Moderates got nuthin

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Lausten
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Moderates got nuthin

Postby Lausten » Sat Aug 01, 2015 10:57 pm

This discussion is for all those people who say the "new atheists" don't address the liberals and moderates. Martin Marty is highly respected theologian and as moderate as they get. His arguments are about as close as you can get to fundamentalism.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=loL08-krM3Y
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Lausten
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Re: Moderates got nuthin

Postby Lausten » Mon Aug 10, 2015 1:24 am

Mmm, nice post Lausten.
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Re: Moderates got nuthin

Postby Lausten » Mon Aug 10, 2015 1:24 am

I know, right?
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Re: Moderates got nuthin

Postby Lausten » Mon Aug 10, 2015 1:34 am

It was sounding like the usual anti-science points at first, but Harris replied patiently, saying Stalin didn't base his ideology on science, then Beatty says something about science having "fantastic theories", with more of a "fantasy" meaning to it. Harris responds that the world is not dependent on us finding a non-weird version of quantum physics, no one is killing anyone over string theory being right or not, but reason is making great strides in bringing people together and is just what is needed to move us toward a world community. Martin Marty is nothing less than afraid of this idea, claiming we need the faith of Martin Luther King and alluding to something about how this idea of world community not working out in the past. I have no idea what he is talking about.
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Re: Moderates got nuthin

Postby Monster » Mon Aug 10, 2015 8:09 am

Lausten wrote:This discussion is for all those people who say the "new atheists" don't address the liberals and moderates. Martin Marty is highly respected theologian and as moderate as they get. His arguments are about as close as you can get to fundamentalism.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=loL08-krM3Y

I'm listening to this while I type this. Martin Marty said something that I caught, which shows the trouble with debating religion. There are around 6 billion theistic people in the world. That means there are roughly 6 billion different versions of religion. So, Harris is arguing against a single one of those, and Marty says the equivalent of "I don't believe that." I'm referring specifically to Marty complaining about Harris arguing against an ancient version of a religion. Marty says that people are new today and that it's not static. (This was around 29:00.) Obviously, that goes against the vast number of other religious people who DO think that religion is static and that people must maintain the same religious stances for eternity.
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Re: Moderates got nuthin

Postby scrmbldggs » Mon Aug 10, 2015 3:16 pm

Making one for everyone. That confirms it isn't true but, "Hey, I want it anyway".

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Re: Moderates got nuthin

Postby Lausten » Mon Aug 10, 2015 5:45 pm

Monster wrote:So, Harris is arguing against a single one of those, and Marty says the equivalent of "I don't believe that." I'm referring specifically to Marty complaining about Harris arguing against an ancient version of a religion. Marty says that people are new today and that it's not static.

Classic Catch-22 of the liberal theologian. Don't allow any examples of anything religion has ever done that has had a bad result. Dismiss all of them as no longer applicable or only applicable to some extreme minority. Then make a general claim about everything being better for your sub-group or time.

Sad thing is, this is the very first item Sam covers. He says we need to stop treating religion as special, allowing a different standard of evidence for it. Around 10 minutes talks about how ideas drive actions, this is a common Harris theme. Then after the other 2 do their shtick and he gets his first response he points out how we "recoil from cruelty quite naturally". Sam can find all sorts of reason to dump religion and the others have a terrible time justifying it.
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