MagneGas, Anyone?

Step right up for 3-card Monte...
Matthew Ellard
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Re: MagneGas, Anyone?

Postby Matthew Ellard » Sat Aug 27, 2016 1:57 am

Pepijn van Erp wrote:More Santilli Shenanigans


OK. I started reading your exchange and realised it was serious. They are making incredibly stupid mistakes and leaving you with much ammunition. I'll read it again with care on Monday at work. If I can think of anyway to help I will let you know.

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Re: MagneGas, Anyone?

Postby Gord » Sat Aug 27, 2016 6:26 am

Poodle wrote:
scrmbldggs wrote:
Gord wrote:Absolutely, everybody! Whatever you want, I can nominate you for exactly that.

[...]

I, Gord, being of sound [noisy] mind, hereby and with (or without) full knowledge and authority, do nominate unconditionally and/or in perpetuity Poodle for the award/position/crime of having almost reached his expiration date, herein dated the 3105th day of Slonkk in the year '69 and witnessed by Huey, Dewey, Louie, Homer, Lisa, the NSA, and the Pope.

I dedicate this nomination to my parents, Ayn Rand and God.

Signed,
Gord Something



Clangers! 8-)

Oh bugger! I totally missed this. Brought tears to my eyes, it did.

Yeah but didja win?
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Re: MagneGas, Anyone?

Postby Poodle » Sat Aug 27, 2016 11:38 am

Gord wrote:
Poodle wrote:
scrmbldggs wrote:
Gord wrote:Absolutely, everybody! Whatever you want, I can nominate you for exactly that.

[...]

I, Gord, being of sound [noisy] mind, hereby and with (or without) full knowledge and authority, do nominate unconditionally and/or in perpetuity Poodle for the award/position/crime of having almost reached his expiration date, herein dated the 3105th day of Slonkk in the year '69 and witnessed by Huey, Dewey, Louie, Homer, Lisa, the NSA, and the Pope.

I dedicate this nomination to my parents, Ayn Rand and God.

Signed,
Gord Something



Clangers! 8-)

Oh bugger! I totally missed this. Brought tears to my eyes, it did.

Yeah but didja win?


Of course.

Maybe.

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Re: MagneGas, Anyone?

Postby Gord » Sun Aug 28, 2016 2:32 am

Poodle wrote:
Gord wrote:
Poodle wrote:
scrmbldggs wrote:
Gord wrote:Absolutely, everybody! Whatever you want, I can nominate you for exactly that.

[...]

I, Gord, being of sound [noisy] mind, hereby and with (or without) full knowledge and authority, do nominate unconditionally and/or in perpetuity Poodle for the award/position/crime of having almost reached his expiration date, herein dated the 3105th day of Slonkk in the year '69 and witnessed by Huey, Dewey, Louie, Homer, Lisa, the NSA, and the Pope.

I dedicate this nomination to my parents, Ayn Rand and God.

Signed,
Gord Something



Clangers! 8-)

Oh bugger! I totally missed this. Brought tears to my eyes, it did.

Yeah but didja win?

Of course.

Maybe.

Accepting your award is simple. First, go to this website and print out the certificate: http://www.hbo.com/custom-assets/social ... ATE_v2.jpg

Next, cross out ""Elf-Spotting" and "Elf Spotting" and write in the name of the award/position/crime you believe yourself to have won.

Third: [??]

Fourth: Profit.
"Knowledge grows through infinite timelessness" -- the random fictional Deepak Chopra quote site
"You are also taking my words out of context." -- Justin
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#ANDAMOVIE

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Re: MagneGas, Anyone?

Postby loupgarous » Sat Sep 17, 2016 7:04 pm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kBVq5N4sJ-Q shows what happened with Magnegas at their own plant. One of their own employees died.
http://www.bizjournals.com/tampabay/blog/morning-edition/2015/04/agnegas-explosion-that-killed-one-worker-not-its.html shows it wasn't their first explosion at that plant.
http://seekingalpha.com/news/2435396-magnegas-determining-cause-of-deadly-accident shows that - according to MagneGas themselves - "At this time, we can report that the accident occurred during the tank filling process," which is much less provocation than MagneGas themselves needed to make a cylinder of acetylene go off: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XIdopC0GJ0o
http://www.tampabay.com/news/publicsafety/a-year-later-cause-of-fatal-tarpon-springs-explosion-remains-a-mystery/2271043 shows no one found out what made that explosion happen, a year afterward.

Of course, welding gases are like that - acetylene's had its own share of deadly explosions, more before it became clear you had to put acetone in a porous matrix in every cylinder of acetylene to place it in solution and make it stable enough to handle in cylinders.

The fact that MagneGas had to hire former special operations troops to shoot a hole in a cylinder of acetylene to make it blow up https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XIdopC0GJ0o shows acetylene is pretty safe to handle compared to a gas that blew up, killing a MagneGas employee https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kBVq5N4sJ-Q during routine handling at the factory http://seekingalpha.com/news/2435396-magnegas-determining-cause-of-deadly-accident for reasons no one can really say after a year's investigation http://www.tampabay.com/news/publicsafety/a-year-later-cause-of-fatal-tarpon-springs-explosion-remains-a-mystery/2271043.

But supposedly, the magnecular bonds in MagneGas are a known quantity. No less than an authority than Magnegas' inventor, in his self-published scientific journals and a journal called The American Journal of Modern Physics (which Peter Woit's "Not Even Wrong" blog outed http://www.math.columbia.edu/~woit/wordpress/?p=5607 as charging between $70-$120 to publish papers - before their "submissions guidelines" vanished behind a password, they listed their "manuscript processing fee" as $380 - and as having such abysmal peer review that whole walls of text in the articles they take money to publish were plagiarized from prominent work by other researchers) says so.

So we're supposed to back off and not wonder what about Magnegas made them go to another formulation, "Magnegas 2."

Globalreach and other online pro-Magnegas posters chose to defame me to make my comments here somehow less relevant to MagneGas's safety. It's a shame - for them - they can't go after the working press and the great mass of the scientific community who publish in honestly peer-reviewed journals in the same way.

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Re: MagneGas, Anyone?

Postby loupgarous » Sat Sep 17, 2016 9:24 pm

Bullfighter wrote:The comment section of that video turned up a couple interesting things:

Environman:
"If you are looking to debunk Santilli as a “hoaxer” (and don’t care to look through the telescope yourself) than the easiest way to do would be if you could prove his new magnetically bonded species of fuel, known as MagneGas, is just a conventional mixture of hydrogen and oxygen (as claimed by unemployed Wikipedians for years) – meaning it wouldn’t have any crazy properties like burning 4,000 degree F higher than acetylene much less the ability to release a 9-12% surplus of 02 in the emissions. I tried to debunk him myself years ago and failed – which is why I now support him.The company, Ticker: MNGA, has been around for about 8 years now and is listed on the NASDAQ. "


Yes, I was the "unemployed Wikipedian" he's barking about. Metastatic cancer's contracted my employment prospects considerably. But I've gotten well enough since Environman (and either him or someone else posting in http://wikipediocracy.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=7952&p=193195#p193195 as "MartyMcFly") zinged me to update the saga of Santilli v. wikipedians.

The wikipediocracy.com thing came up as "MartyMcFly" decided to try and canvass votes against a Articles for Deletion nomination of the wikipedia article on Ruggero Santill for lack of notability. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Ruggero_Santilli_(2nd_nomination)

My reasoning was simple: even as a fringe scientist, Santilli's not very notable - not as notable as my fellow Gulf Coast resident the late Joseph Westley Newman, who claimed for over a decade to have made a DC motor which made more work than the equivalent energy placed into its windings (at one point Newman claimed some of the copper in the windings was being converted into energy directly, kind of, sort of, like Rossi's "fusion" machine).

Newman, unlike Santilli, stood by his invention, didn't go around slanging the reputations of his detractors. He filed for a US Patent, was denied one, then went through court the good old fashioned way (before the legendary Federal circuit court judge Thomas Penfield Jackson of Microsoft antitrust case fame), who had the US National Bureau of Standards test Newman's motor. Well, the NBS couldn't get it to violate the first and second Laws of Thermodynamics, so Judge Jackson found against Newman, and apart from trying to get that patent by private bills in Congress, Newman rested on honest belief in his invention.

Newman was the genuine notable fringe scientist, from head to toe. He didn't do character assassination against Judge Jackson or anyone else who disagreed with him, and everything he did was above board and according to Hoyle.

My fellow wikipedians, employed and not, couldn't form a consensus on whether Santilli's notable enough to get his own wikipedia article, so he's "grandfathered" in.

But interestingly, while opposition to his Magnecular bond theory is so common among peer reviewers for reputable physics journals that Santilli says Steven Weinberg and other "Jewish physicists" are conspiring against him, the Santilli people can't even allow discussion about his fame as a fringe scientist to occur without canvassing for votes against it, and doing so off-wikipedia, in violation of wikipedia guidelines. The only "win" they got is that opinion in that discussion was divided between those of us who found Santilli notable as a fringe scientist, and those of us who didn't think he was even that notable.

They're really wasting their time running MY name through the mud, and reposting links to Jeffrey Lewis jumping on me in "Arms Control Wonk" for daring to question his stance on EMP (http://www.armscontrolwonk.com/archive/ ... -nonsense/ in which he comes across - even to his friends in the comment space - as being the "before" guy in Snickers TV ads https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WhfntLl6xx0).

I own up to being stupid enough to cite a Futureweapons episode in a discussion with a man who says he wasn't feeling well before devoting an entire blog post to demolishing my reputation. Tough {!#%@}, guy. I felt worse than you did when I dared to disagree with you in Foreign Policy. I have cancer.

Anyway, I'm on the same shitlist as Steven Weinberg, while Jeffrey Lewis and the Santillis have to take turns lambasting me.

That actually works for me.

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Re: MagneGas, Anyone?

Postby scrmbldggs » Sat Sep 17, 2016 10:52 pm

loupgarous wrote:Metastatic cancer's contracted my employment prospects considerably. But I've gotten well enough since...


Sorry to hear about the difficulties but glad there also is improvement. And I hope there'll be even more of that! :-D


The attempts to trash people for rather innocent and normal human flaws and failings along the way seem to be an activity they (who seem to have enough dirt piled up to block the sun and still continue touting their 'magic supergas', hilariously so even after Junior admitted on record it was merely a syngas before the Georgia State commission - isodual, naturally, ignored that little inconvenient fact, didn't want to hear or tell about it and, IIRC, avoided any meaningful responses to questions) engage in heavily and apparently also encourage their minions to imitate/execute that unsavory practice (unless there are no separate entities roaming the webz, sifting for and attacking inquiries and findings).

Reminds me of ye olde legal aphorism, "If you have the facts on your side, pound the facts. If you have the law on your side, pound the law. If you have neither on your side, pound the table."

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Re: MagneGas, Anyone?

Postby loupgarous » Mon Sep 19, 2016 10:38 pm

You just have to wonder how the Federal Trade Commission and the Consumer Product Safety Commission have failed to weigh on on MagneGas after their product killed a guy and dramatically redecorated their bottle-filling facility. In documentation quoted here, people like GlobalReach who speak for MagneGas claim that a 33% carbon monoxide mix gas is safe for indoor heating, which not even their own MSDS endorses as safe handling for MagneGas.

Not to mention the "magnecule" claim having no foundation at all in peer-reviewed, reputable mainstream scientific journals, so that it's deceptive advertising (at least).

The activities of Thunder Energies, which is claiming unlikely observation with a counter-intuitive optical setup, and selling merchandise based on those claims are even more dodgy, and other companies have been nailed hard for misrepresenting merchandise to customers before. I read their ad copy and think Wilhelm Reich's "Orgone therapy," which managed to kill a few cancer patients before FDA clamped down hard on them.

Thanks for the good wishes, I'm finally beating the big C.

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Re: MagneGas, Anyone?

Postby Pepijn van Erp » Wed Nov 02, 2016 3:20 pm

Yesterday I received a summons: Santilli is suing me for defamation in a Circuit Court in Florida. More on this in http://www.pepijnvanerp.nl/2016/11/sued ... -santilli/

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Re: MagneGas, Anyone?

Postby scrmbldggs » Wed Nov 02, 2016 3:39 pm

Wow! Let's just hope that their agreement with you amounts to this:

"And it is about time this comes to an end."

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Re: MagneGas, Anyone?

Postby Gord » Wed Nov 02, 2016 7:18 pm

Good grief. I wonder if Santilli is closely related to Trump?
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Re: MagneGas, Anyone?

Postby scrmbldggs » Wed Nov 02, 2016 8:43 pm

:hmm: He seems too sincere, smart, kind, good-looking and successful for that...




I mean, just take a look at this:
Spoiler:

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Re: MagneGas, Anyone?

Postby Gord » Wed Nov 02, 2016 11:42 pm

Yeah but then he got the hair implants and married Ivanka.
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Re: MagneGas, Anyone?

Postby Matthew Ellard » Wed Nov 02, 2016 11:55 pm

Pepijn van Erp wrote:Yesterday I received a summons: Santilli is suing me for defamation in a Circuit Court in Florida. More on this in http://www.pepijnvanerp.nl/2016/11/sued ... -santilli/


I read your web page. It does seem that the summons was an intimidation threat with little intention to take the matter to court. Although his case solicitor has not responded to your later queries, it does seem that you should take the matter seriously.

Sadly, that means you can't discuss your alternative legal strategy options, in an open public forum.

If you were rich and had time on your hands you could counter his claim with evidence your comments were fair and legal and simultaneously argue he is a vexatious litigator. Send those statements of your position to his case solicitor first and see what happens. However, in the legal would you should never "bluff". If you say you intend to respond in a particular way, then you have to be prepared to go the "full hog" in court.

I can't remember where you live. Is there any opportunity to seek legal assistance from a charity or public interest organisation in free speech?

I think Santilli is a bull-shit artist and he would run rather than face a court action that may expose his current and future scams, as court cases are uncontrollable. Therefore whatever you do, you need to get proper and good quality legal advice.

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Re: MagneGas, Anyone?

Postby Pepijn van Erp » Thu Nov 03, 2016 8:19 am

Matthew Ellard wrote: Therefore whatever you do, you need to get proper and good quality legal advice.


I'm working on that, don't worry 8-)

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Re: MagneGas, Anyone?

Postby loupgarous » Fri Nov 04, 2016 7:26 pm

If you retain counsel, you might draw his attention to section 57.105 of the Florida Statutes (1997), as amended in 1999, which provides the authority for courts to sanction litigants and attorneys for filing frivolous lawsuits.
(http://via.library.depaul.edu/cgi/viewc ... law-review and http://myfloridalegal.com/alerts.nsf/Pr ... E20068C002).

and section 68.093, "Florida Vexatious Litigant Law," — http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes/ind ... 8.093.html

I'm not saying Santilli or his counsel are vexatious litigants under that law, or that they are guilty of violating the other statutes.

However, Santilli is reported to have filed numerous pro se lawsuits by a local newspaper http://www.sptimes.com/2007/05/09/news_ ... ream.shtml, and has boasted online of suing Cornell University for not accepting his scientific papers as "preprints" in their arXiv online database http://www.zpenergy.com/modules.php?nam ... e&sid=2524", so his record of such litigation may be a starting place for your counsel to look.

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Re: MagneGas, Anyone?

Postby Major Malfunction » Tue Nov 08, 2016 7:19 am

He's not a fringe scientist, he's a very naughty boy.
This being was produced using the same process as other beings, and therefore, may contain traces of nuts.

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Re: MagneGas, Anyone?

Postby isodual » Wed Nov 16, 2016 7:17 am

Look at you people?.. seriously… left alone for years and you’re still here ranting and raving amongst yourselves about Dr.… wait.. what’s his name again.? Why all the interest still of someone who apparently isn’t even notable?

Oh and welcome back to the conversation Loupgarous!

Sorry to hear that your two recent attempts to get Dr. Santilli’s smear piece on Wikipedia deleted both failed.

Remember the iocane powder Battle of Wits scene from the movie "Princess Bride"??

Yep… lol.. its like that - OR is it? Wahaha.

Ps - Never get in a land war in Asia.. particularly after you just watched an episode of Future Weapons.. =).

Image
Google/Wikipedia is NOT a scientific instrument.
Update 11/15/16: The “miraculous” properties of MagneGas have now all checked out as real & a mass outbreak of selective amnesia has swept across the inhabitants of this board.


“If Santilli could produce a safe gas that burnt hotter than the hottest chemical flame Mankind has ever known, I'd have his baby.” - Major Malfunction 2013

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Re: MagneGas, Anyone?

Postby Gord » Wed Nov 16, 2016 12:22 pm

isodual wrote:Look at you people?.. seriously… left alone for years and you’re still here ranting and raving amongst yourselves about Dr.… wait.. what’s his name again.? Why all the interest still of someone who apparently isn’t even notable?

Because he's a nutbar who keeps annoying people.
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Re: MagneGas, Anyone?

Postby Major Malfunction » Wed Nov 16, 2016 12:57 pm

Stock prices are one third of what they were at the beginning of the year. They just keep going down down down.
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Re: MagneGas, Anyone?

Postby Gord » Wed Nov 16, 2016 1:04 pm

Major Malfunction wrote:Stock prices are one third of what they were at the beginning of the year. They just keep going down down down.

I blame Trump. :P
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Re: MagneGas, Anyone?

Postby scrmbldggs » Wed Nov 16, 2016 3:39 pm

Uh oh, isodual reappeared. Something is a-brewing and it doesn't smell good. What did they blow up or step into now?

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Re: MagneGas, Anyone?

Postby Matthew Ellard » Thu Nov 17, 2016 12:18 am

isodual AKA Francesco Fucilla. wrote:Look at you people?..
Yep. Aren't we just fun and lovely :D

isodual AKA Francesco Fucilla. wrote:Why all the interest still of someone who apparently isn’t even notable?
Santilli's clumsiness, slips ups and hilarious use of fake experts is like a great old episode of Laurel & Hardy. You can get a good laugh every time you come back to watch it again. :lol:


Francesco Fucilla, character disturbed?
https://duckforbes.wordpress.com/2012/0 ... disturbed/

FFucilla.jpg
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Re: MagneGas, Anyone?

Postby Major Malfunction » Thu Nov 17, 2016 1:27 am

Lost 17% overnight.

Looking at the 10 year graph, it seems like scrutiny devalues the stock.

But every now and then, quite regularly, they claim to have made miracle breakthroughs, prices go up, and shortly back down. No doubt when there's no follow through.

Matt has already covered this. There's no doubt that they're manipulating stock prices with bogus media releases.

People are stupid. Look at Whisson's Windmill, thorium cars, solar roadways, self-filling water bottle, Waterseer, and snake oil, for just a few examples.

Isodual claims some miracle breakthrough that redefines the known laws of physics has been made the other day, but provides no evidence...

This is how they've been making their money. Stock manipulation. Wait till price goes down, make an outrageous claim, idiots buy it, and they sell. They've been idling like this for a few years.
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Re: MagneGas, Anyone?

Postby Gord » Thu Nov 17, 2016 1:28 am

Matthew Ellard wrote:Francesco Fucilla, character disturbed?
https://duckforbes.wordpress.com/2012/0 ... disturbed/

:laff:

Wait, who the {!#%@} was that again?
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Re: MagneGas, Anyone?

Postby loupgarous » Thu Nov 17, 2016 12:23 pm

isodual wrote:Look at you people?.. seriously… left alone for years and you’re still here ranting and raving amongst yourselves about Dr.… wait.. what’s his name again.? Why all the interest still of someone who apparently isn’t even notable?

Oh and welcome back to the conversation Loupgarous!

Sorry to hear that your two recent attempts to get Dr. Santilli’s smear piece on Wikipedia deleted both failed.

Remember the iocane powder Battle of Wits scene from the movie "Princess Bride"??

Yep… lol.. its like that - OR is it? Wahaha.

Ps - Never get in a land war in Asia.. particularly after you just watched an episode of Future Weapons.. =).


I guess we're here because it's cheaper than filing BS lawsuits and publishing in the vanity press of (stretching a point) scientific publication.

I don't see Steven Weinberg here defending his reputation from you, because he's actually got a scientific reputation he didn't need to pay "manuscript processing fees" or invent his own vanity press "journals" to maintain. Steven Hawking and Peter Higgs didn't even have to have bar mitzvahs to get their papers peer reviewed. The Nobel people even agreed they deserved the gold medal and huge check for their scientific insights.

By the way, how's the Nobel Prize vote canvass coming along? Be honest - you thought that since Al Gore got one, and he spouts BS, you were a natural, right?


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