Two promising new books on the current political situation

Read any good books lately?
Matthew Ellard
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Re: Two promising new books on the current political situation

Post by Matthew Ellard » Wed Jan 03, 2018 9:20 pm

Matthew Ellard wrote: Who do you think Australia should have informed
1) The KGB
2) Donald Trump's team.
3) The FBI and CIA.
Tom Palven wrote:Matt, You gave your definition of "deep state" and I ................
As I said, you are not allowed to answer this question. :lol:

Tom Palven wrote:You came back with irrelevant BS and the contention that the wiki article was "scripted in Moscow,"
No I said your pro Russian talking points are scripted in Moscow. :D

It's being lovely reading your "love for wikileaks" but as you now know, The Russians were pushing the stolen Democrat emails to Trump two months before releasing them using Wikileaks.

Gosh Tom, what do you think that means about who downloaded them? (Note : Tom isn't allowed to answer this question either ) :lol:

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Re: Two promising new books on the current political situation

Post by Matthew Ellard » Wed Jan 03, 2018 9:28 pm

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote: Matt rarely backs up like that, so as its of interest to me,
Not one of you read the article.

Tom has been pushing wikileaks and anti-FBI and anti-CIA talk points on behalf of Russia. Tom claims there is a hidden deep state. It is now known that Russia was pushing the same stolen democratic emails two months before Wikileaks released them. The Australian intelligence services informed the FBI and CIA and Australia's allies.

Is Tom an elected official of the USA? No. Is Tom pushing Russian talk points. Yes.


Let's ask Tom.

Hey Tom? How do you feel about promoting the Russian SVR's anti USA campaign using its puppet, wikileaks.

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Re: Two promising new books on the current political situation

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Wed Jan 03, 2018 9:32 pm

Why should I read the article when I wasn't addressing that issue? I did address the definition and use of the term Deep State.

don't argue with me............unless you want to state specifically how anything in the article would have added to or subtracted from what I posted.
Real Name: bobbo the existential pragmatic evangelical anti-theist and Class Warrior.
Asking: What is the most good for the most people?
Sample Issue: Should the Feds provide all babies with free diapers?

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Re: Two promising new books on the current political situation

Post by Matthew Ellard » Wed Jan 03, 2018 9:44 pm

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:Why should I read the article when I wasn't addressing that issue? I did address the definition and use of the term Deep State.

Do you mean shadowy, non-elected, people pushing an agenda that suits them? Hmmmmmm........let me think whose doing that?
Putin.jpg


Meanwhile, you can initiate any legal action under a variety of USA anti-trust and similar laws to stop corruption, agency theory, bribery, duopoly fixing and so on in open court.......that comes under "Deep State".
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Re: Two promising new books on the current political situation

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Wed Jan 03, 2018 9:49 pm

don't can me...............do, or do not.
Real Name: bobbo the existential pragmatic evangelical anti-theist and Class Warrior.
Asking: What is the most good for the most people?
Sample Issue: Should the Feds provide all babies with free diapers?

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Re: Two promising new books on the current political situation

Post by Tom Palven » Wed Jan 03, 2018 11:39 pm

Matthew Ellard wrote:
bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:Why should I read the article when I wasn't addressing that issue? I did address the definition and use of the term Deep State.

Do you mean shadowy, non-elected, people pushing an agenda that suits them? Hmmmmmm........let me think whose doing that?
Putin.jpg

Meanwhile, you can initiate any legal action under a variety of USA anti-trust and similar laws to stop corruption, agency theory, bribery, duopoly fixing and so on in open court.......that comes under "Deep State".



Irrelevant hogwash.

You could probably could have initiated those actions in Nazi Germany, for what it was worth.
If one can be taught to believe absurdities, one can commit atrocities. --Voltaire

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Re: Two promising new books on the current political situation

Post by Matthew Ellard » Thu Jan 04, 2018 4:46 am

Tom Palven wrote: Irrelevant hogwash.
Bull-shit

Firstly, you now know the Russians downloaded the Democrat emails and offered them to Trump's team two months before Russia used Wikileaks to release them. Australia found out and informed the FBI, CIA and it allies. When I asked you who Australia should have informed, if not the CIA or FBI, you were not allowed to answer the question. You do as you are told. :lol:

Secondly, I clearly listed all the actual legislated crimes that already exist. You continued to claim a magical "Deep state" even though I gave you examples of FBI and CIA personnel who were charged under existing legislation. You couldn't even attempt to make a counter argument as to what your deep state crimes are.

Thirdly, you complain that non-elected people run the deep state, clandestinely, yet here you are, a civilian, promoting Russian agitprop talk points, knowing what you say is not true. Wikileaks is controlled by Moscow Central. Get over it. :lol:

Tom Palven wrote:You could probably could have initiated those actions in Nazi Germany, for what it was worth.
No you could not have. I will add basic history to the list of things you know nothing about.

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Re: Two promising new books on the current political situation

Post by Tom Palven » Thu Jan 04, 2018 9:25 am

Matthew Ellard wrote:
Tom Palven wrote: Irrelevant hogwash.
Bull-shit

Firstly, you now know the Russians downloaded the Democrat emails and offered them to Trump's team two months before Russia used Wikileaks to release them. Australia found out and informed the FBI, CIA and it allies. When I asked you who Australia should have informed, if not the CIA or FBI, you were not allowed to answer the question. You do as you are told. :lol:

Secondly, I clearly listed all the actual legislated crimes that already exist. You continued to claim a magical "Deep state" even though I gave you examples of FBI and CIA personnel who were charged under existing legislation. You couldn't even attempt to make a counter argument as to what your deep state crimes are.


There's nothing remotely magical about a deep state as Wikipedia defines it, only by the definition that you and your cat invented.

State within a state aka deep state, Wikipedia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_within_a_state
If one can be taught to believe absurdities, one can commit atrocities. --Voltaire

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Re: Two promising new books on the current political situation

Post by Matthew Ellard » Thu Jan 04, 2018 9:19 pm

Tom Palven wrote:There's nothing remotely magical about a deep state as Wikipedia defines it, only by the definition that you and your cat invented.
You are confused again. I didn't define deep state. I said deep state is the current buzz word for the existing set of crimes that are already legislated and prosecuted. I then listed the crimes. You then got more confused.

Sooooooo.........Tom. I ask you again. According to you, who should have Australia informed, that the Russians were giving Trump's team, the stolen Democrat emails, that the Russian GRU downloaded, two months before the Russians used Wikileaks to distribute them.

1) The KGB
2) Donald Trump's team
3) The FBI and CIA.
4) Santa Claus


I know you are not allowed to answer this, but be brave a give it a go. :lol:

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Re: Two promising new books on the current political situation

Post by Tom Palven » Thu Jan 04, 2018 10:18 pm

Matthew Ellard wrote:
Tom Palven wrote:There's nothing remotely magical about a deep state as Wikipedia defines it, only by the definition that you and your cat invented.
You are confused again. I said deep state is the current buzz word for the existing set of crimes that are already legislated and prosecuted. .


That's what you and your cat say. Wikipedia says otherwise:
https://dvd.netflix.com/Movie/A-Dogs-Pu ... _acomplete
If one can be taught to believe absurdities, one can commit atrocities. --Voltaire

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Re: Two promising new books on the current political situation

Post by Matthew Ellard » Thu Jan 04, 2018 10:33 pm

Tom Tom Tom, Are you having problems reading the question?

The Australians had hard evidence the Russians were giving Trump's team the emails the Russian GRU stole from the Democrats. I know you love Trump but try answer the question.

Who do you think the Australians should have informed?
1) The KGB
2) Donald Trump's team
3) The FBI and CIA.
4) Santa Claus

If you don't mind the Russians interfering in USA elections, then just say so.
:lol:

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Re: Two promising new books on the current political situation

Post by Tom Palven » Fri Jan 05, 2018 2:37 am

Simple repetitive avoidance of the question, Matt. Mere filibustering for who knows what reason,
If one can be taught to believe absurdities, one can commit atrocities. --Voltaire

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Re: Two promising new books on the current political situation

Post by Matthew Ellard » Fri Jan 05, 2018 2:52 am

Tom Palven wrote:Simple repetitive avoidance of the question, Matt. Mere filibustering for who knows what reason,


Gee gosh Tom. So you asked me five times to answer your question about Operation Ajax despite the fact I had already answered it. However you can't answer a simple question about how your own country is meant to throw out Russian spies interfering in the USA election.

You must really love Donald Trump (or stick to talking points from your Moscow crib sheet) .
:D

Simply ask your лидер группы to respond on your behalf next time. :lol:

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Re: Two promising new books on the current political situation

Post by Tom Palven » Fri Jan 05, 2018 10:01 am

Matthew Ellard wrote:
Tom Palven wrote:Simple repetitive avoidance of the question, Matt. Mere filibustering for who knows what reason,


[i]Gee gosh Tom...You must really love Donald Trump (or stick to talking points from your Moscow crib sheet) . :D


I still can't understand why you've adopted the old W. C. Fields stategy Matt:
"If you can't dazzle them with brilliance, baffle them with bullsh-t."

dis·in·for·ma·tion
1.false information that is intended to mislead, especially propaganda issued by a government organization to a rival power or the media.

The Aussie power-elite seem as good with disinformation as that of the US. Is it just an appendage of the US power-elite?
If one can be taught to believe absurdities, one can commit atrocities. --Voltaire

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Re: Two promising new books on the current political situation

Post by Matthew Ellard » Sat Jan 06, 2018 12:18 am

Tom Palven wrote:I still can't understand why you've adopted the old W. C. Fields stategy Matt:

That's because you don't think for yourself. You follow scripts,

You come to our forum to post your Russian scripted propaganda.
"CIA is bad"
"FBI is bad"
"Wikileaks is good"
"Deep state is bad"
"Only elected official ( Trump) is good"

However when I ask you one question about your bull-shit propaganda, you refuse to answer one question. So let's try again.


The Australians had hard evidence the Russians stole the Democrats emails and were shopping them to candidate Trump in May 2016, two months before the Russians released the same emails on Wikileaks.

Who do you think the Australians should have contacted
1) The KGB
2) Donald Trump's team
3) The USA's CIA and FBI


Why are you so scared of answering this simple question? :lol:

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Re: Two promising new books on the current political situation

Post by Matthew Ellard » Sat Jan 06, 2018 12:29 am

Tom Palven wrote:The Aussie power-elite seem as good with disinformation as that of the US. Is it just an appendage of the US power-elite?
You're an idiot. I twice wrote that Australia informed the USA and it's allies. It's the Germans that listen and look at Russian communications. The BND and ASIS work together on money laundering. It's the Brits who have the better relationship with the USA. We didn't tell the Yanks until just before Wikileaks released the emails in case the news went straight back to Moscow.

....and here you are, still posting Russian scripted propaganda.
:lol:

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Re: Two promising new books on the current political situation

Post by Tom Palven » Sat Jan 06, 2018 3:16 am

Matthew Ellard wrote:
Tom Palven wrote:The Aussie power-elite seem as good with disinformation as that of the US. Is it just an appendage of the US power-elite?
You're an idiot. I twice wrote that Australia informed the USA and it's allies. It's the Germans that listen and look at Russian communications. The BND and ASIS work together on money laundering. It's the Brits who have the better relationship with the USA. We didn't tell the Yanks until just before Wikileaks released the emails in case the news went straight back to Moscow.

....and here you are, still posting Russian scripted propaganda.
:lol:


I believe you said you are a lawyer (I'm pretty sure that you'll correct me if I'm wrong), a video producer who just happened to be in Turkey at the site of the recent unsuccessful coup attempt, a Russian specialist, have a hard-on for the CIA, continue to bombard me with irrelevancies, and continue to misdefine the words "deep state."

I'm more than a little bit bemused. :(
If one can be taught to believe absurdities, one can commit atrocities. --Voltaire

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Re: Two promising new books on the current political situation

Post by Matthew Ellard » Sat Jan 06, 2018 4:25 am

Tom Palven wrote:I believe you said you are a lawyer
....who raised money from tax schemes to produce and production account, for TV shows, you watch in the USA, and owned a accounting firm with Harbin Russian business partners, which is why I had to learn Russian and go to Russia. I also lived and worked overseas after studying anthropology and political economics.

Your Turn.

If you had hard evidence that a Russian had stolen emails from the Democrats to interfere in the USA elections , which authority would you inform?
1) The KGB
2) Donald Trump's team
3) The USA's CIA and FBI
4) No one, as you hate the USA and want to see it isolated through Russian propaganda


You see, trolls like yourself are very good at pushing your talk points but absolutely terrible at answering any questions....because it's not scripted for you.

Why are you so frightened of my simple question? :lol:

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Re: Two promising new books on the current political situation

Post by Tom Palven » Sat Jan 06, 2018 7:34 am

Matthew Ellard wrote:
Tom Palven wrote:I believe you said you are a lawyer
....who raised money from tax schemes to produce and production account, for TV shows, you watch in the USA, and owned a accounting firm with Harbin Russian business partners, which is why I had to learn Russian and go to Russia. I also lived and worked overseas after studying anthropology and political economics.

Your Turn.

If you had hard evidence that a Russian had stolen emails from the Democrats to interfere in the USA elections , which authority would you inform?
1) The KGB
2) Donald Trump's team
3) The USA's CIA and FBI
4) No one, as you hate the USA and want to see it isolated through Russian propaganda


You see, trolls like yourself are very good at pushing your talk points but absolutely terrible at answering any questions....because it's not scripted for you.

Why are you so frightened of my simple question? :lol:


I'm ignoring your hypothetical BS diversion because if there were solid evidence the AP would be all over it, but I'm getting evermore suspicious about who butters your bread because you redefine Deep State in a unique way, claim to have been in Turkey during and at the site of the failed coup, and have a hard-on for the CIA. :(
https://mondediplo.com/2018/01/03waroniran
If one can be taught to believe absurdities, one can commit atrocities. --Voltaire

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Re: Two promising new books on the current political situation

Post by Matthew Ellard » Sun Jan 07, 2018 12:31 am

Tom Palven wrote:I'm ignoring your hypothetical BS diversion because.........
...my aim is to only promote bad things about the FBI and CIA. If I answered your question, then I would have to agree that the CIA and FBI have a purpose. I would then have to explain ways of improving them rather than just spreading Russian propaganda that they are just evil "Deep state".

Is that what you meant to say? :lol:

Tom Palven wrote:.... because you redefine Deep State in a unique way....
..... by actually setting out the specific legislated crimes to allow prosecution and reduction of corruption, where I, Tom Palven, keep my definition fuzzy so I can apply it to anything I, Tom Palven, don't like and never actually do anything to reduce it.

Is that what you meant to say? :lol:


Tom Palven wrote: ......and have a hard-on for the CIA.
You have worked out I'm an Australian socialist, haven't you? I'm not an American and I certainly don't have a hard on for the CIA, which is the clown school of foreign intelligence services. That's why the Russians keep penetrating it. Thank the stars Australia is here to get the USA out of trouble with the Russians again. :lol:

George Papadopoulos told Australian diplomat Russians had 'dirt' on Hillary Clinton before WikiLeaks published hacked emails: Report
http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/georg ... le/2644636

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