Americans Prefer Living in Neighborhoods With Guns

Duck and cover

Choose one of the following:

Poll ended at Thu Jul 16, 2015 4:02 pm

I would feel safer moving to a neighborhood where nobody was allowed to own a gun.
8
67%
I would feel safer moving to a neighborhood where I could have a gun for my own protection.
2
17%
I'm not sure.
2
17%
 
Total votes: 12

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Re: Americans Prefer Living in Neighborhoods With Guns

Postby JO 753 » Fri Jun 19, 2015 4:57 am

TJrandom wrote:Another thought... They didn`t provide the text of the introduction, and that too could dramatically alter the responses. For example: Hello. There have been a few violent crimes recently. May I have a few minutes of your time to ask your opinion on use of a gun for self protection? Of course I am not saying that they did this, but am curious as to how they introduced the questions.


Since it iz just a part uv the GoP propaganda machine the intro woud be sumthing like 'the liberal gun grabberz are uzing the resent trajedyz to rally support for grabbing your gunz'.
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Re: Americans Prefer Living in Neighborhoods With Guns

Postby JO 753 » Fri Jun 19, 2015 5:17 am

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Re: Americans Prefer Living in Neighborhoods With Guns

Postby xouper » Fri Jun 19, 2015 11:27 am

JO 753 wrote:
TJrandom wrote:Another thought... They didn`t provide the text of the introduction, and that too could dramatically alter the responses. For example: Hello. There have been a few violent crimes recently. May I have a few minutes of your time to ask your opinion on use of a gun for self protection? Of course I am not saying that they did this, but am curious as to how they introduced the questions.

Since it iz just a part uv the GoP propaganda machine the intro woud be sumthing like 'the liberal gun grabberz are uzing the resent trajedyz to rally support for grabbing your gunz'.

Those are valid kinds of questions to ask of any poll. Speculation, however, is not a valid substitute for actual answers.

I applaud your skepticism here, but I will also note that I have never seen either of you express any skepticism of any poll or study that agrees with your position on guns. In fact just the opposite, you actively fight against any such skepticism.

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Re: Americans Prefer Living in Neighborhoods With Guns

Postby xouper » Fri Jun 19, 2015 11:37 am


Those were both interesting reads. Thank you for posting them.

From the numbers for homicides, it becomes obvious there is no correlation between proliferation of guns and homicides. And although they show a correlation between race and homicides in the US, I would be dumbfounded if anyone here thinks that implies a causal relation.

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Re: Americans Prefer Living in Neighborhoods With Guns

Postby xouper » Fri Jun 19, 2015 11:41 am

TJrandom wrote:For clarity - people who think thru an issue before responding will likely give different responses than they might when pressed for time.

More clarification please.

Regarding my OP poll, are you saying that taking the time to think about their answer is the explanation for why more people chose option #1?

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Re: Americans Prefer Living in Neighborhoods With Guns

Postby JO 753 » Fri Jun 19, 2015 12:07 pm

xouper wrote:From the numbers for homicides, it becomes obvious there is no correlation between proliferation of guns and homicides.


I'm not seeing it. Wuts obvious?

And although they show a correlation between race and homicides in the US, I would be dumbfounded if anyone here thinks that implies a causal relation.


Then be dumbfounded. The implication iz there.
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Re: Americans Prefer Living in Neighborhoods With Guns

Postby JO 753 » Fri Jun 19, 2015 12:11 pm

xouper wrote:I applaud your skepticism here, but I will also note that I have never seen either of you express any skepticism of any poll or study that agrees with your position on guns. In fact just the opposite, you actively fight against any such skepticism.


I am skeptical wen I see contradictionz, either external or internal. especially internal.
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Re: Americans Prefer Living in Neighborhoods With Guns

Postby xouper » Fri Jun 19, 2015 12:26 pm

JO 753 wrote:
xouper wrote:
And although they show a correlation between race and homicides in the US, I would be dumbfounded if anyone here thinks that implies a causal relation.

Then be dumbfounded. The implication iz there.

Seriously?

Are you saying that being black is what causes the higher homicide rate for blacks?

Are you saying that being white is what causes the lower homicide rate for whites?

:shock: :shock:

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Re: Americans Prefer Living in Neighborhoods With Guns

Postby xouper » Fri Jun 19, 2015 12:30 pm

JO 753 wrote:
xouper wrote:I applaud your skepticism here, but I will also note that I have never seen either of you express any skepticism of any poll or study that agrees with your position on guns. In fact just the opposite, you actively fight against any such skepticism.

I am skeptical wen I see contradictionz, either external or internal. especially internal.

What contradictions do you see in the Rasmussen poll I cited in the opening post? The criticisms you posted only show a bias in favor of Republicans, nothing more. By definition, a bias is not a contradiction.

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Re: Americans Prefer Living in Neighborhoods With Guns

Postby xouper » Fri Jun 19, 2015 2:14 pm

JO 753 wrote:
xouper wrote:From the numbers for homicides, it becomes obvious there is no correlation between proliferation of guns and homicides.

I'm not seeing it. Wuts obvious?

The link you posted cites the following United Nations document (red added by me):
https://www.unodc.org/documents/gsh/pdfs/2014_GLOBAL_HOMICIDE_BOOK_web.pdf

On page 68, the UNODC wrote:The role that firearm availability, accessibility or ownership may play in affecting levels of firearm homicide is a heavily debated research and policy issue. Hypotheses about the impact of the prevalence of firearm ownership and, more generally, of gun availability on homicide tend to fall into two categories. One suggests that easy access to firearms may facilitate the commission of homicide in a variety of ways, including by fostering violent confrontations and by increasing their lethality, as well as, on a different note, by facilitating the commission of crimes and the execution of targeted killings. The second hypothesis suggests, on the other hand, that widespread availability of firearms may be a deterrent to assault and aggressions, in that it may reduce the leverage and motivation of an armed perpetrator. A number of methodological challenges, starting with the shortage of data on firearm availability, make it difficult to provide definitive answers in either direction.


Furthermore, in that article you cited, there is a graph comparing homicide rate and the Human Development Index.

https://espnfivethirtyeight.files.wordpress.com/2015/06/silver-datalab-unhomicide-1.png

The general distribution of the dots shows no clear correlation between the two variables.

Perhaps this is only obvious to those who are familiar with how scatter plots look for various kinds of correlations. Here is a tutorial for those who are interested:

http://study.com/academy/lesson/scatter-plot-and-correlation-definition-example-analysis.html

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Re: Americans Prefer Living in Neighborhoods With Guns

Postby JO 753 » Fri Jun 19, 2015 3:02 pm

xouper wrote:Are you saying that being black is what causes the higher homicide rate for blacks?


No. I'm saying that there are other differensez besidez the dark skin that make blacks more prone than wites to uze gunz for their intended purpose.

Are you saying that being white is what causes the lower homicide rate for whites?


No. I'm saying there are other differensez besidez the liter skin that make wites less prone than blacks to uze gunz for their intended purpose.

Wun uv the most revealing insites I'v had from all the debates on this subject iz that most humanz are not sikolojikly equipt to handl gunz responsibly. That this karakteristic iz not presisely the same in all rasez iz to be expected.
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Re: Americans Prefer Living in Neighborhoods With Guns

Postby JO 753 » Fri Jun 19, 2015 3:08 pm

xouper wrote:What contradictions do you see in the Rasmussen poll I cited in the opening post?


It contradicts your poll here. It duznt jibe with a variety uv surveyz I'v seen that most Americanz favor stricter gun control lawz.
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Re: Americans Prefer Living in Neighborhoods With Guns

Postby xouper » Fri Jun 19, 2015 3:20 pm

JO 753 wrote:
xouper wrote:What contradictions do you see in the Rasmussen poll I cited in the opening post?

It contradicts your poll here.

My forum poll here makes no pretense at being scientific, and thus it is not valid to use it as a baseline for judging the legitimacy of other polls.

JO 753 wrote:It duznt jibe with a variety uv surveyz I'v seen that most Americanz favor stricter gun control lawz.

Except that there is no inherent contradiction between wanting more gun control in general and also wanting the right to have a gun in the home for self defense, which is what the Rasmussen poll asks. You can have some of both at the same time.

Perhaps you have not seen the latest Pew results showing more Americans now say that protecting gun rights is more important than controlling gun ownership, 52% to 46%.

http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2015/04/17/despite-lower-crime-rates-support-for-gun-rights-increases/

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Re: Americans Prefer Living in Neighborhoods With Guns

Postby xouper » Fri Jun 19, 2015 3:33 pm

JO 753 wrote:
xouper wrote:Are you saying that being black is what causes the higher homicide rate for blacks?

No. I'm saying that there are other differensez besidez the dark skin that make blacks more prone than wites to uze gunz for their intended purpose.

Are you saying that being white is what causes the lower homicide rate for whites?

No. I'm saying there are other differensez besidez the liter skin that make wites less prone than blacks to uze gunz for their intended purpose.

Wun uv the most revealing insites I'v had from all the debates on this subject iz that most humanz are not sikolojikly equipt to handl gunz responsibly. That this karakteristic iz not presisely the same in all rasez iz to be expected.

Wow. You say "no", and then immediate use other words that mean the same as "yes". You say blacks more prone (to other influences) than whites to use guns for illegal purposes. You are clearly admitting that being black is a causal factor.

I'm dumbfounded. And astonished, astounded, amazed, staggered, surprised, startled, stunned, confounded, stupefied, dazed, taken aback, stopped in my tracks, open-mouthed, aghast; flabbergasted, floored, bowled over; nonplussed, dumbstruck, speechless, thunderstruck; disconcerted; flummoxed, blown away, . . .

OK, maybe not speechless.

There is also a factual error in your comments. Contrary to your claim, guns are NOT intended to be used illegally to kill people.

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Re: Americans Prefer Living in Neighborhoods With Guns

Postby JO 753 » Fri Jun 19, 2015 3:35 pm

xouper wrote:Except that there is no inherent contradiction

Thats why I rote 'duznt jibe with' rather than contradicts.

Pew stinks.
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Re: Americans Prefer Living in Neighborhoods With Guns

Postby JO 753 » Fri Jun 19, 2015 3:48 pm

xouper wrote:Wow. You say "no", and then immediate use other words that mean the same as "yes".


No. You are under the delusion that skin color sumhow affects other karakteristics; az if applying spray tan will instantly imbue wun with all the traits found in blacks.

There is also a factual error in your comments. Contrary to your claim, guns are NOT intended to be used illegally to kill people.


I didnt rite 'illegally'. If you thot you saw that in my post, maybe you hav sum odd form uv dyslexia that addz wut you want to see.
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Re: Americans Prefer Living in Neighborhoods With Guns

Postby xouper » Fri Jun 19, 2015 4:41 pm

JO 753 wrote:
xouper wrote:Except that there is no inherent contradiction

Thats why I rote 'duznt jibe with' rather than contradicts.

Wait a minute. Are you now moving the goalposts? What does "jibe with" mean to you, if not "disagreement" or "going in the other direction"?

Here's what you said previously:

JO 753 wrote:
xouper wrote:
JO 753 wrote:
xouper wrote:I applaud your skepticism here, but I will also note that I have never seen either of you express any skepticism of any poll or study that agrees with your position on guns.

I am skeptical wen I see contradictionz, either external or internal. especially internal.

What contradictions do you see in the Rasmussen poll I cited in the opening post?

It contradicts your poll here. It duznt jibe with a variety uv surveyz I'v seen that most Americanz favor stricter gun control lawz.

Are you now saying that the Rasmussen poll is not contradicted by other surveys? If so, then on what basis are you claiming skepticism of the Rasmussen poll I cited in the opening post? The mere fact that it doesn't "jibe with" certain other polls? Why then are you not skeptical of those other polls? If two polls don't "jibe", then how do you decide which one to be skeptical of?

JO 753 wrote:Pew stinks.

Your nose is of no significance to me. Got any evidence that Pew is not credible? You do realize that for many years, that particular Pew poll was widely cited by gun control advocates when the poll results favored more gun control. And now suddenly Pew stinks? What changed?

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Re: Americans Prefer Living in Neighborhoods With Guns

Postby xouper » Fri Jun 19, 2015 4:56 pm

JO 753 wrote:
xouper wrote:Wow. You say "no", and then immediate use other words that mean the same as "yes".

No. You are under the delusion that skin color sumhow affects other karakteristics;

Wrong. I have no such delusion. I have never made such a claim or even hinted at such a claim. You put those words in my mouth, not me. You are reading what you want to see, not what I wrote. Furthermore, I am not the one making racist statements here, you are, when you say "blacks are more prone ...".

Seriously, JO, you need to clear the air and explain why your comments are not racist. You can start by explaining what those "other characteristics" are that you claim are causing blacks to commit homicide more than whites.

I'll give you the benefit of the doubt that you didn't accurately express your position, but only if you explain what you really meant to say.

JO 753 wrote:
xouper wrote:There is also a factual error in your comments. Contrary to your claim, guns are NOT intended to be used illegally to kill people.

I didnt rite 'illegally'. If you thot you saw that in my post, maybe you hav sum odd form uv dyslexia that addz wut you want to see.

True, you did not use the word "illegal". It was implied in your comment. You claimed that committing homicide is using a gun for its intended purpose. Sorry, but guns are not intended to be used illegally. Your assertion is blatantly false.

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Re: Americans Prefer Living in Neighborhoods With Guns

Postby JO 753 » Fri Jun 19, 2015 5:11 pm

xouper wrote:Wait a minute. Are you now moving the goalposts? What does "jibe with" mean to you, if not "disagreement" or "going in the other direction"?


Like a Hellz Anjel riding a pink moped, sum thingz just dont go together. So, wen 92% uv Americanz were in favor uv an assault weponz ban after the Sandy Hook massacre, Rassmussen claiming that the majority uv Americanz want to liv in a gun toting nayborhood made me suspicious uv their claim.

Are you now saying that the Rasmussen poll is not contradicted by other surveys?


Maybe it iz, maybe it iznt. It woud be interesting to hav a neutral and a left wing bias polling outfit survey the same idea.

Your nose is of no significance to me. Got any evidence that Pew is not credible? You do realize that for many years, that particular Pew poll was widely cited by gun control advocates when the poll results favored more gun control. And now suddenly Pew stinks? What changed?


Just making a joke. Get it?
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Re: Americans Prefer Living in Neighborhoods With Guns

Postby xouper » Fri Jun 19, 2015 5:26 pm

JO 753 wrote:
xouper wrote:Wait a minute. Are you now moving the goalposts? What does "jibe with" mean to you, if not "disagreement" or "going in the other direction"?

Like a Hellz Anjel riding a pink moped, sum thingz just dont go together. So, wen 92% uv Americanz were in favor uv an assault weponz ban after the Sandy Hook massacre, Rassmussen claiming that the majority uv Americanz want to liv in a gun toting nayborhood made me suspicious uv their claim.

How did you choose which claim to be suspicious of?

In any case, being in favor of an assault weapons ban is not inconsistent with wanting the right to have a gun in your house for self defense. The two polls do not contradict each other. You can have some of both at the same time. So again, what is your justification for being suspicious of the Rasmussen poll?

Where did you get that 92 percent number from anyway?

http://www.nationalmemo.com/poll-majority-oppose-reinstating-assault-weapons-ban/

Poll: Majority Oppose Reinstating Assault Weapons Ban
December 27, 2012

According to a new USA Today/Gallup poll, support for gun control has grown since the Sandy Hook Elementary School shooting — but a majority of Americans still oppose reinstating the federal assault weapons ban.

The poll finds that 58 percent of Americans say they favor stricter gun laws, significantly up from 43 percent in October of 2011. Similarly, 47 percent now favor passing new legislation over merely enforcing existing laws, up from 35 percent in 2011.

Many of the reforms that gun control advocates most frequently propose poll very well — 92 percent support requiring background checks to buy weapons at gun shows, and 62 percent favor a ban on high-capacity magazines that can carry up to 30 bullets.

Voters are still skeptical of reinstating the federal assault weapons ban, however. The poll finds that only 44 percent favor the law, while 51 percent oppose it; those numbers are nearly unchanged from last year, when 43 percent supported the law and 53 percent opposed it.

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Re: Americans Prefer Living in Neighborhoods With Guns

Postby JO 753 » Fri Jun 19, 2015 6:14 pm

xouper wrote:Wrong. I have no such delusion. I have never made such a claim or even hinted at such a claim.


This iz more than a hint:

they show a correlation between race and homicides in the US


You are either segjesting its rase related, or sumthing the United States iz doing to blacks thats not being dun to them in other countryz, like perhaps, providing them with gunz.

I am not the one making racist statements here, you are, when you say "blacks are more prone ...".


See, now you are getting rediculously PC. The stats are there, plain az day. Wutever the root cauze or cauzez, I dont see you denying the stats. Sumthing iz cauzing blacks to have a radically higher rate uv gun insidents than wites.

Seriously, JO, you need to clear the air and explain why your comments are not racist. You can start by explaining what those "other characteristics" are that you claim are causing blacks to commit homicide more than whites.


The entire PC attitude iz a mistake. Calling me rasist bekuz I am not partisipating in denying the reality that therez more than just skin color differentiating the branchez uv the human rase iz foolish.

I think its likely that its more than just cultural factorz that are cauzing the greater level uv gun violens. On average, blacks seem to be less patient, more eazily excitable and less intellijent. Any uv thoze factorz alone make gunz more hazardous. Combined, they are obviously way worse. They also are a contributing cauze uv poverty, wich also increasez the chansez uv gun insidents.

I'll give you the benefit of the doubt that you didn't accurately express your position, but only if you explain what you really meant to say.


Your idea wuz that you were going to get me to back down in order to avoid being labeled az rasist.

True, you did not use the word "illegal". It was implied in your comment. You claimed that committing homicide is using a gun for its intended purpose. Sorry, but guns are not intended to be used illegally. Your assertion is blatantly false.


Lojik error. The function uv a gun iz to kill. Legal or illegal iz not pertinent.

Youre going down a ded end with this thred, xouper. You posted a poll from a known biased sourse, the vote didnt go your way, the stats about gun violense amongst African Americanz are not helping your pro-gun case.
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Re: Americans Prefer Living in Neighborhoods With Guns

Postby JO 753 » Fri Jun 19, 2015 6:23 pm

xouper wrote:Where did you get that 92 percent number from anyway?


Just memory. Looks like I mixed it up with the back ground check number.

Herez a poll question that woud be much more revealing:

Woud you like to be the only person in your area to own a gun?

Kuz really, thats the only way to hav an actual advantaj over potential attackerz. If anybody and everybody can hav a gun, youre only gaining parity by owning a gun and the risk it pozez severely degradez the safety idea.
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Re: Americans Prefer Living in Neighborhoods With Guns

Postby xouper » Fri Jun 19, 2015 7:54 pm

JO 753 wrote:
xouper wrote:Wrong. I have no such delusion. I have never made such a claim or even hinted at such a claim.

This iz more than a hint:

they show a correlation between race and homicides in the US

Where did I say that race was only about skin color? I never said that. You made that up.

JO 753 wrote:You are either segjesting its rase related, or sumthing the United States iz doing to blacks thats not being dun to them in other countryz, like perhaps, providing them with gunz.

I made no claim whatsoever about what the cause is. A correlation does not say anything about cause.

JO 753 wrote:
xouper wrote:I am not the one making racist statements here, you are, when you say "blacks are more prone ...".

See, now you are getting rediculously PC. The stats are there, plain az day. Wutever the root cauze or cauzez, I dont see you denying the stats. Sumthing iz cauzing blacks to have a radically higher rate uv gun insidents than wites.

I am not challenging the numbers in the article you cited. I don't know if they are valid or not, but I have no data that says they are wrong.

What I am challenging is your assertion that you know what the cause is. Just because there is a higher homicide rate among blacks does not mean that being black is the cause. You said that, not me. I was merely repeating the correlation from the article you cited.

JO 753 wrote:I think its likely that its more than just cultural factorz that are cauzing the greater level uv gun violens. On average, blacks seem to be less patient, more eazily excitable and less intellijent.

Seriously?? If that isn't racist, then I don't know what is. I hope you are just pulling my leg here.

JO 753 wrote:They also are a contributing cauze uv poverty, wich also increasez the chansez uv gun insidents.

Poverty is reasonable contributing factor. Poverty however is not synonymous with race.

JO 753 wrote:
xouper wrote:True, you did not use the word "illegal". It was implied in your comment. You claimed that committing homicide is using a gun for its intended purpose. Sorry, but guns are not intended to be used illegally. Your assertion is blatantly false.

Lojik error. The function uv a gun iz to kill. Legal or illegal iz not pertinent.

That is factually incorrect. Committing murder is not the intended purpose of a gun, no matter how loudly you claim otherwise. Just because criminals use guns to commit crimes does not mean that they are using guns in accordance with their intended purpose.

JO 753 wrote:You posted a poll from a known biased sourse,

Even after correcting for the worst case bias -- which your source puts at 6 points -- the Rasmussen poll still shows more than two to one in favor of the right to have a gun in the home for self defense.

JO 753 wrote:the vote didnt go your way,

I never expected it to "go my way". I am not at all surprised by the results, especially given how many gun grabbers there are on this forum. It is not -- and never was -- intended as a scientific poll. It is merely an informal survey of forum opinion, which I claim is not at all representative of the US population.

JO 753 wrote:the stats about gun violense amongst African Americanz are not helping your pro-gun case.

Actually they are. The numbers show there is some other factor besides gun proliferation that is causing the homicide rate. When the homicide rate is significantly different for two groups that have the essentially same access to guns -- which is what your source shows -- then it is blindingly obvious that gun proliferation is not the cause. Your own source refutes your claim that proliferation is the problem.

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Re: Americans Prefer Living in Neighborhoods With Guns

Postby JO 753 » Fri Jun 19, 2015 8:16 pm

xouper wrote:Where did I say that race was only about skin color? I never said that. You made that up.


So tell us. Wut are the differensez and how are they responsible for the stats?
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Re: Americans Prefer Living in Neighborhoods With Guns

Postby xouper » Fri Jun 19, 2015 9:04 pm

JO 753 wrote:
xouper wrote:Where did I say that race was only about skin color? I never said that. You made that up.

So tell us. Wut are the differensez and how are they responsible for the stats?

I don't know. I never said race was the cause. I never said anything at all about what the cause is. I merely repeated what your source said, that there is a correlation between race and homicide rate in the US. Your source said that, not me. They didn't say anything about what the cause might be.

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Re: Americans Prefer Living in Neighborhoods With Guns

Postby TJrandom » Fri Jun 19, 2015 11:12 pm

xouper wrote:
TJrandom wrote:For clarity - people who think thru an issue before responding will likely give different responses than they might when pressed for time.

More clarification please.

Regarding my OP poll, are you saying that taking the time to think about their answer is the explanation for why more people chose option #1?


For clarity.... could be... wouldn`t be surprised if... just one of the possibilities...

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Re: Americans Prefer Living in Neighborhoods With Guns

Postby xouper » Sat Jun 20, 2015 5:03 am

TJrandom wrote:
xouper wrote:Regarding my OP poll, are you saying that taking the time to think about their answer is the explanation for why more people chose option #1?

For clarity.... could be... wouldn`t be surprised if... just one of the possibilities...

I assume that's as much "clarity" as you are willing to offer.

Let's go back to my original interpretation of your remark that you said I misunderstood:

xouper wrote:
TJrandom wrote:
xouper wrote:
JO 753 wrote:Odd how the vote here iz so far off wut Rasmussen got.

I'm not surprised. I'm guessing this forum has more outspoken liberals than outspoken conservatives, especially given its international nature. I assume everyone here already knows a forum poll is not at all scientific.

It could also be because contributors here are thinkers, and not simply randomly called responders.

The second error in your remark is your unfounded accusation that anyone who disagrees with you is not a thinker.

Apparently my initial interpretation was not so far off the mark after all. You claim it is possible that those who disagree with your position are not thinkers. I still consider that to be an unfounded insult to people who are thinkers who come to a different conclusion from yours.

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Re: Americans Prefer Living in Neighborhoods With Guns

Postby Gord » Sat Jun 20, 2015 5:29 am

I didn't vote because there isn't an appropriate option for me.

I would feel safer in a neighbourhood where only specific people were allowed to own guns (for instance, the police), but I could not own a gun for "my own protection", as I would be safer if I didn't own a gun.
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Re: Americans Prefer Living in Neighborhoods With Guns

Postby JO 753 » Sat Jun 20, 2015 5:38 am

You are a wize man.
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Re: Americans Prefer Living in Neighborhoods With Guns

Postby Flash » Sat Jun 20, 2015 5:54 am

My brother in law who lives in the bush (forest) in the Kawartha lake district (that's north east of Toronto, vacationland) has a shotgun but he never takes it out. Once a bear came onto his second floor deck sat on his coach and broke it. My brother in law rushed to the closet where his gun was but couldn't remember where he put the key to open the damn closet. By the time he and his wife figured out where the key was the bear was long gone.

And I am not all that sure that he had shells for the shot gun either. :mrgreen:
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Re: Americans Prefer Living in Neighborhoods With Guns

Postby JO 753 » Sat Jun 20, 2015 6:15 am

Lucky bear!
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Re: Americans Prefer Living in Neighborhoods With Guns

Postby xouper » Sat Jun 20, 2015 6:45 am

Man Faces Charges After Defending Himself from a Bear in His Own Yard
http://reason.com/blog/2013/04/08/man-faces-charges-after-defending-himsel

Richard Ahlstrand, of Auburn, Massachusetts, faces criminal charges after encountering a bear in his back yard and shooting the damned thing to avoid being mauled or eaten. ...

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Re: Americans Prefer Living in Neighborhoods With Guns

Postby JO 753 » Sat Jun 20, 2015 8:36 am

“He went back inside, retrieved a shotgun and decided to shoot the bear,” Chief Sluckis said. “Obviously we believe if Mr. Ahlstrand was truly in fear for his life he would have stayed secured in his home and would have called the police.”


They shoud throw the book at this {!#%@}.
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Re: Americans Prefer Living in Neighborhoods With Guns

Postby TJrandom » Sat Jun 20, 2015 8:53 am

xouper wrote:
TJrandom wrote:
xouper wrote:Regarding my OP poll, are you saying that taking the time to think about their answer is the explanation for why more people chose option #1?

For clarity.... could be... wouldn`t be surprised if... just one of the possibilities...

I assume that's as much "clarity" as you are willing to offer.

Let's go back to my original interpretation of your remark that you said I misunderstood:

xouper wrote:
TJrandom wrote:
xouper wrote:
JO 753 wrote:Odd how the vote here iz so far off wut Rasmussen got.

I'm not surprised. I'm guessing this forum has more outspoken liberals than outspoken conservatives, especially given its international nature. I assume everyone here already knows a forum poll is not at all scientific.

It could also be because contributors here are thinkers, and not simply randomly called responders.

The second error in your remark is your unfounded accusation that anyone who disagrees with you is not a thinker.

Apparently my initial interpretation was not so far off the mark after all. You claim it is possible that those who disagree with your position are not thinkers. I still consider that to be an unfounded insult to people who are thinkers who come to a different conclusion from yours.


Off the mark by miles. I made NO claim - I simply offered suggestions on possible reasons for a difference, just as you suggested why there is a difference. I have no data to base a claim on and I doubt that you have either.

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Re: Americans Prefer Living in Neighborhoods With Guns

Postby xouper » Sat Jun 20, 2015 7:33 pm

TJrandom wrote:
xouper wrote:Apparently my initial interpretation was not so far off the mark after all. You claim it is possible that those who disagree with your position are not thinkers. I still consider that to be an unfounded insult to people who are thinkers who come to a different conclusion from yours.

Off the mark by miles. I made NO claim -

Yes you did. You made a claim about the possibility of something. And you are making the same exact claim again in your very next sentence.

TJrandom wrote:I simply offered suggestions on possible reasons for a difference,

There it is again, a claim that something is possible. I don't think there is any chance in hell your suggestion is possible. I dispute the possibility that those who vote for option #2 are not thinkers.

TJrandom wrote:just as you suggested why there is a difference. I have no data to base a claim on and I doubt that you have either.

Yes, we both made a suggestion about possible cause, but whereas I think I can get data to support my suggestion, I doubt very much you will ever find data for yours.

My complaint to you is that your suggestion is an insult to people who are thinkers who do not come to the same conclusion you do. You are suggesting that those who disagree with you are not thinkers. Based on your two attempts to provide clarity for your position, my interpretation is right on the mark. You very much intended to insult those who disagree with you by saying they are not thinkers. You cannot weasel out of it by saying it was merely a suggestion. The mere suggestion itself is an intentional insult.

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Re: Americans Prefer Living in Neighborhoods With Guns

Postby xouper » Sat Jun 20, 2015 7:50 pm

JO 753 wrote:
“He went back inside, retrieved a shotgun and decided to shoot the bear,” Chief Sluckis said. “Obviously we believe if Mr. Ahlstrand was truly in fear for his life he would have stayed secured in his home and would have called the police.”

They shoud throw the book at this {!#%@}.

If it happened the way Sluckis says it happened -- and that's a mighty big if -- then I agree. But that is a determination of fact for the court to make, not for a journalist to make. I have been unable to find any followup information about any trial, or if perhaps the charges were dropped.

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Re: Americans Prefer Living in Neighborhoods With Guns

Postby JO 753 » Sat Jun 20, 2015 8:56 pm

Hiz own account sez the same thing. He went back in to get the shotgun. He coud hav simply stayed inside. He intended to shoot the bear.
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Re: Americans Prefer Living in Neighborhoods With Guns

Postby TJrandom » Sat Jun 20, 2015 9:41 pm

xouper wrote:
TJrandom wrote:
xouper wrote:Apparently my initial interpretation was not so far off the mark after all. You claim it is possible that those who disagree with your position are not thinkers. I still consider that to be an unfounded insult to people who are thinkers who come to a different conclusion from yours.

Off the mark by miles. I made NO claim -

Yes you did. You made a claim about the possibility of something. And you are making the same exact claim again in your very next sentence.

TJrandom wrote:I simply offered suggestions on possible reasons for a difference,

There it is again, a claim that something is possible. I don't think there is any chance in hell your suggestion is possible. I dispute the possibility that those who vote for option #2 are not thinkers.

TJrandom wrote:just as you suggested why there is a difference. I have no data to base a claim on and I doubt that you have either.

Yes, we both made a suggestion about possible cause, but whereas I think I can get data to support my suggestion, I doubt very much you will ever find data for yours.

My complaint to you is that your suggestion is an insult to people who are thinkers who do not come to the same conclusion you do. You are suggesting that those who disagree with you are not thinkers. Based on your two attempts to provide clarity for your position, my interpretation is right on the mark. You very much intended to insult those who disagree with you by saying they are not thinkers. You cannot weasel out of it by saying it was merely a suggestion. The mere suggestion itself is an intentional insult.


Since you quite obviously insist upon being insulted, please have it your way.

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Re: Americans Prefer Living in Neighborhoods With Guns

Postby xouper » Sat Jun 20, 2015 10:26 pm

TJrandom wrote:Since you quite obviously insist upon being insulted, please have it your way.

Then please retract your insult.

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Re: Americans Prefer Living in Neighborhoods With Guns

Postby xouper » Sat Jun 20, 2015 10:32 pm

JO 753 wrote:Hiz own account sez the same thing. He went back in to get the shotgun. He coud hav simply stayed inside. He intended to shoot the bear.

Where did he say he was in his yard, saw the bear, and went back into the house to get the gun?


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