Precognition and prophetic dream.

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Zetsubou_Sensei
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Precognition and prophetic dream.

Postby Zetsubou_Sensei » Sun May 28, 2017 6:57 am

Hello,

A person died a while ago who was very close to my sister's friend. They found out her friend's brother died after crashing into a tree. Fast forward up to now, they claim the person who died was feeling very cold before the even happened meaning death was about to take him away.

After the funeral, a person who apparently had no connection to her brother said that they had a dream stating that this person saw the stage of the funeral home and saw the brother being incinerated. My sister who also happens to have a degree in psychology also said that the brother 'visited' her in her dreams.

Now everyone's religious belief has been bolstered while telling everyone of the filthy nonbeliever (me) that I am deluded for being skeptical of this.

What are some arguments against the above? I don't plan on having an argument with them as with the topic of death leads to a lot emotional arguments.

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Re: Precognition and prophetic dream.

Postby ElectricMonk » Sun May 28, 2017 7:05 am

Hi there.

The main argument is: human memory is crap, and doubly so of dreams.
We modify and adapt our memories to suit the moment of recall, not the other way around. Unless someone writes down their predictions and checks them later for accuracy (and inaccuracy), there is no reason to assume that anything but false memory and coincidence has happened.
People feel cold all the time.
I've come up with a set of rules that describe our reactions to technologies:
Spoiler:
1. Anything that is in the world when you’re born is normal and ordinary and is just a natural part of the way the world works.
2. Anything that's invented between when you’re fifteen and thirty-five is new and exciting and revolutionary and you can probably get a career in it.
3. Anything invented after you're thirty-five is against the natural order of things.
- Douglas Adams

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Re: Precognition and prophetic dream.

Postby Zetsubou_Sensei » Sun May 28, 2017 7:18 am

ElectricMonk wrote:Hi there.

The main argument is: human memory is crap, and doubly so of dreams.
We modify and adapt our memories to suit the moment of recall, not the other way around. Unless someone writes down their predictions and checks them later for accuracy (and inaccuracy), there is no reason to assume that anything but false memory and coincidence has happened.
People feel cold all the time.


What about those so called 'studies' which state that people who do have precognition?
http://hplusmagazine.com/2010/11/04/pre ... -mind-can/

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Re: Precognition and prophetic dream.

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Sun May 28, 2017 8:00 am

Ahem: no one is personally "in despair" over other peoples' irrationality. Only their own. So..........quit posing.

"If you could reason with an idiot, they wouldn't be idiots in the first place."
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Re: Precognition and prophetic dream.

Postby ElectricMonk » Sun May 28, 2017 8:19 am

None if these studies are repeatable (unless they are based on a trick).
I've come up with a set of rules that describe our reactions to technologies:
Spoiler:
1. Anything that is in the world when you’re born is normal and ordinary and is just a natural part of the way the world works.
2. Anything that's invented between when you’re fifteen and thirty-five is new and exciting and revolutionary and you can probably get a career in it.
3. Anything invented after you're thirty-five is against the natural order of things.
- Douglas Adams

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Re: Precognition and prophetic dream.

Postby Gawdzilla Sama » Sun May 28, 2017 11:13 am

Retrofitting the details of the event to a dream is very easy. It's also fallacious.
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Re: Precognition and prophetic dream.

Postby gorgeous » Sun May 28, 2017 1:41 pm

I have had dreams of my future events that came true...always 2-3 months later...I knew a lady who's husband also had dreams come true 2-3 months later.....it happens, it's real.....I dreamt of Michael Jackson's death 2 months before it happened, I dreamt of a hurricane with a specific name 3 months before it happened..it wasn't even a tropical storm yet...our minds can access the future as it happens now on a different dimension..
Science Fundamentalism...is exactly what happens when there’s a significant, perceived ideological threat to one’s traditions and identity.

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Re: Precognition and prophetic dream.

Postby Gawdzilla Sama » Sun May 28, 2017 1:53 pm

And you never documented any of this because it's all BS.
Chachacha wrote:"Oh, thweet mythtery of wife, at waft I've found you!"

WWII Resources. Primary sources.
The Myths of Pearl Harbor. Demythologizing the attack.
Hyperwar. Hypertext history of the Second World War.
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Re: Precognition and prophetic dream.

Postby gorgeous » Sun May 28, 2017 1:59 pm

Lincoln dreams about a presidential assassination - Apr 04, 1865 ...



www.history.com/this-day-in.../lincoln- ... assination


On this day in History, Lincoln dreams about a presidential assassination on Apr 04, 1865. Learn more ... Did Abraham Lincoln predict his own death?
Science Fundamentalism...is exactly what happens when there’s a significant, perceived ideological threat to one’s traditions and identity.

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Re: Precognition and prophetic dream.

Postby gorgeous » Sun May 28, 2017 2:03 pm

Brilliant American author Mark Twain once told of a vivid dream whereby he had seen his brother laying in a casket.

Within a few days, Twain was informed his brother had died in an accident. Twain’s brother had been on board a boat that suddenly exploded killing him instantly.

Twain travelled to the town where the accident took place to attend his brother’s funeral. Upon his arrival, Twain was shocked to discover his brother laid out in a casket exactly as he had seen in his dream!
Science Fundamentalism...is exactly what happens when there’s a significant, perceived ideological threat to one’s traditions and identity.

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Re: Precognition and prophetic dream.

Postby Gawdzilla Sama » Sun May 28, 2017 3:43 pm

Retrofitting. Try to keep up, gorgon.
Chachacha wrote:"Oh, thweet mythtery of wife, at waft I've found you!"

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The Myths of Pearl Harbor. Demythologizing the attack.
Hyperwar. Hypertext history of the Second World War.
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Re: Precognition and prophetic dream.

Postby Matthew Ellard » Sun May 28, 2017 11:06 pm

gorgeous wrote:I have had dreams of my future events that came true...always 2-3 months later..

Nope. That's total crap. You made this claim a year ago, as per usual, and refused to write down any of your predictions, as per usual. so we just laughed at you, as per usual. :lol:

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Re: Precognition and prophetic dream.

Postby Upton_O_Goode » Mon May 29, 2017 10:23 am

Gawdzilla Sama wrote:Retrofitting. Try to keep up, gorgon.


"Retrofitting" is the perfect response! I'd have spent three sentences trying to explain what is wrong with Gorgeous's argument.
"Reserve a part of your wrath ; you have not seen the worst yet. You suppose that this war has been a criminal blunder and an exceptional horror ; you imagine that before long reason will prevail, and all these inferior people that govern the world will be swept aside, and your own party will reform everything and remain always in office. You are mistaken."

George Santayana, "Tipperary" (1918)

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Re: Precognition and prophetic dream.

Postby gorgeous » Mon May 29, 2017 1:43 pm

not an argument....real experiences....
Science Fundamentalism...is exactly what happens when there’s a significant, perceived ideological threat to one’s traditions and identity.

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Re: Precognition and prophetic dream.

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Mon May 29, 2017 3:35 pm

I've had very vivid dreams about THE PAST. ................. and they were wrong.

................... How do you figure that?
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Re: Precognition and prophetic dream.

Postby Upton_O_Goode » Mon May 29, 2017 9:20 pm

gorgeous wrote:not an argument....real experiences....


Oh yes, I'm quite aware that the person who experiences a close call and survives is apt to think that surely some god must have intervened. The notion that it was mere chance, that the universe doesn't give a damn whether we live or die is just to harsh to be faced. Hitler, having survived numerous attempts on his life, continued in his delusion that he was a force of destiny right to the very end. If any god had a part in all that, I can only say that god is a fiend. But then, anyone who thinks because certain parts of the world are very beautiful and pleasurable, as Schiller put it "Above the canopy of stars must a dear Father dwell" (part of the chorus of Beethoven's Ninth Symphony) is simply looking at only part of the universe. The other part is a huge majority of the human race, born into poverty, misery, and disease, and subject to hurricanes, floods, volcanoes, earthquakes, fires, and tornadoes, to live perhaps a few miserable years and then perish in great pain. If that's what a loving god does (and human sin does NOT cause earthquakes, volcanoes, etc.), it's hard to see how Satan could do any worse, or indeed how Satan is to be distinguished from such a god.
"Reserve a part of your wrath ; you have not seen the worst yet. You suppose that this war has been a criminal blunder and an exceptional horror ; you imagine that before long reason will prevail, and all these inferior people that govern the world will be swept aside, and your own party will reform everything and remain always in office. You are mistaken."

George Santayana, "Tipperary" (1918)

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Re: Precognition and prophetic dream.

Postby Upton_O_Goode » Mon May 29, 2017 9:25 pm

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:I've had very vivid dreams about THE PAST. ................. and they were wrong.

................... How do you figure that?



I have occasional vivid dreams about the present, in which I imagine the US has elected a narcissistic sociopath as President and he's wrecking all our alliances, alienating nations with whom we had been on good terms, and playing into the hands of nations determined to ruin us, while simultaneously grinding the poor into the dirt and taxing everyone to provide yet more wealth for the tiny minority that couldn't count their wealth in $100 bills if they started now and continued for the rest of their lives. Thank God, that dream isn't coming true. Oh, wait....
"Reserve a part of your wrath ; you have not seen the worst yet. You suppose that this war has been a criminal blunder and an exceptional horror ; you imagine that before long reason will prevail, and all these inferior people that govern the world will be swept aside, and your own party will reform everything and remain always in office. You are mistaken."

George Santayana, "Tipperary" (1918)

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Re: Precognition and prophetic dream.

Postby gorgeous » Mon May 29, 2017 9:56 pm

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:I've had very vivid dreams about THE PAST. ................. and they were wrong.

................... How do you figure that?

----idk...the past is occurring now and being changed by you maybe...seth has said we can change the past...
Science Fundamentalism...is exactly what happens when there’s a significant, perceived ideological threat to one’s traditions and identity.

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Re: Precognition and prophetic dream.

Postby gorgeous » Mon May 29, 2017 10:07 pm

Upton_O_Goode wrote:
gorgeous wrote:not an argument....real experiences....


Oh yes, I'm quite aware that the person who experiences a close call and survives is apt to think that surely some god must have intervened. The notion that it was mere chance, that the universe doesn't give a damn whether we live or die is just to harsh to be faced. Hitler, having survived numerous attempts on his life, continued in his delusion that he was a force of destiny right to the very end. If any god had a part in all that, I can only say that god is a fiend. But then, anyone who thinks because certain parts of the world are very beautiful and pleasurable, as Schiller put it "Above the canopy of stars must a dear Father dwell" (part of the chorus of Beethoven's Ninth Symphony) is simply looking at only part of the universe. The other part is a huge majority of the human race, born into poverty, misery, and disease, and subject to hurricanes, floods, volcanoes, earthquakes, fires, and tornadoes, to live perhaps a few miserable years and then perish in great pain. If that's what a loving god does (and human sin does NOT cause earthquakes, volcanoes, etc.), it's hard to see how Satan could do any worse, or indeed how Satan is to be distinguished from such a god.

------------------ I've asked for healing and received it ...some more kind being did help me...many people have gotten help when they needed it...God didn't cause poverty and disease...one reason could be....---in a near death experience one person saw people in a group waiting to incarnate...they were shown the fast track in evolving is through suffering..to rid yourself of negative karma......the slow track is through a happy , healthy life....one man rejected his option of having a club foot in his life..could be.... ---------------seth----."Your given situation at birth, therefore, is one in which you cannot
manipulate adequately in whatever way you have chosen. If you have
decided upon a situation in which a critical organic lack or disability is
involved, and are born with a severe disease, for example, then that is
the context in which you will experience this particular focus in corporeal
reality. There will be a reason for it, and that reason will lie in
those abilities that you have left free and open for yourself to pursue.--------------If
it involves a circumstance that cannot be altered in physical terms, then
you have settled upon it as a framework in order to enhance and use
other abilities in concentrated form. The main point is not to concentrate
upon the liabilities but to pursue those abilities that you have, for the
great energies of your personality will be directed in those avenues.------------.--------------In your terms, birth defects of whatever kind are chosen before this
life. This is done for many different reasons (just as people choose to be ill in this life, regardless of the duration involved). That is, a certain
psychic framework is set up through which an individual decides "ahead
of time" to experience an entire life situation. Some information on this
has been given in my other writings.*
A person with several existences stressing intellectual achievement
might purposely then decide upon a life in which mental abilities are
beyond him, and the emotions allowed a full play that he had denied
them "earlier."------------------- seth--- "The Nature of Personal Reality"-----------on natural disasters ------There will be others who
are a part of the calamity for their own reasons.
Psychically, mentally and physically, they will be as much a part of such an
event as, say, the water that sweeps through a town in a flood. They will utilize
the physical catastrophe as an individual might use a symptom for purposes of
challenge, growth, or understanding — but they will choose their disaster just as
they will choose their symptoms. They will be aware of the framework,
therefore. It will not be thrust upon them.
They may not consciously accept such information, but if they knew how
to examine themselves, they would discover that their beliefs added up to
precisely the given kind of situation. (Pause.) An illness of a severe nature may
be used by an individual to put him or her into the most intimate contact with
the powers of life and death, to initiate a crisis in order to mobilize buried
survival instincts, to vividly portray great points of contrast and summon all of
his or her strength.------------------------Again, there are no accidents. No one dies under
any circumstances who is not prepared to die. This applies to death
through natural catastrophe as well as to any other situation.
Your own choice will dictate the way you die, as well as the time. We
are dealing now with your beliefs as you know them in this life, and leaving
for a later chapter any bleed-throughs of beliefs that may occur from
other existences. But whatever beliefs you accept, for whatever reasons,
your point of power is in the present.-----------------------For various reasons, you hold beliefs that you
can alter at any time. Many individuals die young, for example, because
they believe so strongly that old age represents a degradation of the spirit
and an insult to the body. They do not want to live under the conditions
as they believe them to be. Some quite frankly prefer to die in
what others would consider to be the most dire circumstances — swept
away by the raging waves of an ocean, or crushed in an earthquake, or
battered by the winds of a hurricane.
Slow death in a hospital, or an experience with an illness, would be
unthinkable to these same people. Some of this has to do with temperament,
and with quite normal individual differences and preferences.
Many more human beings are aware of their own impending deaths than
is generally known. They know and yet pretend they do not know, but
those who die in catastrophes choose the experience — the drama, even
the terror when that occurs. They prefer to leave physical life in a blaze of perception, battling for their lives, at a point of challenge, "fighting"
and not acquiescent.
(9:54.) Natural disasters possess the great rousing energy of powers
unleashed, of nature escaping man's discipline, and by their very characteristics
also remind man of his own psyche; for in their way such profound
events always involve creativity being born, rising even from the
bowels of the earth, reshaping the land and the lives of men.
Individual reactions follow this innate knowledge, for while man
fears the unleashed power of nature and tries to protect himself from it,
he revels in it and identifies with it at the same time.---------------The more "civilized" man becomes, the more his social structures and practices
separate him from intimate relationship with nature — and the
more natural catastrophes there will be, because underneath he senses
his great need for identification with nature; he will himself conjure it
into earthquakes, tornadoes, and floods, so that he can once again feel
not only their energy but his own.
(Pause.) As nothing else can, a great encounter with the full energy
of the elements puts man face to face with the incredible potency from
which he springs.
For many people, a natural calamity provides their first personal experience
with the realities of creaturehood's connection with the planet.
Under such conditions men who feel a part of nothing, of no structure or
family or country, can understand in a flash their comradeship with the
earth, their place upon it and its energy; through suddenly recognizing
that relationship they feel their own power for action.-"
Science Fundamentalism...is exactly what happens when there’s a significant, perceived ideological threat to one’s traditions and identity.

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Re: Precognition and prophetic dream.

Postby gorgeous » Mon May 29, 2017 10:14 pm

------seth---"An event foreseen through precognition or clairvoyance, a future event, may or may not actually occur within time as you know it. For you are seeing into probabilities, and the probable event may or may not occur, within your time system." ---------------"Now there are classes indeed where the newly dead are instructed. I used to teach some of these." ------------------"-You have each existed many times, then, as fetuses who did not make it. Not necessarily because you did not want to be born, but because those experiences were in themselves legitimate..."
Science Fundamentalism...is exactly what happens when there’s a significant, perceived ideological threat to one’s traditions and identity.

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Re: Precognition and prophetic dream.

Postby Matthew Ellard » Mon May 29, 2017 11:21 pm

gorgeous wrote:I've asked for healing and received it
Who exactly did you ask? You are spamming currently about four different conflicting "gods" Was it?

1) God ( as in the bronze age mythology Christian God)
2) Seth, the fictional alien channelled by Jane Roberts, the alcoholic.
3) The Alien Lizard people, who you claim run Earth,
4) The Illuminati members who you claim stole alien UFO technology from Roswell
5) Remote viewers, who you claim can perceive the medical technology of the future.

:lol:

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Re: Precognition and prophetic dream.

Postby Matthew Ellard » Mon May 29, 2017 11:30 pm

gorgeous wrote: (9:54.) Natural disasters possess the great rousing energy of powers
unleashed, of nature escaping man's discipline, and by their very characteristics
also remind man of his own psyche; for in their way such profound
events always involve creativity being born, rising even from the
bowels of the earth, reshaping the land and the lives of men.

Gorgeous's entire post was stolen, copied and pasted from the copyrighted religious book
The Nature of Personal Reality: Specific, Practical Techniques for Solving and Enriching the Life You Know...By Jane Roberts (1994)

Now, here is the fun part. Jane Roberts actually died in 1984 from alcoholism. The book was actually authored by remaining cult members, none of whom claimed they could channel Seth the magical alien.

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Re: Precognition and prophetic dream.

Postby gorgeous » Mon May 29, 2017 11:57 pm

not that book ...seth book...
Science Fundamentalism...is exactly what happens when there’s a significant, perceived ideological threat to one’s traditions and identity.

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Re: Precognition and prophetic dream.

Postby Matthew Ellard » Tue May 30, 2017 12:05 am

gorgeous wrote:not that book ...seth book...
You complete moron. You copied and pasted from the book I cited. :lol:

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Re: Precognition and prophetic dream.

Postby gorgeous » Tue May 30, 2017 12:13 am

no the book has no techniques
Science Fundamentalism...is exactly what happens when there’s a significant, perceived ideological threat to one’s traditions and identity.

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Re: Precognition and prophetic dream.

Postby Matthew Ellard » Tue May 30, 2017 12:24 am

gorgeous wrote:no the book has no techniques

The Nature of Personal Reality: Specific, Practical Techniques for Solving and Enriching the Life You Know...By Jane Roberts (1994)
You complete idiot. Jane Robert, your guru, claims the book specifically has practical techniques.

You have never read the book you are copying from.
:lol:


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