Should not vaccinating your child be a criminal offence?

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Should not vaccinating your child be a criminal offence?

Post by Coveny » Thu Nov 30, 2017 3:26 am

There is a lot of misinformation on the internet that references “studies” that have been debunked my science. There is also the fact that science isn’t infallible and has history has shown what science believe to be good for you today, could later turn out to be bad for you. I believe in this case vaccines have proven they work, and they are good science, but their effectiveness means that the risk is much lower to be exposed and therefore need the vaccine is lower as well.

We’ve recently seen cases of preventable illness come back into America after years without a case. I’m a supporter of freedom, but I want what’s best for our society as well. Laws about seatbelts statistically save lives, but this is forcing people to do things against their will for society and their own “good”. How can we call it freedom if we don’t have the choice to make bad decisions? Freedom isn’t defined by a Stepford wife following along because she’s programed to, freedom is defined by doing things like drinking, smoking, gambling, etc that many disagree with. Where is the line in the sand on freedom?

Many public schools require immunization of children or they won’t accept them. These people are paying their taxes for services they cannot use. Should they get a tax break? Is that fair? Is it ethical to take away services paid for simply because you don’t agree with the way the person using it acts? And if it’s based more on the danger the unimmunized child presents what’s the liability?

Should we charge anti-vaxxer parents with assault or murder if they cause an outbreak? They generally live in communities, is the whole community to blame? How do we decide (if we agree there should be punishment) who and how much is justified? And what about their own children?

Is it moral to punish a parent for doing what they believe will help even if the end result hurts their child? I don’t know of a single parent who hasn’t felt like they’ve made some bad decisions in raising their children. It’s not like we received a handbook, and even if we did no one would have time to read it. As it requires more and more time to simply “get by” economically, how much of this is societies fault, and how much is simply a case of not having the time and money to do your due diligence?
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Re: Should not vaccinating your child be a criminal offence?

Post by Gord » Thu Nov 30, 2017 3:36 am

Coveny wrote:Is it moral to punish a parent for doing what they believe will help even if the end result hurts their child?

I don't know about "moral", but it's certainly the sort of thing that laws do -- punish people for negligence even when they think they're doing the right thing. I've often heard that ignorance is no excuse.
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Re: Should not vaccinating your child be a criminal offence?

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Thu Nov 30, 2017 3:50 am

I fell upon this interpretation of Freedom during an exchange some years ago. Seems to me it continues to fit pretty well. Take everything you think of Freedom but then flip it as an obligation that YOU OWE to other people. FREEEEEEEEEEDOM is what you own to other people. It not what you ignorantly and irresponsibly want to do by screwing everyone else.

So.................. of course......... when you put everyone else at risk.... you should get jailed into compliance if that is what it takes. Now......you don't "have to" get vaccinated......but you lose your citizenship and your passport is taken....and I don't know where you go or how you get there. Your choice. Freedom.

On science getting things wrong. Of course it does. Then it corrects. We follow the science.
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Re: Should not vaccinating your child be a criminal offence?

Post by Coveny » Thu Nov 30, 2017 4:08 am

Gord wrote:
Coveny wrote:Is it moral to punish a parent for doing what they believe will help even if the end result hurts their child?

I don't know about "moral", but it's certainly the sort of thing that laws do -- punish people for negligence even when they think they're doing the right thing. I've often heard that ignorance is no excuse.


There are many immoral things that were legal...
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Re: Should not vaccinating your child be a criminal offence?

Post by Coveny » Thu Nov 30, 2017 4:09 am

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:I fell upon this interpretation of Freedom during an exchange some years ago. Seems to me it continues to fit pretty well. Take everything you think of Freedom but then flip it as an obligation that YOU OWE to other people. FREEEEEEEEEEDOM is what you own to other people. It not what you ignorantly and irresponsibly want to do by screwing everyone else.

So.................. of course......... when you put everyone else at risk.... you should get jailed into compliance if that is what it takes. Now......you don't "have to" get vaccinated......but you lose your citizenship and your passport is taken....and I don't know where you go or how you get there. Your choice. Freedom.

On science getting things wrong. Of course it does. Then it corrects. We follow the science.


But if you take the mindset of an anti-vaxxer they do owe it to others not to get vaccinated, so I don't know that your definition applies so good.
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Re: Should not vaccinating your child be a criminal offence?

Post by Matthew Ellard » Thu Nov 30, 2017 5:02 am

Coveny wrote:Many public schools require immunization of children or they won’t accept them. These people are paying their taxes for services they cannot use. Should they get a tax break?


In Australia, as we are socialist, and parents receive many child support financial subsidies, it is "No Jab, No pay". I think that is fair because health care is free, and epidemics put cost pressure on health care.

(I'm expecting twins in April/ May and I'm learning about all this now)
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Re: Should not vaccinating your child be a criminal offence?

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Thu Nov 30, 2017 5:37 am

Coveny wrote:But if you take the mindset of an anti-vaxxer they do owe it to others not to get vaccinated, so I don't know that your definition applies so good.

I don't follow you. The mindset of an anti-vaxxer is that they know more than the scientists do and they are going to protect their children by not following the law. But its "THE LAW" that we all owe fedility to.....not our own BS. So, by my understanding, my definition fits perfectly. What did one of us get wrong?????
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Re: Should not vaccinating your child be a criminal offence?

Post by Poodle » Thu Nov 30, 2017 8:13 am

I know of no society in which all opinion - good/bad, educated/thick, prejudiced/airy-fairy, black/white - is acted upon. In fact, such a society would grind to a halt in two seconds flat. Generally speaking, societies tend to go for the route which is backed up by facts or, at least, solid research or, in the worst-case scenario, majority opinion. Strangely, in all of those scenarios, vaccination comes out as a must-have.

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Re: Should not vaccinating your child be a criminal offence?

Post by Phoenix76 » Thu Nov 30, 2017 9:45 am

Well as I see it, it comes down to the fact the we all live in a society. And whilst freedom is something to fight and die for, there is also an obligation to the community you live in.

So if you don't vaccinate your child, and it contracts one of these diseases that has killed countless children over the years, and then passes that disease onto my child, and kills it, then you have failed your obligations as a member of your society. I would also probably try and track you down and do away with your miserable life.

I don't know that we can ever have a society where absolute freedom of the individual can survive. In fact, I don't believe there would be any society at all. We would all end being Robinson Crusoe, and I don't know that many of us could sustain that lifestyle.

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Re: Should not vaccinating your child be a criminal offence?

Post by Gord » Thu Nov 30, 2017 9:54 am

Coveny wrote:
Gord wrote:
Coveny wrote:Is it moral to punish a parent for doing what they believe will help even if the end result hurts their child?

I don't know about "moral", but it's certainly the sort of thing that laws do -- punish people for negligence even when they think they're doing the right thing. I've often heard that ignorance is no excuse.

There are many immoral things that were legal...

I make a distinction between moral and ethical. To quote from here: https://www.diffen.com/difference/Ethics_vs_Morals

"Ethics refer to rules provided by an external source, e.g., codes of conduct in workplaces or principles in religions. Morals refer to an individual's own principles regarding right and wrong."

And that's not even getting into the differences between ethics, morality, and legality (yuck). Hopefully there will be few laws regarding one's moral principles.
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Re: Should not vaccinating your child be a criminal offence?

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Thu Nov 30, 2017 1:03 pm

Phoenix76 wrote: I don't know that we can ever have a society where absolute freedom of the individual can survive.
Why do you frame what you believe as the rejection of a negative? This is too convoluted and leads to fuzzy thinking. Not in THIS case as you muddle your way to the right analysis. but in cases not so clear? I have to wonder.

Say it plain: There is NO society where freedom of the individual can survive. Absolutes aren't even in the picture.

Phoenix76 wrote:In fact, I don't believe there would be any society at all.
Exactly.

Phoenix76 wrote: We would all end being Robinson Crusoe, and I don't know that many of us could sustain that lifestyle.
That is the whole point. Crusoe DID NOT LIVE in a society. He was one man isolated on an island. do I have to say it????????????????? What is it that is not an island?
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Re: Should not vaccinating your child be a criminal offence?

Post by OlegTheBatty » Thu Nov 30, 2017 2:36 pm

Matthew Ellard wrote:
Coveny wrote:Many public schools require immunization of children or they won’t accept them. These people are paying their taxes for services they cannot use. Should they get a tax break?


In Australia, as we are socialist, and parents receive many child support financial subsidies, it is "No Jab, No pay". I think that is fair because health care is free, and epidemics put cost pressure on health care.

(I'm expecting twins in April/ May and I'm learning about all this now)
:lol:


Even in the US, the increased costs from epidemics is shared by all consumers, as it needs to be factored into every insurers premiums. TANSTAAFL.
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Re: Should not vaccinating your child be a criminal offence?

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Thu Nov 30, 2017 3:02 pm

Paying taxes for non-received services. Always a bogus argument. I have no kiddies and pay the same taxes. Its the social contract. The fine print to be applied whether you agree or not. Moronic to even raise the issue.
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Re: Should not vaccinating your child be a criminal offence?

Post by Coveny » Fri Dec 01, 2017 1:26 am

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:
Coveny wrote:But if you take the mindset of an anti-vaxxer they do owe it to others not to get vaccinated, so I don't know that your definition applies so good.

I don't follow you. The mindset of an anti-vaxxer is that they know more than the scientists do and they are going to protect their children by not following the law. But its "THE LAW" that we all owe fedility to.....not our own BS. So, by my understanding, my definition fits perfectly. What did one of us get wrong?????


Of all the people I expected to use the law makes right angle you were not the one...
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Re: Should not vaccinating your child be a criminal offence?

Post by Coveny » Fri Dec 01, 2017 1:27 am

Poodle wrote:I know of no society in which all opinion - good/bad, educated/thick, prejudiced/airy-fairy, black/white - is acted upon. In fact, such a society would grind to a halt in two seconds flat. Generally speaking, societies tend to go for the route which is backed up by facts or, at least, solid research or, in the worst-case scenario, majority opinion. Strangely, in all of those scenarios, vaccination comes out as a must-have.


They aren't a must have here, and in many places religious reasons get you a pass as well.
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Re: Should not vaccinating your child be a criminal offence?

Post by Coveny » Fri Dec 01, 2017 1:28 am

Phoenix76 wrote:Well as I see it, it comes down to the fact the we all live in a society. And whilst freedom is something to fight and die for, there is also an obligation to the community you live in.

So if you don't vaccinate your child, and it contracts one of these diseases that has killed countless children over the years, and then passes that disease onto my child, and kills it, then you have failed your obligations as a member of your society. I would also probably try and track you down and do away with your miserable life.

I don't know that we can ever have a society where absolute freedom of the individual can survive. In fact, I don't believe there would be any society at all. We would all end being Robinson Crusoe, and I don't know that many of us could sustain that lifestyle.


I like that response, well put.
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Re: Should not vaccinating your child be a criminal offence?

Post by Coveny » Fri Dec 01, 2017 1:31 am

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:Paying taxes for non-received services. Always a bogus argument. I have no kiddies and pay the same taxes. Its the social contract. The fine print to be applied whether you agree or not. Moronic to even raise the issue.


There is a difference between a non-used service and a refused service. Oh and dial my the ad hominem there crazy man.
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Re: Should not vaccinating your child be a criminal offence?

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Fri Dec 01, 2017 3:52 am

Coveny wrote: There is a difference between a non-used service and a refused service.
.... and what is that difference?

Coveny wrote:Oh and dial my the ad hominem there crazy man.
Please restate to correct the typo? My best guess is change "my" to back? But....thats not a typo. I'm doing the same "auto typing" more and more. I hate it.
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Re: Should not vaccinating your child be a criminal offence?

Post by Coveny » Fri Dec 01, 2017 9:49 pm

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:
Coveny wrote:Oh and dial my the ad hominem there crazy man.
Please restate to correct the typo? My best guess is change "my" to back? But....thats not a typo. I'm doing the same "auto typing" more and more. I hate it.


Typo - an error (as of spelling) in typed or typeset material

So yes it is a typo because typos can be more than just spelling error they can be whole word errors. Also me too, and I find it annoying. I have thought about it, and I think it happens when I change my train of thought while typing. My hands type the previous thought, and then just keep going with the new though. Although I have no idea how I could test out that hypotheses...
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Re: Should not vaccinating your child be a criminal offence?

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Fri Dec 01, 2017 11:32 pm

Coveny: yep....me too. Changing the track of mind would be merciful, but I see words connected to nothing when I proof: "Who typed THAT?"

I have been a proud misspeller ever since reading that smart educated people who can't spell are just being anti-authoritarian. But this Ghost Writing is a whole different subject........

Back on subject: taxes paid are the social contract. No system would work if each individual could veto their portion of payment based on agreement. Such a whacked out concept, it deserves to be call moronic when put on the table........... and its variants.
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Re: Should not vaccinating your child be a criminal offence?

Post by Coveny » Sat Dec 02, 2017 4:12 am

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:Back on subject: taxes paid are the social contract. No system would work if each individual could veto their portion of payment based on agreement. Such a whacked out concept, it deserves to be call moronic when put on the table........... and its variants.


But my point is the individual is not the one vetoing the agreement society is, and they still want their money.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZomwVcGt0LE
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Re: Should not vaccinating your child be a criminal offence?

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Sat Dec 02, 2017 5:31 am

Yes............and thats a moronic position.

Prove me wrong...............what would happen if everyone could demand a tax refund based upon what services were denied them because they refused to comply with program requirements to receive such benefits?

Hint: its called Anarchy.
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Re: Should not vaccinating your child be a criminal offence?

Post by Coveny » Sat Dec 02, 2017 9:13 pm

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:Prove me wrong...............what would happen if everyone could demand a tax refund based upon what services were denied them because they refused to comply with program requirements to receive such benefits?

Hint: its called Anarchy.


When you make a claim you have the burden of proof, not me.

I expect this point to devolve into semantics about the difference between qualifying, and requirements, but I guess we'll see how you play it.
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Re: Should not vaccinating your child be a criminal offence?

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Sat Dec 02, 2017 10:53 pm

You actually made the claim.

.................................................... it can be contextualized however one wishes.
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Re: Should not vaccinating your child be a criminal offence?

Post by Coveny » Sun Dec 03, 2017 3:25 am

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:You actually made the claim.

.................................................... it can be contextualized however one wishes.

what would happen if everyone could demand a tax refund based upon what services were denied them because they refused to comply with program requirements to receive such benefits?

Hint: its called Anarchy.


So the anarchy thing wasn't a claim on what would happen if services that were denied were refunded? I assumed it was a rhetorical questions, that you answered yourself to claim you knew what would happen. Personally I haven't seen any data or have any knowledge of it being experimented with, but I don't think it would create anarchy. Oh but wait you are saying you didn't claim it would cause anarchy right?
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Re: Should not vaccinating your child be a criminal offence?

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Sun Dec 03, 2017 4:29 am

See?

Thats where you contextualize it.

........................but.............the status quo of everything is the status quo of everything and YOU want to change that by allowing people to withhold or get refunded their taxes based on what they individually prefer. I see that as recommending a change that you did not offer to prove would/could work in any way.

Its all where you place the emPHAsis. Rather than support your claim, you shift it to anyone who disagrees claiming they have the burden of proof. Its a niggardly thing to do.
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Re: Should not vaccinating your child be a criminal offence?

Post by Coveny » Sun Dec 03, 2017 5:35 am

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:See?

Thats where you contextualize it.

........................but.............the status quo of everything is the status quo of everything and YOU want to change that by allowing people to withhold or get refunded their taxes based on what they individually prefer. I see that as recommending a change that you did not offer to prove would/could work in any way.

Its all where you place the emPHAsis. Rather than support your claim, you shift it to anyone who disagrees claiming they have the burden of proof. Its a nXXXXX thing to do.


I don't want to change that because it can't be changed. The statement "the status quo of everything is the status quo of everything" equates the same sentence to itself, claiming it to be equal as if it could possible be anything but equal. If the status quo changes it doesn't matter because "the status quo of everything is STILL the status quo of everything" it's a logical impossibility for it to be any other way. I didn't recommend it that's a strawman, I asked what people thought about it.

I made no claim I asked a question. Not the same thing.

Oh wow now you are using racial slurs... let me "x" that out for ya. Dude what are you smoking?
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Re: Should not vaccinating your child be a criminal offence?

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Sun Dec 03, 2017 7:25 am

You only asked a question? ............OK............ then interpret my response as a question as well. You can switch gears here and go to the substance of an exchange rather than the form?????

With your niggardly dictionary and kneejerk skills on display.........maybe not.

"Should society structure itself in ways that could not work and have never been used as a result?" ===>gee, thats a puzzler.
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Re: Should not vaccinating your child be a criminal offence?

Post by Coveny » Sun Dec 03, 2017 5:07 pm

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:"Should society structure itself in ways that could not work and have never been used as a result?" ===>gee, thats a puzzler.


The assumption that it "could not work" is a claim which you would need to prove. This is a common lawyer trick to get defendants to admit to stuff they didn't do. Here's an example:

Is it difficult being a racist?

The question assumes you are a racist, if you answer the question you accept the claim. Didn't expect lawyer tricks out of you...
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Re: Should not vaccinating your child be a criminal offence?

Post by Pyrrho » Sun Dec 03, 2017 5:17 pm

The word "niggardly" is not a racial slur.

http://www.dictionary.com/browse/niggardly

Origin explained here:

http://www.dictionary.com/browse/niggard
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Re: Should not vaccinating your child be a criminal offence?

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Sun Dec 03, 2017 6:13 pm

I once was going to rent an apartment to a mixed racial couple. They paid first last etc and came back with the first load of furniture only to find someone had broken in and wrote in black paint on the walls "Go Away Niger!" Cops were called, a number of near tennants and myself all gathered in the living room and the Cop asked anyone know who did this? I had a pretty good idea it was the Hell's Angels Wannabe who lived next door, so I said: "I don't know but they can't be too bright given they don't know how to spell Nigger." Given my ever so sensitive notions about racism, those were days when the "N" word was not used in polite society but had not been claimed by our Afro-American brothers. Well, Danny looked away and I assume he did it. NOT TOO BRIGHT on MY PART. He was a wanna be.....but he was exactly that stupid. ........never used a dictionary, even when put on notice to do so.

............and, its like he never watched South Park.......hmmm......that was a few years later..........on HIS part.

Fun times. Words. What they mean, don't mean. How we think, don't think.
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Re: Should not vaccinating your child be a criminal offence?

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Sun Dec 03, 2017 6:29 pm

Coveny wrote: Is it difficult being a racist?

The question assumes you are a racist, if you answer the question you accept the claim. Didn't expect lawyer tricks out of you...

I've heard many, almost all, black leaders claim that all whites are racists because at this point in time all people recognize different races and as a member of the white race in America I either exercise or benefit from the White Power Structure.........so I am a racist and cannot escape the reality of that. Imagine that? So I would answer: its not difficult at all, in fact, its as easy and as unavoidable as being born white in america.

As with every other label that is used by and put on people, its not the label that counts, its what you DO with it. Thats another can of worms that should never be opened without also opening the dictionary. Ain't that a shame?

ahhhhh.....it struck me just as I almost posted.......what about White Leaders? What do they say about all whites being racist? They usually go off the rails denying that White Privilege exists. What has amused me right from the start is how the discussion is a battle of words that no one EVER stops to define. Hence my shame comment above. If you can't discuss the subject with whatever definitions are agreed to at some point in the conversation, you really have nothing to learn..............and thats a shame too.

Know what I mean?
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Re: Should not vaccinating your child be a criminal offence?

Post by Coveny » Sun Dec 03, 2017 7:23 pm

Pyrrho wrote:The word "niggardly" is not a racial slur.

http://www.dictionary.com/browse/niggardly

Origin explained here:

http://www.dictionary.com/browse/niggard


That sounds all well and good but let me replace the word in the sentence used:

"you shift the burden of proof to anyone who disagrees claiming they have the burden of proof. It's a stingy thing to do."

Makes no sense, and is a dog whistle at best.
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Re: Should not vaccinating your child be a criminal offence?

Post by Coveny » Sun Dec 03, 2017 7:35 pm

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:
Coveny wrote: Is it difficult being a racist?

The question assumes you are a racist, if you answer the question you accept the claim. Didn't expect lawyer tricks out of you...

I've heard many, almost all, black leaders claim that all whites are racists because at this point in time all people recognize different races and as a member of the white race in America I either exercise or benefit from the White Power Structure.........so I am a racist and cannot escape the reality of that. Imagine that? So I would answer: its not difficult at all, in fact, its as easy and as unavoidable as being born white in america.

As with every other label that is used by and put on people, its not the label that counts, its what you DO with it. Thats another can of worms that should never be opened without also opening the dictionary. Ain't that a shame?

ahhhhh.....it struck me just as I almost posted.......what about White Leaders? What do they say about all whites being racist? They usually go off the rails denying that White Privilege exists. What has amused me right from the start is how the discussion is a battle of words that no one EVER stops to define. Hence my shame comment above. If you can't discuss the subject with whatever definitions are agreed to at some point in the conversation, you really have nothing to learn..............and thats a shame too.

Know what I mean?


Ok I'll take that as you admitting to using lawyer tricks rather than debating, as you didn't give the reason why my question is the same as your statement.

It sounds like you mean the Nirvana fallacy. It will never be possible "agree" on definitions. Even if absolute truths do exist they aren't something that we can know/communicate. So what you believe you are agreeing to, is going to be different that what I agree I'm agreeing to based on the glasses we see the world through. This is the reason semantics debates tend to go around and around defining words within words, that then circle back around to the first word, or have subtle difference from one source to another that change the interpretation in a big way. Now I will admit that some words are more ambiguous than others, and if you want me to go into detail on one of those words you let me know. Which one of these words are you having a problem with?

"Should not vaccinating your child be a criminal offence?"
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Re: Should not vaccinating your child be a criminal offence?

Post by Gord » Sun Dec 03, 2017 8:01 pm

What does "ambiguous" mean?
"Knowledge grows through infinite timelessness" -- the random fictional Deepak Chopra quote site
"Imagine an ennobling of what could be" -- the New Age BS Generator site
"You are also taking my words out of context." -- Justin
"Nullius in verba" -- The Royal Society ["take nobody's word for it"]
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Re: Should not vaccinating your child be a criminal offence?

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Sun Dec 03, 2017 8:09 pm

I was thinking of parsimonious with the emPHAsis on "lack of generous impulses..." ///////////// Ha, ha.........who am I kidding? OF COURSE, I thought it meant anyone who disagrees with me.

Now, even absent any contrition or thanks on your part, what do we have with the Burden of Proof? Oh..........we are going round and round..........or back to the start. Not a bad thing to do in this case?

"Should not vaccinating your child be a criminal offence?"

You asked the same question. I'll give the same answer: "So.................. of course......... when you put everyone else at risk.... you should get jailed into compliance if that is what it takes. Now......you don't "have to" get vaccinated......but you lose your citizenship and your passport is taken....and I don't know where you go or how you get there. Your choice. Freedom." ////// and not being niggardly myself, I'll add a fillip to it: What is meant by criminal? Usually--subject to incarceration or fine or both and usually after a trial/hearing of some sort? And as I posted...."if that is what it takes." but in our society we often skip over easy cheaper more effective steps to get to the coercion. We Christians know what coercion means. I usually try to find non/less coercive remedies for most issues....including outright murder, but thats a different diversion.

Isn't the practice today for Child Protective Services to take the kiddie into custody and give them the vaccinations whether the parents agree or not? Seems all I have actually read is that kiddies aren't allowed to enroll in school which usually solves the problem. But it IS illegal not to send kiddies to school/homeschool etc....leading to the direct non parental coercive result that I support.........but give the parents 30 days notice to leave the country if they want their kiddie to die from avoidable diseases. Everyone getting the maximum FREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEDOM.

Hmmmm.....the burden thing didn't come up. Must have been a dither? Dithery-doooo.

Same with second issue: third and forth? Good demonstration of the peril of asking too many questions? But its a broad net........catching fish as small as the Nirvana fallacy. Don't know that one.....in context, I can guess................BUT more on topic, reviewing the thread for precision I came across your statement: "But my point is the individual is not the one vetoing the agreement society is, and they still want their money." I'll deconstruct it this way: yes, the individual is not vetoing the agreement. THAT is an act he cannot perform. All he is doing is VIOLATING THE LAW. And society is not vetoing anything either, it is simply ENFORCING THE LAW. And yes.......everybody wants the money. I hear it makes the world go round. ///// Dictionary Time: you must mean something other than veto? I mean, without reaching Nirvana, Shirley you can climb the mountain to a higher level of consciousness?
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Re: Should not vaccinating your child be a criminal offence?

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Sun Dec 03, 2017 8:13 pm

Gord wrote:What does "ambiguous" mean?

Negating what clearly takes place all the time.
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Re: Should not vaccinating your child be a criminal offence?

Post by Pyrrho » Sun Dec 03, 2017 8:15 pm

Coveny wrote:
Pyrrho wrote:The word "niggardly" is not a racial slur.

http://www.dictionary.com/browse/niggardly

Origin explained here:

http://www.dictionary.com/browse/niggard


That sounds all well and good but let me replace the word in the sentence used:

"you shift the burden of proof to anyone who disagrees claiming they have the burden of proof. It's a stingy thing to do."

Makes no sense, and is a dog whistle at best.
https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Dog_whistle_politics

I understand that the word sounds and looks like another word that is a racial slur. Whether or not it qualifies as "dog whistle" racism depends upon context, and in this context, it is not a racial slur, and its usage in this case does not merit administrative action.
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Re: Should not vaccinating your child be a criminal offence?

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Sun Dec 03, 2017 8:21 pm

While its a dither, I am attracted to the subject of it being at right angles to my perceived persona. THE LAW: its what happens when two people disagree. THE LAW.........is what is going to happen. A nice bit of external reality to always keep in mind. My cat lady neighbor is just right now fully moved out of her home because she vetoed the wild animal ordinance....and the county still keeps her tax dollars. ha, ha.

Yes, I take the Law as my avatar WHEN I AGREE WITH IT==like public health enforcement, the very reason the average lifespan of knuckledraggers rose from 32. Moronic to make any argument to go backwards........in the face of.............. SCIENCE.........and demonstrated HISTORY. Yes........asking a question in such a context is a disagreement that has the burden of proof to support. When I disagree with the Law.............I dither.
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Re: Should not vaccinating your child be a criminal offence?

Post by Pyrrho » Sun Dec 03, 2017 8:25 pm

Cool story, bro.
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