Should Governments regulate fraudulent religions?

General discussion on the subject of religion, losing religion, and having no religion to lose...
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Gnostic Bishop
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Should Governments regulate fraudulent religions?

Post by Gnostic Bishop » Sat Mar 17, 2018 12:59 pm

Should Governments regulate fraudulent religions?

https://www.google.ca/search?source=hp& ... CgTyqsYAOA

Fraud is a broad term that refers to a variety of offenses involving dishonesty or "fraudulent acts". In essence, fraud is the intentional deception of a person or entity by another made for monetary or personal gain. Fraud offenses always include some sort of false statement, misrepresentation, or deceitful conduct.

Most governments and countries have fraud laws of some kinds. They generally interfere with religious fraudsters only when physical harm is being done to our gullible citizens yet ignore the monetary theft that the fraudsters fleece from their victims. Prosperity ministries are the most flagrant of these immoral religions, but all religions based on demonstrable lies would be included in this question.

Our governments are quite good at acting against obvious fraudsters yet seem reluctant to protect our more gullible citizens when it comes down to religions.

Religions, to me, get a free pass to lie and steal all they can from victims, especially the older citizens even when governments know about the fraud.

I begin to see the inaction of governments on these religious fraudsters as a dereliction of duty.

Do you?

Regards
DL

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Re: Should Governments regulate fraudulent religions?

Post by scrmbldggs » Sat Mar 17, 2018 2:41 pm

"all religions based on demonstrable lies would be included in this question" - they'd have to go against the whole of it.
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Re: Should Governments regulate fraudulent religions?

Post by Poodle » Sat Mar 17, 2018 6:22 pm

"Intentional" provides the problem. To be frank, I suspect that any demonstration of intent to fraud in any religion would apply equally to all religions. It follows that no such demonstration will take place.

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Re: Should Governments regulate fraudulent religions?

Post by OlegTheBatty » Sat Mar 17, 2018 6:28 pm

The government would have to define the fraud in a way that a majority of religious people would support it. Good luck with that.
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Re: Should Governments regulate fraudulent religions?

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Sat Mar 17, 2018 6:36 pm

Just enforce the "rules" that are already there: PROCEEDS to the CHARITY to be used for CHARITABLE PURPOSES. ie: no limousines and jet aircraft for church leaders as that is private benefit. Anything over average usa income is excess. Let them have a free parsonage owned by the Church and that is about it.

ITS ALREADY THE LAW.....just not enforced.
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Re: Should Governments regulate fraudulent religions?

Post by scrmbldggs » Sat Mar 17, 2018 8:46 pm

And if they made them pay taxes, everyone else would get a relief instead of having to pick up their tax deductible member fees and piles of garbage purchased with tax deductible "gifts". They are businesses, tax them as such.
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Re: Should Governments regulate fraudulent religions?

Post by Angel » Sun Mar 18, 2018 12:23 am

Not to sound like a troll but isn't the gov'
being run by fraudulent religions? Lol
Are you proud of yourselves yet?
Being the big bully's that you are.
So you can break my heart. Big Deal.
May you all rest in my peace <3
Has A Nice Day :lol: <3

Ps ~ if you know who I am then why do you treat us so?

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Re: Should Governments regulate fraudulent religions?

Post by Matthew Ellard » Sun Mar 18, 2018 5:31 am

Angel wrote:Not to sound like a troll but isn't the gov' being run by fraudulent religions?
No and no one has ever claimed that.

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Re: Should Governments regulate fraudulent religions?

Post by Gnostic Bishop » Sun Mar 18, 2018 2:02 pm

scrmbldggs wrote:"all religions based on demonstrable lies would be included in this question" - they'd have to go against the whole of it.
I do not see that as the job of a judge who can only deal with the fraud part of what is being preached.

The I.D. trial, for instance, showed that I.D. was a lie but the court did not condemn all of Christianity.
Just recently the government ruled against Mormonism's polygamy rules but did not condemn Mormonism as a whole religion.

It would be good though for the governments to revue all the religions in a public forum so as to see which are worthy of us and which preach against the law of the land as well as lying to their adherents though.

Regards
DL

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Re: Should Governments regulate fraudulent religions?

Post by Gnostic Bishop » Sun Mar 18, 2018 2:07 pm

Poodle wrote:"Intentional" provides the problem. To be frank, I suspect that any demonstration of intent to fraud in any religion would apply equally to all religions. It follows that no such demonstration will take place.
In the I.D. trial, the lie was found and the verdict given in accordance to that lie without having to demonstrate that it was intentional.

The same would apply, I think, to a defendant who was ruled against. If that person then continues to lie, it would be knowingly and then he would be subject to a lot harsher punishments. That ruling might then be applied to the whole religion.

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DL

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Re: Should Governments regulate fraudulent religions?

Post by Gnostic Bishop » Sun Mar 18, 2018 2:10 pm

OlegTheBatty wrote:The government would have to define the fraud in a way that a majority of religious people would support it. Good luck with that.
It seems that you do not have much faith in the intelligence of your population even after the legal system finds fault.

You might be right but to not rule for his children and the rest of the more intelligent population would be a dereliction of duty.

Regards
DL

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Re: Should Governments regulate fraudulent religions?

Post by Gnostic Bishop » Sun Mar 18, 2018 2:12 pm

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:Just enforce the "rules" that are already there: PROCEEDS to the CHARITY to be used for CHARITABLE PURPOSES. ie: no limousines and jet aircraft for church leaders as that is private benefit. Anything over average usa income is excess. Let them have a free parsonage owned by the Church and that is about it.

ITS ALREADY THE LAW.....just not enforced.
Correct.

I also add the open fraud that we are tolerating as a nation.

This following shows the depth of the corruption that goes on when we do not clamp down on fraudsters.

The crooks ain't just confined to religions. Here are a few more crooks:
Rank Charity name... Total raised by solicitors ...Paid to solicitors ... % spent on direct cash aid
1 Kids Wish Network 137.9million 115.9 million 2.5%
2 Cancer Fund of America 86.8million 75.4 million 1.0%
3 Children's Wish Foundation International 92.7million 61.2 million 10.6%
4 Firefighters Charitable Foundation 62.8million 53.8 million 7.4%
5 International Union of Police Associations, AFL-CIO 66.6million 50.4 million 0.5%
6 Breast Cancer Relief Foundation 63.9million 44.8 million 2.2%
7 American Association of State Troopers 48.1million 38.6 million 8.9%
8 National Veterans Service Fund 70.2million 36.9 million 7.8%
9 Children's Cancer Fund of America 43.7million 34.4 million 4.6%
10 Children's Cancer Recovery Foundation 38.5million 28.9 million 0.7%
11 Project Cure (Bradenton, FL) 53.8million 25.5 million 0.0%
12 Committee For Missing Children 26.6million 23.5 million 0.8%
13 Youth Development Fund 27.5million 22.6 million 1.0%
14 Association for Firefighters and Paramedics 24.0million 21.4 million 3.1%
15 Woman To Woman Breast Cancer Foundation 19.4million 18.2 million 0.3%
16 United States Deputy Sheriffs' Association 25.6million 17.9 million 0.8%
17 National Caregiving Foundation 21.0million 17.4 million 3.2%
18 Vietnow National Headquarters 19.1million 16.7 million 2.8%
19 National Cancer Coalition 42.1million 16.4 million 1.3%
20 Operation Lookout National Center for Missing Youth 18.2million 14.7 million 0.0%
21 American Foundation For Disabled Children 15.8million 13.4 million 0.6%
22 Heart Support of America 31.4million 12.9 million 3.1%
23 Police Protective Fund 37.7million 12.2 million 0.7%
24 Veterans Assistance Foundation 12.4million 11.1 million 10.4%
25 Children's Charity Fund 14.0million 10.3 million 2.4%
26 The Veterans Fund 12.6million 10.2 million 2.5%
27 Wishing Well Foundation USA 12.6million 10.1 million 4.3%
28 Disabled Police Officers of America Inc. 11.4million 9.5 million 2.3%
29 Disabled Police and Sheriffs Foundation 10.4million 8.9 million 1.0%
30 National Police Defense Foundation 10.6million 8.4 million 5.1%
31 Defeat Diabetes Foundation 12.7million 7.8 million 0.0%
32 American Association of the Deaf & Blind 10.3million 7.8 million 0.1%
33 Optimal Medical Foundation 7.8million 7.6 million 1.0%
34 Circle of Friends For American Veterans 9.3million 7.2 million 4.4%
35 United Breast Cancer Foundation 12.7million 7.2 million 6.3%
36 Reserve Police Officers Association 7.8million 6.9 million 1.2%
37 Children's Leukemia Research Association 9.8million 6.8 million 11.1%
38 Disabled Police Officers Counseling Center 7.6million 6.4 million 0.1%
39 Shiloh International Ministries 7.7million 6.0 million 1.1%
40 Find the Children 7.4million 4.8 million 4.6%
41 Survivors and Victims Empowered 7.7million 4.8 million 0.0%
42 Firefighters Assistance Fund 5.7million 4.7 million 3.1%
43 Caring for Our Children Foundation 5.1million 4.4 million 1.6%
44 National Narcotic Officers Associations Coalition 5.0million 4.2 million 0.0%
45 Our American Veterans 2.6million 2.3 million 2.3%
46 Roger Wyburn-Mason & Jack M Blount Foundation For Eradication of Rheumatoid Disease 9.0million 1.9 million 0.0%
47 Hope Cancer Fund 2.1million 1.7 million 0.5%
48 Firefighters Burn Fund 2.0million 1.7 million 1.5%

Crooks all, and there ain't nothing illegal about it.

I also think that religions should not receive any tax breaks of any kind and that their adherents should not be able to use what they give as tax deductions.

Churches are just theatres showing adult fairy tales and we cannot deduct what we spend at other theatres so people should not be able to deduct what is basically entertainment.

Regards
DL

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Re: Should Governments regulate fraudulent religions?

Post by Gnostic Bishop » Sun Mar 18, 2018 2:17 pm

Angel wrote:Not to sound like a troll but isn't the gov'
being run by fraudulent religions? Lol
In the U.S., yes, I think so. The tail is wagging the dog.

Regards
DL

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Re: Should Governments regulate fraudulent religions?

Post by Gnostic Bishop » Sun Mar 18, 2018 2:21 pm

Matthew Ellard wrote:
Angel wrote:Not to sound like a troll but isn't the gov' being run by fraudulent religions?
No and no one has ever claimed that.
There is no official religion test for the U.S. politicians but the chances of an atheist getting elected in the present U.S. mind set is near 0.

The numbers of politicians who lie about their faith is a good indication of that and the fact that right after the swearing in of a new president, he goes to church, shows how ingrained religion is in U.S. politics.

That hypocrisy is what is helping make the U.S. the laughing stock of the world.

Regards
DL

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Re: Should Governments regulate fraudulent religions?

Post by OlegTheBatty » Sun Mar 18, 2018 5:34 pm

Matthew Ellard wrote:
Angel wrote:Not to sound like a troll but isn't the gov' being run by fraudulent religions?
No and no one has ever claimed that.
Maybe not precisely, but it is certainly true that religious fraudsters have far more political capital than mere pissants. I think one could make a very good case defending the proposition that, in the US at least, declaring relious affiliation is a political declaration.
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There is no statement so absurd that it has not been uttered by some philosopher. - Cicero

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Re: Should Governments regulate fraudulent religions?

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Sun Mar 18, 2018 6:44 pm

Gnostic Bishop wrote:
Angel wrote:Not to sound like a troll but isn't the gov'
being run by fraudulent religions? Lol
No. It is an empty declaration that almost all those in politics have to make in order to escape the howl of the masses. Once you declare your belief in god, you are free thereafter to do anything you wish with rarely any consequence at all unless there are pictures.
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Re: Should Governments regulate fraudulent religions?

Post by OlegTheBatty » Sun Mar 18, 2018 7:13 pm

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:
Gnostic Bishop wrote:
Angel wrote:Not to sound like a troll but isn't the gov'
being run by fraudulent religions? Lol
No. It is an empty declaration that almost all those in politics have to make in order to escape the howl of the masses. Once you declare your belief in god, you are free thereafter to do anything you wish with rarely any consequence at all unless there are pictures.
It isn't their behaviour, Bobbo, it's the legislation they vote for if they are elected politicians; or the way they interpret the laws if they are unelected politicians such as the judges on SCOTUS.
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There is no statement so absurd that it has not been uttered by some philosopher. - Cicero

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Re: Should Governments regulate fraudulent religions?

Post by Gnostic Bishop » Sun Mar 18, 2018 8:20 pm

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:
Gnostic Bishop wrote:
Angel wrote:Not to sound like a troll but isn't the gov'
being run by fraudulent religions? Lol
No. It is an empty declaration that almost all those in politics have to make in order to escape the howl of the masses. Once you declare your belief in god, you are free thereafter to do anything you wish with rarely any consequence at all unless there are pictures.
Seriously?

Do you think that your politicians are brave enough to put the win they crave in the next election in jeopardy.

Not too damn likely. Liars try to stay try to their lies.

Then again, you guys go through politicians than flies on {!#%@} so I am sure the odd one might break the mold.

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DL

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Re: Should Governments regulate fraudulent religions?

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Sun Mar 18, 2018 8:41 pm

Trump.
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Re: Should Governments regulate fraudulent religions?

Post by Gnostic Bishop » Sun Mar 18, 2018 8:46 pm

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:Trump.
Seeing how his right wing fundamental base will follow him anywhere, regardless of what he says and does, you might have a point that he might be the only guy with enough balls to put religions where they belong.

Deep down I doubt it though. His hands and feet are way too small for that.

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DL

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Re: Should Governments regulate fraudulent religions?

Post by Matthew Ellard » Sun Mar 18, 2018 9:24 pm

Angel wrote:Not to sound like a troll but isn't the gov' being run by fraudulent religions?
Matthew Ellard wrote:No and no one has ever claimed that.
OlegTheBatty wrote:Maybe not precisely, but it is certainly true that religious fraudsters have far more political capital than mere pissants. I think one could make a very good case defending the proposition that, in the US at least, declaring religious affiliation is a political declaration.
I think there is a better way at looking at it. If you have two political parties trying to win the election, they set out policies designed to not conflict with the largest number of sub demographics. Although they will have alternative narrow specific policy targets (lower tax + less police) (more tax + more police) the rest of both their campaign will be avoiding scaring off religious people, conservative people, gun owners etc etc, in the same way.

I think it is by observing what issues that always get the same lip service by both parties that indicates what they aren't going to fight against each other about. I think religion is one of those issues.

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Re: Should Governments regulate fraudulent religions?

Post by Matthew Ellard » Sun Mar 18, 2018 9:39 pm

Gnostic Bishop wrote: The crooks ain't just confined to religions. Here are a few more crooks:

Rank Charity name... Total raised by solicitors ...Paid to solicitors ... % spent on direct cash aid

This is more interesting as we have the same scandals, concerning charities, in Australia. In theory, in Australia, a charity has to set out who its beneficiaries are and then get independently audited each year to remain registered.

It seems to me that that the percentage of gross donations raised versus direct benefit received by the designated beneficiaries must be declared on all individual charity advertising. If less that 35% of gross revenue goes to the beneficiaries, then the charity is de-registered.

In Australia to the total amount donated to charities as cash is about 600,000,000 a year. Some charities pass on about 70% of gross donations raised to beneficiaries. Most pass on about 40%. Therefore if we can eliminate the "bad performers" we can increase whats going to the beneficiaries, which is the whole idea of charity.

I was very angry concerning the Shane Warne Foundation Charity. Shane Warne was a famous Australian cricketer. He raised millions to put on celebrity events, where famous cricketers had elegant dinners while being entertained by famous celebrities. Not one cent went to the nominated beneficiaries. He was forced to close the charity.


Shane Warne shuts charity to avoid potential deregistration
https://www.smh.com.au/national/shane-w ... tpn7z.html


.

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Re: Should Governments regulate fraudulent religions?

Post by Matthew Ellard » Sun Mar 18, 2018 9:46 pm

[quote="Gnostic Bishop"] Rank Charity name... Total raised by solicitors ...Paid to solicitors ... % spent on direct cash aid

To be frank, when I had a charity TV show, I would only proceed after meeting with the charity's solicitors. This was pragmatic. There is no point raising money for a charity, that forgot to get public liability insurance or didn't have employment agreements with its workers. One hiccup could lose all the money raised.

If you look at the very big charities, they normally have an external accounting firm and law firm which supplies the above services pro-bono, in exchange for advertising as a co-sponsor.

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Re: Should Governments regulate fraudulent religions?

Post by Cadmusteeth » Sun Mar 18, 2018 9:51 pm

Matthew Ellard wrote:
Rank Charity name... Total raised by solicitors ...Paid to solicitors ... % spent on direct cash aid

This is more interesting as we have the same scandals, concerning charities, in Australia. In theory, in Australia, a charity has to set out who its beneficiaries are and then get independently audited each year to remain registered.

It seems to me that that the percentage of gross donations raised versus direct benefit received by the designated beneficiaries must be declared on all individual charity advertising. If less that 35% of gross revenue goes to the beneficiaries, then the charity is de-registered.

That's a wonderful idea.

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Re: Should Governments regulate fraudulent religions?

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Mon Mar 19, 2018 12:13 am

35%..............? "..♫...Here's one for you ..... and TWO for me....."
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Re: Should Governments regulate fraudulent religions?

Post by Matthew Ellard » Mon Mar 19, 2018 12:23 am

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:35%..............? "..♫...Here's one for you ..... and TWO for me....."
I hate bad rip-off charities.

When Princess Diana died, I had every scam artist attempting to put on charity concerts and ask my clients (bands) to play for free......however the scammers demanded they got paid, because they had to do all the organisation.

When I asked them if they had ever put on a concert before, they would say "no." When I informed them that my firm managed the business side of big outdoor concerts, that asked if I would donate that service for free. When I asked "Well what are you going to do then?" They would claim "We came up with the idea". At this point I would stand up and ask an office junior to escort them out.

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Re: Should Governments regulate fraudulent religions?

Post by KevinLevites » Mon Mar 19, 2018 3:32 am

I have an interesting anecdote about government regulation of religion that seems relevant to this thread.

Being a paramedic was, at times, a strange job that landed me into weird conflicts...which were made all the worse because I have a certian degree of social incompetence from Asperger's syndrome.

I was transporting a patient who was a Wiccan, and her priestess asked to come along in the back of the ambulance. We had protocols which allowed for clergy, so I said: "No problem. Welcome to my ambulance, and please make yourself comfortable," as I showed her where to sit.

She had a hospital clergy badge, which she pinned to her business suit. I situated her and the patient in the ER (just as I would any other clergy), and got reamed out and publically castigated by the Baptist minister because I let a 'satanist' into the ER.

He wrote me up, and I lost a chance at a promotion.

My point in this whole mess is that I shouldn't distinguish between different religions when I do my job.

The minister's point is that there's a difference between clergy and the leader of a dangerous cult, and if I can't tell the difference between a religion and a cult, then I have no common sense. He was also afraid that if other patients saw a pentagram, then they would leave before treatment (out of supertitious fear) and possibly have their condition worsen, or even die.

This was actually a possibility because we have many uneducated patients from third world countries who can be very superstitious, and mistrustful of Western medicine.

I tried to argue that she had a clergy badge, but it was for another hospital...but still within the same corporation that owned the hospital where this happened.

At the time, it never occurred to me to treat the Wiccan priestess as different from any other clergy.

If anyone questions the validity of my story, look up the Wiccan crisis in the U.S. military.

There was a petition and bill in Congress to deny Wiccan soldiers religious freedom.

Their graves (with the pentagram) were defaced and violated in Arlington, and the military, evidentally, had to post armed guards.

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Re: Should Governments regulate fraudulent religions?

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Mon Mar 19, 2018 3:43 am

KL: that is a telling tale of religious freedom, stupidity, religion, powers that be. Its worth near zero: but I admire what you did.

Still, let me quibble. "If" I had known that such equal non-discriminatory treatment would result in losing a promotion (that I wanted)...I would not have done it. Did you "know" that such treatment would be condemned, or was it a question of first impression? Did you "know" that your Corporate Employer did not approve of certain sects/cults? was there a list of same?

........................ all kinds of questions. Nuts. Mostly the same...but we treat some differently.


Know the rules. Make your choices..................enjoy the consequences.
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Re: Should Governments regulate fraudulent religions?

Post by KevinLevites » Mon Mar 19, 2018 3:54 am

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:KL: that is a telling tale of religious freedom, stupidity, religion, powers that be. Its worth near zero: but I admire what you did.

Still, let me quibble. "If" I had known that such equal non-discriminatory treatment would result in losing a promotion (that I wanted)...I would not have done it. Did you "know" that such treatment would be condemned, or was it a question of first impression? Did you "know" that your Corporate Employer did not approve of certain sects/cults? was there a list of same?



........................ all kinds of questions. Nuts. Mostly the same...but we treat some differently.


Know the rules. Make your choices..................enjoy the consequences.

We didn't have an approved list. I was castigated because I, supposedly, "didn't have common sense" and created the problem just to create it.

It's my Asperger's. At the time, it never occurred to me to treat the Wiccan priestess any different...especially because she had a clergy badge (albiet from a different hospital). We are drilled over and over again about being nonjudgemental, which I agree with.

I felt it very important to be nondiscriminatory, because you can fire your doctor, you can fire your nurse, you can fire your psychologist...but you generally can't fire your paramedic.

There was also a belief at the time that infants were being sacrificed to satan in daycare centers, and that people were giving birth soley to slaughter their children on alters to satan.

From what I understand, Geraldo Rivera created a lot of this.

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Re: Should Governments regulate fraudulent religions?

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Mon Mar 19, 2018 4:15 am

I can see the trap: not realizing the general opinion that Satanism is not a religion, but rather the rejection of religion. I wonder when the notion that Satanism "is" a religion took hold?........before or after the Supreme Court giving its stamp of label?

...............it is the patient on the guerney that can't make a choice/lie about what they are doing. Who can get a free ride to the hospital is a different issue.

...I would have thought having a clergy badge would have been a free pass. Just goes to show how deep a prejudice will run........===>claiming its based on common sense. .//// Ha. ha.!!!!!
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Re: Should Governments regulate fraudulent religions?

Post by Gnostic Bishop » Mon Mar 19, 2018 7:01 pm

Matthew Ellard wrote:
Gnostic Bishop wrote: The crooks ain't just confined to religions. Here are a few more crooks:

Rank Charity name... Total raised by solicitors ...Paid to solicitors ... % spent on direct cash aid

This is more interesting as we have the same scandals, concerning charities, in Australia. In theory, in Australia, a charity has to set out who its beneficiaries are and then get independently audited each year to remain registered.

It seems to me that that the percentage of gross donations raised versus direct benefit received by the designated beneficiaries must be declared on all individual charity advertising. If less that 35% of gross revenue goes to the beneficiaries, then the charity is de-registered.

In Australia to the total amount donated to charities as cash is about 600,000,000 a year. Some charities pass on about 70% of gross donations raised to beneficiaries. Most pass on about 40%. Therefore if we can eliminate the "bad performers" we can increase whats going to the beneficiaries, which is the whole idea of charity.

I was very angry concerning the Shane Warne Foundation Charity. Shane Warne was a famous Australian cricketer. He raised millions to put on celebrity events, where famous cricketers had elegant dinners while being entertained by famous celebrities. Not one cent went to the nominated beneficiaries. He was forced to close the charity.


Shane Warne shuts charity to avoid potential deregistration
https://www.smh.com.au/national/shane-w ... tpn7z.html


.
Your monitoring system seems to be a lot better than on this side of the pond.

We should be so civilized and thorough in weeding out our fraudsters so that the good ones get more action.

That is what I would like to see in our religions. Get rid of the garbage so that the better ones can shine.

Regards
DL

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Re: Should Governments regulate fraudulent religions?

Post by Gnostic Bishop » Mon Mar 19, 2018 7:10 pm

KevinLevites wrote:I have an interesting anecdote about government regulation of religion that seems relevant to this thread.

Being a paramedic was, at times, a strange job that landed me into weird conflicts...which were made all the worse because I have a certian degree of social incompetence from Asperger's syndrome.

I was transporting a patient who was a Wiccan, and her priestess asked to come along in the back of the ambulance. We had protocols which allowed for clergy, so I said: "No problem. Welcome to my ambulance, and please make yourself comfortable," as I showed her where to sit.

She had a hospital clergy badge, which she pinned to her business suit. I situated her and the patient in the ER (just as I would any other clergy), and got reamed out and publically castigated by the Baptist minister because I let a 'satanist' into the ER.

He wrote me up, and I lost a chance at a promotion.

My point in this whole mess is that I shouldn't distinguish between different religions when I do my job.

The minister's point is that there's a difference between clergy and the leader of a dangerous cult, and if I can't tell the difference between a religion and a cult, then I have no common sense. He was also afraid that if other patients saw a pentagram, then they would leave before treatment (out of supertitious fear) and possibly have their condition worsen, or even die.

This was actually a possibility because we have many uneducated patients from third world countries who can be very superstitious, and mistrustful of Western medicine.

I tried to argue that she had a clergy badge, but it was for another hospital...but still within the same corporation that owned the hospital where this happened.

At the time, it never occurred to me to treat the Wiccan priestess as different from any other clergy.

If anyone questions the validity of my story, look up the Wiccan crisis in the U.S. military.

There was a petition and bill in Congress to deny Wiccan soldiers religious freedom.

Their graves (with the pentagram) were defaced and violated in Arlington, and the military, evidentally, had to post armed guards.
Thanks for showing us some of the stupidity associated with beliefs.

That Baptist minister deserves a fist to the mouth. Bastard.

The French are on the right tract, it seems, in trying to rid their secular state of all public outward signs of religiosity.
They have taken the comments Jesus preached of closeting ones self in private to pray so as to eliminate much of what you had to suffer.

Regards
DL

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Re: Should Governments regulate fraudulent religions?

Post by OlegTheBatty » Mon Mar 19, 2018 7:32 pm

Canada is headed in the same direction. Churches which wish to get government subsidies for student summer employment have to adhere to the Charter of Rights & Freedoms, and therefore can't discriminate against LGBTQETC. Of course, the religious right is getting their knickers in a twist.

A recent Supreme Court ruling states that it is ok for you to consider something sacred, but you do not have the right to demand that anyone else respects that sacredness.
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Re: Should Governments regulate fraudulent religions?

Post by Gnostic Bishop » Mon Mar 19, 2018 7:36 pm

OlegTheBatty wrote:Canada is headed in the same direction. Churches which wish to get government subsidies for student summer employment have to adhere to the Charter of Rights & Freedoms, and therefore can't discriminate against LGBTQETC. Of course, the religious right is getting their knickers in a twist.

A recent Supreme Court ruling states that it is ok for you to consider something sacred, but you do not have the right to demand that anyone else respects that sacredness.
An intelligent decision.

It sure beats what the Muslims tried to do at the U.N.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=p ... TdKxCz2FIQ

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DL

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Re: Should Governments regulate fraudulent religions?

Post by OlegTheBatty » Mon Mar 19, 2018 7:42 pm

Gnostic Bishop wrote:
OlegTheBatty wrote:Canada is headed in the same direction. Churches which wish to get government subsidies for student summer employment have to adhere to the Charter of Rights & Freedoms, and therefore can't discriminate against LGBTQETC. Of course, the religious right is getting their knickers in a twist.

A recent Supreme Court ruling states that it is ok for you to consider something sacred, but you do not have the right to demand that anyone else respects that sacredness.
An intelligent decision.

It sure beats what the Muslims tried to do at the U.N.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=p ... TdKxCz2FIQ

Regards
DL
I found it interesting at the time, that the Canadian Muslim Congress (the largest Muslim political org here) lobbied against that, and in favour of freedom of speech.
. . . with the satisfied air of a man who thinks he has an idea of his own because he has commented on the idea of another . . . - Alexandre Dumas 'The Count of Monte Cristo"

There is no statement so absurd that it has not been uttered by some philosopher. - Cicero

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Re: Should Governments regulate fraudulent religions?

Post by Gnostic Bishop » Mon Mar 19, 2018 7:54 pm

OlegTheBatty wrote:
Gnostic Bishop wrote:
OlegTheBatty wrote:Canada is headed in the same direction. Churches which wish to get government subsidies for student summer employment have to adhere to the Charter of Rights & Freedoms, and therefore can't discriminate against LGBTQETC. Of course, the religious right is getting their knickers in a twist.

A recent Supreme Court ruling states that it is ok for you to consider something sacred, but you do not have the right to demand that anyone else respects that sacredness.
An intelligent decision.

It sure beats what the Muslims tried to do at the U.N.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=p ... TdKxCz2FIQ

Regards
DL
I found it interesting at the time, that the Canadian Muslim Congress (the largest Muslim political org here) lobbied against that, and in favour of freedom of speech.
We must have the more liberal Muslim sects here. Nice to hear, although my new Muslim neighbor is trying to convert me.

Then again, we ruled against Sharia quite a while ago now and perhaps they remembered that.

https://www.nfb.ca/film/sharia_in_canada_part_1/

This one is more general.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5LNm9Ns5IbY

Regards
DL

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Re: Should Governments regulate fraudulent religions?

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Tue Mar 20, 2018 4:09 am

Time to repeat an old thought of mine: "Religion" is that belief system an individual has IN PRIVATE. iow: you can think as you wish, perform privately as you wish, eg: pray or not pray, sacrifice goats, think chanting a mantra 5 times a day is the minimum observance of what you believe.....etc.

But....what you DO in PUBLIC: is politics.

Lots of what gets called religious prejudice is actually politics.

.............................mind the gap.
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Re: Should Governments regulate fraudulent religions?

Post by Gnostic Bishop » Tue Mar 20, 2018 10:22 pm

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:Time to repeat an old thought of mine: "Religion" is that belief system an individual has IN PRIVATE. iow: you can think as you wish, perform privately as you wish, eg: pray or not pray, sacrifice goats, think chanting a mantra 5 times a day is the minimum observance of what you believe.....etc.

But....what you DO in PUBLIC: is politics.

Lots of what gets called religious prejudice is actually politics.

.............................mind the gap.
I too think that religiosity and belief should be done in private.

Jesus beat us to that conclusion by 2,000 years.

It is a shame that Christians do not follow their Christ's advise. Then again, if Christians followed what the bible says in terms of law and justice, we would have to shoot them all out of self defence.

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DL

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Re: Should Governments regulate fraudulent religions?

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Tue Mar 20, 2018 11:47 pm

How did Jesus do that? Preaching and directing in public as he did?
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Re: Should Governments regulate fraudulent religions?

Post by Poodle » Wed Mar 21, 2018 12:26 am

Gnostic Bishop wrote:[... Jesus beat us to that conclusion by 2,000 years ...
Yep - I too would like to hear what your source is for that, GB.