendment articulated right.

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Re: Dylann Roof and gun control

Postby xouper » Sat Jun 20, 2015 4:45 am

TJrandom wrote:
xouper wrote:
psychiatry is a scam wrote:
xouper wrote:... I have only one question for the President: Short of trashing the civil liberties of responsible law-abiding Americans, what law do you propose would have prevented Dylann Roof from having the gun he used?

no hand guns , and only bolt action rifles

That satisfies the second part of my question, but not the first part. The US Supreme Court has already ruled, twice, that a handgun ban is unconstitutional.

Maybe there is no such law that can be implemented that meets your criteria.

Perhaps not, but I am willing to allow for the possibility. Just because I am unable to think of a solution does not mean there is none.

TJrandom wrote:Maybe it is time to address the root cause of deaths by guns…. Those unconstitutional rulings were based upon there being a second amendment articulated right.

We have had this conversation before and I have yet to see a compelling argument for your position.

My right to keep and bear arms was not the cause of those deaths in South Carolina. You can protest all you want, but there is no way you can establish the Second Amendment as the cause of any particular homicide. Those deaths were caused by the willful act of someone who used a gun in violation of the law.

If your argument is that the availability of guns causes homicides, then you must also argue that the availability of cars causes deaths from drunk drivers and that the availability of swimming pools causes the deaths of innocent children.

But then you will say cars and swimming pools have a legitimate and lawful purpose besides killing people. And then I will say the same thing about guns.

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Re: Dylann Roof and gun control

Postby Gord » Sat Jun 20, 2015 4:50 am

Oh, he's a person! I thought Dylan Roof was a roofing business.

Then I saw this: http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/20 ... psrc=nymag

And here's Dylan Roofing: https://411.ca/business/profile/12430261

So I was half right.
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Re: Dylann Roof and gun control

Postby TJrandom » Sat Jun 20, 2015 9:44 pm

xouper wrote:
TJrandom wrote:
xouper wrote:
psychiatry is a scam wrote:
xouper wrote:... I have only one question for the President: Short of trashing the civil liberties of responsible law-abiding Americans, what law do you propose would have prevented Dylann Roof from having the gun he used?

no hand guns , and only bolt action rifles

That satisfies the second part of my question, but not the first part. The US Supreme Court has already ruled, twice, that a handgun ban is unconstitutional.

Maybe there is no such law that can be implemented that meets your criteria.

Perhaps not, but I am willing to allow for the possibility. Just because I am unable to think of a solution does not mean there is none.

TJrandom wrote:Maybe it is time to address the root cause of deaths by guns…. Those unconstitutional rulings were based upon there being a second amendment articulated right.

We have had this conversation before and I have yet to see a compelling argument for your position.

My right to keep and bear arms was not the cause of those deaths in South Carolina. You can protest all you want, but there is no way you can establish the Second Amendment as the cause of any particular homicide. Those deaths were caused by the willful act of someone who used a gun in violation of the law.

If your argument is that the availability of guns causes homicides, then you must also argue that the availability of cars causes deaths from drunk drivers and that the availability of swimming pools causes the deaths of innocent children.

But then you will say cars and swimming pools have a legitimate and lawful purpose besides killing people. And then I will say the same thing about guns.


It is unlikely that we would have that exchange – since I have previously pointed out that those are ludicrous analogies and I am trying to stay away from engaging in such foolishness more than once.

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Re: Dylann Roof and gun control

Postby xouper » Sat Jun 20, 2015 10:23 pm

TJrandom wrote:It is unlikely that we would have that exchange – since I have previously pointed out that those are ludicrous analogies and I am trying to stay away from engaging in such foolishness more than once.

You have not yet provided a compelling refutation of those analogies, but we can set that dispute aside for the moment while you address the other part of my reply:

xouper wrote:
TJrandom wrote:Maybe it is time to address the root cause of deaths by guns…. Those unconstitutional rulings were based upon there being a second amendment articulated right.

My right to keep and bear arms was not the cause of those deaths in South Carolina. You can protest all you want, but there is no way you can establish the Second Amendment as the cause of any particular homicide. Those deaths were caused by the willful act of someone who used a gun in violation of the law.

Please explain how the Second Amendment articulated right caused Dylann Roof to shoot those people.

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Re: Dylann Roof and gun control

Postby JO 753 » Sun Jun 21, 2015 9:22 am

Lausten wrote:Wrong question. The question is, what would have prevented a mentally ill person from having a gun?


Cut their fingerz off. All 10. If youre crazy, you only get to hav pawz.

A simple, elegant solution that duznt impinj upon the god given rites uv GOD fearin Americanz like xouper.

Am I a jenius or wut? Now all we need to do iz impliment an obligitory monthly mental helth screening program for everybody.

All hospitalz and clinics will be set up and staffed for the program. Specially outfitted busez will tour the states providing the service to transportation deprived rezidents. They will hav psychologists trained in this new specialty (think uv the boost to the employment numberz!) and packed with all sorts uv analysis equipment and, uv course, the amputation equipment and specialists. (I shoud start on a fingerectomy prototype immediately!)

You see, Lausten, its not really possible to prevent anybody from getting a gun wen we are nearly at the point where we are kicking them like discarded Coke canz in the streets, so making them unuzable to crazyz iz the only practical solution.

PS. Great link. Thanks!
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Re: Dylann Roof and gun control

Postby TJrandom » Sun Jun 21, 2015 10:00 am

xouper wrote: ... Please explain how the Second Amendment articulated right caused Dylann Roof to shoot those people.


Allowed, facilitated, supported, permitted - didn`t cause. The `cause` was a gun, the availability of a gun.

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Re: Dylann Roof and gun control

Postby Pyrrho » Sun Jun 21, 2015 11:44 am

I think the "cause" was a little more complicated. Combination of ignorance, alcohol and drug abuse, and racism, with the added effect of human affinity for violence. Having a gun only made it easy for him. I suspect that if he couldn't have bought one legally he'd have bought one illegally or stolen one.

As seems typical for these murders, there were warning signs that were ignored. He openly talked about shooting up a school and nobody took him seriously.

In the modern day armed security seems to be a necessity.
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Re: Dylann Roof and gun control

Postby Lausten » Sun Jun 21, 2015 4:15 pm

Frank Hoffman wrote:
Lausten wrote:If there are laws preventing mentally ill and potentially dangerous people from having guns, then Roof would not have had a gun. Doesn't get much simpler.

If the Sandy Hook Elementary School shooting didn't change anything, this incident certainly will not.

Right, because nothing ever changes. Sometimes I wonder if remembering things older than 10 years is some sort of super power that very few have.
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Re: Dylann Roof and gun control

Postby Lausten » Sun Jun 21, 2015 4:19 pm

xouper; you quoted yourself out of context (leaving off the thrashing civil liberties part), now you're asking me to summarize everything about this story that is in the news. How about you tell me why other countries that have the laws we are talking about have lower rates of shootings like this, but for some reason you don't think those laws would make a difference here.
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Re: Dylann Roof and gun control

Postby Lausten » Sun Jun 21, 2015 4:21 pm

psychiatry is a scam wrote:could give shrinks total power . let them lock people up and force meds without a lawyer or court hearing . better to force meds on a million innocent people then to let one psychopath roam around .

Great, another person trying to frame this tragedy so it becomes an argument for their pet issue. Sick.
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Re: Dylann Roof and gun control

Postby gorgeous » Sun Jun 21, 2015 4:55 pm

From the Appendix of MC Realities: Understanding, Detecting, and Defeating Political Control Technologies---------------1959-1961 --------- First Mass Shootings start taking place now as first-fruits of CIA mind control research, along with Manchurian Candidate programing
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Re: Dylann Roof and gun control

Postby Nessie » Sun Jun 21, 2015 7:30 pm

Closing the private sale loophole that meant his father could give him a gun without there being any legal recourse may have stopped his father from giving him the gun.
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Re: Dylann Roof and gun control

Postby TJrandom » Sun Jun 21, 2015 9:47 pm

Pyrrho wrote:I think the "cause" was a little more complicated. Combination of ignorance, alcohol and drug abuse, and racism, with the added effect of human affinity for violence. Having a gun only made it easy for him. I suspect that if he couldn't have bought one legally he'd have bought one illegally or stolen one.

As seems typical for these murders, there were warning signs that were ignored. He openly talked about shooting up a school and nobody took him seriously.

In the modern day armed security seems to be a necessity.


I don`t see the pattern of mass/multiple killings by radicalized/deranged individuals as being inevitable. True enough, had Roof been prevented from purchasing his own weapon he may indeed have stolen one – but that is only possible in a society where guns are so readily available.

That armed guards might be necessary is both self-fulfilling and shameful for an advanced society. Just imagine needing armed guards for a prayer meeting, a nature walk, a family gathering in a park, a little league ball game, a wedding, a classroom.

Yet following each of these tragedies, a segment of the population gets in a huff at the suggestion that laws might need to be changed – the same segment that sees any mitigating law as the beginning of the slippery slope to an outright ban, and the same segment that (at least in this case) helped to foment the hatred that fueled this senseless act. Shakespeare would have a field day…

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Re: Dylann Roof and gun control

Postby TJrandom » Sun Jun 21, 2015 9:54 pm

Nessie wrote:Closing the private sale loophole that meant his father could give him a gun without there being any legal recourse may have stopped his father from giving him the gun.


It seems that there is some doubt that he was given the gun by his father, but even if so – it would have been a criminal act since he has drug related felony charges pending against him. If he purchased it from a gun shop/dealer, then a background check should have prevented a sale.

How did Dylann Roof get a gun?

http://www.wyff4.com/news/how-did-dylan ... n/33680204

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Re: Dylann Roof and gun control

Postby TJrandom » Sun Jun 21, 2015 10:04 pm

Karl Rove – Only Way To Stop The Violence Is To Repeal The Second Amendment


Translation… since that won’t be done, there is no need to change any laws.

http://dailycaller.com/2015/06/21/karl- ... amendment/

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Re: Dylann Roof and gun control

Postby Scott Mayers » Sun Jun 21, 2015 10:23 pm

xouper wrote:
Lausten wrote:The question is, what would have prevented a mentally ill person from having a gun?

While that's a valid question, it is a separate issue from what I asked in the opening post. If you want, I can start another thread to address that question. Secondly, how do you know that additional laws preventing mentally ill from having a gun would also have prevented Roof from having a gun?


I think that you presume that everyone has equal capacity to obtain illegal weapons. Not everyone is 'connected' in the same way. For many mentally ill people, they are usually isolated and lack even "friends" who could get them a gun for the asking. Therefore, laws can aid in reducing the likelihood for many mentally ill from obtaining legal weapons as well as illegal ones.
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Re: Dylann Roof and gun control

Postby JO 753 » Sun Jun 21, 2015 10:26 pm

Pyrrho wrote:In the modern day armed security seems to be a necessity.


Aside from the funny/trajik picture uv a 6'6" 350 pound armed and armored gard standing beside a bible study group az standard proseedure, the absurdity iz that he woud likely hav been victim #1 in this case.

But I suppoze if youre going to hav a security forse for every public gathering, it woud include a pat down and metal detector scan.
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Re: Dylann Roof and gun control

Postby JO 753 » Sun Jun 21, 2015 10:36 pm

TJrandom wrote: How did Dylann Roof get a gun?


and the punch line iz....

Prize in a box uv Trix
Hiz tooth fairy payment wen he wuz 7
Grabbed it out uv the purse uv wun uv the victimz
By openning an account with 100$ at the local bank.
Wun it in an online raffle sponsored by the NRA
Theze arent funny anymore, the last 3 are actual wayz peepl hav gotten gunz. Probably even the 2nd wun.
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Re: Dylann Roof and gun control

Postby Bart Stewart » Mon Jun 22, 2015 4:34 am

Pyrrho wrote:I think the "cause" was a little more complicated. Combination of ignorance, alcohol and drug abuse, and racism, with the added effect of human affinity for violence. Having a gun only made it easy for him. I suspect that if he couldn't have bought one legally he'd have bought one illegally or stolen one.

As seems typical for these murders, there were warning signs that were ignored. He openly talked about shooting up a school and nobody took him seriously.

In the modern day armed security seems to be a necessity.

There was armed security at Columbine, Virginia Tech, Navy Yard, and Fort Hood, among other gun rampage sites.

In any other developed country this kind of thing happens a tiny fraction as much as we have it here. It's the guns. That's the only difference. American lunatics are the best-armed lunatics on earth. Hands down, bar none.

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Re: Dylann Roof and gun control

Postby Matthew Ellard » Mon Jun 22, 2015 6:00 am

gorgeous wrote:From the Appendix of MC Realities: Understanding, Detecting, and Defeating Political Control Technologies---------------1959-1961 --------- First Mass Shootings start taking place now as first-fruits of CIA mind control research, along with Manchurian Candidate programing


You absolute moron. Roof the shooter wore an apartheid badge and was simply racially prejudiced, in the same way your copy stuff from the anti-Semitic Rense web site. You both are simply really stupid.
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Re: Dylann Roof and gun control

Postby Flash » Mon Jun 22, 2015 6:29 am

Look Matthew, even Fluffy has a thank you button.
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Re: Dylann Roof and gun control

Postby Matthew Ellard » Mon Jun 22, 2015 7:06 am

Flash wrote:Look Matthew, even Fluffy has a thank you button.


Well.....excuse me........ Fluffy invented the "thank you button".

Australia is a "merit" based country. If you work hard and get good results, we don't care what species you are.

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Re: Dylann Roof and gun control

Postby Flash » Mon Jun 22, 2015 7:25 am

I just wonder if Sam Peckinpah's, Tarantino's movies, even the classic Magnificent Seven (although a remake of the Kurosawa's movie and therefore originally a Japanese violence), countless Dirty Harry movies and such flick as Seven Psychopaths are the reflection of or the pattern for the American society to follow. In other words, is the art imitating life or life following the art.

I have never really wondered why Hollywood is able to make the best of the most violent movies on the planet attributing it to the exuberance of talent. Now, after a reflection, I think it has something to do with the national psyche. Art after all must reflect life. And life, the reality in America isn't going to change because life has certain gravitas, immovability which is compounded by the fact that the majority of Americans don't give a {!#%@} about anything other than their collective fears of the mind grabbing specters like communism, UN, immigrants, blacks, Jews ingrained in them through the years of most idiotic propaganda on Earth.

Therefore, in such a situation the runaway availability of guns, some stupid slavery flag, dysfunctional cities and governments are really the minor irritants not worth bothering with.

The presidents will make their sorrowful speeches, the Congress will do nothing (look how quiet they are now), the pious preachers will explain how happy the murdered are in heaven and the cycle will repeat. There will be another massacre... soon, guaranteed.
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