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7 Reasons to Stop Believing in Hell

Posted: Sat Oct 28, 2017 7:33 am
by Phoenix76
Interesting article I came across on the following site:

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/godlessind ... content=44

Wow, that's one "Hell" of a link title.

As you would know, I'm an atheist and so do not belief in god, jesus, hell, satan and things that go bump in the night. But it is always good to read someone else's views, rather than just having a closed mind on a subject. One interesting reason to not believe in hell, is that the punishment does not fit the crime, so to say.

A murderer etc gets say 15 years, or even life, but a sinner, or should I say, a mortal sinner, gets eternity for doing something vague such as a mortal sin, as laid down by some man made church. What the hell is a mortal sin? (pun intended). I don't know, but maybe it is when we break one of the 10 commandments handed down to Moses. Another one of those wonderful fairy tales in the "Good Books"!

So that could be "Thou shalt not covet thy neighbors wife." This one is not adultery, that's another of the 10, this one is simply looking at your neighbors wife and thinking, "Geez I would love to get her into bed". Perhaps this is another version of the "Thought Police. The line of a song comes to mind, "You can't go to gaol for what you are thinking."

Crikey, if we all went to gaol for what we were thinking, heaven, wherever that is, would be a very lonely place. Anyway, the article published by patheos.com is certainly worth the read, not too long, for anyone interested in the subject.

Re: 7 Reasons to Stop Believing in Hell

Posted: Sat Oct 28, 2017 7:39 am
by Gord
Phoenix76 wrote:So that could be "Thou shalt not covet thy neighbors wife." This one is not adultery, that's another of the 10, this one is simply looking at your neighbors wife and thinking, "Geez I would love to get her into bed".

That's not all wives are good for. You can't look at your neighbours wife and think, "I would love to get her into the kitchen" or "I would love to get her into the classroom" or "I would love to get her onto my soccer team" either.

No wonder men want women to wear burqas! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haredi_burqa_sect

Re: 7 Reasons to Stop Believing in Hell

Posted: Sat Oct 28, 2017 7:51 am
by Phoenix76
Love it Gord :lol:

But all those things you mention aren't mortal sins, at least not that I know of. I've long had the belief that anything to do with sex, unless it is with your wife, in the dark, and purely for the reason of procreation, will damn you to eternal hell. Thing is though, with all these so called mortal sins, if you go to your priest and confess, and do penance, you will be absolved of your sins.

So, does that mean that if you commit a mortal sin, but die before you confess to your priest, then bad luck buddy, you are going to hell?

Re: 7 Reasons to Stop Believing in Hell

Posted: Sat Oct 28, 2017 12:04 pm
by Gawdzilla Sama
Hell is over rated.

Re: 7 Reasons to Stop Believing in Hell

Posted: Sat Oct 28, 2017 2:14 pm
by ElectricMonk
The basic flaw is that for a finite action you get punished / rewarded for an infinite amount of time:

regardless of how horrific / wonderful your deeds have been, they pale to insignificance when stretched to eternity. After an infinite amount of time, there can be no difference between the worthiness of Stalin vs. the nicest person ever.

Re: 7 Reasons to Stop Believing in Hell

Posted: Sun Oct 29, 2017 10:04 am
by Phoenix76
Geez EM, it's just about bedtime on this side of the Earth.

And that means I've had a few beers, and whilst I can still think clearly, sort of, I got a headache reading that. Perhaps too deep this time of night.

Re: 7 Reasons to Stop Believing in Hell

Posted: Sun Apr 01, 2018 9:14 pm
by KevinLevites
I don't believe in Hell...if only for the reason that I don't believe that a perfectionistic God would create such an imperfect world and expect us to adhere to perfect standards...or else.

The whole idea is, on the surface, nonsensical and self-contradictory.

Even so, the Universe is what it is, and isn't required to adhere to our notions of common sense. Quantum mechanics tells us this.

So, either Hell exists or it doesn't. If it does, everything is so contradictory to reason that a reasonable person will throw the idea out. If it doesn't exist, then there's nothing to worry about post-mortem.

There is the idea that Hell exists to force people to do good out of fear of punishment, but what about the idea of doing good* just for it's own sake? Why is faith in an Afterlife necessary when we can simply skip a step and have faith that doing good* for its own sake is all that's important?

* I don't define "good" since that could be the subject for a whole book, so I define it by appealing to a person's sense of right and wrong, or, perhaps, the moral compass.

Re: 7 Reasons to Stop Believing in Hell

Posted: Mon Apr 02, 2018 6:06 pm
by Monster
Gord wrote:No wonder men want women to wear burqas! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haredi_burqa_sect

The burqa, and this "frumka", are sickening.

Re: 7 Reasons to Stop Believing in Hell

Posted: Mon Apr 02, 2018 11:25 pm
by bobbo_the_Pragmatist
Yes, "disproportionality" or the severity of what you do should be matched to the punishment. With Hell being forever, I have posted at times that if Hell exists as described (even if just the absence of god) then "even Hitler should be in Heaven." I mean: if that was not what God wanted, why did he create a universe knowing a billion years before he did so every sparrow that Hitler would see in his life time?

The god we have created is just like that Rock that God can't lift.

Re: 7 Reasons to Stop Believing in Hell

Posted: Mon Apr 02, 2018 11:51 pm
by Gord
I know a few people who could benefit from wearing a burqa.

Trump could benefit from wearing one and having a second one stuffed in his mouth, for instance.

Re: 7 Reasons to Stop Believing in Hell

Posted: Tue Apr 03, 2018 1:43 am
by Aztexan
If my mind was able to continue after my body dies, that would be hell. But no for too long.
If my body was able to continue after my mind dies, that would be hell. But I have a contingency plan. Either way, I'm not afraid of the traditional biblical hell. That's just silly.

Re: 7 Reasons to Stop Believing in Hell

Posted: Tue Apr 03, 2018 2:33 am
by bobbo_the_Pragmatist
Aztexan wrote:If my mind was able to continue after my body dies, that would be hell. But no for too long..

....but, but, but===>Hell is Forever Man! FOREVER. Thats why its disproportionate. ..OR==>which god is it you don't believe in?==aka: what version of Hell?

Re: 7 Reasons to Stop Believing in Hell

Posted: Tue Apr 03, 2018 4:44 am
by Aztexan
There's a version of hell where you aren't allowed to post your opinions on Every. Single. Thread., bobbo. Where there is a waiting period of an indeterminate number of days set up specifically for you to wait before you chime in and offer your 2 cents. It exists but I don't believe in it. :P

Re: 7 Reasons to Stop Believing in Hell

Posted: Tue Apr 03, 2018 7:35 am
by bobbo_the_Pragmatist
Ha, ha....yes....I'm currently not allowed to post in the Climate Subforum. I feel a sense of relief....as I cannot offer anything in response there that has not been said 5 times already. I assume the ban is not forever, some kind of contrition if not a simple request to rejoin is needed? aka: much more lenient than the hell you propose?

But, if you want to post and not have any response.....the Holocaust Denial subforum might be your ticket?

Re: 7 Reasons to Stop Believing in Hell

Posted: Tue Apr 03, 2018 10:26 am
by KevinLevites
Gord wrote:I know a few people who could benefit from wearing a burqa.

Trump could benefit from wearing one and having a second one stuffed in his mouth, for instance.

Yes, but one minor criticism:

You didn't mention the duct tape.

Even though I have a wide conservative streak in me, I can't stand Trump. I think he is, quite probably, the worst president that we've ever had.

Re: 7 Reasons to Stop Believing in Hell

Posted: Tue Apr 03, 2018 1:02 pm
by OutOfBreath
KevinLevites wrote:Even though I have a wide conservative streak in me, I can't stand Trump. I think he is, quite probably, the worst president that we've ever had.

Seeing as there's nothing conservative about Trump, that's the sane reaction.

Peace
Dan

Re: 7 Reasons to Stop Believing in Hell

Posted: Tue Apr 03, 2018 3:41 pm
by Angel
Gawdzilla Sama wrote:Hell is over rated.


Comedy vs tragedy
I know a guy that literally goes to hell
every time he closes his eyes ~ to pay for
his sins ~ yet he won't admit he has sins.
He screams so loud that he wakes himself up.
What can I do to help him? Nothing. He will not
listen to me. I'm only an uneducated girl.
Useless ~ as he puts it. Go figure....
Do I laugh or cry?
You all go vote for each person on the planet
to see who I should laugh at/for and who I should cry at/for. After all~
Con Grad *U* La Tions
You won the human race.
They all belong to you now.
You own their asses. Kok lol so you
actually do own their asses but good luck dealing with them. God couldn't get very far so I don't know what you think you can do with them. I will just sit back and be entertained by you now. ROFLMAO.....
Goodbye
Xo.oX<3

Re: 7 Reasons to Stop Believing in Hell

Posted: Tue Apr 03, 2018 4:05 pm
by Gawdzilla Sama
Meth or heroin?

Re: 7 Reasons to Stop Believing in Hell

Posted: Tue Apr 03, 2018 5:06 pm
by Monster
Angel wrote:
Gawdzilla Sama wrote:Hell is over rated.


Comedy vs tragedy
I know a guy that literally goes to hell
every time he closes his eyes ~ to pay for
his sins ~ yet he won't admit he has sins.
He screams so loud that he wakes himself up.
What can I do to help him? Nothing. He will not
listen to me. I'm only an uneducated girl.
Useless ~ as he puts it. Go figure....
Do I laugh or cry?
You all go vote for each person on the planet
to see who I should laugh at/for and who I should cry at/for. After all~
Con Grad *U* La Tions
You won the human race.
They all belong to you now.
You own their asses. Kok lol so you
actually do own their asses but good luck dealing with them. God couldn't get very far so I don't know what you think you can do with them. I will just sit back and be entertained by you now. ROFLMAO.....
Goodbye
Xo.oX<3

?

Re: 7 Reasons to Stop Believing in Hell

Posted: Tue Apr 03, 2018 6:57 pm
by Aztexan
Apparently I or someone, perhaps the reader, won the human race and own some asses. I feel honored.

Re: 7 Reasons to Stop Believing in Hell

Posted: Sun Apr 08, 2018 2:56 pm
by Angel
Aztexan wrote:Apparently I or someone, perhaps the reader, won the human race and own some asses. I feel honored.


Go figure...
Who won...
Those who think they are God/good....
They can have my cup.... well some of it lol
They get anybody 55 yrs old and older.
I have no time for them and it's their
mess that the children are paying for soooo~
They can rule each other and keep sooooo
busy ~ the children will be free of them.
<3 :D

Re: 7 Reasons to Stop Believing in Hell

Posted: Sun Apr 08, 2018 3:36 pm
by Gawdzilla Sama
Pity the idiots will get so much of the benefits.

Re: 7 Reasons to Stop Believing in Hell

Posted: Thu Apr 12, 2018 3:34 pm
by Angel
Gawdzilla Sama wrote:Pity the idiots will get so much of the benefits.


Some shouldn't claim to be so
intelligent when jou know
there not. They too might get it.

Re: 7 Reasons to Stop Believing in Hell

Posted: Thu Apr 12, 2018 3:58 pm
by Gawdzilla Sama
Angel wrote:
Gawdzilla Sama wrote:Pity the idiots will get so much of the benefits.


Some shouldn't claim to be so
intelligent when jou know
there not. They too might get it.

You would be wise to avoid such claims then.

Re: 7 Reasons to Stop Believing in Hell

Posted: Sat Apr 14, 2018 8:24 am
by Dubious
Gord wrote:No wonder men want women to wear burqas! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haredi_burqa_sect


...reminds me of the 3rd ghost in Dickens A Christmas Carol.

Image

Re: 7 Reasons to Stop Believing in Hell

Posted: Sat Apr 14, 2018 10:47 am
by Gawdzilla Sama
Cross dressing would be futile.

Re: 7 Reasons to Stop Believing in Hell

Posted: Sun May 06, 2018 12:55 am
by Lance Kennedy
All the best people go to hell. Well, all the interesting ones anyway. Go to heaven and be bored for eternity. Hell will not be boring.

Re: 7 Reasons to Stop Believing in Hell

Posted: Sun May 06, 2018 1:07 am
by bobbo_the_Pragmatist
Having any kind of existence for eternity is rather childish. Even worse when extended to before time began?

Gibberish. ................. and yet............. the motivating force behind most people.

Clears up any doubt about the competency of our human species. Yes: we are all gonna die.... by our own hand. The eternity will be of the nullity/void/...nothing. Just as it should be.

Re: 7 Reasons to Stop Believing in Hell

Posted: Sun May 06, 2018 1:41 am
by Gord
Angel wrote:
Gawdzilla Sama wrote:Pity the idiots will get so much of the benefits.

Some shouldn't claim to be so
intelligent when jou know
there not. They too might get it.

you and they're

probably

Re: 7 Reasons to Stop Believing in Hell

Posted: Tue May 22, 2018 11:45 pm
by SEG
Here's a good test for hell believers, a bit like the Milgram experiment
Imagine that police have caught the person that has raped and murdered your wife and children. He is placed in a cell and you are allowed to shock him enough to cause severe pain, but not enough to kill him. You can do this daily if you wish with no consequences anonymously. How long would you do it for? A week? A month? A year?

Hell is supposed to be much worse than this, you could go to hell for eternity for simply uttering the "unforgivable sin" of blasphemy against the Holy Spirit. See Wiki:

One eternal or unforgivable sin (blasphemy against the Holy Spirit) is specified in several passages of the Synoptic Gospels, including Mark 3:28-29, Matthew 12:31-32, and Luke 12:10.

In Roman Catholic teaching there are six sins that blaspheme against the Holy Spirit. They are: 1. Despair (believing that one's evil is beyond God's forgiveness); 2. Presumption (glory without merit, that is, hope of salvation without keeping the Commandments, or expectation of pardon for sin without repentance); 3. Envying the goodness of another (sadness or repining at another's growth in virtue and perfection); 4. Obstinacy in sin (willful persisting in wickedness, and running on from sin to sin, after sufficient instructions and admonition); 5. Final impenitence (to die without either confession or contrition for our sins), and 6. Impugning the known truth (to argue against known points of faith, and this includes misrepresenting parts or all of the Christian faith to make it seem undesirable).

Re: 7 Reasons to Stop Believing in Hell

Posted: Mon Jul 09, 2018 2:10 pm
by Angel
Gord wrote:
Angel wrote:
Gawdzilla Sama wrote:Pity the idiots will get so much of the benefits.

Some shouldn't claim to be so
intelligent when jou know
there not. They too might get it.

you and they're

probably


I make no claims.
I have nothing to claim.
Claims are baggage.
I has no baggage.
I has no things.
I am poor.
I am.
God? He's around somewhere. LoL

Re: 7 Reasons to Stop Believing in Hell

Posted: Mon Jul 09, 2018 3:07 pm
by Gawdzilla Sama
Oh, you're arrogant enough for six.

Re: 7 Reasons to Stop Believing in Hell

Posted: Mon Jul 09, 2018 9:28 pm
by Gord
Angel wrote:I make no claims.
I have nothing to claim.
Claims are baggage.
I has no baggage.
I has no things.
I am poor.
I am.
God? He's around somewhere. LoL

Y'know every one of those statements is a claim, right?

Re: 7 Reasons to Stop Believing in Hell

Posted: Tue Jul 10, 2018 4:32 am
by Aztexan
Your definitions don't define me!

Re: 7 Reasons to Stop Believing in Hell

Posted: Tue Jul 10, 2018 7:26 am
by Poodle
You're Spartacus, aren't you?

Re: 7 Reasons to Stop Believing in Hell

Posted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 2:27 am
by Aztexan
No. I'm Spartacus

Re: 7 Reasons to Stop Believing in Hell

Posted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 8:32 pm
by Gord
Have you tried not being a Spartacus?

Re: 7 Reasons to Stop Believing in Hell

Posted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 11:50 pm
by Matthew Ellard
Angel wrote: God? He's around somewhere. LoL


Who let you out of the asylum?

Are you really going to come back here and post your stupid poems about god in every thread again?

Re: 7 Reasons to Stop Believing in Hell

Posted: Thu Sep 06, 2018 1:18 pm
by Angel
Matthew Ellard wrote:
Angel wrote: God? He's around somewhere. LoL


Who let you out of the asylum?

Are you really going to come back here and post your stupid poems about god in every thread again?


My big brother ~ Jeffrey Alexander C Knight. <3

Yes <3
And a whole lot more Mat. LoL

Re: 7 Reasons to Stop Believing in Hell

Posted: Thu Sep 06, 2018 11:59 pm
by Matthew Ellard
Matthew Ellard wrote: Are you really going to come back here and post your stupid poems about god in every thread again?
Angel wrote:Yes <3 And a whole lot more Mat. LoL


So why shouldn't I simply request you get banned, as you are a Christian, admitting you are simply spamming a science forum with your awful poems about god?

Don't you have some Christian friends you can spam instead? Why do you hate us so much?