Preliminary Step Toward Impeachment?

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Re: Preliminary Step Toward Impeachment?

Postby Nobrot » Mon Feb 20, 2017 5:22 pm

Upton_O_Goode wrote:
...A quotation may be an eloquent way of expressing a conclusion. It is NOT an argument for that conclusion...


It's not meant to be taken literally, it refers to any purveyor of sarky one liners.

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Re: Preliminary Step Toward Impeachment?

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Mon Feb 20, 2017 5:48 pm

Twain was a satirist. Most of what he said should be read from that perspective. Applying: regard any opposition criticism with a grain or more of salt. Specifically..... indeed, we have to define insanity. If you can't find or make up a definition that would fit Trump: you ain't trying hard enough. Fantacist, ego maniac, unnutured as a child, rich from birth, survived in a tough business, surrounded by sycophants, WON THE ELECTION.

Who wouldn't be nuts?
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Re: Preliminary Step Toward Impeachment?

Postby Upton_O_Goode » Mon Feb 20, 2017 6:16 pm

ElectricMonk wrote:Without proper examination and tests, we can't tell if Trump is mentally ill in any clinical sense. And it is true that calling those you disagree with insane has a very troubled history.

Instead of considering him insane, let's think of him as a massively uniformed individual who self-educated through bogus news shows and bad TV and movies. As a TV celebrity, he makes sense of the world in terms of TV ratings, and shows like 24 (which make torture look right) had many viewers.

If you knew next to nothing about the Middle East Peace process, and someone asks you about the one-state or two-state solution, what would you say? Or about a Russian ship off the coast? Wouldn't shooting it down seem like the reasonable thing to do for someone who grew up in the Cold War? Isn't that what TV presidents do?
Trump is just completely out of his depth and clings to the one thing he believes he can do:
keep his ratings up.

And if his TV image is threatened by looking small in comparison to Obama, the logical ting for him is to deny, counterattack, anything to stay in the headlines, because that is all that matters:

Tune in to the next Trump tirade, and let us know if you were entertained.


Beautiful summary! Of course, insanity has a clinical definition that can't be established without an examination by psychiatrists. But just look at his behavior, the out-of-control rages, the inability to use any adjective that isn't a superlative about himself, the inability to say anything at all without repeating it immediately, like an echo, the complete absence of any internal fact-check before speaking. All these things and many more, if I encountered them in someone living in my neighborhood, would cause me to avoid that person as a dangerous lunatic.

It IS, of course, amusing. As HL Mencken said of the America of his day, a man would have to have a petrified diaphragm not to laugh himself to sleep in this country every night. But it's going to be a very costly form of amusement in the end.

The danger, as I see it, is three-part: (1) Trump does not believe or trust the intelligence services who have always given Presidents (up to now) a daily intelligence briefing. (2) Trump DOES believe and trust in what he thinks is reported by Fox News. (3) Trump does NOT understand even the oversimplified, biased things that Fox News reports. In fact, the whole White House, right now, suggests to me the old game of "telephone," in which one person whispers a sentence into the ear of the person on his right, that person whispers the same sentence to the person on his right, and so on, through four or five people. The last person then says out loud what he heard. It is nearly always hilariously different from the original message. That, to me, accounts for the Bowling Green Massacre and the Swedish terrorist attack. Before going out to talk, Conway and Trump had some underlings gather talking points for them. The underlings went to Fox News or equivalent, and reported to Conway/Trump what they thought they heard. Then Conway/Trump stated what they thought they had been told by the underlings. That's speculation, of course, but I think it's a plausible explanation of what we know.

What is indisputable is that the clarifications and denials later issued----Conway saying she just used the wrong word and didn't mean to say "massacre," Trump saying he was referring to a news report on the general situation in Sweden---are blatant lies. Conway spoke of "our poor brave soldiers." You don't do that unless you think some of them have been killed. Trump spoke of "what was happening in Sweden last night." A general situation doesn't take place "last night," and his words could only refer to a specific incident that didn't happen.
Last edited by Upton_O_Goode on Mon Feb 20, 2017 6:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Preliminary Step Toward Impeachment?

Postby Gawdzilla Sama » Mon Feb 20, 2017 6:22 pm

ElectricMonk wrote:Without proper examination and tests, we can't tell if Trump is mentally ill in any clinical sense.
We can also be in denial of the obvious.
And it is true that calling those you disagree with insane has a very troubled history.

And they often get it dead bang right.
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Re: Preliminary Step Toward Impeachment?

Postby Upton_O_Goode » Mon Feb 20, 2017 6:27 pm

Gawdzilla Sama wrote:
ElectricMonk wrote:Without proper examination and tests, we can't tell if Trump is mentally ill in any clinical sense.
We can also be in denial of the obvious.
And it is true that calling those you disagree with insane has a very troubled history.

And they often get it dead bang right.



So true! In the quotation Trump used of Jefferson denouncing the adversarial press, I have learned today, the press had been speculating that Jefferson had fathered a child on his slave Sally Hemmings. So, that "fake news" from 1807 was, after all, not fake. DNA testing has made it clear that Sally Hemmings' descendants have some of Jefferson's DNA. The tours at Monticello now recognize this as fact.
"Reserve a part of your wrath ; you have not seen the worst yet. You suppose that this war has been a criminal blunder and an exceptional horror ; you imagine that before long reason will prevail, and all these inferior people that govern the world will be swept aside, and your own party will reform everything and remain always in office. You are mistaken."

George Santayana, "Tipperary" (1918)

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Re: Preliminary Step Toward Impeachment?

Postby ElectricMonk » Mon Feb 20, 2017 6:29 pm

All spinning of Trump's verbal diarrhea is damage control, nothing else: Trump doesn't know what he's talking about, so it's no wonder no one can understand him.
Conway, Spicer and the rest have no special insight into his mind, just survival instinct.
I've come up with a set of rules that describe our reactions to technologies:
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Re: Preliminary Step Toward Impeachment?

Postby Upton_O_Goode » Mon Feb 20, 2017 6:31 pm

Nobrot wrote:
Upton_O_Goode wrote:
...A quotation may be an eloquent way of expressing a conclusion. It is NOT an argument for that conclusion...


It's not meant to be taken literally, it refers to any purveyor of sarky one liners.



I know, but I was asking Tom Palven what the purpose of posting the quotation was. Was it meant as an argument? As a statement that the current debate over Trump's sanity should be dismissed out of hand? I await clarification.
"Reserve a part of your wrath ; you have not seen the worst yet. You suppose that this war has been a criminal blunder and an exceptional horror ; you imagine that before long reason will prevail, and all these inferior people that govern the world will be swept aside, and your own party will reform everything and remain always in office. You are mistaken."

George Santayana, "Tipperary" (1918)

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Re: Preliminary Step Toward Impeachment?

Postby Upton_O_Goode » Mon Feb 20, 2017 6:37 pm

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:Twain was a satirist. Most of what he said should be read from that perspective. Applying: regard any opposition criticism with a grain or more of salt. Specifically..... indeed, we have to define insanity. If you can't find or make up a definition that would fit Trump: you ain't trying hard enough. Fantacist, ego maniac, unnutured as a child, rich from birth, survived in a tough business, surrounded by sycophants, WON THE ELECTION.

Who wouldn't be nuts?


:lol: :lol:

Those are good. Keep 'em coming! Like I said, we don't need a clinical diagnosis here. There is no constitutional RIGHT to be President under all circumstances. If in the judgment of Congress, the President is found to be mentally incapable, he can be removed. And, again referring to ordinary human life, if you personally knew someone in your neighborhood who behaved as Trump has done, I think you'd probably just do your best to avoid him. I know I would; I wouldn't undertake the futile task of trying to get a psychiatric diagnosis. Crazy by ordinary human standards would be good enough for me to use that label.
"Reserve a part of your wrath ; you have not seen the worst yet. You suppose that this war has been a criminal blunder and an exceptional horror ; you imagine that before long reason will prevail, and all these inferior people that govern the world will be swept aside, and your own party will reform everything and remain always in office. You are mistaken."

George Santayana, "Tipperary" (1918)

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Re: Preliminary Step Toward Impeachment?

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Mon Feb 20, 2017 6:38 pm

Upton_O_Goode wrote: I was asking Tom Palven what the purpose of posting the quotation was. Was it meant as an argument? As a statement that the current debate over Trump's sanity should be dismissed out of hand? I await clarification.

Unless for some reason you care what TP "personally thinks".... the statement stands on its own. Ambiguous.... as all statements are. And a fine conversation proceeds regardless.
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Re: Preliminary Step Toward Impeachment?

Postby Upton_O_Goode » Mon Feb 20, 2017 6:39 pm

ElectricMonk wrote:All spinning of Trump's verbal diarrhea is damage control, nothing else: Trump doesn't know what he's talking about, so it's no wonder no one can understand him.
Conway, Spicer and the rest have no special insight into his mind, just survival instinct.



In fact, I've now heard that both Japanese and French interpreters say they have to filter what he says through their own minds, because the literal sense of his sentences are too absurd to translate.
"Reserve a part of your wrath ; you have not seen the worst yet. You suppose that this war has been a criminal blunder and an exceptional horror ; you imagine that before long reason will prevail, and all these inferior people that govern the world will be swept aside, and your own party will reform everything and remain always in office. You are mistaken."

George Santayana, "Tipperary" (1918)

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Re: Preliminary Step Toward Impeachment?

Postby JO 753 » Mon Feb 20, 2017 6:43 pm

Putin iz smart.

A great plan for Russia woud be (iz?) to turn America into the bad guy. Getting an egomaniac simpleton into the pozition uv Commander In Chief makes it eazy. All he haz to do iz provoke an unreazonable military action agenst anybody and play up the collateral damaj.

With Trump, all it will take iz a tweet from sumwun in the middle east calling him a snot noze rich punk who needz a spanking.
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Re: Preliminary Step Toward Impeachment?

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Mon Feb 20, 2017 6:46 pm

I can't google or search right now, but I don't think insanity is any bar or impeachable offense. You know: its a legal thing. Unluckily...hard to be insane and not commit petty crimes and misdemeanors as well....as Trump has been doing from day one. ((Thinking specifically of his Post Office turned into Hotel violation. Seems pretty quiet on that issue?))

Its a close call, but interesting if you like the subject: who is more nuts: Pence or Trump? I'm not sure Pence is "worse" as I don't know him...but he is a team player meaning the country will simply be pulled to the far right...all to create a backlash and a return towards center on the next round.

Back and forth it goes, a ship with a damaged rudder, an electorate without an education or memory.
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Re: Preliminary Step Toward Impeachment?

Postby ElectricMonk » Mon Feb 20, 2017 6:55 pm

There is no barrier to impeachment save a vote: Trump could be diagnosed with violent psychopathy and would stay in office until voted out.
I've come up with a set of rules that describe our reactions to technologies:
Spoiler:
1. Anything that is in the world when you’re born is normal and ordinary and is just a natural part of the way the world works.
2. Anything that's invented between when you’re fifteen and thirty-five is new and exciting and revolutionary and you can probably get a career in it.
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Re: Preliminary Step Toward Impeachment?

Postby scrmbldggs » Mon Feb 20, 2017 7:05 pm

Upton_O_Goode wrote:...(2) Trump DOES believe and trust in what he thinks is reported by Fox News. (3) Trump does NOT understand even the oversimplified, biased things that Fox News reports...Before going out to talk, Conway and Trump had some underlings gather talking points for them. The underlings went to Fox News or equivalent, and reported to Conway/Trump what they thought they heard...

That's possible, but considering the speed at which some of the tweets are posted, that's fresh off the orange's press - no middle dishwasher.
.

Lard, save me from your followers.

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Re: Preliminary Step Toward Impeachment?

Postby Upton_O_Goode » Mon Feb 20, 2017 9:13 pm

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:I can't google or search right now, but I don't think insanity is any bar or impeachable offense. You know: its a legal thing. Unluckily...hard to be insane and not commit petty crimes and misdemeanors as well....as Trump has been doing from day one. ((Thinking specifically of his Post Office turned into Hotel violation. Seems pretty quiet on that issue?))

Its a close call, but interesting if you like the subject: who is more nuts: Pence or Trump? I'm not sure Pence is "worse" as I don't know him...but he is a team player meaning the country will simply be pulled to the far right...all to create a backlash and a return towards center on the next round.

Back and forth it goes, a ship with a damaged rudder, an electorate without an education or memory.



I'm a little more hopeful. It is (I think) the 25th amendment that allows Congress to declare a President unfit or incapacitated. As I posted above, we don't have to meet a clinical definition of insanity. That is, we don't have to prove the President is mentally or emotionally incapable of carrying out the activities of daily life. To paraphrase Garrison Keillor, we can allow that he is capable of ordering fried chicken in a restaurant. But his insanity has to be judged against the background of his duties. His "activities of daily life" are a considerable sight more serious than yours and mine. Accordingly, it shouldn't require a clinical finding of insanity to judge him unfit to carry out his duties.
"Reserve a part of your wrath ; you have not seen the worst yet. You suppose that this war has been a criminal blunder and an exceptional horror ; you imagine that before long reason will prevail, and all these inferior people that govern the world will be swept aside, and your own party will reform everything and remain always in office. You are mistaken."

George Santayana, "Tipperary" (1918)

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Re: Preliminary Step Toward Impeachment?

Postby Upton_O_Goode » Mon Feb 20, 2017 9:14 pm

scrmbldggs wrote:
Upton_O_Goode wrote:...(2) Trump DOES believe and trust in what he thinks is reported by Fox News. (3) Trump does NOT understand even the oversimplified, biased things that Fox News reports...Before going out to talk, Conway and Trump had some underlings gather talking points for them. The underlings went to Fox News or equivalent, and reported to Conway/Trump what they thought they heard...

That's possible, but considering the speed at which some of the tweets are posted, that's fresh off the orange's press - no middle dishwasher.



True. I stand corrected on that point.
"Reserve a part of your wrath ; you have not seen the worst yet. You suppose that this war has been a criminal blunder and an exceptional horror ; you imagine that before long reason will prevail, and all these inferior people that govern the world will be swept aside, and your own party will reform everything and remain always in office. You are mistaken."

George Santayana, "Tipperary" (1918)

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Re: Preliminary Step Toward Impeachment?

Postby Gord » Mon Feb 20, 2017 9:28 pm

Upton_O_Goode wrote:
ElectricMonk wrote:All spinning of Trump's verbal diarrhea is damage control, nothing else: Trump doesn't know what he's talking about, so it's no wonder no one can understand him.
Conway, Spicer and the rest have no special insight into his mind, just survival instinct.

In fact, I've now heard that both Japanese and French interpreters say they have to filter what he says through their own minds, because the literal sense of his sentences are too absurd to translate.

Same with English translators -- which is probably why he thinks the news tells lies whenever they quote him.
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Re: Preliminary Step Toward Impeachment?

Postby Gord » Mon Feb 20, 2017 9:32 pm

JO 753 wrote:A great plan for Russia woud be (iz?) to turn America into the bad guy.

That's already been done, ages ago. America has a terrible habit of turning itself into the bad guy without noticing, then being shocked to find out people in other countries hate what's been done to them.

According to a few youtube videos I've seen, there are people in Russia who believe that the US is trying to take over the world. They believe Americans are constantly interfering with elections in other nations, and that it's appropriate to turn the tables on them in response.
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Re: Preliminary Step Toward Impeachment?

Postby JO 753 » Mon Feb 20, 2017 10:43 pm

Ok, turn America into the worst guy.
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Re: Preliminary Step Toward Impeachment?

Postby Gawdzilla Sama » Mon Feb 20, 2017 11:17 pm

T.rump had blasted Fox along with those who actually tell the truth. He had no filters.

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Re: Preliminary Step Toward Impeachment?

Postby scrmbldggs » Tue Feb 21, 2017 2:15 am

Ha, I missed that. Granted, I don't follow his every toot, but he said that FAUX had been treating him nicely in tweet(s?) and then went for his windmills:

"The FAKE NEWS media (failing @nytimes, @NBCNews, @ABC, @CBS, @CNN) is not my enemy, it is the enemy of the American People!

— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) February 17, 2017"
.

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Re: Preliminary Step Toward Impeachment?

Postby Upton_O_Goode » Tue Feb 21, 2017 12:06 pm

Gord wrote:
JO 753 wrote:A great plan for Russia woud be (iz?) to turn America into the bad guy.

That's already been done, ages ago. America has a terrible habit of turning itself into the bad guy without noticing, then being shocked to find out people in other countries hate what's been done to them.

According to a few youtube videos I've seen, there are people in Russia who believe that the US is trying to take over the world. They believe Americans are constantly interfering with elections in other nations, and that it's appropriate to turn the tables on them in response.



Golly, where would they get such an idea? Just because the US campaigned in Ukraine during the last election, or tried to engineer a coup against Hugo Chavez in Venezuela, or kicked the Sandinistas out of Nicaragua, or Noriega out of Panama, or Allende out of Chile, or Aristide out of Haiti, or Juan Bosch out of the Dominican Republic, or Diem out of Viet Nam, or Mossadegh out of Iran, or....

It seems to me I've seen a trailer posted here for the 2004 movie "Team America World Police." That would seem to be apropos at this point.

On the Russian point of view, here's a video that explains how they look at things, with subtitles in English. Of course, it omits all the horrible violence and oppression that have accompanied the Russian occupations and looks only on the positive contributions (which I don't deny) that Russians have made where they have occupied. It's thus completely one-sided, like Trump's view of the world:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aEaw6ktxg-8
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George Santayana, "Tipperary" (1918)

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Re: Preliminary Step Toward Impeachment?

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Tue Feb 21, 2017 5:34 pm

Upton_O_Goode wrote:
bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:I can't google or search right now, but I don't think insanity is any bar or impeachable offense. You know: its a legal thing. Unluckily...hard to be insane and not commit petty crimes and misdemeanors as well....as Trump has been doing from day one. ((Thinking specifically of his Post Office turned into Hotel violation. Seems pretty quiet on that issue?))

Its a close call, but interesting if you like the subject: who is more nuts: Pence or Trump? I'm not sure Pence is "worse" as I don't know him...but he is a team player meaning the country will simply be pulled to the far right...all to create a backlash and a return towards center on the next round.

Back and forth it goes, a ship with a damaged rudder, an electorate without an education or memory.



I'm a little more hopeful. It is (I think) the 25th amendment that allows Congress to declare a President unfit or incapacitated. As I posted above, we don't have to meet a clinical definition of insanity. That is, we don't have to prove the President is mentally or emotionally incapable of carrying out the activities of daily life. To paraphrase Garrison Keillor, we can allow that he is capable of ordering fried chicken in a restaurant. But his insanity has to be judged against the background of his duties. His "activities of daily life" are a considerable sight more serious than yours and mine. Accordingly, it shouldn't require a clinical finding of insanity to judge him unfit to carry out his duties.


I can google now. I think this will happen, its much quicker than impeachment:

25th Amend, SS4: "Whenever the Vice President and a majority of either the principal officers of the executive departments or of such other body as Congress may by law provide, transmit to the President pro tempore of the Senate and the Speaker of the House of Representatives their written declaration that the President is unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office, the Vice President shall immediately assume the powers and duties of the office as Acting President."...with further process if the President "objects".

I've been off my "news routine" for 2 months now. Wow. Its like I woke up in an alternate universe: Trump is crazy.... just look. Large distributed anti-Trump demonstrations. congress creeps already talking impeachment. More of Trump and his "business" coming out.

Holy cow. Its an Alt Universe production.

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Re: Preliminary Step Toward Impeachment?

Postby Upton_O_Goode » Tue Feb 21, 2017 5:40 pm

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:Holy cow. Its an Alt Universe production.

Ain't reality a Bitch?



Ain't it just? I worry only that things in DC may stabilize. That would be awful, if the current situation becomes the new norm.
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Re: Preliminary Step Toward Impeachment?

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Tue Feb 21, 2017 5:55 pm

Crazy and Corrupt could become the new norm........but I think not now in the USA. other factors would have to be present that in fear of them, I will not even name. The Crazy is new, the corrupt is a given..... thereby making reality dawn a bit slower than the not crazy would prefer.

I really don't see how the 25th or impeachment will not happen in the first term. T.Rump is just too far out on his own limb.......WITH alternatives readily available.

It won't be fun no matter what. i think I've heard it summed up as: "Elections have consequences."

Ha, ha.................. So corrupt.... that in 2020, all too many people will continue to think, say, and be believed that "there is not a bucket full of spit worth of difference between the R's and the D's." ===== Just look.
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Re: Preliminary Step Toward Impeachment?

Postby scrmbldggs » Tue Feb 21, 2017 6:00 pm

.

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Re: Preliminary Step Toward Impeachment?

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Tue Feb 21, 2017 6:19 pm

eggs: worth the quick read....thanks. I predicted weeks ago that T.Rump would simply quit the office. His private fantasies are so available and so much more fun. Hmmmmmm........yes. I agree. Your link will happen FIRST, among all the other growing and looming on stream developments.

The other is assassination...... by his own team, not his adversaries. The nutters of course...... don't think T.Rump is going far enough, fast enough.

......................................... thats what crazy is.
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Re: Preliminary Step Toward Impeachment?

Postby JO 753 » Wed Feb 22, 2017 1:17 am

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Re: Preliminary Step Toward Impeachment?

Postby scrmbldggs » Wed Feb 22, 2017 1:30 am

You might be interested in reading this one and this one.

This is from Monday
http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/wireStor ... d-45616408 wrote:
Kremlin: Trump associates' peace plan for Ukraine 'absurd'

The newspaper said the peace plan was the work of Felix Sater, a business associate who has helped Trump try to find business in Russia, and Trump's personal lawyer, Michael Cohen. They worked with Andrii Artemenko, who is running a pro-Russian political opposition movement in Ukraine, which was aided by Trump's former campaign manager Paul Manafort.
.

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Re: Preliminary Step Toward Impeachment?

Postby JO 753 » Wed Feb 22, 2017 2:06 am

That sendz a little lite in James Comeyz direction.
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Re: Preliminary Step Toward Impeachment?

Postby JO 753 » Wed Feb 22, 2017 2:09 am

Remember back in the late 90z or early 00z wen the rumorz uv amending the constitution to allow Schwartzzenneggar to run for Prez were being bandied about?

I think he coud be a great Prezident. He certainly woud hav been better than Bush, and I may hav even voted for him rather than Hillary if he wuz on the ballot for 2016.

The point uv barring forin born sitizenz uv the US from running for Prez iz the question uv loyalty.

It makes sens that you dont want the top dog to hav any forin loyalty intruding into the picture, wether real or not.

The problem iz that having forin born az the only box to check in the disqualification due to loyalty failure section uv the job application iz insufficient.

Trump haz clearly sided with Russia or Putin so many timez in public statements and haz so many shady Russian connectionz that there iz no question that hiz loyalty iz divided.

And that it's with America'z most adversarial rival makes it an absurd affront to the founderz. 'forin born' iz like worrying that the paint color iznt wut you ordered on your 2017 Caddilac, wile ignoring that the vehicle iz actually a 1984 Lada.

If its Trump's involvment with Russia vs Schwartzzenneggar'z fond memoryz uv hiz youth in Austria, therez no contest. Giv me Prezident Arnold!
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Re: Preliminary Step Toward Impeachment?

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Wed Feb 22, 2017 2:31 am

Its not. But nice kill shot on the straw man.

FYI: his record in Ca is not stellar. Not horrible...but not special in any way. very status quo performance. It took Jerry Brown to balance the budget. Arnold was too beholding to the powers that got him elected: aka: typical Puke.
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Re: Preliminary Step Toward Impeachment?

Postby scrmbldggs » Wed Feb 22, 2017 2:42 am

I might be mistaken, but he seems to have learned something from it.
.

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Re: Preliminary Step Toward Impeachment?

Postby JO 753 » Wed Feb 22, 2017 3:32 am

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:FYI: his record in Ca is not stellar. Not horrible...but not special in any way.


Wut stood out to me wuz how the demz blocked him on just about everything, good or bad for the State. Just like the GoPs did to Obama. Just like the Demz in IL where I liv are doing to Rauner.

You cant really juj sumwunz performans under theze conditionz.
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Re: Preliminary Step Toward Impeachment?

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Wed Feb 22, 2017 3:45 am

Jo...I didn't and don't follow my state's news much at all. I can assume alot to say Arnold was stopped if he wanted Trickle Down Tax Cuts for the Rich to solve the on going deficit problem. Thats valid. I am only "guessing" to say Sacto Dems did not pull an Obama Block on him..... but I could be wrong.
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Re: Preliminary Step Toward Impeachment?

Postby OlegTheBatty » Wed Feb 22, 2017 7:34 pm

Of course, everybody knows that 'natural born' means 'not by caesarean'.
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Re: Preliminary Step Toward Impeachment?

Postby ElectricMonk » Wed Feb 22, 2017 7:46 pm

OlegTheBatty wrote:Of course, everybody knows that 'natural born' means 'not by caesarean'.


Just ask McDuff.
I've come up with a set of rules that describe our reactions to technologies:
Spoiler:
1. Anything that is in the world when you’re born is normal and ordinary and is just a natural part of the way the world works.
2. Anything that's invented between when you’re fifteen and thirty-five is new and exciting and revolutionary and you can probably get a career in it.
3. Anything invented after you're thirty-five is against the natural order of things.
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Re: Preliminary Step Toward Impeachment?

Postby Upton_O_Goode » Wed Feb 22, 2017 9:46 pm

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:Crazy and Corrupt could become the new norm........but I think not now in the USA. other factors would have to be present that in fear of them, I will not even name. The Crazy is new, the corrupt is a given..... thereby making reality dawn a bit slower than the not crazy would prefer.

I really don't see how the 25th or impeachment will not happen in the first term. T.Rump is just too far out on his own limb.......WITH alternatives readily available.

It won't be fun no matter what. i think I've heard it summed up as: "Elections have consequences."

Ha, ha.................. So corrupt.... that in 2020, all too many people will continue to think, say, and be believed that "there is not a bucket full of spit worth of difference between the R's and the D's." ===== Just look.


The trouble is that everything you say is reasonable and makes sense. Don't forget, this is TRUMP'S AMERICA. It's not intended to make sense.

I too long for the day when the majority of the cabinet and the VP will approach Congress with a request to install Pence as acting President until 2020 or the Apocalypse, whichever comes first. But then I remember that Trump doesn't choose people for their ability to put the country first or even to reason. He chooses them for their ability to grovel to him. Pence himself was chosen that way. But possibly, they may see, so to speak, the handwriting on the wall, and simply tell Trump he must resign or face a 25th-amendment procedure. That looks a bit more plausible. I cling to that hope.

Again, not that a Pence presidency will be any better. As I've posted elsewhere, it would be replacing Caligula with John Calvin.
"Reserve a part of your wrath ; you have not seen the worst yet. You suppose that this war has been a criminal blunder and an exceptional horror ; you imagine that before long reason will prevail, and all these inferior people that govern the world will be swept aside, and your own party will reform everything and remain always in office. You are mistaken."

George Santayana, "Tipperary" (1918)

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Re: Preliminary Step Toward Impeachment?

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Thu Feb 23, 2017 12:43 am

Upton_O_Goode wrote: Don't forget, this is TRUMP'S AMERICA. It's not intended to make sense..

Just the opposite is what sets up the impeachment dynamic. aka: this is not Trump's america in any meaningful "cultural" sense. Most idiotic dumb ass R voters are in fact democrats in their values and certainly in their needs. they are just that G-D STOOOOOOOPID. Ha, ha: ranchers and farmers in Ca who voted for Trump to get rid of the illegals are already complaining their labor force is drying up. Seems illegals don't want to "violate the law" by working illegally....guess they'll have to turn to crime where if not caught, they aren't tracked.

Of note: the Electoral College is also "not American"....in culture. Its only the "fact of the matter" that is screwing things up.
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Re: Preliminary Step Toward Impeachment?

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Thu Feb 23, 2017 12:45 am

Upton_O_Goode wrote:..... it would be replacing Caligula with John Calvin.

That is a good one. Kudos.
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