When you reach the age of reason, will you reject supernatural religion?

General discussion on the subject of religion, losing religion, and having no religion to lose...
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Re: When you reach the age of reason, will you reject supernatural religion?

Postby Flash » Thu Jun 15, 2017 4:57 am

Gnostic Bishop wrote:
You say Gnostic Christians have a deity. What is the name of that deity?

Nomad?

Gnostic Bishop wrote:
I do think I do ok in my writing for a poorly educated Frenchman.

You are from La Belle Province too? it's an exodus. I met some poorly educated Frenchmen as far as Alberta. :mrgreen:
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Re: When you reach the age of reason, will you reject supernatural religion?

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Thu Jun 15, 2017 5:37 am

EVERY Frenchman, worse their girl friends, I have met has been poorly educated. Maybe its where I go and whom I am attracted to. I remember discussing impressionist art in a cafe near the Louvre.... and they didn't know {!#%@}. Should have gone to the Left Bank?
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Re: When you reach the age of reason, will you reject supernatural religion?

Postby TJrandom » Thu Jun 15, 2017 5:56 am

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:EVERY Frenchman, worse their girl friends, I have met has been poorly educated. Maybe its where I go and whom I am attracted to. I remember discussing impressionist art in a cafe near the Louvre.... and they didn't know {!#%@}. Should have gone to the Left Bank?


You`ve been singing that song - Friends in Low Places? ;)

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Re: When you reach the age of reason, will you reject supernatural religion?

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Thu Jun 15, 2017 5:57 am

Well..... the goats in Provence like beer.
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Re: When you reach the age of reason, will you reject supernatural religion?

Postby Poodle » Thu Jun 15, 2017 6:17 am

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:... Maybe its where I go and whom I am attracted to ...

... to whom I am attracted.
YAY!!!!!! I beat Gord! :yahoo:

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Re: When you reach the age of reason, will you reject supernatural religion?

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Thu Jun 15, 2017 6:26 am

I truncated "to whom" following my rule of fewest key strokes. Whom the standard when the object of a preposition?

Have I been wrong lo these many years?

///////////////OH!===that is your complaint, dropping the "to."

Well.........I'm with Jo........creating my own grammar as well as spelling.

Do you leave all the low lying "its" to Gord?
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Re: When you reach the age of reason, will you reject supernatural religion?

Postby Poodle » Thu Jun 15, 2017 6:44 am

It's the time zones - Gord picks 'em all off before I wake up.

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Re: When you reach the age of reason, will you reject supernatural religion?

Postby TJrandom » Thu Jun 15, 2017 6:46 am

Poodle wrote:It's the time zones - Gord picks 'em all off before I wake up.


Naw... you just get up later than Gord. ;)

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Re: When you reach the age of reason, will you reject supernatural religion?

Postby Gord » Thu Jun 15, 2017 11:01 am

I wasn't gonna say nuthin'.
"Knowledge grows through infinite timelessness" -- the random fictional Deepak Chopra quote site
"You are also taking my words out of context." -- Justin
"Nullius in verba" -- The Royal Society ["take nobody's word for it"]
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Re: When you reach the age of reason, will you reject supernatural religion?

Postby Gnostic Bishop » Thu Jun 15, 2017 12:42 pm

TJrandom wrote:
Gnostic Bishop wrote: ... What is the name of that deity?


You don`t know? Yikes! Wiki will help you.... :mrgreen:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gnosticism#Highest_God


Correct. I do not know, which is exactly what that article says as it says that God cannot be defined or named.

You have looked at our myth, that was written to put against the Christian myth before Christianity became an idol worshiping cult.

Try looking at we really believe.

Here is one of our sayings. Tell me who a Gnostic Christian will call God after you give it some thought.

Gnostic Christian Jesus said, "If those who attract you say, 'See, the Kingdom is in the sky,' then the birds of the sky will precede you.
If they say to you, 'It is under the earth,' then the fish of the sea will precede you.
Rather, the Kingdom of God is inside of you, and it is outside of you.
[Those who] become acquainted with [themselves] will find it; [and when you] become acquainted with yourselves, [you will understand that] it is you who are the sons of the living Father.
But if you will not know yourselves, you dwell in poverty and it is you who are that poverty."

Monad would be a sign of poverty and poor thinking.

See who we think is God in this link.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=alRNbes ... r_embedded

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Re: When you reach the age of reason, will you reject supernatural religion?

Postby Gnostic Bishop » Thu Jun 15, 2017 12:49 pm

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:Thanks Tj---I am under read in all things Religious....but I did think Gnosticism was akin to spiritualism without a god head. Like everything else, I assume it varies from one sect to another, one true believer to another?


Indeed. One can be a Gnostic to any system of thought be it political or religious.

As a Gnostic Christian, I use the Christian tradition which, as that link above shows, call the supreme God I am.

To a Gnostic of all descriptions, any God or tradition, political or religious is always subservient to our thinking if we happen to think it can be improved. Even if we were to find an ideal, we would take the good from it, raise the bar of expectation and seek an even better ideal.

To not do so would make us idol worshipers like Christians and Muslims and we all know how much damage to society they have gifted us with. Basically 5,000 years of war.

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Re: When you reach the age of reason, will you reject supernatural religion?

Postby Gnostic Bishop » Thu Jun 15, 2017 12:56 pm

LunaNik wrote:[q since you folks consider the universe to be flawed.


I will just deal with this. I did put some information above that you might read.

Gnostic Christian Jesus said, "If those who attract you say, 'See, the Kingdom is in the sky,' then the birds of the sky will precede you.
If they say to you, 'It is under the earth,' then the fish of the sea will precede you.
Rather, the Kingdom of God is inside of you, and it is outside of you.
[Those who] become acquainted with [themselves] will find it; [and when you] become acquainted with yourselves, [you will understand that] it is you who are the sons of the living Father.
But if you will not know yourselves, you dwell in poverty and it is you who are that poverty."

We, as you can read, would not think God's kingdom to be flawed. We, as always, live in the best of all possible worlds, given all the conditions that brought us to this and all past points in time.

Try looking at real Gnostic Christian beliefs and not what the winners of the God wars said after trying to decimate us and burning our scriptures. They have lied quite a bit when writing the history most are reading.

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DL

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Re: When you reach the age of reason, will you reject supernatural religion?

Postby Poodle » Thu Jun 15, 2017 1:01 pm

Gnostic Bishop wrote:... They have lied quite a bit when writing the history most are reading.


That just about defines ALL of history, GB.

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Re: When you reach the age of reason, will you reject supernatural religion?

Postby Gnostic Bishop » Thu Jun 15, 2017 1:02 pm

Flash wrote:Gnostic Bishop wrote:
You say Gnostic Christians have a deity. What is the name of that deity?

Nomad?

Gnostic Bishop wrote:
I do think I do ok in my writing for a poorly educated Frenchman.

You are from La Belle Province too? it's an exodus. I met some poorly educated Frenchmen as far as Alberta. :mrgreen:


My ancestry was from Quebec but I was born in Ontario.

I was born Francais but now I might be more Franglais to the English.

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Re: When you reach the age of reason, will you reject supernatural religion?

Postby Gnostic Bishop » Thu Jun 15, 2017 1:05 pm

Poodle wrote:
Gnostic Bishop wrote:... They have lied quite a bit when writing the history most are reading.


That just about defines ALL of history, GB.


No argument buddy.

As someone said, our reality is a collective hunch.

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Re: When you reach the age of reason, will you reject supernatural religion?

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Thu Jun 15, 2017 3:36 pm

I think History is very accurate on the how and what and when and much of who.

Weak/debatable/hunching on.................why. Ironic, since it is the Why that runs the Universe.
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Re: When you reach the age of reason, will you reject supernatural religion?

Postby Nikki Nyx » Thu Jun 15, 2017 11:52 pm

Gnostic Bishop wrote:Gnostic Christian Jesus said, "If those who attract you say, 'See, the Kingdom is in the sky,' then the birds of the sky will precede you.
If they say to you, 'It is under the earth,' then the fish of the sea will precede you.
Rather, the Kingdom of God is inside of you, and it is outside of you.
[Those who] become acquainted with [themselves] will find it; [and when you] become acquainted with yourselves, [you will understand that] it is you who are the sons of the living Father.
But if you will not know yourselves, you dwell in poverty and it is you who are that poverty."
If those who attracted me said, "See, the Kingdom is in the sky," my attraction would fade faster than an echo in a recording studio. I'd be out the door before they could even get to, "It is under the earth," shooting looks over my shoulder to ensure they weren't following me.
Gnostic Bishop wrote:Try looking at real Gnostic Christian beliefs and not what the winners of the God wars said after trying to decimate us and burning our scriptures. They have lied quite a bit when writing the history most are reading.
What I've read about Gnostic Christianity was written by a Gnostic Bishop (not you).
What are the facts? Again and again and again-what are the facts? Shun wishful thinking, ignore divine revelation, forget what “the stars foretell,” avoid opinion, care not what the neighbors think, never mind the unguessable “verdict of history”--what are the facts, and to how many decimal places? You pilot always into an unknown future; facts are your single clue. Get the facts!
—Lazarus Long, from Time Enough for Love, by Robert A. Heinlein

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Re: When you reach the age of reason, will you reject supernatural religion?

Postby Gnostic Bishop » Thu Jun 15, 2017 11:56 pm

LunaNik wrote:
Gnostic Bishop wrote:Gnostic Christian Jesus said, "If those who attract you say, 'See, the Kingdom is in the sky,' then the birds of the sky will precede you.
If they say to you, 'It is under the earth,' then the fish of the sea will precede you.
Rather, the Kingdom of God is inside of you, and it is outside of you.
[Those who] become acquainted with [themselves] will find it; [and when you] become acquainted with yourselves, [you will understand that] it is you who are the sons of the living Father.
But if you will not know yourselves, you dwell in poverty and it is you who are that poverty."
If those who attracted me said, "See, the Kingdom is in the sky," my attraction would fade faster than an echo in a recording studio. I'd be out the door before they could even get to, "It is under the earth," shooting looks over my shoulder to ensure they weren't following me.
Gnostic Bishop wrote:Try looking at real Gnostic Christian beliefs and not what the winners of the God wars said after trying to decimate us and burning our scriptures. They have lied quite a bit when writing the history most are reading.
What I've read about Gnostic Christianity was written by a Gnostic Bishop (not you).


Which one?

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DL

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Re: When you reach the age of reason, will you reject supernatural religion?

Postby Flash » Fri Jun 16, 2017 12:45 am

Gnostic Bishop wrote:
My ancestry was from Quebec but I was born in Ontario.

I was born Francais but now I might be more Franglais to the English.

Oh! You must be from Timmins or maybe Cochrane, or Timiskaming, eh? ;)

I would like to explain to the multinational representatives of the entire (almost) world present on this forum that Timmins is a Northern Ontario town that literally sits on gold. Population twenty thousand, at one time had five gold mines right within the municipal borders of the town itself.

I think two or three of them are now closed. The gold mining companies took the gold and run leaving behind piles of the arsenic ridden refuse piled up so high they look like mountains. Nobody talks about the sky high cancer rates because those who stay alive there make a very good living.

I used to go there to visit my daughter and her Franglais boyfriend. The boyfriend lost two of his brothers and a young sister to cancer and then the father shot himself in the basement with a shotgun. :shock:
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Re: When you reach the age of reason, will you reject supernatural religion?

Postby Nikki Nyx » Fri Jun 16, 2017 12:56 am

Gnostic Bishop wrote:
LunaNik wrote:What I've read about Gnostic Christianity was written by a Gnostic Bishop (not you).

Which one?

I don't remember his name; I only remember what I read and that I checked the credentials of the author, which is SOP for me.
What are the facts? Again and again and again-what are the facts? Shun wishful thinking, ignore divine revelation, forget what “the stars foretell,” avoid opinion, care not what the neighbors think, never mind the unguessable “verdict of history”--what are the facts, and to how many decimal places? You pilot always into an unknown future; facts are your single clue. Get the facts!
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Re: When you reach the age of reason, will you reject supernatural religion?

Postby Gnostic Bishop » Fri Jun 16, 2017 2:00 pm

Flash wrote:Gnostic Bishop wrote:
My ancestry was from Quebec but I was born in Ontario.

I was born Francais but now I might be more Franglais to the English.

Oh! You must be from Timmins or maybe Cochrane, or Timiskaming, eh? ;)

I would like to explain to the multinational representatives of the entire (almost) world present on this forum that Timmins is a Northern Ontario town that literally sits on gold. Population twenty thousand, at one time had five gold mines right within the municipal borders of the town itself.

I think two or three of them are now closed. The gold mining companies took the gold and run leaving behind piles of the arsenic ridden refuse piled up so high they look like mountains. Nobody talks about the sky high cancer rates because those who stay alive there make a very good living.

I used to go there to visit my daughter and her Franglais boyfriend. The boyfriend lost two of his brothers and a young sister to cancer and then the father shot himself in the basement with a shotgun. :shock:


Close. Draw a line between Sudbury and Timmins, go up it half way, and that bush is where I was born.

If cancer study is a part of what you do, try Elliot Lake, where uranium was mines or any of the coal mining areas.

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Re: When you reach the age of reason, will you reject supernatural religion?

Postby Gnostic Bishop » Fri Jun 16, 2017 2:06 pm

LunaNik wrote:
Gnostic Bishop wrote:
LunaNik wrote:What I've read about Gnostic Christianity was written by a Gnostic Bishop (not you).

Which one?

I don't remember his name; I only remember what I read and that I checked the credentials of the author, which is SOP for me.


Thanks for this.

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Re: When you reach the age of reason, will you reject supernatural religion?

Postby Disciples4Truth » Mon Nov 06, 2017 10:01 pm

Gnostic Bishop wrote:
Poodle wrote:Reaching the age of reason is not the same thing as achieving reason. Even if one achieves reason, there are other reasons (no pun intended) for continuing to participate in religious activity. Some people, Gnostic Bishop, practice atheism or agnosticism in a religious manner.
So the answer is a definite maybe.


If participating in a religion like Christianity and Islam, which have basically developed into intolerant, homophobic and misogynous religions which have grown themselves by the sword instead of good deeds, then what would justify making a believer stay in such a vile and immoral religion?
Regards
DL

It seems you’ve been misinformed. Our Creator is extremely tolerant. He’s put up with much more than I would have personally. Christ said plainly that We’re all sinners so nobody (not even yourself) can speak from a position of true strength. He himself always spoke on behalf of the Father
Even so while this world condemns you and I (trust me they do) even though I’m heterosexual, Christ gave us all a pass through grace if we accepted him and confessed him to another person in our own words.
It’s a misnomer that Christ came to bring peace. He himself said he did not, but rather to bring a sword. Dividing us against one another. Mother against son, Brother against Sister and so on and on so we would put our Creator BEFORE our family. He asked a man burying his own father to let the dead bury the dead. His Father was obviously like yourself, a non believer.
He would be an idiot to waste another minute building up what this world offers when it all passes away so soon. He wants you to live in eternity because he still loves you and he knows very well you continually face deception by the Devil in this lifetime. The devil is very very crafty and rules by fear, despair, anger, resentment and hate.
It’s ironic that the same Christianity you hate you will possibly miss out on because of your hate for it. Yet you project that HATE is a bad thing and it is. But you are not an exception either.
I once was lost but now I’m am found. Literally if you knew me.. you would never know that I suffered from a Crack addiction for almost 3 years. I prayed that my life would end and I had heard others say that but wondered how they got there.
I can say that because I gave Jesus himself a prove it deal. A chance at showing me he was real. I told him I’d believe him but he’d have to show me.
He turned my life around and restored me completely and wholly. You wouldn’t understand because you’ve been too busy resisting the Truth. All you have to do say call his name he’s been with you all along. I can’t prove it but I’ve lived it.
He’ll take you as you are. Sinner and all. Wherever your at it don’t matter. You are the only thing preventing you from acknowledging your Creator.
Your life will gradually get getter. Your finances. They will start to click a little. At first you will take credit for his work but you’ll realize as you grow closer you wang him to get the credit he is due.
Your relationships will begin to improve with your family. You’ll feel happier and move with purpose again. The he will start to show you unbelievable coincidences that you can’t explain. You’ll get a buzz in your ears when you let him in. Literally a buzz.
You’ll know when your saved he’ll show you that too. You’ll never be able to prove it tho
He’s an awesome God and loved you enough to let the Devil Kill his only son to cover your sins. You don’t have to believe me. But don’t disrespect what he has done for countless generations of believers. That’s not only disrespectful as you claim you’ve been treated. You’re practicing the exact same judgement on us believers that you’re always complaining about.
It’s ok I’m a Christian and I don’t judge you or condemn you because I’m a sinner too. I love you brother I hope you give him a chance one day he won’t dissspoint.

This is why faith is the main component in your salvation. Faith means TRUST.

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Re: When you reach the age of reason, will you reject supernatural religion?

Postby Disciples4Truth » Mon Nov 06, 2017 11:09 pm

Gnostic Bishop wrote:
Phoenix76 wrote:[

Yes going through the gestures, it does offer respect to friends and acquaintances, and I believe that is right.


Why shoe respect for religions that do not deserve them? Is that not being hypocritical?

I am working on a new O.P. Please have a quick look at what you are saying you offer respect to and I extrapolate you think we should respect as well.

---------------

Yahweh. Obey like a slave. Allah. Submit like a slave. Do you see a difference?

I find it strange that all-powerful Gods have a need or want of slaves, but if slavery is all that Christians and Muslims aspire to after death, I am sure glad I am a Gnostic Christian and see Jesus as not being of the same ilk as Christian and Muslim slave aspirers. Jesus said he came to serve man but I guess that he is not like his father. Thank God for that. –;)

In the arena of cultural evolution, the secular and humanist West has decided that Jesus wins the God Wars. Christians have gone along with revering the nice (sort of) God, Jesus, instead of his poor satanic father.

If Muslims do not also go along with that archetypal prophet and savior Jesus, as being more authoritative than Muhammad, they will not survive and the religion will die.

This is inevitable as the world will not allow open religious slavery, --- which is what Muslim and Christian ideologies promote.
No?
First of all. You’re misinformed but that doesn’t surprise me either because Satan is very good at spinning the truth. But luckliky even an atheist understands truth when they see it. They may not subscribe to it but they still know deep inside if it plausible.
On your earlier point of being slaves. We are all a Slave to Our Sins. I don’t even have to look further than your post to show an examples of that. I’m not gonna explain them because you seem defensive and would only take it as an attack rather than an attempt at teaching you something as your friend
The good news I get to report? Jesus is God. He said that all throughout the Bible “I AM” “
The Father is in Me and I AM in the Father. So from Math that means if A=B then B=A
He also said “I Am the First and the Last”
He also said “I will send the Helper and won’t leave you Orphans” He called us Orphans. Not slaves. Very different. When you think of an Orphan do you picture a Slave? I didn’t think so neither did I.
Your information does not come from the Bible because it contradicts everything the Bible said. (Also Satan masterfully tricks people). I just finished rereading the Torah (The Law). God never forced himself on anyone he wants you to be his friend and since he created you he wants the best for you. He gives us every conceivable chance to be his friend so he can enact his covenant (which ironically is the rainbow symbol that is used as symbolic for homosexuals) He even met ya half way there. Lol
That covenant is everlasting life in Heaven with our Lord and Saviour rather than being consumed by the Devil who is teetering on extinction and Is acting out because of desperation)
You don’t have to believe me look at the news. He’s reaping havock everywhere (No Donald Trump isn’t the Devil! Lol but willfully creating animosity amongst one another IS)
Look at it like this. We’re all sick. Weve been
given a pill that cures our sickness forever and gives us life everlasting, even reunites us with our body after death) this pull won’t cure all evil in this spec of a lifetime but it will in a just a few moments give you happiness perpetually if you take it.
Either way you know your going to die. All you have to do is say. Ok. I’ll try it and speak these words in Faith to one other person and mean it. Jesus is real and I give my life to him. That simple. He made it that simple.
You’ve been lied to think it’s some hard thing to be a believer. I love it actually he fights my battles daily now. I know it too because I’ve been around a half century and I remember when I was just like YOU. He hardly ever gave me any breaks but now he shows me miracles sometimes multiple times a day. No joking here I can’t prove it that’s what Faith (Trust) is all about.
IDK I guess he figures if you can’t trust him here... why would you trust him in Heaven?

I’m bit the sharpest tool in the shed. But I find it fascinating why folks like yourself fight someone who preaches Love? He preached forgiving one another? He preached giving people the benefit of the doubt? He forgave his own executioner to give you a minuscule chance at coming around. Who does that? I’ve never once met a man that would hang would willingly be tortured for me. Spit on. Hung on a cross and mocked while suffocating in the most excruciating way known to Roman torturers. They were masters of pain. Trust me here.
Have you met someone that would do that for you in spite of your faults? You have met him through me my friend.
Do you think I go around spending countless hours writing this stuff?? For who you? I don’t even know you! Yeshua obviously wants you back. And he wants you back 100% or he wouldn’t have sent me here and let me waste my precious earth time.
I gotta go I had to put my work aside just to try to reach you. But I’ll do anything for The Lord he is worth every second once you take that leap of faith. you will be forever changed.





On Muslim slavery. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NUOSIhg86oc
On archetypal Jesus. https://clyp.it/lqeu3cku

---------

Phoenix76

Why do you show respect for immoral religions?

Regards
DL

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Re: When you reach the age of reason, will you reject supernatural religion?

Postby Matthew Ellard » Tue Nov 07, 2017 12:12 am

Disciples4Truth wrote: It seems you’ve been misinformed. Our Creator is extremely tolerant. He’s put up with much more than I would have personally.
Your God killed almost every living thing on the planet, including innocent babies and puppies, in the flood story. So you would do more than that as you are less tolerant? (I hope you don't collect guns)

Disciples4Truth wrote:Christ said plainly that We’re all sinners ........
No he didn't. English is a modern language. Try quoting this Jesus fellow in Aramaic. It has a different meaning.

Disciples4Truth wrote:The devil is very very crafty and rules by fear, despair, anger, resentment and hate.
Ask the Devil to join the forum. None of us fear this fictional character.

Disciples4Truth wrote: I once was lost but now I’m am found.
You can't even find yourself and yet want to give us advice? Isn't the evidence that you are the last person we should listen to?

Disciples4Truth wrote: you would never know that I suffered from a Crack addiction for almost 3 years.
That must have been when we were all studying science to understand the scientific nature of the universe.

Disciples4Truth wrote:It’s ok I’m a Christian
....and this is a science forum. Try posting on a Christian forum.

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Re: When you reach the age of reason, will you reject supernatural religion?

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Tue Nov 07, 2017 1:52 am

WTF just happened?

Did our new member get lost?

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Re: When you reach the age of reason, will you reject supernatural religion?

Postby Matthew Ellard » Tue Nov 07, 2017 3:23 am

He did make a rather hilarious typo, regarding Jesus.
Disciples4Truth wrote: At first you will take credit for his work but you’ll realize as you grow closer you wang him to get the credit he is due .


Jeff? Do you want to wang Jesus? Frankly, I'm holding back so I can wang Salome. :D

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Re: When you reach the age of reason, will you reject supernatural religion?

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Tue Nov 07, 2017 3:32 am

Matthew Ellard wrote:He did make a rather hilarious typo, regarding Jesus.
Disciples4Truth wrote: At first you will take credit for his work but you’ll realize as you grow closer you wang him to get the credit he is due .


Jeff? Do you want to wang Jesus? Frankly, I'm holding back so I can wang Salome. :D


Wow, that’s someone who really loves him some Jesus!!!

:lol:

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Re: When you reach the age of reason, will you reject supernatural religion?

Postby Matthew Ellard » Tue Nov 07, 2017 4:14 am

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Re: When you reach the age of reason, will you reject supernatural religion?

Postby Gnostic Bishop » Tue Nov 07, 2017 3:28 pm

Disciples4Truth wrote:[
It seems you’ve been misinformed. Our Creator is extremely tolerant. He’s put up with much more than I would have personally. Christ said plainly that We’re all sinners so nobody (not even yourself) can speak from a position of true strength. He himself always spoke on behalf of the Father
.


A tolerant creator would not create a hell for those he cannot tolerate.

As to Jesus, would you like to debate the morality or immorality of substitutionary punishment?

My bottom line is that having another innocent person suffer for the wrongs you have done, --- so that you might escape responsibility for having done them, --- is immoral.

Do you agree?

You may want to view this link before debating on an issue that you would lose.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jKNup9gEBdg

I doubt if you are up to it as most Christians do not care about their moral position and only keep their eyes on the prize of their get out of hell free card.

Why are you ignoring the immorality of the tenet you are following?

Regards
DL

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Re: When you reach the age of reason, will you reject supernatural religion?

Postby Gnostic Bishop » Tue Nov 07, 2017 3:31 pm

Disciples4Truth wrote:
This is why faith is the main component in your salvation. Faith means TRUST.


That is not how faith is describe in the dictionary. Stop misusing your definition.

I also have my own description that is better than yours.

Faith closes the mind. It is pure idol worship.

Faith is a way to quit using, "God given" power of Reason and Logic, and cause the faithful to embrace doctrines that moral people reject.

The God of the OT says, “Come now, and let us reason together,” [Isaiah 1:18]

How can literalists reason on God when they must ignore reason and logic and discard them when turning into literalist?

Those who are literalists can only reply somewhat in the fashion that Martin Luther did.
“Faith must trample under foot all reason, sense, and understanding.”
“Reason is a whore, the greatest enemy that faith has.”

This attitude effectively kills all worthy communication that non-theists can have with theist. Faith closes their mind as it is pure idol worship.

Literalism is an evil practice that hides the true messages of myths. We cannot show our faith based friends that they are wrong through their faith colored glasses. Their faith also plugs their ears.

Regards
DL

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Re: When you reach the age of reason, will you reject supernatural religion?

Postby Gnostic Bishop » Tue Nov 07, 2017 3:38 pm

Disciples4Truth wrote:
Gnostic Bishop wrote:
Phoenix76 wrote:[

Yes going through the gestures, it does offer respect to friends and acquaintances, and I believe that is right.


Why shoe respect for religions that do not deserve them? Is that not being hypocritical?

I am working on a new O.P. Please have a quick look at what you are saying you offer respect to and I extrapolate you think we should respect as well.

---------------

Yahweh. Obey like a slave. Allah. Submit like a slave. Do you see a difference?

I find it strange that all-powerful Gods have a need or want of slaves, but if slavery is all that Christians and Muslims aspire to after death, I am sure glad I am a Gnostic Christian and see Jesus as not being of the same ilk as Christian and Muslim slave aspirers. Jesus said he came to serve man but I guess that he is not like his father. Thank God for that. –;)

In the arena of cultural evolution, the secular and humanist West has decided that Jesus wins the God Wars. Christians have gone along with revering the nice (sort of) God, Jesus, instead of his poor satanic father.

If Muslims do not also go along with that archetypal prophet and savior Jesus, as being more authoritative than Muhammad, they will not survive and the religion will die.

This is inevitable as the world will not allow open religious slavery, --- which is what Muslim and Christian ideologies promote.
No?
First of all. You’re misinformed but that doesn’t surprise me either because Satan is very good at spinning the truth. But luckliky even an atheist understands truth when they see it. They may not subscribe to it but they still know deep inside if it plausible.
On your earlier point of being slaves. We are all a Slave to Our Sins. I don’t even have to look further than your post to show an examples of that. I’m not gonna explain them because you seem defensive and would only take it as an attack rather than an attempt at teaching you something as your friend
The good news I get to report? Jesus is God. He said that all throughout the Bible “I AM” “
The Father is in Me and I AM in the Father. So from Math that means if A=B then B=A
He also said “I Am the First and the Last”
He also said “I will send the Helper and won’t leave you Orphans” He called us Orphans. Not slaves. Very different. When you think of an Orphan do you picture a Slave? I didn’t think so neither did I.
Your information does not come from the Bible because it contradicts everything the Bible said. (Also Satan masterfully tricks people). I just finished rereading the Torah (The Law). God never forced himself on anyone he wants you to be his friend and since he created you he wants the best for you. He gives us every conceivable chance to be his friend so he can enact his covenant (which ironically is the rainbow symbol that is used as symbolic for homosexuals) He even met ya half way there. Lol
That covenant is everlasting life in Heaven with our Lord and Saviour rather than being consumed by the Devil who is teetering on extinction and Is acting out because of desperation)
You don’t have to believe me look at the news. He’s reaping havock everywhere (No Donald Trump isn’t the Devil! Lol but willfully creating animosity amongst one another IS)
Look at it like this. We’re all sick. Weve been
given a pill that cures our sickness forever and gives us life everlasting, even reunites us with our body after death) this pull won’t cure all evil in this spec of a lifetime but it will in a just a few moments give you happiness perpetually if you take it.
Either way you know your going to die. All you have to do is say. Ok. I’ll try it and speak these words in Faith to one other person and mean it. Jesus is real and I give my life to him. That simple. He made it that simple.
You’ve been lied to think it’s some hard thing to be a believer. I love it actually he fights my battles daily now. I know it too because I’ve been around a half century and I remember when I was just like YOU. He hardly ever gave me any breaks but now he shows me miracles sometimes multiple times a day. No joking here I can’t prove it that’s what Faith (Trust) is all about.
IDK I guess he figures if you can’t trust him here... why would you trust him in Heaven?

I’m bit the sharpest tool in the shed. But I find it fascinating why folks like yourself fight someone who preaches Love? He preached forgiving one another? He preached giving people the benefit of the doubt? He forgave his own executioner to give you a minuscule chance at coming around. Who does that? I’ve never once met a man that would hang would willingly be tortured for me. Spit on. Hung on a cross and mocked while suffocating in the most excruciating way known to Roman torturers. They were masters of pain. Trust me here.
Have you met someone that would do that for you in spite of your faults? You have met him through me my friend.
Do you think I go around spending countless hours writing this stuff?? For who you? I don’t even know you! Yeshua obviously wants you back. And he wants you back 100% or he wouldn’t have sent me here and let me waste my precious earth time.
I gotta go I had to put my work aside just to try to reach you. But I’ll do anything for The Lord he is worth every second once you take that leap of faith. you will be forever changed.





On Muslim slavery. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NUOSIhg86oc
On archetypal Jesus. https://clyp.it/lqeu3cku

---------

Phoenix76

Why do you show respect for immoral religions?

Regards
DL


Strange that with all the forgiveness you attribute to Jesus and God, that he/they or whatever would have to create a hell for all those he will not forgive.

Tell us, would a forgiving God forgive those in hell or cure them of their afflictions or would he do as scriptures say he will do which is kill them in the lake of fire, after the torture of hell, or would he cure them?

BTW, you are preaching more than discussing. Stop it or I will ignore you.

Regards
DL

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Re: When you reach the age of reason, will you reject supernatural religion?

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Tue Nov 07, 2017 10:36 pm

Some good points raised.........but I had to gag at: "We are all a Slave to Our Sins." ///////// Intentional manipulation never done to anyone you respect.
Real Name: bobbo the existential pragmatic evangelical anti-theist and Class Warrior.
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Re: When you reach the age of reason, will you reject supernatural religion?

Postby Phoenix76 » Wed Nov 08, 2017 3:40 am

Well I think his avatar says it all - Disciples4Truth.

What bloody truth? I reckon I'm more christian than he is, and I'm an out and out atheist. But that doesn't stop me from showing respect to other people. But as for his mention of followers of islam, well I don't associated with them anyhow, therefore I can't show them respect, or not!

This bloke should find a religious forum somewhere. Yep, must off got lost on the way here. DH!

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Re: When you reach the age of reason, will you reject supernatural religion?

Postby Gnostic Bishop » Wed Nov 08, 2017 6:33 pm

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:Some good points raised.........but I had to gag at: "We are all a Slave to Our Sins." ///////// Intentional manipulation never done to anyone you respect.


Why. Do you not see that as a truth?

You force me to go the long way with something I wrote as an O.P. that shows how we are slaved to and forced to sin.

Can you help but do evil? I do not see how. Do you?
And if you cannot, why would God punish you?

Christians are always trying to absolve God of moral culpability in the fall by putting forward their free will argument and placing all the blame on mankind.
That usually sounds like ----God gave us free will and it was our free willed choices that caused our fall. Hence God is not blameworthy. Such statements simply avoid God's culpability as the author and creator of human nature.

Free will is only the ability to choose. It is not an explanation why anyone would want to choose "A" or "B" (bad or good action). An explanation for why Eve would even have the nature of "being vulnerable to being easily swayed by a serpent" and "desiring to eat a forbidden fruit" must lie in the nature God gave Eve in the first place. Hence God is culpable for deliberately making humans with a nature-inclined-to-fall, and "free will" means nothing as a response to this problem.

If all do evil/sin by nature then, the evil/sin nature is dominant. If not, we would have at least some who would not do evil/sin. Can we then help but do evil? I do not see how. Do you?

Having said the above for the God that I do not believe in, I am a Gnostic Christian naturalist, let me tell you that evil and sin is all human generated and in this sense, I agree with Christians, but for completely different reasons. Evil is mankind’s responsibility and not some imaginary God’s. Free will is something that can only be taken. Free will cannot be given not even by a God unless it has been forcibly withheld.

Much has been written to explain evil and sin but I see as a natural part of evolution.

Consider.
First, let us eliminate what some see as evil. Natural disasters. These are unthinking occurrences and are neither good nor evil. There is no intent to do evil even as victims are created. Without intent to do evil, no act should be called evil.
In secular courts, this is called mens rea. Latin for an evil mind or intent and without it, the court will not find someone guilty even if they know that they are the perpetrator of the act.

Evil then is only human to human when they know they are doing evil and intend harm.

As evolving creatures, all we ever do, and ever can do, is compete or cooperate.
Cooperation we would see as good as there are no victims created. Competition would be seen as evil as it creates a victim. We all are either cooperating, doing good, or competing, doing evil, at all times.

Without us doing some of both, we would likely go extinct.

This, to me, explains why there is evil in the world quite well.

Be you a believer in nature, evolution or God, you should see that what Christians see as something to blame, evil, we should see that what we have, competition, deserves a huge thanks for being available to us. Wherever it came from, God or nature, without evolution we would go extinct. We must do good and evil.

There is no conflict between nature and God on this issue. This is how things are and should be. We all must do what some will think is evil as we compete and create losers to this competition.

This link speak to theistic evolution.

http://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-new ... 66/?no-ist

If theistic evolution is true, then the myth of Eden should be read as a myth and there is not really any original sin.

Doing evil then is actually forced on us by evolution and the need to survive. Our default position is to cooperate or to do good. I offer this clip as proof of this. You will note that we default to good as it is better for survival.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HBW5vdhr_PA

Can you help but do evil? I do not see how. Do you?
And if you cannot, why would God punish you?

Regards
DL


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