How do you guys function in such a irrational world?

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How do you guys function in such a irrational world?

Postby Zetsubou_Sensei » Tue Jul 26, 2016 11:00 am

Throughout my university years, the more I learn about critical thinking and what is far likely to be true (Science), I've been despairing at the copious amounts of irrationality, twisted information, and magical thinking that is pervasive in the world. I have also been demotivated in terms of becoming a teacher because of the sheer amount of people who think being ignorant is virtuous and how teaching them to think critically is to 'convert' them somehow to atheism. Most other student teachers, including the ones I know of, believe that science is vastly bs in the sense that it can explain things but is is inherently inferior to spirituality and religion in the sense that no one knows how the brain or universe works besides religions, and scientists just disregard this because it goes against their beliefs. This students also go on to teach their students these ideas.

I have also noticed the large amounts of people who wish for their children to be educated insofar that they don't question their beliefs. I mean, what's the point of education then? Schools seem to be teaching what's emotionally preferred rather than what is likely to be true. Even in the media, pseudoscience and religion as truth seems to run rampant while some even take it more than seriously.

How do you guys cope with this? How are you still able to go on and continue what you're doing while seeing many things infected with magical thinking portrayed as truth knowing that many people may take this seriously?

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Re: How do you guys function in such a irrational world?

Postby Gawdzilla Sama » Tue Jul 26, 2016 11:12 am

First off, consider that it may not be as bad as you say. The world functions in spite of the woo thinking for a good reason, most people say what they're supposed so say, but few believe it. Almost all my anti-science relatives have cell phones and computers. They don't object to hi-tech when it benefits them, the best sign of hypocrisy.
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Re: How do you guys function in such a irrational world?

Postby gorgeous » Tue Jul 26, 2016 11:47 am

magical thinking from scientists..... ---“Concerning matter, we have been all wrong. What we have called matter is energy, whose vibration has been so lowered as to be perceptible to the senses. There is no matter.”
― Albert Einstein ---------------------- “If you want to find the secrets of the universe, think in terms of energy, frequency and vibration.”
― Nikola Tesla ----------------------"If quantum mechanics hasn’t profoundly shocked you, you haven’t understood it yet. Everything we call real is made of things that cannot be regarded as real.” -― Niels Bohr, Essays 1932-1957 on Atomic Physics and Human Knowledge ---------------------."------------Henry "Fritz" Schaefer (Graham Perdue Professor of Chemistry and director of the Center for Computational Quantum Chemistry at the University of Georgia): "The significance and joy in my science comes in those occasional moments of discovering something new and saying to myself, 'So that's how God did it.' My goal is to understand a little corner of God's plan."

Wernher von Braun (Pioneer rocket engineer) "I find it as difficult to understand a scientist who does not acknowledge the presence of a superior rationality behind the existence of the universe as it is to comprehend a theologian who would deny the advances of science." ---
Science Fundamentalism...is exactly what happens when there’s a significant, perceived ideological threat to one’s traditions and identity.

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Re: How do you guys function in such a irrational world?

Postby Gawdzilla Sama » Tue Jul 26, 2016 12:01 pm

And let's not forget quote mining.
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Re: How do you guys function in such a irrational world?

Postby TJrandom » Tue Jul 26, 2016 1:39 pm

Sensei... I too don`t think it is as bad as you imply – or it is possible that you are in an environment that is oppressive. By this I mean a college with a religious pedigree, or a work environment where zealots have been allowed to push woo, instead of just accomplish their work while completely leaving religion at the door. If this is the case, you may need to move on – to a less oppressive an environment, or if you are in a position to do so, restrict woo in the environment.

There was a time when my station didn`t permit me to reject woo talk, so I tried to fit in – speaking the woo, but not walking it. Later as I aged I was able to openly reject woo and shut down the conversion attempts. Still later I took administrative action to split the work environments of workplace woo purveyors and followed thru with restrictions placed in annual reviews and in one case a disciplinary letter. Firing the employee would have been the next step.

So – outlive it, or change it if you can.

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Re: How do you guys function in such a irrational world?

Postby gorgeous » Tue Jul 26, 2016 2:13 pm

" Science is apt to turn into a religion, if it has not done so already. Any fanaticism is truly vicious, one-sided, limiting, and causes an alarming shrinkage of focus that is explosive and dangerous "
Seth session 34
Science Fundamentalism...is exactly what happens when there’s a significant, perceived ideological threat to one’s traditions and identity.

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Re: How do you guys function in such a irrational world?

Postby Gawdzilla Sama » Tue Jul 26, 2016 2:43 pm

You spelled "{!#%@}" wrong.
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Re: How do you guys function in such a irrational world?

Postby scrmbldggs » Tue Jul 26, 2016 3:46 pm

:lol:
Hi, Io the lurker.

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Re: How do you guys function in such a irrational world?

Postby Aztexan » Tue Jul 26, 2016 5:27 pm

I cope by using large amounts of cynicism, not giving a {!#%@}, and weed.
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Re: How do you guys function in such a irrational world?

Postby Monster » Tue Jul 26, 2016 7:27 pm

Zetsubou_Sensei wrote: How do you guys function in such a irrational world?

I isolate myself from large portions of humanity.
Listening twice as much as you speak is a sign of wisdom.

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Re: How do you guys function in such a irrational world?

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Tue Jul 26, 2016 8:13 pm

Granting arguendo the world is irrational.... so what? YOU are not in contact with "the world" but rather your family/tribe/nation/work group/ and so forth. YOU connect with and reject those that share your beliefs/attitudes/character both rational and irrational. When you recognize what makes you happy.....its mostly not rational.

Being Rational: over rated and hardly used.
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Re: How do you guys function in such a irrational world?

Postby Zetsubou_Sensei » Wed Jul 27, 2016 4:40 am

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:Granting arguendo the world is irrational.... so what? YOU are not in contact with "the world" but rather your family/tribe/nation/work group/ and so forth. YOU connect with and reject those that share your beliefs/attitudes/character both rational and irrational. When you recognize what makes you happy.....its mostly not rational.

Being Rational: over rated and hardly used.


True, I almost forgot I have a habit of over generalising. However, despite the fact that it is likely that almost everything that we do is irrational, there are degrees of irrationality. One can be irrational, but not to the degree of a person believing that the Saurans (Reptilian overlords) are among us, as this is an unfalsifiable argument with no evidence to support it. A belief such as the latter can have aversive effects in the sense that science can be thought of as a conspiracy and hunting down scientists can make the person with such beliefs happy.

I care not for the beliefs themselves, whether or not they make the person happy or not, etc. but the way in which the person came to that belief and what they make of it. Granted that I prefer not to argue over arbitrary things such as my way of dressing is better than yours, however, if the claim of my way of dressing is better is taken to have a large truth value and taken as inherent truth, then I have an issue if one cannot critically think to provide apposite arguments. However, if the person made the claim fully knowing that their claim is wrong, then I have no problem with that because it becomes obvious they are doing it for emotional reasons.

The place in which I live has a plethora of cultures, each with their own superstitions to bestow upon others. I call this hybrid superstitions, as they are amalgamations of different superstitions of different cultures. These infect those in my vicinity to think that science is baloney, and that when people are exposed to critical thinking, it is virtuous to walk out of lectures theatres, beat up atheists, shout at lecturers for trying to convert them to atheism, etc.

I bear no animosity to those who are irrational to a lesser degree and still criticise and question their own beliefs while having a reasonable dialogue when questioned in an apposite context, just those who wear blindfolds over their eyes substituting ideas that are likely to be true with emotionally congruent ideas.

I sometimes think of such types of thinking as barriers to the irony of progress. In Pessimistic philosophy, the irony of progress refers to how our knowledge and inquiry are wasting away delusions which helps people remain sane in the sense that these delusions provide inherent meaning for their existence. So, gaining knowledge may lead to unhappiness (the universe doesn't care about you).

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Re: How do you guys function in such a irrational world?

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Wed Jul 27, 2016 5:23 am

I note the structure: Truth recognized.......... then the "However" ............... and the truth ignored..... or at best quibbled with.

Of less importance: Lots of "I" in your quibbles. Not "the world" involved, but YOU. Very telling.

"I sometimes think of such types of thinking as barriers to the irony of progress." /// Rhetorical word salad. Sounds nice = means nothing.

"So, gaining knowledge may lead to unhappiness (the universe doesn't care about you)." /// Press on to acceptance and nirvana.
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Re: How do you guys function in such a irrational world?

Postby JO 753 » Wed Jul 27, 2016 7:17 am

Zetsubou_Sensei wrote:How do you guys cope with this?


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Re: How do you guys function in such a irrational world?

Postby ElectricMonk » Wed Jul 27, 2016 7:47 am

I sometimes think of the current variety of beliefs and opinions as the ideological equivalent of the Cambrian Explosion: with our living standards and ability to globally communicate, a plethora of opinions is surviving that under more adverse conditions would be ditched in a second.

We have:
- The Dinosaurs who think that what we have done in the past not only will work forever but that nothing else can
- The Rodents who think that all it takes to make the world perfect is to multiply their followers until everyone agrees on one idea which will work because everyone agrees with it, not because it makes sense
- The Dolphins who think that being more intelligent than anyone else is enough without actually doing anything about it
- The large number of domesticated animals who have the intelligence to see that things are much better than they used to be and just want to get on with their lives.
I've come up with a set of rules that describe our reactions to technologies:
Spoiler:
1. Anything that is in the world when you’re born is normal and ordinary and is just a natural part of the way the world works.
2. Anything that's invented between when you’re fifteen and thirty-five is new and exciting and revolutionary and you can probably get a career in it.
3. Anything invented after you're thirty-five is against the natural order of things.
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Re: How do you guys function in such a irrational world?

Postby Aztexan » Wed Jul 27, 2016 8:06 am

JO 753 wrote:
Zetsubou_Sensei wrote:How do you guys cope with this?


A daily diet uv The Simpsonz, Family Guy and American Dad.


That's what I said
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Re: How do you guys function in such a irrational world?

Postby Gord » Wed Jul 27, 2016 8:07 am

JO 753 wrote:
Zetsubou_Sensei wrote:How do you guys cope with this?


A daily diet uv The Simpsonz, Family Guy and American Dad.

I also watch cartoons, but not those ones. (I mean, I would watch them, but they're not on when I'm watching cartoons. Instead I'm watching Johnny Test and Jimmy Two Shoes (ugh I think I'd be better off with drugs, to be honest). Okay, I watch youtube videos instead, then.
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Re: How do you guys function in such a irrational world?

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Wed Aug 10, 2016 5:25 am

I used to drink a lot. Now I just laugh at completely inappropriate things.

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Re: How do you guys function in such a irrational world?

Postby gorgeous » Wed Aug 10, 2016 12:12 pm

is this rational?? -------------------"If quantum mechanics hasn’t profoundly shocked you, you haven’t understood it yet. Everything we call real is made of things that cannot be regarded as real.” -― Niels Bohr, Essays 1932-1957 on Atomic Physics and Human Knowledge
Science Fundamentalism...is exactly what happens when there’s a significant, perceived ideological threat to one’s traditions and identity.

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Re: How do you guys function in such a irrational world?

Postby Gawdzilla Sama » Wed Aug 10, 2016 12:30 pm

The world isn't irrational, just the people.
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Re: How do you guys function in such a irrational world?

Postby ElectricMonk » Wed Aug 10, 2016 12:52 pm

Just because QM goes against our intuitions doesn't make it irrational. Indeed it might be the most rational theory every developed, with mathematical descriptions that allow calculations with almost ludicrous precision.
I've come up with a set of rules that describe our reactions to technologies:
Spoiler:
1. Anything that is in the world when you’re born is normal and ordinary and is just a natural part of the way the world works.
2. Anything that's invented between when you’re fifteen and thirty-five is new and exciting and revolutionary and you can probably get a career in it.
3. Anything invented after you're thirty-five is against the natural order of things.
- Douglas Adams

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Re: How do you guys function in such a irrational world?

Postby gorgeous » Wed Aug 10, 2016 1:38 pm

so nothing is real?
Science Fundamentalism...is exactly what happens when there’s a significant, perceived ideological threat to one’s traditions and identity.

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Re: How do you guys function in such a irrational world?

Postby Gawdzilla Sama » Wed Aug 10, 2016 2:26 pm

gorgeous wrote:so nothing is real?

You missed some poop on that "sentence". Wipe them down better, please, before you post them.
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