The Economy of Heating Water

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The Economy of Heating Water

Postby Rob Lister » Fri Aug 30, 2013 1:41 pm

Yesterday morning, my wife informed me that the water heater was leaking. I dutifully called my personal plumber and he advised I needed replace it; the bottom had rusted out. He'll replace it at cost + 2 lunches. I asked how much and he guessed ...

Price ~$510.

Last week, my Keriug k-cup coffee maker started acting weird and I looked to replace it. I did some shopping and ...

Price ~$110

Either water heaters are way too cheap or coffee makers are way too expensive.

But that's the economy of heating water

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Re: The Economy of Heating Water

Postby Major Malfunction » Fri Aug 30, 2013 1:51 pm

4.2 joules/mill/degree.

I paid $1100 for a new water heater. Please give me your plumber's number. Does he do work in Australia?

And I paid $95 for a coffee machine.

To answer your question, yes. Coffee machines are overpriced.

But the product is much tastier. Have you tasted hot shower water?
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Re: The Economy of Heating Water

Postby Rob Lister » Fri Aug 30, 2013 2:11 pm

I'm a big fan of the Sci Channel's show How It's Made. I remember the episode on water heaters. There's actually a lot of engineering that goes into them and I gained respect for the quiet and humble appliance in the watching of it; just making sure they don't blow your house up is a real technological feat. The bulk alone would seem to warrant more money. The one that rusted out worked solidly for 22 years. My plumber buddy told me it would likely have lasted another twenty if I had flushed it out annually as per the scheduled maintenance guidelines in the owners manual. There was snark and ridicule in his voice. I felt shamed. I offered him a cup of Black Silk coffee.

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Re: The Economy of Heating Water

Postby Major Malfunction » Fri Aug 30, 2013 2:37 pm

The ones around here only last 10 years, 15 tops. My last one exploded in a cloud of steam that engulfed the entire yard.

And I do a mean double-shot espresso, latte, cappuccino. As good as you'll find in any cafe. And Melbourne is the cafe centre of Australia. I travelled, and discovered this first hand.

Everything else was either dish &/or arse water.
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Re: The Economy of Heating Water

Postby Tom Palven » Fri Aug 30, 2013 2:48 pm

I think that the Rival "12-cup" coffee maker I got at Wal-Mart cost an astounding $8 plus change, and it's been working fine for a year or so. The Folger's 100% Columbian I'm brewing at the moment (Usually get what's on sale.) tastes good. I figured no matter what kind or brand of coffee maker I bought I wasn't going to get the aroma and flavor you can get at coffee shops, so why spend the money?

I've tried some of the most expensive coffees available with the exception of the ones made from beans collected from coati dung, or whatever, and still find that I don't get more flavor and aroma that I get from Folgers and other common brands. If you have a favourite, please let me know.
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Re: The Economy of Heating Water

Postby Major Malfunction » Fri Aug 30, 2013 2:54 pm

Filter coffee isn't coffee.
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Re: The Economy of Heating Water

Postby Tom Palven » Fri Aug 30, 2013 4:50 pm

[quote="Major Malfunction"]Filter coffee isn't coffee.[/quote

That's good to know. :roll: ]
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Re: The Economy of Heating Water

Postby Austin Harper » Fri Aug 30, 2013 5:03 pm

I paid ~$700 for a new water heater. I paid $18 for a coffee pot. I don't use Keurig because I'm not going to make coffees all day; I just brew a pot in the morning and drink it all day.
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Re: The Economy of Heating Water

Postby Rob Lister » Fri Aug 30, 2013 5:40 pm

Tom-Palven wrote:I think that the Rival "12-cup" coffee maker I got at Wal-Mart cost an astounding $8 plus change, and it's been working fine for a year or so. The Folger's 100% Columbian I'm brewing at the moment (Usually get what's on sale.) tastes good. I figured no matter what kind or brand of coffee maker I bought I wasn't going to get the aroma and flavor you can get at coffee shops, so why spend the money?

I've tried some of the most expensive coffees available with the exception of the ones made from beans collected from coati dung, or whatever, and still find that I don't get more flavor and aroma that I get from Folgers and other common brands. If you have a favourite, please let me know.


I'm actually partial to k-cup folgers black silk.

I think drip coffee makers make a fine first cup. And buy the time I'm ready for the second cup, it's all nasty. Making one cup in a drip maker never comes out right.

The k-cup costs about 50 cents at a megastore; about the same as a ten-cup scoop of regular folgers.

so there.

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Re: The Economy of Heating Water

Postby Major Malfunction » Fri Aug 30, 2013 6:17 pm

Tom-Palven wrote:
Major Malfunction wrote:Filter coffee isn't coffee.[/quote

That's good to know. :roll: ]

You want to have an argument about this?

Take off your gloves.

I'll totally barista your arse.
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Re: The Economy of Heating Water

Postby Tom Palven » Fri Aug 30, 2013 7:30 pm

Major Malfunction wrote:
Tom-Palven wrote:
Major Malfunction wrote:Filter coffee isn't coffee.[/quote

That's good to know. :roll: ]

You want to have an argument about this?

Take off your gloves.

I'll totally barista your arse.


I'm not wearing gloves. Lay down that friggin' gun. :katana:
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Re: The Economy of Heating Water

Postby Tom Palven » Fri Aug 30, 2013 7:39 pm

Rob Lister wrote:
Tom-Palven wrote:I think that the Rival "12-cup" coffee maker I got at Wal-Mart cost an astounding $8 plus change, and it's been working fine for a year or so. The Folger's 100% Columbian I'm brewing at the moment (Usually get what's on sale.) tastes good. I figured no matter what kind or brand of coffee maker I bought I wasn't going to get the aroma and flavor you can get at coffee shops, so why spend the money?

I've tried some of the most expensive coffees available with the exception of the ones made from beans collected from coati dung, or whatever, and still find that I don't get more flavor and aroma that I get from Folgers and other common brands. If you have a favourite, please let me know.


I'm actually partial to k-cup folgers black silk.

I think drip coffee makers make a fine first cup. And buy the time I'm ready for the second cup, it's all nasty. Making one cup in a drip maker never comes out right.

The k-cup costs about 50 cents at a megastore; about the same as a ten-cup scoop of regular folgers.

so there.



Haven't tried Foldger's Black Silk that I can remember. Pretty pricey on Amazon $21.50 for 27.8 oz. (27.8 oz? wtf?) I'll check for it at the supermarkets, and get it one way or another.
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Re: The Economy of Heating Water

Postby Daedalus » Fri Aug 30, 2013 7:44 pm

Marley Coffee Talkin' Blues K-cups...

That is all.

@Rob: Exactly... I'd rather drink a cup of great coffee than a pot of actinic swill.
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Re: The Economy of Heating Water

Postby Tom Palven » Fri Aug 30, 2013 8:03 pm

Daedalus wrote:Marley Coffee Talkin' Blues K-cups...

That is all.

@Rob: Exactly... I'd rather drink a cup of great coffee than a pot of actinic swill.


That's good to know, too. I'm going to have to try to give up actinic swill.
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Re: The Economy of Heating Water

Postby Tom Palven » Fri Aug 30, 2013 8:11 pm

BTW, I decided that maybe it's time to try some Ron Jeremy rum. Looked on Amazon, but apparently they don't carry liquor. However, I was directed to a book called Ron Jeremy: The Hardest Working Man in Showbiz, and bought it used for $.19 with one click. Will look for the rum at Total Wine and Spirits Unlimited, but will probably have to buy it on line.
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Re: The Economy of Heating Water

Postby Daedalus » Fri Aug 30, 2013 8:13 pm

Pyrat rum is VERY tasty stuff... a bit pricey, but worth it IMO.
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Re: The Economy of Heating Water

Postby Rob Lister » Fri Aug 30, 2013 8:17 pm

Tom-Palven wrote:BTW, I decided that maybe it's time to try some Ron Jeremy rum. Looked on Amazon, but apparently they don't carry liquor. However, I was directed to a book called Ron Jeremy: The Hardest Working Man in Showbiz, and bought it used for $.19 with one click. Will look for the rum at Total Wine and Spirits Unlimited, but will probably have to buy it on line.


Thank you for your meager patronage. ;)

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Re: The Economy of Heating Water

Postby Tom Palven » Fri Aug 30, 2013 8:18 pm

Daedalus wrote:Pyrat rum is VERY tasty stuff... a bit pricey, but worth it IMO.


Amazon has Marley Blue Mountain coffee for $26.69 for an 8 oz bag. Makes Folger's Black Silk look cheap.
And I guess I'll have to try Pyrat rum, too.
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Re: The Economy of Heating Water

Postby Tom Palven » Fri Aug 30, 2013 8:25 pm

Rob Lister wrote:
Tom-Palven wrote:BTW, I decided that maybe it's time to try some Ron Jeremy rum. Looked on Amazon, but apparently they don't carry liquor. However, I was directed to a book called Ron Jeremy: The Hardest Working Man in Showbiz, and bought it used for $.19 with one click. Will look for the rum at Total Wine and Spirits Unlimited, but will probably have to buy it on line.


Thank you for your meager patronage. ;)


Meager is me. Meager is all I got. :oops:
(I just placed an order for one bottle at Crown Wine and Spirits on line) :)
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Re: The Economy of Heating Water

Postby Daedalus » Fri Aug 30, 2013 9:40 pm

Tom-Palven wrote:
Daedalus wrote:Pyrat rum is VERY tasty stuff... a bit pricey, but worth it IMO.


Amazon has Marley Blue Mountain coffee for $26.69 for an 8 oz bag. Makes Folger's Black Silk look cheap.
And I guess I'll have to try Pyrat rum, too.


I've actually tried the Folgers... and you know it isn't half bad. A little acidic, but a good roast IMO.

That being said, Marley is Jamaican Blue Mountain coffee... there is nothing else like it on Earth. Of course, like all JBM coffee, it has very low acidity, so if you don't like that, you probably won't like this.

Pyrat rum though?... totally worth it. I never drink rum straight, but I do with Pyrat... it's naturally spicy, and just right.
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Re: The Economy of Heating Water

Postby Gord » Fri Aug 30, 2013 11:32 pm

"Knowledge grows through infinite timelessness" -- the random fictional Deepak Chopra quote site
"You are also taking my words out of context." -- Justin
"Nullius in verba" -- The Royal Society ["take nobody's word for it"]
#ANDAMOVIE

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Re: The Economy of Heating Water

Postby Major Malfunction » Fri Aug 30, 2013 11:55 pm

All this talk about caffeine, I'm starting to feel the need. I've been off it for months.

Vittoria!
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Re: The Economy of Heating Water

Postby scrmbldggs » Sat Aug 31, 2013 12:11 am

Gord wrote:Fire

Coffee

I wanna try sun tea coffee... :-P

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Re: The Economy of Heating Water

Postby Daedalus » Sat Aug 31, 2013 12:15 am

Major Malfunction wrote:All this talk about caffeine, I'm starting to feel the need. I've been off it for months.

Vittoria!


I spent some time working on a farm out in Wyoming years ago... we used to do a lot of trail riding and make coffee just this way... it works pretty well. Still doesn't hurt to carry some disposable filters in the back pocket though.
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Re: The Economy of Heating Water

Postby Major Malfunction » Sat Aug 31, 2013 12:17 am

Oh my sweet lord. Where have you been??
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Re: The Economy of Heating Water

Postby Daedalus » Sat Aug 31, 2013 12:19 am

Major Malfunction wrote:Oh my sweet lord. Where have you been??


I've been everywhere man, I've been everywhere... lala :D
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Re: The Economy of Heating Water

Postby Major Malfunction » Sat Aug 31, 2013 12:23 am

Three sips on my brew and I'm having minor hallucinations.
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Re: The Economy of Heating Water

Postby Daedalus » Sat Aug 31, 2013 12:25 am

Major Malfunction wrote:Three sips on my brew and I'm having minor hallucinations.


Too much wormwood? ;)
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Re: The Economy of Heating Water

Postby Major Malfunction » Sat Aug 31, 2013 12:38 am

Now my heart is beating really fast. I think I might die. But I must drink the last half. So delicious... Now. Headache. Pins in brain. Must finish....
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Re: The Economy of Heating Water

Postby SweetPea » Sat Aug 31, 2013 2:04 am

I use the single cup $10 Salton. The best coffee maker ever. No auto shut off - but it doesn't mind and the house hasn't burned down. I hate old coffee.

I did buy a nice "Italian style-ish" espresso/capp maker on final clearance sale at $25 from $225 which went in the garbage because it was a piece of {!#%@} looking good.
Actually I kept it for a while because it looked so good, but I never made a cup of coffee with it. It was complete crap. I don't exactly know why I didn't want to toss it out immediately. I had some resistance to throwing out a brand new appliance even though it wouldn't heat the water sufficiently.
There are articles about the rip off on coffee makers. this was a rip off at $25, never mind $225.


I usually get President's Choice coffee. often on sale at half the price of the higher shelf Nabob (which is now $16 a can) but the PC brand is every bit as good.

Water heaters? It's all about getting it to fit down the stairs without putting holes in the wall and ripping off railings and so on.
Quite often the venting is done wrongly too. That's the most common problem in installations, I think.
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Re: The Economy of Heating Water

Postby scrmbldggs » Sat Aug 31, 2013 2:20 am

Water heaters... I don't have one now, but if it was up to me, Tankless or Hot Water On Demand would be it. And the best coffee maker I ever had - taste wise and everything else - was a $ 20 piece from Walmart. Until the valve gave out. Sadly, they don't sell them anymore, or I'd buy the same one in a snap. It made even crappy coffee taste good.

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Re: The Economy of Heating Water

Postby Tom Palven » Thu Sep 05, 2013 11:16 pm

The Ron Jeremy Rum arrived today. Very nice. Sweet and smooth. Went very well with the Rodney Strong Knotty Vines Zinfandel and pizza from scratch that we had for dinner. Cheers.
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Re: The Economy of Heating Water

Postby Tom Palven » Sat Sep 07, 2013 12:51 pm

My wife picked up a can of Folger's Black Silk coffee yesterday at Publix, a very good supermarket chain in the South. Cost about four and a half bucks for a 10.3 oz can(Yes, a one pound can of coffee has crept down to 10.3 oz), about what other premium brands are selling for at this time.

Am having it now. It's rich, flavorful, and not too bitter. I think it's as least as good as any other brand I've tried, from Goya and Italian expressos, Savarin, New England, etc, but it still doesn't have the aroma I'd hoped for.

I'll try the Jamaican Blue Mountain some time, but I'm reaching the conclusion that without grinding fresh beans and getting either a more troublesome or much more expensive coffee-maker, or both, that I won't get the results I'd like. But, since I'm unwilling to devote the time and expense to get those results I'll shut up and stop whining.
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Re: The Economy of Heating Water

Postby fromthehills » Sat Sep 07, 2013 2:13 pm

scrmbldggs wrote:Water heaters... I don't have one now, but if it was up to me, Tankless or Hot Water On Demand would be it.



On-demand is the way to go. Heating water in a tank that just sits there for 2/3 of the time is pointless. We have solar hot water with a back up on-demand. The on-demand has never come on.

Wait, What? You don't have a water heater?

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Re: The Economy of Heating Water

Postby Daedalus » Sat Sep 07, 2013 2:59 pm

Tom-Palven wrote:My wife picked up a can of Folger's Black Silk coffee yesterday at Publix, a very good supermarket chain in the South. Cost about four and a half bucks for a 10.3 oz can(Yes, a one pound can of coffee has crept down to 10.3 oz), about what other premium brands are selling for at this time.

Am having it now. It's rich, flavorful, and not too bitter. I think it's as least as good as any other brand I've tried, from Goya and Italian expressos, Savarin, New England, etc, but it still doesn't have the aroma I'd hoped for.

I'll try the Jamaican Blue Mountain some time, but I'm reaching the conclusion that without grinding fresh beans and getting either a more troublesome or much more expensive coffee-maker, or both, that I won't get the results I'd like. But, since I'm unwilling to devote the time and expense to get those results I'll shut up and stop whining.


It's true that whole bean is often the way to go, or something like a Keurig. Still, you seem to have a real appreciation for coffee, so maybe the Blue Mountain stuff will hit the spot.

If not, you could make sad puppy eyes at friends until they buy you a Keurig. ;)
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Re: The Economy of Heating Water

Postby Major Malfunction » Sat Sep 07, 2013 7:17 pm

fromthehills wrote:Wait, What? You don't have a water heater?

I knew a guy like that in uni. He lived in a tin shack in the bush, no power, no plumbing. Just a rain tank and a small wood stove. He heated water for bathing on the stove and tipped a bucket on his head outside, even in winter. He didn't even have a drop pit toilet. He shat in a metal bucket and burnt it once a week. I never asked if he used different buckets.

Needless to say, he was a little... odd.
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Re: The Economy of Heating Water

Postby Lance Kennedy » Sat Sep 07, 2013 11:28 pm

I have three water heaters. First is a standard heater for showers etc to two bathrooms.

The second was a mistake. My wife asked the plumber what to put in for hot water for the kitchen, since our house is long and thin, and the kitchen is too far from the main water heater. I told the plumber to get a califont. The bloody plumber got, and installed a mini hot water cylinder, which drips incessantly and runs out of hot water all the time. Grrrr!

The third heater is a califont with water filters to provide pure drinking water. It delivers ambient temperature filtered water from one tap and 92C filtered water from the other. As a califont, it never runs out of hot, and the water is very, very pure. I make coffee directly from the hot tap. The only bad thing is that it cost $US 1200. Worth it, though!

Incidentally, a recent article in our local consumer magazine was about solar water heating. It seems that, in terms of money, solar water is not good. The electricity savings are too low to pay for the extra costs involved in buying and installing solar water heaters. Of course, this may not be true everywhere.

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Re: The Economy of Heating Water

Postby scrmbldggs » Sun Sep 08, 2013 12:01 am

fromthehills wrote:
scrmbldggs wrote:Water heaters... I don't have one now, but if it was up to me, Tankless or Hot Water On Demand would be it.



On-demand is the way to go. Heating water in a tank that just sits there for 2/3 of the time is pointless. We have solar hot water with a back up on-demand. The on-demand has never come on.

Wait, What? You don't have a water heater?

:lol:

Nope. I'm single... :|

(JK, I have the regular flooding device. Newer model, tho, so I won't need galoshes for a few years...)

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Re: The Economy of Heating Water

Postby Gord » Sun Sep 08, 2013 10:41 pm

Major Malfunction wrote:
fromthehills wrote:Wait, What? You don't have a water heater?

I knew a guy like that in uni. He lived in a tin shack in the bush, no power, no plumbing. Just a rain tank and a small wood stove. He heated water for bathing on the stove and tipped a bucket on his head outside, even in winter. He didn't even have a drop pit toilet. He shat in a metal bucket and burnt it once a week. I never asked if he used different buckets.

Needless to say, he was a little... odd.

You knew the unabomber? Kewl.
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Daedalus
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Re: The Economy of Heating Water

Postby Daedalus » Sun Sep 08, 2013 10:43 pm

Gord wrote:
Major Malfunction wrote:
fromthehills wrote:Wait, What? You don't have a water heater?

I knew a guy like that in uni. He lived in a tin shack in the bush, no power, no plumbing. Just a rain tank and a small wood stove. He heated water for bathing on the stove and tipped a bucket on his head outside, even in winter. He didn't even have a drop pit toilet. He shat in a metal bucket and burnt it once a week. I never asked if he used different buckets.

Needless to say, he was a little... odd.

You knew the unabomber? Kewl.


:lol:

I was going to ask how old Ted was doing.
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