Jesus Barabbas Son of the Father

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Jesus Barabbas Son of the Father

Post by SEG » Sat May 19, 2018 9:40 am

A lot of people are familiar of the biblical story of Pontius Pilate releasing a insurrectionary/murderer and condemned criminal, because it was the Passover festival, and asking the crowd whether to release Jesus (the son of the father) or Jesus Barabbas (whose name means son of the father) It resembles very closely the Yom Kippur tradition. Leviticus 16 discusses the Jewish Yom Kippur sacrifice, where two identical goats were selected each year. One was released into the wild bearing the sins of Israel, and was eventually pushed off a cliff. The other was sacrificed in blood to atone for those sins. Sacrificial lamb anyone?
See:
Mark 15:6-11 New Revised Standard Version (NRSV)
Pilate Hands Jesus over to Be Crucified
6 Now at the festival he used to release a prisoner for them, anyone for whom they asked. 7 Now a man called Barabbas was in prison with the rebels who had committed murder during the insurrection. 8 So the crowd came and began to ask Pilate to do for them according to his custom. 9 Then he answered them, “Do you want me to release for you the King of the Jews?” 10 For he realized that it was out of jealousy that the chief priests had handed him over. 11 But the chief priests stirred up the crowd to have him release Barabbas for them instead.
Anyone see anything strange about this story?
“There are no known non-biblical references to a historical Jesus by any historian or other writer of the time during and shortly after Jesus's purported advent.” His so-called life was a farce.

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Re: Jesus Barabbas Son of the Father

Post by gorgeous » Sat May 19, 2018 1:55 pm

interesting....here Seth by Jane Roberts tells what happened... "Christ, the historical Christ, was not crucified. - You will have to give me time here. (Pause.)

He had no intention of dying in that manner; but others felt that to fulfill the prophecies in all ways, a crucifixion was a necessity. Christ did not take part in it (Pause.) There was a conspiracy in which Judas: played a role an attempt to make a martyr out of Christ. The man chosen was drugged-hence the necessity of helping him carry the cross (see Luke:23) and he was told that he was the Christ. He believed that he was. He was one of deluded, but he also himself believed that he, not the historical Christ, was to fulfill the prophecies.

Mary came because she was, full of sorrow for the man who believed he was her son. Out of compassion she was present. The group responsible wanted it to appear that one particular portion of the Jews had crucified Christ, and never dreamed that the whole Jewish people would be "blamed."

(Pause at 10.00.) This is difficult to explain even for me to unravel. The tomb was empty because the same group carted the body away. Mary Magdalene did see Christ, however, immediately after (see Matthew 28). (Long, pause.) Christ was a great psychic. He caused the wounds to appear then upon His own body, and appeared both physically and in out-of-body states to His followers. He tried however, to explain what had happened and His position but those who were not in on the conspiracy would not understand, and misread His statements.

Peter three times denied the Lord (Matthew 26), saying he did not know Him because he knew that that person was not Christ.

The plea, "Peter, why hast thou forsaken me?" came from the man who believed he was Christ-the drugged version. Judas pointed out that man. He knew of the conspiracy, and feared that the real Christ would be captured. Therefore he handed over to the authorities a man known to be self-styled messiah--to save, not destroy, the life of the historical Christ.

(10..05. Jane's pace had speeded up considerably now.)

Symbolically, however, the crucifixion idea itself embodied deep dilemmas and meanings of the human psyche, and so the crucifixion per se became far greater reality then the actual physical events that occurred at the time.

Only the deluded are in danger of, or capable of, such self sacrifice, you see, or find it necessary. Only those still bound up in ideas of crime and punishment would be attracted to that kind of religious drama, and find within it deep echoes of their own subjective, feelings.

Christ knew however, clairvoyantly, that these events in one way or another would occur, and the probable dramas that could result. The man involved could not be swerved from his subjective decision. He would be sacrificed to make the old Jewish prophecies come true, and he could not be dissuaded.

(10:10.) In the Last Supper when Christ said, "This is my body, and this is my blood," He meant to show that the spirit was within all matter, interconnected, and yet apart--that His own spirit was independent of His body, and also in His own way to hint that He should no longer be identified with His body. For He knew the dead body would not be His own.

This was all misunderstood. Christ then changed His mode of behavior, appearing quite often in out-of-body states to His followers. (See John 20, 21; Matthew 28, Luke 24.) Before, he had not done this to that degree. He tried to tell them however that He was not dead, and they chose to take Him symbolically. (A one-minute pause.) His physical presence was no longer necessary, and was an embarrassment under the circumstances. He simply willed Himself out of it."
-------------------and-----------From "Seth Speaks" (session 560 November, 23 1970)

" Your Christ figure represents, symbolically, your idea of God and his relationships. There were three separate individuals whose history blended, and they became known collectively as Christ - hence many discrepancies in your records. These were all males because at that time of your development, you would not have accepted a female counterpart.

These individuals were part of one entity. You could not but imagine God as a father. It would never have occurred to you to imagine a god in any other than human terms. Earth components. These three figures worked out a drama, highly symbolic, propelled by concentrated energy of great force.

(Long pause at 9:52.) The EVENTS as they are recorded, however, did not occur in history. The crucifixion of Christ was a psychic, but not a physical event. Ideas of almost unimaginable magnitude were played out.

(Pause at 9:55.) Judas, for example, was not a man in your terms. He was - like all the other Disciples - a blessed, created "fragment personality," formed by the Christ personality. He REPRESENTED the self-betrayer. He dramatized a portion of each individual's personality that focuses upon physical reality in a grasping manner, and denies the inner self out of greed.

Each of the twelve represented qualities of personality that belong to one individual, and Christ as you know him represented the inner self. The twelve, therefore, plus Christ as you know him (the one figure composed of the three) represented an individual earthly personality - the inner self - and twelve main characteristics connected with the egotistical self. As Christ was surrounded by the Disciples, so the inner self is surrounded by these physically oriented characteristics, each drawn outward toward daily reality on the one hand, and yet orbiting the inner self.

The Disciples, therefore, were given physical reality by the inner self, as all of your earthly characteristics come out of your inner nature. This was a living parable, made flesh among you - a cosmic play worked out for your behalf, couched in terms that you could understand.

The lessons were made plain, as all the ideas behind them were personified. If you will forgive the term, this was like a local morality play, put on in your corner of the universe. This does not mean it was less real than you previously supposed. In fact, the implications of what is said here should clearly hint at the more powerful aspects of godhood.

The three Christ personalities were born upon your planet, and indeed became flesh among you. None of these was crucified. The twelve Disciples were materializations from the energies of these three personalities - their combined energies. They were then fully endowed with individuality, however, but their main task was to clearly manifest within themselves certain abilities inherent within all men.

The same kinds of dramas in different ways have been given, and while the drama is always different, it is always the same. This does not mean that a Christ has appeared within each system of reality. It means that the idea of Cod has manifested within each system in a way that is comprehensible to the inhabitants.

This drama continues to exist. It does not belong, for example, to your past. Only you have placed it there. This does not mean that it always REOCCURS. The drama, then was far from meaningless, and the spirit of Christ, in your terms, is legitimate. It is the probable God-drama that you choose to perceive. There were others that were perceived, but not by you, and there are other such dramas existing now.

Now: Whether or not the Crucifixion occurred physically, it was a psychic event, and exist as do all the other events connected with the drama.

Many were physical but some were not. The psychic event affected your world quite as much as the physical one, as is obvious, The whole drama occurred as a result of mankind's need. It was created as a result of that need, grew out of it, but it did not originate within your system of reality.

Other religions were based upon different dramas, in which ideas were acted out in a way that was comprehensible to various cultures. Unfortunately, the differences between the dramas often led to misunderstandings, and these were used as excuses for wars. These dramas are also privately worked out in the dream state. The God-personified figures first were introduced to man in the dream state, and the way then prepared.=20

In visions and inspirations, men knew that the Christ drama would be enacted and hence recognized it for what it was when it occurred physically. Its power and strength then returned to the dream universe. It had increased its vigor and intensity through the physical materialization. In private dream, men then related to the main figures in the drama, and in the dream state they recognized its true import.

Now: God is more than the sum of all the probable systems of reality He has created, and yet He is within each one of these, without exception. He is therefore within each man and woman. He is also within each spider, shadow, and frog, and this is what man does not like to admit.

God can only be experienced, and you experience Him whether or not you realize it, through your own existence. He is not male or female, however, and I use the term only for convenience's sake. In the most inescapable truth, He is not human in your terms at all, nor in your terms is He a personality. Your IDEAS of personality are too limited to contain the multitudinous facets of His multidimensional existence.

On the other hand, He is human, in that He is a portion of each individual; and within the vastness of His experience He holds an "IDEA-SHAPE" of Himself as human, to which you can relate. He literally was made flesh to dwell among you, for He forms your flesh in that He is responsible for the energy that gives vitality and validity to your private multidimensional self, which in turn forms your image in accordance with your own ideas.

The private multidimensional self, or the soul, has then an eternal validity. It is upheld, supported, maintained by the energy, the inconceivable vitality, of All That Is.

It cannot be destroyed then, this inner self of yours, nor can it be diminished. It shares in those abilities that are inherent within All That Is. It must, therefore, create as it is created, for this is the great giving that is behind all dimensions of existence, the spilling-over from the fountain of All That Is. "
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Re: Jesus Barabbas Son of the Father

Post by gorgeous » Sat May 19, 2018 2:01 pm

Sacrifice | religion | Britannica.com



https://www.britannica.com/topic/sacrifice-religion


In sacrifice a gift is given to the god, and thus man releases a flow between himself and the god. ... Blood sacrifice is linked not with the cultures of the hunter–gatherers but with those of the cultivators; its origin is in the ritual killing of the archaic cultivator cultures, which, in turn, is grounded in myth.
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Re: Jesus Barabbas Son of the Father

Post by Cadmusteeth » Sat May 19, 2018 2:10 pm

SEG wrote: Anyone see anything strange about this story?
The part were it calls Jesus the "king of the Jews" stands out to me. Other than that nothing else pops out to me.

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Re: Jesus Barabbas Son of the Father

Post by gorgeous » Sat May 19, 2018 2:30 pm

------The Original Christian Zodiac - Patheos

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/hedgerow/2 ... horoscope/


----Pointing to the writings and work of Cicero, the Chaldeans, Egyptians, Phoenecians, and to some of his more contemporary counterparts, Richer, Roberts, Dupuis, Clarke, Smith and Syce, Seiss explains that this mathematical precision, the artistic illustration connecting each star, tells the gospel story. He notes that even before these men, others had, “observed, classified, grouped and designated the starry worlds, assigning them their names, marking their courses, and making them the bearers of wisdom the dearest and most precious ever made known to man.” -------------------However, despite these textual translations, the gospel is laid out in pictures throughout the constellations of: a serpent, a cross, a dragon, a virgin, a seed, the serpent’s destroyer, conflict with the dragon, a lamb, a prince and kings, water, fish, sheep and a shepherd, warriors, and a lion.

The stars are a continual reminder that the Seed of the woman will ultimately triumph over the Serpent (Gen. 3:15). God’s revelation is constantly told in the stars (Ps. 19) — which is a message of salvation — available to every generation who professes faith. (Romans 9-11, Joel, Isa.) The entire ancient world received the gospel prior to Christ ever being born– through the stars.
-------- The next twelve articles will explain the biblical meaning behind each of the twelve signs of the Zodiac, their star groupings, and their part in telling the gospel story. The constellations are categorized into three groupings.

Person, work and triumph of Jesus Christ:

Virgo: Seed of the Woman, Jesus Incarnate

Libra: Redeemer

Scorpio: Sufferer

Saggitarius: Conquerer

The Fruit of His Work and Mediation, the body of people spiritually born to Him through faith:

Capricorn: Sacrifice

Aquarius: The Pouring Out of the Holy Spirit & Living Water

Pisces: Fishers of Men and the Persecuted Church

Aries: Glorious Lamb

The final consummation of the Redeemer who is reunited with His Redeemed:

Taurus: Judge

Gemini: King

Cancer: Protector

Leo: Victor
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Re: Jesus Barabbas Son of the Father

Post by gorgeous » Sat May 19, 2018 2:40 pm

-----^^^^^---Aries: Glorious Lamb-----------------Secular astrology maintains that Aries is a ram, following the Egyptian and Persian traditions. The Egyptians celebrated a feast in honor of the Ram before the full moon prior to the spring equinox. On the fourteenth day of the moon huge celebrations erupted with Egyptians putting foliage or some kind of decoration over their doors. They crowned the ram with flowers and marched in processions. The Persians also had a similar festival of Aries.



However, in ancient manuscripts Aries is a lamb. In Syriac, Amroo, means the “Lamb,” similar to John 1:29 “Behold the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world.”

In Arabic, the symbol of Aries, Al Hamal, means the “sheep,” the “Gentle,” and the “Merciful.” Likewise, the principle stars in this constellation mean “the wounded” (El Nath), “the bruised” and “the slain” (Al Sharetan).

The Romans identified Aries with a lamb in the myth of Nephele and her two children Phrixus and Helle. Nephele’s lamb was sacrificed to Jupiter, which yielded the Golden Fleece, the highest treasure among men. (Jupiter is the fifth planet from the sun and the largest planet in the solar system. Jupiter is also the name of the Roman king of the gods, the god of thunder and lightening. In Greek, his name is Zeus.)

However, if the constellation and its decans are understood within their original design, it becomes quite clear that Aries again points to the Lamb of God, Jesus Christ. He is the Seed of the Woman, the Lamb who was slain, the exalted one who rules over all with his divine dominion and glory.

Aries (March 21-April 20), according to Seiss, represents the Lamb on the throne, and:


“the gladdest period in all the history of the Church and people of God. The songs break forth in heaven in tremendous volume of Worthiness, and Blessing, and Honor, and Glory to the Lamb for redeeming men by His blood, and making them kings and priests unto God, and certifying that they shall reign on the earth.”


The decans of Aries are:
•Cassiopeia: The True Church of God lifted up and seated next to her glorious Redeemer is depicted as the most beautiful of all queens, “the glorified woman.” Her beauty is unmatched; she is perfect; is like pure gold (Ezek. 16:14; Eph. 5:27; Psalm 45:9). Her foot rests on the Arctic Circle. In one hand she holds a branch of victory and in the other she is arranging her hair. A glorious star-crowned king, to her right, is holding out a scepter to her, “his bride, the Lamb’s wife.”
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Re: Jesus Barabbas Son of the Father

Post by gorgeous » Sat May 19, 2018 2:50 pm

----------- Jesus and Mary in comperative mythology and astrology / astronomy ...



https://aratta.wordpress.com/.../jesus- ... e-mytholog...



Jan 20, 2017 - Mary is mother (Pisces) and consort (Virgo) of Jesus (Aries). Pisces is the last sign in the Zodiac – Aries the first. –. Virgo is detrimental to Pisces.------------------Aries – Pisces – Aquarius

Pisces is a constellation of the zodiac. Its name is the Latin plural for fish. It lies between Aquarius to the west and Aries to the east. The ecliptic and the celestial equator intersect within this constellation and in Virgo.

Pisces is the twelfth astrological sign in the Zodiac, originating from the Pisces constellation. It spans the 330° to 360° of the zodiac, between 332.75° and 360° of celestial longitude. Under the tropical zodiac the sun transits this area on average between February 19 and March 20, and under the sidereal zodiac, the sun transits this area between approximately March 13 and April 13.

Aries (meaning “ram”) is the first astrological sign in the zodiac, spanning the first 30 degrees of celestial longitude (0°≤ λ <30°). Under the tropical zodiac, the Sun transits this sign mostly between March 21 and April 20 each year. Under the sidereal zodiac, the sun currently transits Aries from April 15 to May 14. The symbol of the ram is based on the Chrysomallus, the flying ram that provided the Golden Fleece. The fleece is a symbol of authority and kingship.

The March equinox or Northward equinox is the equinox on the Earth when the Sun appears to leave the southern hemisphere and cross the celestial equator, heading northward as seen from earth. In the Northern Hemisphere the March equinox is known as the vernal equinox, and in the Southern Hemisphere as the autumnal equinox.

The point where the sun crosses the celestial equator northwards is called the First Point of Aries. However, due to the precession of the equinoxes, this point is no longer in the constellation Aries, but rather in Pisces, due south of ω Psc, and, due to precession, slowly drifting below the western fish towards Aquarius.

By the year 2600 it will be in Aquarius. According to some tropical astrologers, the current astrological age is the Age of Pisces, while others maintain that it is the Age of Aquarius.

The age of Pisces began c. 1 AD and will end c. 2150 AD. With the story of the birth of Christ coinciding with this date, many Christian symbols for Christ use the astrological symbol for Pisces, the fishes.

The figure Christ himself bears many of the temperaments and personality traits of a Pisces, and is thus considered an archetype of the Piscean. Moreover, the twelve apostles were called the “fishers of men,” early Christians called themselves “little fishes,” and a code word for Jesus was the Greek word for fish, “Ikhthus.”

With this, the start of the age, or the “Great Month of Pisces” is regarded as the beginning of the Christian religion. Saint Peter is recognized as the apostle of the Piscean sign.

Pisces has been called the “dying god,” where its sign opposite in the night sky is Virgo, or, the Virgin Mary. When Jesus was asked by his disciples where the next Passover would be, he replied to them: Behold, when ye are entered into the city, there shall a man meet you bearing a pitcher of water… follow him into the house where he entereth in. — Jesus, Luke 22:10

This coincides with the changing of the ages, into the Age of Aquarius, as the personification of the constellation of Aquarius is a man carrying a pitcher of water.

A planet’s domicile is the zodiac sign over which it has rulership, and the rulers of Pisces, or those associated with Pisceans, are Jupiter, Neptune, and the moon.
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Re: Jesus Barabbas Son of the Father

Post by Cadmusteeth » Sat May 19, 2018 8:18 pm

Yeesh

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Re: Jesus Barabbas Son of the Father

Post by scrmbldggs » Sat May 19, 2018 9:19 pm

Cadmusteeth wrote:
SEG wrote: Anyone see anything strange about this story?
The part were it calls Jesus the "king of the Jews" stands out to me. Other than that nothing else pops out to me.
Nah, s/he probably means that they obviously switched Jesus A (the son of the father) with Jesus B (the son of the father.

How else could he have a tomb in Japan. :roll:
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Re: Jesus Barabbas Son of the Father

Post by Gord » Sat May 19, 2018 10:09 pm

Wouldn't the one being released into the wilds also be a sacrifice if it eventually gets pushed off a cliff?
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Re: Jesus Barabbas Son of the Father

Post by scrmbldggs » Sat May 19, 2018 11:18 pm

.
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Re: Jesus Barabbas Son of the Father

Post by SEG » Sat May 19, 2018 11:22 pm

Cadmusteeth wrote:
SEG wrote: Anyone see anything strange about this story?
The part were it calls Jesus the "king of the Jews" stands out to me. Other than that nothing else pops out to me.
It's a made up lie. Phoney name made up to fit the allegorical meaning, lies about no such Roman or Jewish tradition EVER, lies about Pilate cringing before an unarmed Jewish mob while having the armed might of the Roman army behind him. He would be crucified himself for letting go an enemy of the Roman empire and giving in to the Jews. Big fat lies. :)
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Re: Jesus Barabbas Son of the Father

Post by Gord » Sun May 20, 2018 12:54 am

scrmbldggs wrote:Yes :-P
:P
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Re: Jesus Barabbas Son of the Father

Post by psychiatry is a scam » Sun May 20, 2018 1:22 am

What do you hope to accomplish attacking Jesus?

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Re: Jesus Barabbas Son of the Father

Post by Lance Kennedy » Sun May 20, 2018 2:12 am

Gorgeous has come up with all kinds of complicated bull dust as a silly explanation.

Occam's Razor says that the simpler explanation is more likely. Here is my explanation.

None of it happened.

Now do you believe my simple explanation or G's very complicated one ?

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Re: Jesus Barabbas Son of the Father

Post by Gord » Sun May 20, 2018 2:32 am

psychiatry is a scam wrote:What do you hope to accomplish attacking Jesus?
Brrrrruhhhhh? :|
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Re: Jesus Barabbas Son of the Father

Post by gorgeous » Sun May 20, 2018 3:18 am

the symbols and themes of Christianity have been repeated many times...no accident...nders have at times met Jesus though....they say he has a great sense of humor...
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Re: Jesus Barabbas Son of the Father

Post by Lance Kennedy » Sun May 20, 2018 3:51 am

Schizophrenics have talked to Jesus, and to angels, and aliens. Yeah, riiiight !

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Re: Jesus Barabbas Son of the Father

Post by Poodle » Sun May 20, 2018 5:48 am

Jesus came to Britain, too. With his Mum. Well-known fact.

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Re: Jesus Barabbas Son of the Father

Post by SEG » Sun May 20, 2018 10:17 am

Gord wrote:Wouldn't the one being released into the wilds also be a sacrifice if it eventually gets pushed off a cliff?
Yes, some animals were used as sacrifices.
“There are no known non-biblical references to a historical Jesus by any historian or other writer of the time during and shortly after Jesus's purported advent.” His so-called life was a farce.

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Re: Jesus Barabbas Son of the Father

Post by Cadmusteeth » Sun May 20, 2018 5:05 pm

SEG wrote:
Cadmusteeth wrote:
SEG wrote: Anyone see anything strange about this story?
The part were it calls Jesus the "king of the Jews" stands out to me. Other than that nothing else pops out to me.
It's a made up lie. Phoney name made up to fit the allegorical meaning, lies about no such Roman or Jewish tradition EVER, lies about Pilate cringing before an unarmed Jewish mob while having the armed might of the Roman army behind him. He would be crucified himself for letting go an enemy of the Roman empire and giving in to the Jews. Big fat lies. :)
Well, I tried.

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Re: Jesus Barabbas Son of the Father

Post by Poodle » Sun May 20, 2018 8:36 pm

scrmbldggs wrote:... How else could he have a tomb in Japan. :roll:
He had one in India, too, thus proving that both of them were released. He also came to Britain with his Mum, so there must have been three of them. Plus the one that actually did get crucified, so that's four of 'em and the Romans only had three crosses.
Gross mismanagement, if you ask me.

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Re: Jesus Barabbas Son of the Father

Post by Gord » Mon May 21, 2018 12:22 am

SEG wrote:
Gord wrote:Wouldn't the one being released into the wilds also be a sacrifice if it eventually gets pushed off a cliff?
Yes, some animals were used as sacrifices.
Were they? :P
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Re: Jesus Barabbas Son of the Father

Post by SEG » Mon May 21, 2018 5:13 am

psychiatry is a scam wrote:What do you hope to accomplish attacking Jesus?
How can you attack a ghost?
“There are no known non-biblical references to a historical Jesus by any historian or other writer of the time during and shortly after Jesus's purported advent.” His so-called life was a farce.

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Re: Jesus Barabbas Son of the Father

Post by SEG » Mon May 21, 2018 5:21 am

Gord wrote:
SEG wrote:
Gord wrote:Wouldn't the one being released into the wilds also be a sacrifice if it eventually gets pushed off a cliff?
Yes, some animals were used as sacrifices.
Were they? :P
Hahahar! You asked! I think that you were saying that if Barabbas was released, would he be sacrificed like the other goat as well? No one knows what happened to him as he vanishes as soon as his raison d'être is up. Pity, he could have been a great witness for Jeebus and made it on the talk circuit.
“There are no known non-biblical references to a historical Jesus by any historian or other writer of the time during and shortly after Jesus's purported advent.” His so-called life was a farce.

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Re: Jesus Barabbas Son of the Father

Post by SEG » Mon May 21, 2018 6:31 am

SEG wrote:Anyone see anything strange about this story?
Cadmusteeth wrote:The part were it calls Jesus the "king of the Jews" stands out to me. Other than that nothing else pops out to me.
SEG wrote:It's a made up lie. Phoney name made up to fit the allegorical meaning, lies about no such Roman or Jewish tradition EVER, lies about Pilate cringing before an unarmed Jewish mob while having the armed might of the Roman army behind him. He would be crucified himself for letting go an enemy of the Roman empire and giving in to the Jews. Big fat lies. :)
Cadmusteeth wrote:Well, I tried.
"king of the Jews" should have been translated as "King of the Few" if he really was as obscure as some of the experts make out.
“There are no known non-biblical references to a historical Jesus by any historian or other writer of the time during and shortly after Jesus's purported advent.” His so-called life was a farce.

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Re: Jesus Barabbas Son of the Father

Post by SEG » Mon May 21, 2018 6:33 am

gorgeous wrote:interesting....here Seth by Jane Roberts tells what happened... "Christ, the historical Christ, was not crucified. - You will have to give me time here. (Pause.)

He had no intention of dying in that manner; but others felt that to fulfill the prophecies in all ways, a crucifixion was a necessity. Christ did not take part in it (Pause.) There was a conspiracy in which Judas: played a role an attempt to make a martyr out of Christ. The man chosen was drugged-hence the necessity of helping him carry the cross (see Luke:23) and he was told that he was the Christ. He believed that he was. He was one of deluded, but he also himself believed that he, not the historical Christ, was to fulfill the prophecies.

Mary came because she was, full of sorrow for the man who believed he was her son. Out of compassion she was present. The group responsible wanted it to appear that one particular portion of the Jews had crucified Christ, and never dreamed that the whole Jewish people would be "blamed."

(Pause at 10.00.) This is difficult to explain even for me to unravel. The tomb was empty because the same group carted the body away. Mary Magdalene did see Christ, however, immediately after (see Matthew 28). (Long, pause.) Christ was a great psychic. He caused the wounds to appear then upon His own body, and appeared both physically and in out-of-body states to His followers. He tried however, to explain what had happened and His position but those who were not in on the conspiracy would not understand, and misread His statements.

Peter three times denied the Lord (Matthew 26), saying he did not know Him because he knew that that person was not Christ.

The plea, "Peter, why hast thou forsaken me?" came from the man who believed he was Christ-the drugged version. Judas pointed out that man. He knew of the conspiracy, and feared that the real Christ would be captured. Therefore he handed over to the authorities a man known to be self-styled messiah--to save, not destroy, the life of the historical Christ.

(10..05. Jane's pace had speeded up considerably now.)

Symbolically, however, the crucifixion idea itself embodied deep dilemmas and meanings of the human psyche, and so the crucifixion per se became far greater reality then the actual physical events that occurred at the time.

Only the deluded are in danger of, or capable of, such self sacrifice, you see, or find it necessary. Only those still bound up in ideas of crime and punishment would be attracted to that kind of religious drama, and find within it deep echoes of their own subjective, feelings.

Christ knew however, clairvoyantly, that these events in one way or another would occur, and the probable dramas that could result. The man involved could not be swerved from his subjective decision. He would be sacrificed to make the old Jewish prophecies come true, and he could not be dissuaded.

(10:10.) In the Last Supper when Christ said, "This is my body, and this is my blood," He meant to show that the spirit was within all matter, interconnected, and yet apart--that His own spirit was independent of His body, and also in His own way to hint that He should no longer be identified with His body. For He knew the dead body would not be His own.

This was all misunderstood. Christ then changed His mode of behavior, appearing quite often in out-of-body states to His followers. (See John 20, 21; Matthew 28, Luke 24.) Before, he had not done this to that degree. He tried to tell them however that He was not dead, and they chose to take Him symbolically. (A one-minute pause.) His physical presence was no longer necessary, and was an embarrassment under the circumstances. He simply willed Himself out of it."
-------------------and-----------From "Seth Speaks" (session 560 November, 23 1970)

" Your Christ figure represents, symbolically, your idea of God and his relationships. There were three separate individuals whose history blended, and they became known collectively as Christ - hence many discrepancies in your records. These were all males because at that time of your development, you would not have accepted a female counterpart.

These individuals were part of one entity. You could not but imagine God as a father. It would never have occurred to you to imagine a god in any other than human terms. Earth components. These three figures worked out a drama, highly symbolic, propelled by concentrated energy of great force.

(Long pause at 9:52.) The EVENTS as they are recorded, however, did not occur in history. The crucifixion of Christ was a psychic, but not a physical event. Ideas of almost unimaginable magnitude were played out.

(Pause at 9:55.) Judas, for example, was not a man in your terms. He was - like all the other Disciples - a blessed, created "fragment personality," formed by the Christ personality. He REPRESENTED the self-betrayer. He dramatized a portion of each individual's personality that focuses upon physical reality in a grasping manner, and denies the inner self out of greed.

Each of the twelve represented qualities of personality that belong to one individual, and Christ as you know him represented the inner self. The twelve, therefore, plus Christ as you know him (the one figure composed of the three) represented an individual earthly personality - the inner self - and twelve main characteristics connected with the egotistical self. As Christ was surrounded by the Disciples, so the inner self is surrounded by these physically oriented characteristics, each drawn outward toward daily reality on the one hand, and yet orbiting the inner self.

The Disciples, therefore, were given physical reality by the inner self, as all of your earthly characteristics come out of your inner nature. This was a living parable, made flesh among you - a cosmic play worked out for your behalf, couched in terms that you could understand.

The lessons were made plain, as all the ideas behind them were personified. If you will forgive the term, this was like a local morality play, put on in your corner of the universe. This does not mean it was less real than you previously supposed. In fact, the implications of what is said here should clearly hint at the more powerful aspects of godhood.

The three Christ personalities were born upon your planet, and indeed became flesh among you. None of these was crucified. The twelve Disciples were materializations from the energies of these three personalities - their combined energies. They were then fully endowed with individuality, however, but their main task was to clearly manifest within themselves certain abilities inherent within all men.

The same kinds of dramas in different ways have been given, and while the drama is always different, it is always the same. This does not mean that a Christ has appeared within each system of reality. It means that the idea of Cod has manifested within each system in a way that is comprehensible to the inhabitants.

This drama continues to exist. It does not belong, for example, to your past. Only you have placed it there. This does not mean that it always REOCCURS. The drama, then was far from meaningless, and the spirit of Christ, in your terms, is legitimate. It is the probable God-drama that you choose to perceive. There were others that were perceived, but not by you, and there are other such dramas existing now.

Now: Whether or not the Crucifixion occurred physically, it was a psychic event, and exist as do all the other events connected with the drama.

Many were physical but some were not. The psychic event affected your world quite as much as the physical one, as is obvious, The whole drama occurred as a result of mankind's need. It was created as a result of that need, grew out of it, but it did not originate within your system of reality.

Other religions were based upon different dramas, in which ideas were acted out in a way that was comprehensible to various cultures. Unfortunately, the differences between the dramas often led to misunderstandings, and these were used as excuses for wars. These dramas are also privately worked out in the dream state. The God-personified figures first were introduced to man in the dream state, and the way then prepared.=20

In visions and inspirations, men knew that the Christ drama would be enacted and hence recognized it for what it was when it occurred physically. Its power and strength then returned to the dream universe. It had increased its vigor and intensity through the physical materialization. In private dream, men then related to the main figures in the drama, and in the dream state they recognized its true import.

Now: God is more than the sum of all the probable systems of reality He has created, and yet He is within each one of these, without exception. He is therefore within each man and woman. He is also within each spider, shadow, and frog, and this is what man does not like to admit.

God can only be experienced, and you experience Him whether or not you realize it, through your own existence. He is not male or female, however, and I use the term only for convenience's sake. In the most inescapable truth, He is not human in your terms at all, nor in your terms is He a personality. Your IDEAS of personality are too limited to contain the multitudinous facets of His multidimensional existence.

On the other hand, He is human, in that He is a portion of each individual; and within the vastness of His experience He holds an "IDEA-SHAPE" of Himself as human, to which you can relate. He literally was made flesh to dwell among you, for He forms your flesh in that He is responsible for the energy that gives vitality and validity to your private multidimensional self, which in turn forms your image in accordance with your own ideas.

The private multidimensional self, or the soul, has then an eternal validity. It is upheld, supported, maintained by the energy, the inconceivable vitality, of All That Is.

It cannot be destroyed then, this inner self of yours, nor can it be diminished. It shares in those abilities that are inherent within All That Is. It must, therefore, create as it is created, for this is the great giving that is behind all dimensions of existence, the spilling-over from the fountain of All That Is. "
Would you be a Christian?
“There are no known non-biblical references to a historical Jesus by any historian or other writer of the time during and shortly after Jesus's purported advent.” His so-called life was a farce.

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Re: Jesus Barabbas Son of the Father

Post by gorgeous » Mon May 21, 2018 1:04 pm

no...I believe in God, Jesus , Buddha, other teachers exist..
Science Fundamentalism...is exactly what happens when there’s a significant, perceived ideological threat to one’s traditions and identity.

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Re: Jesus Barabbas Son of the Father

Post by Lance Kennedy » Mon May 21, 2018 8:26 pm

G believes in each and every superstition. Very democratic that way.

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Re: Jesus Barabbas Son of the Father

Post by SEG » Tue May 22, 2018 1:43 am

gorgeous wrote:no...I believe in God, Jesus , Buddha, other teachers exist..
So you don't go to church? Not a member of any group?
“There are no known non-biblical references to a historical Jesus by any historian or other writer of the time during and shortly after Jesus's purported advent.” His so-called life was a farce.

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Re: Jesus Barabbas Son of the Father

Post by SEG » Tue May 22, 2018 2:01 am

Lance Kennedy wrote:G believes in each and every superstition. Very democratic that way.
More like Republican isn't it?
“There are no known non-biblical references to a historical Jesus by any historian or other writer of the time during and shortly after Jesus's purported advent.” His so-called life was a farce.

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Re: Jesus Barabbas Son of the Father

Post by gorgeous » Tue May 22, 2018 2:03 am

no group
Science Fundamentalism...is exactly what happens when there’s a significant, perceived ideological threat to one’s traditions and identity.

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Re: Jesus Barabbas Son of the Father

Post by Poodle » Tue May 22, 2018 7:58 am

A fairy dies every time you tell a lie, gorgeous.

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Re: Jesus Barabbas Son of the Father

Post by SEG » Tue May 22, 2018 2:04 pm

gorgeous wrote:no group
So you don't go to church?
“There are no known non-biblical references to a historical Jesus by any historian or other writer of the time during and shortly after Jesus's purported advent.” His so-called life was a farce.

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Re: Jesus Barabbas Son of the Father

Post by gorgeous » Tue May 22, 2018 3:33 pm

no
Science Fundamentalism...is exactly what happens when there’s a significant, perceived ideological threat to one’s traditions and identity.

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Re: Jesus Barabbas Son of the Father

Post by SEG » Tue May 22, 2018 9:26 pm

gorgeous wrote:··· the name of the Roman king of the gods, the god of thunder and lightening.
Was he the god responsible for your tan fading during the Winter?
“There are no known non-biblical references to a historical Jesus by any historian or other writer of the time during and shortly after Jesus's purported advent.” His so-called life was a farce.

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Re: Jesus Barabbas Son of the Father

Post by gorgeous » Tue May 22, 2018 10:44 pm

huh?
Science Fundamentalism...is exactly what happens when there’s a significant, perceived ideological threat to one’s traditions and identity.

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Re: Jesus Barabbas Son of the Father

Post by SEG » Tue May 22, 2018 11:26 pm

gorgeous wrote:huh?
the god of thunder and lightening
“There are no known non-biblical references to a historical Jesus by any historian or other writer of the time during and shortly after Jesus's purported advent.” His so-called life was a farce.

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Re: Jesus Barabbas Son of the Father

Post by gorgeous » Tue May 22, 2018 11:43 pm

hmmm...who knows
Science Fundamentalism...is exactly what happens when there’s a significant, perceived ideological threat to one’s traditions and identity.

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Re: Jesus Barabbas Son of the Father

Post by Gord » Wed May 23, 2018 10:54 am

SEG wrote:
Gord wrote:
SEG wrote:
Gord wrote:Wouldn't the one being released into the wilds also be a sacrifice if it eventually gets pushed off a cliff?
Yes, some animals were used as sacrifices.
Were they? :P
Hahahar! You asked! I think that you were saying that if Barabbas was released, would he be sacrificed like the other goat as well? No one knows what happened to him as he vanishes as soon as his raison d'être is up. Pity, he could have been a great witness for Jeebus and made it on the talk circuit.
No, my question was actually more basic: If the tradition was to take two goats, "sacrifice" one and "let the other go" into the wilderness where it would also die, then aren't you actually killing both goats and therefore "sacrificing" both goats?

It's sort of like being on a boat and saying, "I have two dollar bills. I will burn one, and I will throw the other one overboard. Only the burnt one will be considered a sacrifice, because ... ummm ... because 'reasons'."

Silly bronze age goatherders. :shakemyhead:
"Knowledge grows through infinite timelessness" -- the random fictional Deepak Chopra quote site
"Imagine an ennobling of what could be" -- the New Age BS Generator site
"You are also taking my words out of context." -- Justin
"Nullius in verba" -- The Royal Society ["take nobody's word for it"]
#ANDAMOVIE
Is Trump in jail yet?