"Human Trafficking"

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Re: "Human Trafficking"

Postby Gord » Mon Feb 27, 2017 9:01 am

TJrandom wrote:
Gord wrote:
Tom Palven wrote:...it is my assertion that a loose association of the powers-that-be and latter-day Moral Majority-type Carrie Nation wannabes have cobbled together a phony narrative that "The World's Oldest Profession" is being controlled by a vast shadowy underground network that I say doesn't exist.

And the UN. Don't forget the UN.

http://www.unodc.org/unodc/data-and-ana ... lotip.html


Within that link is a further link to an excel spreadsheet of `Detected victims by forms of exploitation` - and sexual predation totals to roughly 50%. But then it is a UN spreadsheet, so those numbers must be fake. :roll:

All numbers are fake, because they're know to be Arabic and therefore Muslim...somehow. Ask Trump. Trump will know.

Thanks, Trump.
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Re: "Human Trafficking"

Postby Tom Palven » Mon Feb 27, 2017 9:10 am

Gord wrote:
Tom Palven wrote:...it is my assertion that a loose association of the powers-that-be and latter-day Moral Majority-type Carrie Nation wannabes have cobbled together a phony narrative that "The World's Oldest Profession" is being controlled by a vast shadowy underground network that I say doesn't exist.

And the UN. Don't forget the UN.

http://www.unodc.org/unodc/data-and-ana ... lotip.html


My main question, Gord, is not how much truth there is in the CIA report, but why it was published in 1999 and again in 2017 when involuntary servitude has been illegal and subject to criminal penalties in the US since 1865?

Is it really because voluntary prostitution, which is legal in all of or parts or Australia, New Zealand, Thailand, the US, Germany, Belgium, and many other countries has suddenly morphed into kidnappings of crisis proportions despite the best efforts of the CIA, FBI. Interpol, etc?

Or are we being sold a bill of goods for some reason?
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Re: "Human Trafficking"

Postby TJrandom » Mon Feb 27, 2017 9:21 am

Tom, prostitution is rampant everywhere (well, almost) – and the rate of prostitution far exceeds the rate of human trafficking. So a focus on human trafficking is not a way of reducing or attacking prostitution in any meaningful way.

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Re: "Human Trafficking"

Postby Tom Palven » Mon Feb 27, 2017 10:07 am

TJrandom wrote:Tom, prostitution is rampant everywhere (well, almost) – and the rate of prostitution far exceeds the rate of human trafficking. So a focus on human trafficking is not a way of reducing or attacking prostitution in any meaningful way.


Maybe it's time that we agree on a definition of Human Trafficking so we know what we are talking about.

To you, does "human trafficking" mean kidnapping people and forcing them into slavery, or simply offering someone a job as a prostitute?

It may be easier to reach some logical conclusions after we define our terms.
Last edited by Tom Palven on Mon Feb 27, 2017 10:20 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: "Human Trafficking"

Postby TJrandom » Mon Feb 27, 2017 10:13 am

It may not be full kidnapping, but certainly the former - and not simply pimping or self-sales. I have not looked for the formal government/legal definition.

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Re: "Human Trafficking"

Postby Tom Palven » Mon Feb 27, 2017 10:30 am

TJrandom wrote:It may not be full kidnapping, but certainly the former - and not simply pimping or self-sales. I have not looked for the formal government/legal definition.


Would offering a person a job picking apples or tomatoes, or teaching English in China be considered "human trafficking" in your estimation?

I'm not interested in the formal government/legal definition, just a definition that we can agree on.
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Re: "Human Trafficking"

Postby TJrandom » Mon Feb 27, 2017 11:19 am

Tom Palven wrote:
TJrandom wrote:It may not be full kidnapping, but certainly the former - and not simply pimping or self-sales. I have not looked for the formal government/legal definition.


Would offering a person a job picking apples or tomatoes, or teaching English in China be considered "human trafficking" in your estimation?

I'm not interested in the formal government/legal definition, just a definition that we can agree on.


Only if that job was suddenly switched under pressure/coercion to sex worker, or some other job that the person didn`t want to perform, maybe their passport withheld, maybe prevented from leaving, maybe confined on a ship/locked structure, etc.

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Re: "Human Trafficking"

Postby Gord » Mon Feb 27, 2017 12:49 pm

Tom Palven wrote:
Gord wrote:
Tom Palven wrote:...it is my assertion that a loose association of the powers-that-be and latter-day Moral Majority-type Carrie Nation wannabes have cobbled together a phony narrative that "The World's Oldest Profession" is being controlled by a vast shadowy underground network that I say doesn't exist.

And the UN. Don't forget the UN.

http://www.unodc.org/unodc/data-and-ana ... lotip.html


My main question, Gord, is not how much truth there is in the CIA report, but why it was published in 1999 and again in 2017 when involuntary servitude has been illegal and subject to criminal penalties in the US since 1865?

Is it really because voluntary prostitution, which is legal in all of or parts or Australia, New Zealand, Thailand, the US, Germany, Belgium, and many other countries has suddenly morphed into kidnappings of crisis proportions despite the best efforts of the CIA, FBI. Interpol, etc?

Or are we being sold a bill of goods for some reason?

Can't it be a separate thing from regular forms of prostitution? Human trafficking doesn't have to be about prostitution at all, but if it is, then it could be happening side-by-side with other forms of prostitution.

And just how much human trafficking does there need to be before you think it's of "crisis proportions"? I don't understand why you used that term.
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Re: "Human Trafficking"

Postby Tom Palven » Mon Feb 27, 2017 1:40 pm

Gord wrote:
And just how much human trafficking does there need to be before you think it's of "crisis proportions"? I don't understand why you used that term.


I meant to use the term "Biblical proportions."

If you read the CIA monograph first published in 1999 in an above link you will find all kinds of assertions and unproven allegations that International Trafficking in Women to the United States achieved Biblical proportions then, and apparently has continued until now, February 20, 2017 when it was reprinted; all this despite, again, the efforts of the CIA, FBI, Interpol, and state and local police agencies.

It's hard to prove a negative, and I can't. Hell, I can't disprove the anecdotal evidence in The Watchtower, but I just ain't buyin' what I think is just more CIA Kool-Aid.
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Re: "Human Trafficking"

Postby TJrandom » Mon Feb 27, 2017 11:12 pm

Tom, as I read about human trafficking, I`d agree that what is occurring around the world today meets your use of `biblical proportions`. There being great economic value to the perpetrators – maybe only second to drug smuggling, I see no reason to think that the CIA, FBI, or any other combination of police services will be able to stop it any time soon.

Of biblical proportions - of or pertaining to a thing or occurrence having vast size, extent, or consequences.

http://www.yourdictionary.com/of-biblical-proportions

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Re: "Human Trafficking"

Postby Tom Palven » Tue Feb 28, 2017 7:43 am

TJrandom wrote:Tom, as I read about human trafficking, I`d agree that what is occurring around the world today meets your use of `biblical proportions`. There being great economic value to the perpetrators – maybe only second to drug smuggling, I see no reason to think that the CIA, FBI, or any other combination of police services will be able to stop it any time soon.

Of biblical proportions - of or pertaining to a thing or occurrence having vast size, extent, or consequences.

http://www.yourdictionary.com/of-biblical-proportions


It was the CIA that published the booklet International Trafficking in Women to the United States: A Contemporary Manifestation of Slavery and Organized Crime. in 1999 and reprinted it in 2017.

The term "human trafficking" was first used in the late 1990's as far as I can determine from the web, but whether the CIA invented the term or just promoted it, I don't know.

Doesn't it seem a stretch, though, that the warriors at the CIA who overthrow democratically-elected governments, drone emerging political leaders, render captives off to various places to be tortured, and so on, have suddenly become Social Justice Warriors? :lol:

The War on Drugs has been hyped for years (Think of Reefer Madness), and then the War on Terror, and now the War on Trafficking.

Aren't you getting a little war-weary?
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Re: "Human Trafficking"

Postby TJrandom » Tue Feb 28, 2017 8:28 am

The dictionary.com site gives `human trafficking` an origin between 1985 and 1990, without quoting a first usage – but even if it was your Aunt Mary, or my Grandmother Katsumata who first used the term, you might think the CIA implanted that thought – no? ;)

And I googled `war on human trafficking`, fully expecting to find your post, but it does seem that someone beat you to it. And, yes, I am war-weary. So sad that humans treat their fellow contemporaries so poorly, and as commodities to boot. But just to put your mind at ease, human trafficking didn`t start with the CIA, or in 1985. I don`t have a history of slavery handy, but most people were slaves in one form or another until relatively recently. Human rights, woman’s rights, the rights of children, the rights of the elderly, etc., etc., are all recent concepts – and like it or not, there are bad people out there who would abuse anyone and everyone for a single shilling (a yen, a won, a mil – the 1/1000 of a pound mil, etc.) if they could get away with it. So in war we are…

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Re: "Human Trafficking"

Postby Gord » Tue Feb 28, 2017 9:05 am

Gord wrote:http://www.unodc.org/unodc/data-and-analysis/glotip.html

Let's go back to this website, find the document for North America, and pull up some figures.

The United States of America criminalizes trafficking for commercial sexual exploitation and forced labour.

Investigations and suspects

(Fiscal years (FY) in the USA run from 1 October -30 September. For example, FY2010 started on 1 October 2009 and ended on 30 September 2010. The numbers concerning prosecutions and convictions include only proceedings related to federal trafficking in persons offences. These totals do not include child sex trafficking cases brought under non-trafficking statutes. They also do not include state-based prosecutions and convictions.)

Number of persons prosecuted
FY2010: 181
FY2011: 213
FY2012: 200
FY2013: 253
FY2014: 335

Number of persons convicted
FY2010: 141
FY2011: 151
FY2012: 138
FY2013: 174
FY2014: 184

Source: U.S. Department of State.

Are these numbers indicative of "Biblical proportions"? But it looks to me like there are efforts to stop human trafficking, at least "for commercial sexual exploitation and forced labour" and not including "child sex trafficking cases brought under non-trafficking statues" or "state-based prosecutions and convictions" which, I suppose, could also be going on even if I don't have numbers for them handy.

Is 1,182 over five years a large number of people to be prosecuted federally? I know, only 788 were convicted, but it still seems like a lot to me if you think human trafficking isn't really happening.
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Re: "Human Trafficking"

Postby Tom Palven » Tue Feb 28, 2017 12:11 pm

I rest my case that the term "Human Trafficking" is CIA Newspeak propaganda used as a scare tactic, fully expecting to lose in the court of public opinion.

If I can't win this argument among skeptics, it's doubtful I could win it anywhere in the US, possibly not in the whole world, and should accept the fact that human trafficking as a major new plague is settled science.
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Re: "Human Trafficking"

Postby TJrandom » Tue Feb 28, 2017 12:27 pm

Tom Palven wrote:I rest my case that the term "Human Trafficking" is CIA Newspeak propaganda used as a scare tactic, fully expecting to lose in the court of public opinion.

If I can't win this argument among skeptics, it's doubtful I could win it anywhere in the US, possibly not in the whole world, and should accept the fact that human trafficking as a major new plague is settled science.


Congratulations. (except it isn`t a new plague, but rather just one that is getting more attention these days.)

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Re: "Human Trafficking"

Postby Gord » Tue Feb 28, 2017 1:15 pm

TJrandom wrote:
Tom Palven wrote:I rest my case that the term "Human Trafficking" is CIA Newspeak propaganda used as a scare tactic, fully expecting to lose in the court of public opinion.

If I can't win this argument among skeptics, it's doubtful I could win it anywhere in the US, possibly not in the whole world, and should accept the fact that human trafficking as a major new plague is settled science.

Congratulations. (except it isn`t a new plague, but rather just one that is getting more attention these days.)

As far as I'm aware, it's getting less. Maybe I'm watching different news sources though. Mine are swamped by Trumpshit these days.
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Re: "Human Trafficking"

Postby Tom Palven » Tue Feb 28, 2017 6:43 pm

Gord wrote:
TJrandom wrote:
Tom Palven wrote:I rest my case that the term "Human Trafficking" is CIA Newspeak propaganda used as a scare tactic, fully expecting to lose in the court of public opinion.

If I can't win this argument among skeptics, it's doubtful I could win it anywhere in the US, possibly not in the whole world, and should accept the fact that human trafficking as a major new plague is settled science.

Congratulations. (except it isn`t a new plague, but rather just one that is getting more attention these days.)

As far as I'm aware, it's getting less. Maybe I'm watching different news sources though. Mine are swamped by Trumpshit these days.


Maybe it is getting less, but the CIA just reprinted its 17-year old document which contains no identification as to author, publisher or date of first publication, that says that the US is being attacked by "A Contemporary Manifestation of Slavery and Organized Crime."

Hermann Goering, Nazi Luftwaffe Commander, said "(although) the people don't want war...(they) can always be brought to do the bidding of their leaders...All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked. It works the same in every country..."

Hitler's propaganda minister Joseph Goebbels said "the truth is the mortal enemy of the State."

Our secret police are telling us that we are being attacked by internationally organized crime.

I wouldn't want to try to connect any dots here. Just sayin'.

And now that I've invoked Godwin's Law with my Nazi references, I should be truly done with this topic.
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Re: "Human Trafficking"

Postby OlegTheBatty » Tue Feb 28, 2017 7:11 pm

Gord wrote:
Gord wrote:http://www.unodc.org/unodc/data-and-analysis/glotip.html

Let's go back to this website, find the document for North America, and pull up some figures.

The United States of America criminalizes trafficking for commercial sexual exploitation and forced labour.

Investigations and suspects

(Fiscal years (FY) in the USA run from 1 October -30 September. For example, FY2010 started on 1 October 2009 and ended on 30 September 2010. The numbers concerning prosecutions and convictions include only proceedings related to federal trafficking in persons offences. These totals do not include child sex trafficking cases brought under non-trafficking statutes. They also do not include state-based prosecutions and convictions.)

Number of persons prosecuted
FY2010: 181
FY2011: 213
FY2012: 200
FY2013: 253
FY2014: 335

Number of persons convicted
FY2010: 141
FY2011: 151
FY2012: 138
FY2013: 174
FY2014: 184

Source: U.S. Department of State.

Are these numbers indicative of "Biblical proportions"? But it looks to me like there are efforts to stop human trafficking, at least "for commercial sexual exploitation and forced labour" and not including "child sex trafficking cases brought under non-trafficking statues" or "state-based prosecutions and convictions" which, I suppose, could also be going on even if I don't have numbers for them handy.

Is 1,182 over five years a large number of people to be prosecuted federally? I know, only 788 were convicted, but it still seems like a lot to me if you think human trafficking isn't really happening.


Yabbut, 'Biblical Proportions'?
New York City alone gets 2 to 3 times that many murders per year (Comparing annual to annual).
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Re: "Human Trafficking"

Postby Tom Palven » Tue Feb 28, 2017 10:26 pm

I have a morbid curiosity about what new travesties the CIA, the other 16 secret police agencies, and rogues in the mold of Ollie North are working on for encores.
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Re: "Human Trafficking"

Postby Gord » Wed Mar 01, 2017 2:20 am

Tom Palven wrote:Maybe it is getting less, but the CIA just reprinted its 17-year old document which contains no identification as to author, publisher or date of first publication, that says that the US is being attacked by "A Contemporary Manifestation of Slavery and Organized Crime."

Then how do you know the CIA reprinted it? It could have been a private citizen or group.
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Re: "Human Trafficking"

Postby Tom Palven » Wed Mar 01, 2017 3:48 am

Gord wrote:
Tom Palven wrote:Maybe it is getting less, but the CIA just reprinted its 17-year old document which contains no identification as to author, publisher or date of first publication, that says that the US is being attacked by "A Contemporary Manifestation of Slavery and Organized Crime."

Then how do you know the CIA reprinted it? It could have been a private citizen or group.


Good point, Gord.

I don't know who reprinted it.

Do you have any idea who it was?
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Re: "Human Trafficking"

Postby TJrandom » Wed Mar 01, 2017 9:05 pm

Was it you, Tom? :lol:

It wasn`t me... honest!

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Re: "Human Trafficking"

Postby Tom Palven » Wed Mar 01, 2017 11:51 pm

The CIA may be as pure as the driven snow with its concern about human trafficking. 

One can go with "If its parents were ducks, and it looks like a duck, walks like a duck..." or as Freud said, "Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar."

But, I wonder with morbid curiosity what schemes the CIA, the other 16 secret police agencies, and rogue operatives in the mold of Ollie North may come up with during the Trump regime to machen Amerika wieder gros und Amerika uber alles!
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Re: "Human Trafficking"

Postby Matthew Ellard » Thu Mar 02, 2017 1:32 am

Tom Palven wrote:The CIA may be as pure as the driven snow with its concern about human trafficking. !

I just think it odd that this is a matter for the CIA rather than the FBI or Homeland security. Sure, there may be related money laundering issues to fund complementary crimes (weapons imports, insurgency funding) but it doesn't make sense for the CIA to have an opinion.

https://www.fbi.gov/investigate/civil-r ... rafficking
FBI : WHAT WE INVESTIGATE : Human Trafficking/Involuntary Servitude

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Re: "Human Trafficking"

Postby TJrandom » Thu Mar 02, 2017 4:39 am

Being of biblical proportions, it takes both agencies.... :?

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Re: "Human Trafficking"

Postby OutOfBreath » Thu Mar 02, 2017 7:20 am

Matthew Ellard wrote:
Tom Palven wrote:The CIA may be as pure as the driven snow with its concern about human trafficking. !

I just think it odd that this is a matter for the CIA rather than the FBI or Homeland security. Sure, there may be related money laundering issues to fund complementary crimes (weapons imports, insurgency funding) but it doesn't make sense for the CIA to have an opinion.

https://www.fbi.gov/investigate/civil-r ... rafficking
FBI : WHAT WE INVESTIGATE : Human Trafficking/Involuntary Servitude

Well the CIA do compile a lot of worldwide statistics. The cia factbook and so on. So maybe they just compiled this as well? Possibly on request or just because they gather everything that might possibly have to do with crime and security.

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Re: "Human Trafficking"

Postby Tom Palven » Thu Mar 02, 2017 11:23 pm

OutOfBreath wrote:
Matthew Ellard wrote:
Tom Palven wrote:The CIA may be as pure as the driven snow with its concern about human trafficking. !

I just think it odd that this is a matter for the CIA rather than the FBI or Homeland security. Sure, there may be related money laundering issues to fund complementary crimes (weapons imports, insurgency funding) but it doesn't make sense for the CIA to have an opinion.

https://www.fbi.gov/investigate/civil-r ... rafficking
FBI : WHAT WE INVESTIGATE : Human Trafficking/Involuntary Servitude

Well the CIA do compile a lot of worldwide statistics. The cia factbook and so on. So maybe they just compiled this as well? Possibly on request or just because they gather everything that might possibly have to do with crime and security.

Peace
Dan


From at least 1953 when the CIA helped overthrow the only democratically-elected government in a Muslim country in the Mid-East with Operation Ajax, until the present, it has been involved in murders, drug dealing, prostitution, and on and on, just like other countries' secret police.

Maybe few, or none, of the allegations in this link below are true, but I' still be still a bit skeptical that suddenly the CIA has become a bunch of Social Justice Warriors.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OAfXFbYKKGw
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Re: "Human Trafficking"

Postby Matthew Ellard » Fri Mar 03, 2017 12:01 am

Tom Palven wrote: I' still be still a bit skeptical that suddenly the CIA has become a bunch of Social Justice Warriors.
I would totally agree that the CIA are not Social Justice Warriors. It's not their mandate. However, there are a lot of crossover matters, like international prostitution and money laundering of profits, that do concern the CIA.

I'm not saying this is a good thing or a bad thing, just that it happens.
:D

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Re: "Human Trafficking"

Postby OutOfBreath » Fri Mar 03, 2017 8:49 am

Tom Palven wrote:
OutOfBreath wrote:Well the CIA do compile a lot of worldwide statistics. The cia factbook and so on. So maybe they just compiled this as well? Possibly on request or just because they gather everything that might possibly have to do with crime and security.

Peace
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From at least 1953 when the CIA helped overthrow the only democratically-elected government in a Muslim country in the Mid-East with Operation Ajax, until the present, it has been involved in murders, drug dealing, prostitution, and on and on, just like other countries' secret police.

Maybe few, or none, of the allegations in this link below are true, but I' still be still a bit skeptical that suddenly the CIA has become a bunch of Social Justice Warriors.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OAfXFbYKKGw

CIA is also or perhaps foremost an intelligence gathering agency. Lots of general global statistical information is well within that mandate. That they're also involved in cloak and dagger stuff, doesnt mean that's all they do. They provide information to the us government and also the us public. (They are a public agency with bureacrats with civil service ethos) https://www.cia.gov/library/publication ... -factbook/

So I dont think they lie about general global crime stats, as I dont see what the purpose would be.

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Re: "Human Trafficking"

Postby Tom Palven » Fri Mar 03, 2017 9:58 am

OutOfBreath wrote:
Tom Palven wrote:
OutOfBreath wrote:
CIA is also or perhaps foremost an intelligence gathering agency. Lots of general global statistical information is well within that mandate. That they're also involved in cloak and dagger stuff, doesnt mean that's all they do.

Peace
Dan


Couldn't we say the same thing about the KGB, Der Geheime Sataatspolizei, SAVAK,and Mossad? What would you think about a booklet on social justice for gays, blacks, or women, that one of them surreptitiously produced?

Wasn't Hitler responsible for the Volkswagen and was kind to his dog? Did the fact that Mussolini made the trains run on time make him a good person?

Do you defend Hitler and Mussolini with irrelevancies?

I would point out that Republican George Bush senior, former head of the CIA, while on the Presidential campaign trail, in answer to a question about atheists said that he didn't think that they qualified as American citizens, and that recent Democrat CIA director John Brennan defended the use of torture and the rendition of US prisoners to such places as Morocco to be tortured.
Last edited by Tom Palven on Fri Mar 03, 2017 10:26 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: "Human Trafficking"

Postby OutOfBreath » Fri Mar 03, 2017 10:26 am

Tom Palven wrote:
OutOfBreath wrote:
Tom Palven wrote:
OutOfBreath wrote:
CIA is also or perhaps foremost an intelligence gathering agency. Lots of general global statistical information is well within that mandate. That they're also involved in cloak and dagger stuff, doesnt mean that's all they do.

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Dan


Couldn't we say the same thing about the KGB, Der Geheime Sataatspolizei, SAVAK,and Mossad?

Probably, to some degree. There is a difference between such agencies in dictatorship conditions and in (relatively) open democratic ones, however.

Wasn't Hitler responsible for the Volkswagen and was kind to his dog? Did the fact that Mussolini made the trains run on time make him a good person?

Do you defend Hitler and Mussolini with irrelevancies?

I dont defend anyone, I am describing what CIA do, and add in my knowledge and experience working in a large public bureaucracy (which is what the CIA is). It seems to me it's you committing the error you attribute me. Paraphrased: "since Hitler was a bad man, he must mistreat his dog". Or rather: "since the CIA has been up to {!#%@} in the past, they are always up to {!#%@}, and everything they do serve a sinister purpose."

I'm not buying that, especially about pretty uncontroversial statistics.

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Dan
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Re: "Human Trafficking"

Postby Matthew Ellard » Sat Mar 04, 2017 1:50 am

Tom Palven wrote:Couldn't we say the same thing about the KGB
The Комите́т госуда́рственной безопа́сности no longer exists and was a name encompassing all Russian non-military intelligence services. That's why its old logo had both the sword ( The SVR foreign service.) and the shield (The FSB domestic service).
KGB.jpg


I have personally wandered through Lubyanka in Moscow, as it contains the KGB museum.
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Re: "Human Trafficking"

Postby OutOfBreath » Sun Mar 05, 2017 12:22 pm

https://www.unicef.org/media/media_94941.html
NEW YORK/GENEVA, 28 February 2017 – Refugee and migrant children and women are routinely suffering sexual violence, exploitation, abuse and detention along the Central Mediterranean migration route from North Africa to Italy, UNICEF warned in a new report.


So a very real problem, unless unicef is just another arm of the CIA...

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What is perceived as real becomes real in its consequences.

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Re: "Human Trafficking"

Postby Matthew Ellard » Sun Mar 05, 2017 10:37 pm

OutOfBreath wrote:So a very real problem, unless unicef is just another arm of the CIA...

Well, put it this way ........UNESCO hasn't been bereft of Commonwealth and European intelligence officers, reviewing international scientific exchanges, in the past. :D

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Re: "Human Trafficking"

Postby OutOfBreath » Mon Mar 06, 2017 9:02 am

Matthew Ellard wrote:
OutOfBreath wrote:So a very real problem, unless unicef is just another arm of the CIA...

Well, put it this way ........UNESCO hasn't been bereft of Commonwealth and European intelligence officers, reviewing international scientific exchanges, in the past. :D

Mum's the word. *tap nose* *wink*

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What is perceived as real becomes real in its consequences.

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Re: "Human Trafficking"

Postby Jeff_36 » Wed Mar 08, 2017 3:14 am

Tom Palven wrote:Can anyone point me to an article that debunks the "human trafficking" scare, scam, hoax, lie, or whatever it is?

To me this relatively new-sounding cause is just the same old Carrie Nation morality crusade along the lines of combatting alcohol consumption or Reefer Madness.

Kidnapping constitutes coercion and is unethical and illegal everywhere, but this anti-human trafficking is focused much more on the prevention of voluntary prostitution than kidnapping and involuntary servitude.

I've searched a bit in Wendy McElroy's site, tried a google search that included Greta Christina and COYOTE, but so far haven't found what I'm looking for.


It's no scam. There have been many cases of it in Canada alone - women in poor Eastern European or Asian counties are told that they will be working in restaurants or stores in the west, but upon arrival they are forced into sexual slavery. There have been court cases and newspaper articles about it. There was even a book published on it called The Natashas.

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Re: "Human Trafficking"

Postby psychiatry is a scam » Mon Mar 13, 2017 12:22 am

just noticed a story - Philadelphia / Roosevelt inn

unusual only in that she got legal help
for the real minority ; there will be no justice , there will be no peace .
makes sense 2me , so it has 2be wrong . :burn:

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Re: "Human Trafficking"

Postby Tom Palven » Sat Mar 18, 2017 7:31 am

Would the CIA/Deep State rather wring their hands promoting the subject of "human trafficking" than discuss the daily direct murder and maiming of innocent men, women, and children with their drones and bombs?
http://news.antiwar.com/2017/03/17/us-a ... ng-scores/
Last edited by Tom Palven on Sat Mar 18, 2017 8:41 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: "Human Trafficking"

Postby TJrandom » Sat Mar 18, 2017 8:41 am

Pffft... I thought it was the NRA that is the `deep state` - supporting over 30,000 deaths a year.

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Re: "Human Trafficking"

Postby Tom Palven » Sat Mar 18, 2017 8:54 am

TJrandom wrote:Pffft... I thought it was the NRA that is the `deep state` - supporting over 30,000 deaths a year.


NRA actions somehow justify the CIA murdering and maiming innocent men, women, and children on a daily basis?

I'm not sure that I follow your train of thought.
If one can be taught to believe absurdities, one can commit atrocities. --Voltaire


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