Gun control in reverse.

Duck and cover
User avatar
Lance Kennedy
True Skeptic
Posts: 10228
Joined: Tue Mar 29, 2005 10:20 pm
Custom Title: Super Skeptic
Location: Paradise, New Zealand

Gun control in reverse.

Postby Lance Kennedy » Fri May 12, 2017 12:13 am

Reference : New Scientist, 6 May 2017, page 22

In the first four months of this year, there have been 105 mass shootings in the USA (defined as more than one person shot dead). This is a substantial increase over the 'normal' rate of mass shootings, and if it continues at this rate, will be the most for decades. The obvious reason for this is the loosening of gun controls by the Trump administration. In very short order, his lawmakers have made it much easier for people with mental illnesses to buy guns.

In addition, suicides by gun are up. Empirical evidence shows that most suicides are impulsive, with usually less than 10 minutes spent contemplating before acting. If no ready means of suicide is available in that time, the suicide does not happen. But ready availability of guns makes that chance disappear. If guns are not available, other methods are seriously less likely to end in death. Gun suicide 'succeeds' about 90% of the time, whereas pill overdose kills only 2% of the time. Suicides are rising in the USA, with a 24% increase from 1999 to 2014, and half of all suicides are by gun.

In addition, this year has seen a spike in accidental deaths by gunshot. Especially true for 3 year olds, who typically shoot themselves playing with guns they find lying around at home.

The National Rifle Association is the enemy of rational thinking in this arena. In the year 2000, the gun makers, Smith and Wesson tried to work with the Clinto administration to improve gun safety by adding locks and restricting magazine size. The response of the NRA was to institute a boycott on Smith and Wesson which nearly drove them out of business.

In 1996, a law was passed which prevents the Centres for Disease Control and Prevention from using research funding to advocate gun control. In effect, this prevents them from doing research into the impact of gun ownership. How can the USA have rational laws to reduce deaths and disabilities if there is no solid science based data to base those laws upon?

User avatar
Gawdzilla Sama
Has No Life
Posts: 19792
Joined: Sun Jun 01, 2008 2:11 am
Custom Title: Deadly but evil.

Re: Gun control in reverse.

Postby Gawdzilla Sama » Fri May 12, 2017 1:24 am

Well, when men get to age T.rump is right now they don't have as much control as they used to. :lol:
Chachacha wrote:"Oh, thweet mythtery of wife, at waft I've found you!"

WWII Resources. Primary sources.
The Myths of Pearl Harbor. Demythologizing the attack.
Hyperwar. Hypertext history of the Second World War.
The greatest place to work in the entire United States.

User avatar
ElectricMonk
Persistent Poster
Posts: 3289
Joined: Thu Mar 26, 2015 6:21 pm
Custom Title: His Beatitude

Re: Gun control in reverse.

Postby ElectricMonk » Fri May 12, 2017 6:01 am

guns are bringing jobs to America:

https://www.outdoorhub.com/news/2017/05 ... y-georgia/

praise be to Donald!

guns also lower unemployment (by killing people) and healthcare costs (by being a single-dose anti-depressant).
I've come up with a set of rules that describe our reactions to technologies:
Spoiler:
1. Anything that is in the world when you’re born is normal and ordinary and is just a natural part of the way the world works.
2. Anything that's invented between when you’re fifteen and thirty-five is new and exciting and revolutionary and you can probably get a career in it.
3. Anything invented after you're thirty-five is against the natural order of things.
- Douglas Adams

User avatar
fromthehills
Has More Than 9K Posts
Posts: 9890
Joined: Wed Aug 19, 2009 2:01 am
Location: Woostone

Re: Gun control in reverse.

Postby fromthehills » Fri May 12, 2017 1:31 pm

I'm neither a fan of Trump nor the NRA. I did however order 500rds of 7.62x51 yesterday.

I can't find a source on the internet that confirms 105 mass shootings in the US. I found one that says 91, but it's a dubious site, methinks as I haven't heard of it before, and it's click bait looking. Here's what motherjones has put together:

http://www.motherjones.com/politics/201 ... -full-data

User avatar
Lance Kennedy
True Skeptic
Posts: 10228
Joined: Tue Mar 29, 2005 10:20 pm
Custom Title: Super Skeptic
Location: Paradise, New Zealand

Re: Gun control in reverse.

Postby Lance Kennedy » Fri May 12, 2017 7:40 pm

My source, Hills, for the 105, was New Scientist. I do not know where their writer got his data. As I pointed out, one of the problems with this issue is the legal barrier to research.

User avatar
OlegTheBatty
True Skeptic
Posts: 10528
Joined: Thu Mar 27, 2008 2:35 pm
Custom Title: Uppity Atheist

Re: Gun control in reverse.

Postby OlegTheBatty » Fri May 12, 2017 10:16 pm

There is no where near enough data to be drawing conclusions even if the New Scientist info is accurate. There are too many other explanations available. A lot of Americans are deeply disturbed by the election of Agent Orange, and the way his administration is playing out. For already distraught folks, this could be enough to push them over the edge into violence against themselves or others.

How many of those acts of gun violence were committed by people who purchased their guns after the changes to legislation, and who would have been unable to purchase them earlier?

Over such a short time frame, it could well be a statistical fluctuation that has no meaning at all.

Just for starters . . .
. . . with the satisfied air of a man who thinks he has an idea of his own because he has commented on the idea of another . . . - Alexandre Dumas 'The Count of Monte Cristo"

There is no statement so absurd that it has not been uttered by some philosopher. - Cicero

User avatar
Lance Kennedy
True Skeptic
Posts: 10228
Joined: Tue Mar 29, 2005 10:20 pm
Custom Title: Super Skeptic
Location: Paradise, New Zealand

Re: Gun control in reverse.

Postby Lance Kennedy » Fri May 12, 2017 10:26 pm

You may be correct, Oleg. Until that idiot law preventing meaningful research is rescinded, which it will not be under the idiot Trump, getting data is difficult.

But I would be inclined to suggest that this, limited though it may be, is against the crazy book that suggests more guns means less crime.

User avatar
fromthehills
Has More Than 9K Posts
Posts: 9890
Joined: Wed Aug 19, 2009 2:01 am
Location: Woostone

Re: Gun control in reverse.

Postby fromthehills » Sat May 13, 2017 3:19 pm

I'm always for research. I do wish the CDC could go thoroughly into it.

Since Cheeto Freak has been in office, he repealed one executive order that tries to prevent the mentally ill from buying guns. Which was just common sense, Donny doesn't like common sense. But it's no easier, and it wasn't any harder under Obama to buy guns, except for the artificial bubble created by gun nuts. But if I were a gun shop owner, I'd vote Democrat every time. Gun and ammo sales have dropped since the Fanta Menace took office. The opposite of what you're saying, Lance.

User avatar
fromthehills
Has More Than 9K Posts
Posts: 9890
Joined: Wed Aug 19, 2009 2:01 am
Location: Woostone

Re: Gun control in reverse.

Postby fromthehills » Sat May 13, 2017 3:23 pm

I heard something like" of course he repealed the rule to prevent the mentally ill from buying guns, otherwise his base wouldn't be able to protect themselves."

Aztexan
King of the Limericks
King of the Limericks
Posts: 7981
Joined: Sun Apr 01, 2007 10:39 pm

Re: Gun control in reverse.

Postby Aztexan » Sat May 13, 2017 8:56 pm

Yeah {!#%@} gun control. I'm stocking up. Buying a new semi automatic rifle this summer. Tons of rounds.
Our government is being run by white supremacists and nazi sympathizers. They also have the backing from cops. To them, my brown skin makes me the enemy. I say they're goddamn right. {!#%@} them if they they {!#%@} with me first.
trump is literally a piece of {!#%@}.

User avatar
Lance Kennedy
True Skeptic
Posts: 10228
Joined: Tue Mar 29, 2005 10:20 pm
Custom Title: Super Skeptic
Location: Paradise, New Zealand

Re: Gun control in reverse.

Postby Lance Kennedy » Sun May 14, 2017 12:03 am

Hills

It is very true that there is a weird relationship between gun control and buying guns.
It is like telling a kid not to do something, to ensure he does it. So when the gun nutters hear about possible gun restrictions, they run out and buy some more. In terms of crime, it makes no difference, since a person who owns 300 guns is not more likely to commit a gun crime than a person who owns 3.

In the USA, it is estimated (New Scientist) that there are 320 million guns in private hands, owned by 100 million people. This means that two thirds of Americans are not gun nutters. Thus, the percentage of sane people is not lower than other nations.

The problem comes when the WRONG people get guns. Reducing the barrier to buying guns for mentally unstable people is an obvious thing to avoid. But you got Trump!

User avatar
Gawdzilla Sama
Has No Life
Posts: 19792
Joined: Sun Jun 01, 2008 2:11 am
Custom Title: Deadly but evil.

Re: Gun control in reverse.

Postby Gawdzilla Sama » Sun May 14, 2017 12:43 am

The "unstable people" include people who think they are making the world safer by carrying guns where that is inappropriate.
Chachacha wrote:"Oh, thweet mythtery of wife, at waft I've found you!"

WWII Resources. Primary sources.
The Myths of Pearl Harbor. Demythologizing the attack.
Hyperwar. Hypertext history of the Second World War.
The greatest place to work in the entire United States.

User avatar
fromthehills
Has More Than 9K Posts
Posts: 9890
Joined: Wed Aug 19, 2009 2:01 am
Location: Woostone

Re: Gun control in reverse.

Postby fromthehills » Sun May 14, 2017 3:43 am

Lance Kennedy wrote:Hills

It is very true that there is a weird relationship between gun control and buying guns.
It is like telling a kid not to do something, to ensure he does it. So when the gun nutters hear about possible gun restrictions, they run out and buy some more. In terms of crime, it makes no difference, since a person who owns 300 guns is not more likely to commit a gun crime than a person who owns 3.

In the USA, it is estimated (New Scientist) that there are 320 million guns in private hands, owned by 100 million people. This means that two thirds of Americans are not gun nutters. Thus, the percentage of sane people is not lower than other nations.

The problem comes when the WRONG people get guns. Reducing the barrier to buying guns for mentally unstable people is an obvious thing to avoid. But you got Trump!



This is ad hominem. I'm quite sane for the time being, thanks. And yes, we have Trump, which is quite distressing to most of us. I'd like you to not presume that you know all Americans. Perhaps my affinity for guns is my sacred cow, but your affinity to pontificate on American beliefs is yours. During my hiatus, I've actually come to a position closer to your own, but I see you have not budged a bit. What's it called?.. Thinking about {!#%@}, I do believe.

Well, I have to get to bed, I have my weekly Sunday morning shooting to do tomorrow. Every shot that hits paper makes an angel cry, don't you know.

User avatar
fromthehills
Has More Than 9K Posts
Posts: 9890
Joined: Wed Aug 19, 2009 2:01 am
Location: Woostone

Re: Gun control in reverse.

Postby fromthehills » Sun May 14, 2017 3:44 am

Gawdzilla Sama wrote:The "unstable people" include people who think they are making the world safer by carrying guns where that is inappropriate.



I actually agree with this.

User avatar
Lance Kennedy
True Skeptic
Posts: 10228
Joined: Tue Mar 29, 2005 10:20 pm
Custom Title: Super Skeptic
Location: Paradise, New Zealand

Re: Gun control in reverse.

Postby Lance Kennedy » Sun May 14, 2017 5:37 am

Hills

I most definately do not think I know all Americans. But I do know a lot.
I have met the whole spectrum, from the red necked "ugly American" to some utterly lovely and fine human beings. I feel I can generalise and say that Americans range pretty much in the same way other nationalities do, from utter looneys to very rational. When I suggest that about a third of Americans are living on the looney side of sanity, that is not an insult, since that also describes everybody else. Being a gun nutter is one of the symptoms.

User avatar
fromthehills
Has More Than 9K Posts
Posts: 9890
Joined: Wed Aug 19, 2009 2:01 am
Location: Woostone

Re: Gun control in reverse.

Postby fromthehills » Sun May 14, 2017 1:21 pm

Lance Kennedy wrote:Hills

I most definately do not think I know all Americans. But I do know a lot.
I have met the whole spectrum, from the red necked "ugly American" to some utterly lovely and fine human beings. I feel I can generalise and say that Americans range pretty much in the same way other nationalities do, from utter looneys to very rational. When I suggest that about a third of Americans are living on the looney side of sanity, that is not an insult, since that also describes everybody else. Being a gun nutter is one of the symptoms.



Fair enough


Return to “Guns”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest