Sleepwalking

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Lausten
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Re: Sleepwalking

Postby Lausten » Mon Nov 23, 2015 2:07 pm

Here's a question for my detractors, since WWII, we have increased negotiating international affairs in exchange for outright warfare. We managed to not blow up each other up with nuclear weapons. At any other point in history, Greece would have been invaded by now. Native Americans and other indigenous people have staged a series of protests and have worked through politics and the courts to gain respect and reparations. The Palestinians have strong support among intellectuals. The world came together, in it's bumbling half-assed way, to address Yugoslavia and Darfur.

Given all that, if the people recruiting and planning for ISIS believe they have been wronged by international corporations and their puppet governments, why would they instead use the ideas of Sharia law and immoral Western behavior in their public statements? Why would they teach the children they are indoctrinating only the Koranic concepts of infidels and jihad, instead of educating them in the values of political sovereignty and the right to practice cultural traditions?
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Re: Sleepwalking

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Mon Nov 23, 2015 11:37 pm

Lausten: I think I have agreed with most of what you have posted. "Given that" what do you not understand about ISIS being driven by fundie religious concepts having nothing to do with the rest of the world? You Know: based on its own ideas, not ideas it rejects?

Did you really mean to highlight some other closely related but different issue?
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Re: Sleepwalking

Postby Matthew Ellard » Mon Nov 23, 2015 11:45 pm

Lausten wrote:We managed to not blow up each other up with nuclear weapons.
That, alone, is very good news. The cost to society to allow for that, is minuscule compared to the alternatives.

I have no problem with a continuous ongoing cost to society to maintain world peace. To me, this is a natural extension of nation states, having the ongoing cost of maintaining police, courts and gaols. To me this is just an indicator that, internationally, we are all becoming more civilised......slowly....with ups & downs....... but steadily improving. :D

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Lausten
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Re: Sleepwalking

Postby Lausten » Tue Nov 24, 2015 2:23 pm

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:Lausten: I think I have agreed with most of what you have posted. "Given that" what do you not understand about ISIS being driven by fundie religious concepts having nothing to do with the rest of the world? You Know: based on its own ideas, not ideas it rejects?

Did you really mean to highlight some other closely related but different issue?

Is that it? You're going to answer my question with a question? And what is the question anyway? Are you agreeing about "ISIS being driven by fundie religious concepts"? but then saying somehow that is divorced that from the larger context? What "own ideas" are you referring to?
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Lausten
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Re: Sleepwalking

Postby Lausten » Tue Nov 24, 2015 9:26 pm

A sermon helper that doesn't tell you what to believe: http://www.milepost100.com

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Re: Sleepwalking

Postby Matthew Ellard » Tue Nov 24, 2015 10:45 pm

This article has been praised on the JREF forum by both "doves & hawks". I also think it makes sense.

I would say that, until we get our paws on their internal historic communications, we can't say if this theory is definitely correct or that forcing "Armageddon" was always their intention. The fact that ISIS is made up from disparate older groups suggests some compromise in their current unified religious policy.

The other trend that may be going on is "bunker mentality" in that the original groups had long-term government in mind and thought they would be popular with occupied locals, but their horrible activities turned locals against them and now they are getting killed from the air. Therefore like Hitler, after his "save Europe from communism by invading it policy" they are saving face by going out with a bang. Again, this is impossible to review until we read their historic internal communications.

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Re: Sleepwalking

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Wed Nov 25, 2015 12:54 am

Lausten: what I wrote is clear enough. Unlike your questioning of my questioning your questions, my questions strongly imply the basis upon which they are made whereas yours are open ended.

See the difference?

Just look.
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Re: Sleepwalking

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Wed Nov 25, 2015 12:58 am

I think ISIS truly believes they are doing gods work. Whatever they do is sanctioned by Allah and his will will be done. It has most of the look a fatalism or dead enderism...but the motivation is slightly different: nut bag fundie religion.

Silly Hoomans....... they'll be the death of us all, if Anthropogenic Global Warming doesn't get us first.
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