Netanyahu Says He Will Compromise

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Re: Netanyahu Says He Will Compromise

Postby Frank Hoffman » Wed Feb 03, 2016 4:01 am

This is a very interesting discussion, and I'm now MORE confused than when I started.

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Re: Netanyahu Says He Will Compromise

Postby Tom Palven » Fri Feb 05, 2016 2:56 am

Frank Hoffman wrote:This is a very interesting discussion, and I'm now MORE confused than when I started.


Me, too.
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Re: Netanyahu Says He Will Compromise

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Fri Feb 05, 2016 2:58 am

I'm not confused at all.

Politicians lie.

Easy. Pay attention to what they DO, not what they SAY.

Just ...................... look.
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Re: Netanyahu Says He Will Compromise

Postby Tom Palven » Sat Feb 06, 2016 2:11 am

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:I'm not confused at all.

Politicians lie.

Easy. Pay attention to what they DO, not what they SAY.

Just ...................... look.


Please clue me in to what Netanyahu and his Likudniks have actually been doing that I've been missing.
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Re: Netanyahu Says He Will Compromise

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Sat Feb 06, 2016 2:55 am

I think you have it clearly what Netanyahu is actually doing. You just hold on to your lie that he "should be" compromising as he says. Focused on the wrong ball. You are focused on what he says, not what he does.

BUT............YOU CAN: just look...............and ................Refocus.

Good job!
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Re: Netanyahu Says He Will Compromise

Postby Tom Palven » Sun Feb 07, 2016 3:14 pm

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:I think you have it clearly what Netanyahu is actually doing.


You're right. I (and Jimmy Carter) have known for a while what the Likudniks have been doing. It doesn't take any special clairvoyance since it's been stated in their party platform for years- disenfranchise the native inhabitants of the West Bank and Gaza.
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Re: Netanyahu Says He Will Compromise

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Mon Feb 08, 2016 1:10 am

Ha, ha.........yes, how many posts in a row can we provide stating and restating the obvious?

Equally obvious: same with the PLO.

Just look.
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Re: Netanyahu Says He Will Compromise

Postby mukul11 » Wed Feb 10, 2016 9:46 am

Yeah i also read it you can see the reference link given below

http://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/.premium-1.686048

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Re: Netanyahu Says He Will Compromise

Postby Jeff_36 » Fri Feb 12, 2016 6:30 pm

Likud has an agenda for sure and everyone knows it.

The real problem is that terror threats have made the wider Israeli electorate so paranoid that the Labor Party (the #1 rivals of Likud) have to stoop to pretty low levels of pandering to whack-job interests in order to seek election. I don't know what it will take to end the occupation. I just wish someone over there would have the courage to stand up and say that enough is enough.

The settlers are a huge problem, as are the mizrahi (Jews of middle eastern extraction who always vote Likud) and the Russian immigrant population. I have great admiration for the likes of Amos Oz and Zheva Gal-On, but they are shrinking in number.

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Re: Netanyahu Says He Will Compromise

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Sat Feb 13, 2016 4:56 am

Jeff: which enough is enough?..........and then.......what would you actually "do" if you could? What would most probably follow on from whatever your solution is?

Conflict.

Never pretty. But solutions never come from general hand wringing and useless laments.
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Re: Netanyahu Says He Will Compromise

Postby Jeff_36 » Sat Feb 13, 2016 5:11 am

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:Jeff: which enough is enough?..........and then.......what would you actually "do" if you could? What would most probably follow on from whatever your solution is?

For me, a solution would entail the application of the 2003 Geneva Accords. I remain sympathetic to Zionism but it must refrain from occupations of conquered territory and illegal settlements.

Conflict.

Never pretty. But solutions never come from general hand wringing and useless laments.


They come from courage mon ami. Courage to kick out the crazy people and give real peace a chance.


The best map for peace: Image

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Re: Netanyahu Says He Will Compromise

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Sat Feb 13, 2016 5:21 am

Jeff, thanks. Thats more direct and specific than most offer. How many close to that same plan have been offered over the years right from the "formation" of Israel? Bottom line is that any of the plans would work IF both parties would follow and stick to them..... but NEITHER party does or will or will agree to it, then the finger pointing gets going.

Absent some outside force willing and able to ENFORCE the plan in vogue (ie==NO ONE) the parties are left to themselves to decide what actions best advantage themselves GIVEN what the realities are.

Ever come across two brutes fighting in the street? Do you intervene or mind your own business? Courage, or Reality??
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Re: Netanyahu Says He Will Compromise

Postby Jeff_36 » Sat Feb 13, 2016 7:13 pm

It's the only way. No one wants a one-state solution, that would be a slap on the face for both peoples.

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Re: Netanyahu Says He Will Compromise

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Sun Feb 14, 2016 2:08 am

I think that IS the very rub. Both parties actually do want a one-state solution. Isn't that what is "obvious"? And hardly a slap for both peoples. Its "not getting" their own one State that is slapping everyone around. It seems to me this notion of the rightness or need OR POSSIBILITY of a two state solution is what Netanyahu is wrestling with and motivates him to "lie" as he does. World Opinion vs the specific druthers, if not needs, of Israel as privately recognized.

I see this as just as example of the hypocrisy of everyone involved. Like years ago when Israel faced world wide condemnation for blowing up the Iraqi Nuclear Facility. Every nation on Earth would have done exactly that, faced with the same issue, if they could. JUST as the world is more diplomatically doing now with Iran. No one "now" condemns Israel for that action.

Its easy to condemn Israel when we aren't in Israel's situation. Hypocritical to do so though.
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Re: Netanyahu Says He Will Compromise

Postby Tom Palven » Mon Apr 11, 2016 9:28 am

Is it finally payback time for Netanyahu?
http://news.antiwar.com/2016/04/10/stat ... ttlements/

Maybe the Obama administration won't veto UN recognition of a Palestinian state, either, now that he's a lame duck. That would be supercalifragalisticexpealdocious.
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Re: Netanyahu Says He Will Compromise

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Mon Apr 11, 2016 6:28 pm

From the link: "Israeli officials are already inconsolably outraged at the notion, insisting that they will never allow Palestinian statehood to result from UN actions ........." /// Kinda ironic given how Israel was formed. So...after no veto and a standing UN resolution, all the Palestinians need to do is move into the designated areas. That should work.
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Re: Netanyahu Says He Will Compromise

Postby Tom Palven » Thu Aug 25, 2016 7:40 am

US govt tells Americans to leave Gaza:
http://www.newsweek.com/us-calls-americ ... ble-492974
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Re: Netanyahu Says He Will Compromise

Postby Tom Palven » Sat Aug 27, 2016 7:38 am

If one can be taught to believe absurdities, one can commit atrocities. --Voltaire

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Re: Netanyahu Says He Will Compromise

Postby Tom Palven » Tue Sep 13, 2016 1:02 am

If one can be taught to believe absurdities, one can commit atrocities. --Voltaire

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Re: Netanyahu Says He Will Compromise

Postby Tom Palven » Thu Sep 15, 2016 11:10 am

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Re: Netanyahu Says He Will Compromise

Postby Tom Palven » Mon Sep 19, 2016 12:37 pm

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Re: Netanyahu Says He Will Compromise

Postby Tom Palven » Sat Sep 24, 2016 4:47 pm

The Women's Boat to Gaza is said to be On Schedule:
http://english.astroawani.com/malaysia- ... aly-117504
If one can be taught to believe absurdities, one can commit atrocities. --Voltaire

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Re: Netanyahu Says He Will Compromise

Postby Tom Palven » Sat Oct 01, 2016 1:07 am

The Women's Boat to Gaza is set to arrive in Palestine tomorrow:
http://www.palestinechronicle.com/bds-f ... aza-video/
If one can be taught to believe absurdities, one can commit atrocities. --Voltaire

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Re: Netanyahu Says He Will Compromise

Postby Tom Palven » Sat Oct 01, 2016 5:17 am

Shimon Peres said he stopped Netanyahu's attack on Iran:
https://www.rt.com/news/361263-peres-st ... an-attack/
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Re: Netanyahu Says He Will Compromise

Postby Tom Palven » Mon Oct 03, 2016 5:43 am

Tom Palven wrote:The Women's Boat to Gaza is set to arrive in Palestine tomorrow:
http://www.palestinechronicle.com/bds-f ... aza-video/


Apparently a breakdown has caused a delay in Crete:
https://richardedmondson.net/2016/10/02 ... -aid-ship/
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Re: Netanyahu Says He Will Compromise

Postby Tom Palven » Mon Oct 10, 2016 6:59 am

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Re: Netanyahu Says He Will Compromise

Postby Tom Palven » Sun Oct 23, 2016 3:03 am

The "anti-war" Bob Dylan that I didn't know:
http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/opinio ... 27212.html
If one can be taught to believe absurdities, one can commit atrocities. --Voltaire

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Re: Netanyahu Says He Will Compromise

Postby Tom Palven » Sat Oct 29, 2016 6:41 am

More on the Likudnik blockade. My opinion expressed better than I could write it:
http://original.antiwar.com/Mike_Merrym ... y-violent/
If one can be taught to believe absurdities, one can commit atrocities. --Voltaire

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Re: Netanyahu Says He Will Compromise

Postby Tom Palven » Sat Dec 03, 2016 7:49 am

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Re: Netanyahu Says He Will Compromise

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Sat Dec 03, 2016 9:24 am

TP==you seem to be following the developments in the Israel/ME adjacent areas. Any way to summarize your concerns.......... to direct our attention???
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Re: Netanyahu Says He Will Compromise

Postby Tom Palven » Sat Dec 03, 2016 1:42 pm

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:TP==you seem to be following the developments in the Israel/ME adjacent areas. Any way to summarize your concerns.......... to direct our attention???


The Little Satan's Likud regime is a brutal apartheid theocracy, while The Great Satan is controlled by a brutal MIC like Egypt and probably Russia and many other countries, but much more powerful.

If you were Trump and believed that the Military-Industrial-Congressional Complex controlled the country, would you appoint some well-connected generals to high-ranking positions?
http://news.antiwar.com/2016/12/02/hous ... ding-bill/
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Re: Netanyahu Says He Will Compromise

Postby Tallboy » Thu Dec 08, 2016 8:40 pm

Tom Palven wrote:
bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:TP==you seem to be following the developments in the Israel/ME adjacent areas. Any way to summarize your concerns.......... to direct our attention???


The Little Satan's Likud regime is a brutal apartheid theocracy, while The Great Satan is controlled by a brutal MIC like Egypt and probably Russia and many other countries, but much more powerful.

interesting. brutal? theocracy? apartheid? any evidence for any of this? cause there's lot's of evidence against this (freedom of religion, Arab serving on the supreme court, etc.).
brutal, apartheid, theocracy pretty much describes every country in the mid-east except Israel.

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Re: Netanyahu Says He Will Compromise

Postby Tom Palven » Fri Dec 09, 2016 8:08 am

Tallboy wrote:
Tom Palven wrote:
bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:TP==you seem to be following the developments in the Israel/ME adjacent areas. Any way to summarize your concerns.......... to direct our attention???


The Little Satan's Likud regime is a brutal apartheid theocracy, while The Great Satan is controlled by a brutal MIC like Egypt and probably Russia and many other countries, but much more powerful.

interesting. brutal? theocracy? apartheid? any evidence for any of this? cause there's lot's of evidence against this (freedom of religion, Arab serving on the supreme court, etc.).
brutal, apartheid, theocracy pretty much describes every country in the mid-east except Israel.


Same old, same old.

Palestinians being treated like the Cherokees, systematically disenfranchised and driven off their native lands:
http://news.antiwar.com/2016/12/05/isra ... -outposts/

I'm not a 100% dyed-in-the-wool conspiracy nut, but it seems that The Little Satan could indeed be the tail wagging the dog.
If one can be taught to believe absurdities, one can commit atrocities. --Voltaire

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Re: Netanyahu Says He Will Compromise

Postby Tallboy » Fri Dec 09, 2016 6:28 pm

Tom Palven wrote:Same old, same old.


you said 'brutal theocracy' and 'apartheid.' i'm challenging you using these terms accurately, rather than some euphemism for something that has nothing to do with the terms you're using. Israel is not a 'brutal theocracy' in any rational definition and there's no apartheid either. there's lot's to criticize without making things up.

Tom Palven wrote:Palestinians being treated like the Cherokees, systematically disenfranchised and driven off their native lands:
http://news.antiwar.com/2016/12/05/isra ... -outposts/

you're also saying Jews are not native to, ugh, Judea. and if you want to use the Cherokee example, yes, Jews were driven off by invaders, including the Arab conquest of the 7th century, and set into diaspora. so yes, the Jews are the Cherokees in this example, trying to return to their native land of Judea like the Cherokee should return to the fertile lands of Georgia, taken away from them when White people found gold there.

the Cherokee and Jews were kicked out by invaders. the Jews were able to maintained a constant presence though, especially in Jerusalem, which has been majority Jewish since the 1800's.

Tom Palven wrote:I'm not a 100% dyed-in-the-wool conspiracy nut, but it seems that The Little Satan could indeed be the tail wagging the dog.


you're saying the settlements are driving Palestinians off their land? settlements can be dismantled after a final peace agreement, like in Gaza, where 8000 settlers and 21 settlements were removed by force:
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/08/18/world ... .html?_r=0

on the other hand, why can't the settlers just be Palestinian citizens in Palestine (W. Bank/Gaza) after final peace agreements?

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Re: Netanyahu Says He Will Compromise

Postby Tom Palven » Fri Dec 09, 2016 7:04 pm

Tallboy wrote:
Tom Palven wrote:Same old, same old.


you said 'brutal theocracy' and 'apartheid.' i'm challenging you using these terms accurately, rather than some euphemism for something that has nothing to do with the terms you're using. Israel is not a 'brutal theocracy' in any rational definition and there's no apartheid either. there's lot's to criticize without making things up.

Tom Palven wrote:Palestinians being treated like the Cherokees, systematically disenfranchised and driven off their native lands:
http://news.antiwar.com/2016/12/05/isra ... -outposts/

you're also saying Jews are not native to, ugh, Judea. and if you want to use the Cherokee example, yes, Jews were driven off by invaders, including the Arab conquest of the 7th century, and set into diaspora. so yes, the Jews are the Cherokees in this example, trying to return to their native land of Judea like the Cherokee should return to the fertile lands of Georgia, taken away from them when White people found gold there. yes, like the Jews they were kicked out by invaders.

Tom Palven wrote:I'm not a 100% dyed-in-the-wool conspiracy nut, but it seems that The Little Satan could indeed be the tail wagging the dog.


you're saying the settlements are driving Palestinians off their land? settlements can be dismantled after a final peace agreement, like in Gaza, where 8000 settlers and 21 settlements were removed by force:
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/08/18/world ... .html?_r=0

on the other hand, why can't the settlers just be Palestinian citizens in Palestine (W. Bank/Gaza) after final peace agreements?


I'll stand by what I said.

I'm confident that I wouldn't be able to influence your opinion and it's doubtful that you will offer any information that is new to me, so I'll try to find more interesting and productive things to do than arguing with you, and I'm sure that you can find something more fruitful also.

So, too-da-loo.
If one can be taught to believe absurdities, one can commit atrocities. --Voltaire

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Re: Netanyahu Says He Will Compromise

Postby Tallboy » Fri Dec 09, 2016 9:38 pm

Tom Palven wrote:
Tallboy wrote:
Tom Palven wrote:Same old, same old.


you said 'brutal theocracy' and 'apartheid.' i'm challenging you using these terms accurately, rather than some euphemism for something that has nothing to do with the terms you're using. Israel is not a 'brutal theocracy' in any rational definition and there's no apartheid either. there's lot's to criticize without making things up.

Tom Palven wrote:Palestinians being treated like the Cherokees, systematically disenfranchised and driven off their native lands:
http://news.antiwar.com/2016/12/05/isra ... -outposts/

you're also saying Jews are not native to, ugh, Judea. and if you want to use the Cherokee example, yes, Jews were driven off by invaders, including the Arab conquest of the 7th century, and set into diaspora. so yes, the Jews are the Cherokees in this example, trying to return to their native land of Judea like the Cherokee should return to the fertile lands of Georgia, taken away from them when White people found gold there. yes, like the Jews they were kicked out by invaders.

Tom Palven wrote:I'm not a 100% dyed-in-the-wool conspiracy nut, but it seems that The Little Satan could indeed be the tail wagging the dog.


you're saying the settlements are driving Palestinians off their land? settlements can be dismantled after a final peace agreement, like in Gaza, where 8000 settlers and 21 settlements were removed by force:
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/08/18/world ... .html?_r=0

on the other hand, why can't the settlers just be Palestinian citizens in Palestine (W. Bank/Gaza) after final peace agreements?


I'll stand by what I said.

I'm confident that I wouldn't be able to influence your opinion and it's doubtful that you will offer any information that is new to me, so I'll try to find more interesting and productive things to do than arguing with you, and I'm sure that you can find something more fruitful also.

So, too-da-loo.

and I will obviously stand by the arguments I presented.
But we do agree on one thing... that we would most likely not influence each others opinions!
bye-bye!

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Re: Netanyahu Says He Will Compromise

Postby Tom Palven » Sat Dec 24, 2016 9:29 am

Tom Palven wrote:Is it finally payback time for Netanyahu?
http://news.antiwar.com/2016/04/10/stat ... ttlements/

Maybe the Obama administration won't veto UN recognition of a Palestinian state, either, now that he's a lame duck. That would be supercalifragalisticexpealdocious.



Hooray, but probably too little too late:
http://news.antiwar.com/2016/12/23/neta ... l-with-un/
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Re: Netanyahu Says He Will Compromise

Postby Tom Palven » Tue Dec 27, 2016 10:19 am

Netanyahu thinks that the plot thickens, but it's beside the point.
http://news.antiwar.com/2016/12/26/isra ... d-un-vote/
If one can be taught to believe absurdities, one can commit atrocities. --Voltaire

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Re: Netanyahu Says He Will Compromise

Postby Matthew Ellard » Tue Dec 27, 2016 10:05 pm

Tom Palven wrote:Netanyahu thinks that the plot thickens, but it's beside the point.
http://news.antiwar.com/2016/12/26/isra ... d-un-vote/


It would seem to be that Netanyahu is the person playing, short term, self serving political games. The Israeli government would not pick long term fights with the Democrats, simply because the Democrats will return to government at some point. That's how real diplomacy works.

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Re: Netanyahu Says He Will Compromise

Postby Tom Palven » Thu Dec 29, 2016 4:04 am

Matthew Ellard wrote:
Tom Palven wrote:Netanyahu thinks that the plot thickens, but it's beside the point.
http://news.antiwar.com/2016/12/26/isra ... d-un-vote/


It would seem to be that Netanyahu is the person playing, short term, self serving political games. The Israeli government would not pick long term fights with the Democrats, simply because the Democrats will return to government at some point. That's how real diplomacy works.


I can't even see what the short-term gains are in alienating the Democrats, even if he does have Trump and the neoconservatives in his pocket.

Netanyahu has more problems than just the US Democrats, though.

The permanent members of the UN Security Council in alphabetical order are:

China
England
France
Russia
US

The Nonpermanent members are:

Angola
Egypt
Japan
Malaysia
New Zealand
Senegal
Spain
Ukraine
Uruguay
Venezuela

Every member except the US, which abstained, voted to ask Israel to stop settlement activity.

This, as we can see, wasn't just Arab neighbors asking Israel to cease and desist. If the vote went to all 193 m3mbers almost every country in the world would agree on this, with perhaps one or two exceptions including Israel.

It may be interesting to watch how Obama, Trump, and Netanyahu toss this issue around for the next three weeks.
If one can be taught to believe absurdities, one can commit atrocities. --Voltaire


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