Proof of No Extraterrestrial Life

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Proof of No Extraterrestrial Life

Postby landrew » Tue Aug 24, 2010 11:48 am

OK, if there is any extraterrestrial intelligent life out there, (please note: intelligent) respond to this posting any way you wish. Anything will do, as long as it is convincing to the skeptics.

Thanks
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Re: Proof of No Extraterrestrial Life

Postby Pyrrho » Tue Aug 24, 2010 3:35 pm

X = unknown.
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Re: Proof of No Extraterrestrial Life

Postby 4sure » Tue Aug 24, 2010 4:04 pm

To start with, Drakes equation is a load of crap!

The Drake equation states that:
N=R (fp)(ne)(fl)(fi)(fc)(L)

where:

N = the number of civilizations in our galaxy with which communication might be possible;
and

R* = the average rate of star formation per year in our galaxy
fp = the fraction of those stars that have planets
ne = the average number of planets that can potentially support life per star that has planets
fℓ = the fraction of the above that actually go on to develop life at some point
fi = the fraction of the above that actually go on to develop intelligent life
fc = the fraction of civilizations that develop a technology that releases detectable signs of their existence into space
L = the length of time such civilizations release detectable signals into space.[

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Re: Proof of No Extraterrestrial Life

Postby fromthehills » Tue Aug 24, 2010 4:25 pm

W= What
T= the
F= For clarity to a guy that uses a calculator to add the number of his fingers, can you elaborate?

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Re: Proof of No Extraterrestrial Life

Postby Squishua » Tue Aug 24, 2010 5:03 pm

"The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary."
- H. L. Mencken

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Re: Proof of No Extraterrestrial Life

Postby fromthehills » Tue Aug 24, 2010 5:15 pm

How is it full of crap?

Thanks for the link.

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Re: Proof of No Extraterrestrial Life

Postby OlegTheBatty » Tue Aug 24, 2010 5:20 pm

This Link provides a lot more detail and discussion.
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Re: Proof of No Extraterrestrial Life

Postby Squishua » Tue Aug 24, 2010 5:23 pm

I'm not sure why 4sure thinks it is a load of crap. Perhaps it is because most of the terms have a large degree of uncertainty?
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Re: Proof of No Extraterrestrial Life

Postby Pyrrho » Tue Aug 24, 2010 6:02 pm

The Drake Equation is an interesting speculation, but it isn't evidence.
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Re: Proof of No Extraterrestrial Life

Postby fromthehills » Wed Aug 25, 2010 12:00 am

I have to admit that my head is swimming. I wouldn't be able to come up with a better speculative model. I do find it to be a lot like statistics, in that you couldn't be able to quantify the enormous amount of variables.

Before I insert foot, am I even close?

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Re: Proof of No Extraterrestrial Life

Postby Pyrrho » Wed Aug 25, 2010 12:48 am

If we treat the Drake Equation as a hypothesis, it can only be falsified if no evidence for extraterrestrial civilizations is ever found. I'm sure you can see the problem.
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Re: Proof of No Extraterrestrial Life

Postby fromthehills » Wed Aug 25, 2010 1:44 am

Pyrrho wrote:If we treat the Drake Equation as a hypothesis, it can only be falsified if no evidence for extraterrestrial civilizations is ever found. I'm sure you can see the problem.


Ah, like Ruben's position in our wager.

viewtopic.php?f=7&t=13544#p209332

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Re: Proof of No Extraterrestrial Life

Postby Gord » Wed Aug 25, 2010 8:26 am

landrew wrote:OK, if there is any extraterrestrial intelligent life out there, (please note: intelligent) respond to this posting any way you wish. Anything will do, as long as it is convincing to the skeptics.

Thanks
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Re: Proof of No Extraterrestrial Life

Postby landrew » Wed Aug 25, 2010 12:43 pm

Pyrrho wrote:If we treat the Drake Equation as a hypothesis, it can only be falsified if no evidence for extraterrestrial civilizations is ever found. I'm sure you can see the problem.

Thanks for making my point. Sorry for the ruse.
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Re: Proof of No Extraterrestrial Life

Postby 4sure » Wed Aug 25, 2010 1:55 pm

fromthehills wrote:How is it full of crap?

Thanks for the link.


I just find myself more on the side of the critics when it comes to the drake equation. This is not to say I dont believe in Extraterrestrial Life.

Criticism of the Drake equation follows mostly from the observation that several terms in the equation are largely or entirely based on conjecture. Thus the equation cannot be used to draw firm conclusions of any kind. As T.J. Nelson states:[20]

The Drake equation consists of a large number of probabilities multiplied together. Since each factor is guaranteed to be somewhere between 0 and 1, the result is also guaranteed to be a reasonable-looking number between 0 and 1. Unfortunately, all the probabilities are completely unknown, making the result worse than useless.

Likewise, in a 2003 lecture at Caltech, Michael Crichton, a science fiction author, stated:[21]

The problem, of course, is that none of the terms can be known, and most cannot even be estimated. The only way to work the equation is to fill in with guesses. [...] As a result, the Drake equation can have any value from "billions and billions" to zero. An expression that can mean anything means nothing. Speaking precisely, the Drake equation is literally meaningless...

Another objection is that the very form of the Drake equation assumes that civilizations arise and then die out within their original solar systems. If interstellar colonization is possible, then this assumption is invalid, and the equations of population dynamics would apply instead.[22]

One reply to such criticisms[23] is that even though the Drake equation currently involves speculation about unmeasured parameters, it was not meant to be science, but intended as a way to stimulate dialog on these topics. Then the focus becomes how to proceed experimentally. Indeed, Drake originally formulated the equation merely as an agenda for discussion at the Green Bank conference.[24]

Another reply to such criticisms is that the Drake Equation is a Fermi Problem which involves the multiplication of several estimated factors, and such calculations (e.g. the number of piano tuners in Chicago) will _probably_ be more accurate than might be first supposed (assuming that there is no consistent bias in the estimated factors). This is because if there is no consistent bias, then there will probably (with a binomial distribution) be some factors that are estimated too high and other factors that are estimated too low, and such errors will partially cancel each other out.

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Re: Proof of No Extraterrestrial Life

Postby Nabarun Ghoshal » Thu Aug 26, 2010 1:16 am

Pyrrho wrote:If we treat the Drake Equation as a hypothesis, it can only be falsified if no evidence for extraterrestrial civilizations is ever found. I'm sure you can see the problem.


The probability of God's existence 'G' can be given by Nabarun's equation:

G= F^N/D^N`
where
F= Amount of faith
N= No. of faithful persons in the world at any given time
D= Amount of disbelief
N`= No. of non-believers in the world at any given time.

It can be falsified only if no evidence of God's existence is ever found. :mrgreen:
Last edited by Nabarun Ghoshal on Thu Aug 26, 2010 2:52 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Proof of No Extraterrestrial Life

Postby Pyrrho » Thu Aug 26, 2010 1:21 am

landrew wrote:
Pyrrho wrote:If we treat the Drake Equation as a hypothesis, it can only be falsified if no evidence for extraterrestrial civilizations is ever found. I'm sure you can see the problem.

Thanks for making my point. Sorry for the ruse.

x = unknown

We cannot provide proof that no extraterrestrial intelligent life exists.
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Re: Proof of No Extraterrestrial Life

Postby Squishua » Thu Aug 26, 2010 1:55 am

I would say the likelihood we will ever encounter extraterrestrial life is near zero.
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Re: Proof of No Extraterrestrial Life

Postby Nabarun Ghoshal » Thu Aug 26, 2010 2:50 am

Squishua wrote:I would say the likelihood we will ever encounter extraterrestrial life is near zero.


Correct.
Although I am sure there must be self replicating molecules in other parts of this universe having some 100 billion galaxies but it is almost impossible to have a connection with them if we are to believe in Einstein's speed limit.

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Re: Proof of No Extraterrestrial Life

Postby Squishua » Thu Aug 26, 2010 3:53 am

It's not Einstein's speed limit, although he is certainly the one who first figured it out and published it.

Over a hundred years later and nothing can circumvent it, even in principle. The EPR paradox allows nothing of consequence.
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Re: Proof of No Extraterrestrial Life

Postby 4sure » Thu Aug 26, 2010 8:01 am

No ill will intended but if I may,I would like to speak my peace.......just opened myself up to ridicule but it will be all worth it to me because I will learn so much more from everybody's comments unless I get banned and never get to read them:roll:

Remember I'm new here and have been reading a lot of posts. The majority of those that consistently post comments I would describe them as intellectual idiots.

People here like to play on the problem of language and most have developed their own style of rhetoric. People here like having the scapegoat of knowing that their idea on life, or whatever it may be, is backed by the luxury of knowing that no one else can say different, unless able to prove it. ....What ever happened to the solid conclusion of: If a + b = c and if a + d = c. then b must equal d.

When are you people going to stand up, face the music and become accountable?

I kind of like one of Stephen Hawkins quotes......It sorta goes like this " We are yet to find intelligent life in the universe"

But I'm 4sure on one thing.......Selfish Motives rule the universe that I know---Lets see you argue my rhetoric..

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Re: Proof of No Extraterrestrial Life

Postby Gord » Thu Aug 26, 2010 11:15 am

4sure wrote:...I would like to speak my peace....

I'm sure you meant "piece," not "peace." :P
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Re: Proof of No Extraterrestrial Life

Postby landrew » Thu Aug 26, 2010 11:38 am

I have a slightly different definition for "intellectual idiot."

Someone who constantly attacks the ideas of others without ever coming up with any of their own.
The job of a skeptic is to investigate the unexplained; not to explain the uninvestigated.

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Re: Proof of No Extraterrestrial Life

Postby Pyrrho » Thu Aug 26, 2010 1:03 pm

4sure wrote:No ill will intended but if I may,I would like to speak my peace.......just opened myself up to ridicule but it will be all worth it to me because I will learn so much more from everybody's comments unless I get banned and never get to read them:roll:

Remember I'm new here and have been reading a lot of posts. The majority of those that consistently post comments I would describe them as intellectual idiots.

People here like to play on the problem of language and most have developed their own style of rhetoric. People here like having the scapegoat of knowing that their idea on life, or whatever it may be, is backed by the luxury of knowing that no one else can say different, unless able to prove it. ....What ever happened to the solid conclusion of: If a + b = c and if a + d = c. then b must equal d.

When are you people going to stand up, face the music and become accountable?

I kind of like one of Stephen Hawkins quotes......It sorta goes like this " We are yet to find intelligent life in the universe"

But I'm 4sure on one thing.......Selfish Motives rule the universe that I know---Lets see you argue my rhetoric..

Lighten up.
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Re: Proof of No Extraterrestrial Life

Postby fromthehills » Thu Aug 26, 2010 1:33 pm

I know he isn't talking about me, because I'm not an intellectual.

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Re: Proof of No Extraterrestrial Life

Postby landrew » Thu Aug 26, 2010 1:40 pm

fromthehills wrote:I know he isn't talking about me, because I'm not an intellectual.

I don't know exactly what "an intellectual" is either, but most of what we do here (most times) is intellectual.
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Re: Proof of No Extraterrestrial Life

Postby Pyrrho » Thu Aug 26, 2010 3:18 pm

Insulting idiots only makes the morons demand equal treatment.
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Re: Proof of No Extraterrestrial Life

Postby 4sure » Thu Aug 26, 2010 4:59 pm

4sure wrote:No ill will intended but if I may,I would like to speak my peace.......just opened myself up to ridicule but it will be all worth it to me because I will learn so much more from everybody's comments unless I get banned and never get to read them:roll:

Remember I'm new here and have been reading a lot of posts. The majority of those that consistently post comments I would describe them as intellectual idiots.

People here like to play on the problem of language and most have developed their own style of rhetoric. People here like having the scapegoat of knowing that their idea on life, or whatever it may be, is backed by the luxury of knowing that no one else can say different, unless able to prove it. ....What ever happened to the solid conclusion of: If a + b = c and if a + d = c. then b must equal d.

When are you people going to stand up, face the music and become accountable?

I kind of like one of Stephen Hawkins quotes......It sorta goes like this " We are yet to find intelligent life in the universe"

But I'm 4sure on one thing.......Selfish Motives rule the universe that I know---Lets see you argue my rhetoric..


This is what happens when I stay up half the night and have a few too many :oops:

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Re: Proof of No Extraterrestrial Life

Postby Pyrrho » Fri Aug 27, 2010 1:20 am

As if none of us have ever done that.
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Re: Proof of No Extraterrestrial Life

Postby fromthehills » Fri Aug 27, 2010 2:41 am

God bless you, Landrew.

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Re: Proof of No Extraterrestrial Life

Postby numan » Wed Sep 08, 2010 7:37 pm

'
landrew wrote:OK, if there is any extraterrestrial intelligent life out there, (please note: intelligent) respond to this posting any way you wish. Anything will do, as long as it is convincing to the skeptics.

Thanks
A. Earthling

We are here, on the internet, studying you primitive life-forms and influencing you.

There is nothing we would be willing to communicate that would convince the characters on this site!

We have already suggested some evidence on another thread

viewtopic.php?f=21&t=12906

which none of you could understand.

Go peddle your papers. We will just continue to modify you without your understanding or ability to resist.

.
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Re: Proof of No Extraterrestrial Life

Postby landrew » Wed Sep 08, 2010 7:54 pm

numan wrote:'
landrew wrote:OK, if there is any extraterrestrial intelligent life out there, (please note: intelligent) respond to this posting any way you wish. Anything will do, as long as it is convincing to the skeptics.

Thanks
A. Earthling

We are here, on the internet, studying you primitive life-forms and influencing you.

There is nothing we would be willing to communicate that would convince the characters on this site!

We have already suggested some evidence on another thread

viewtopic.php?f=21&t=12906

which none of you could understand.

Go peddle your papers. We will just continue to modify you without your understanding or ability to resist.

.

I should have stipulated "intelligent life."
The job of a skeptic is to investigate the unexplained; not to explain the uninvestigated.

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Re: Proof of No Extraterrestrial Life

Postby numan » Thu Sep 09, 2010 6:22 am

'
landrew wrote:I should have stipulated "intelligent life."

We are still hoping that it may one day appear on this planet.

.
Neither man nor woman can be worth anything until they have discovered that they are fools. This is the first step toward becoming either estimable or agreeable---and until it is taken, there is no hope.

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Re: Proof of No Extraterrestrial Life

Postby Pyrrho » Fri Sep 10, 2010 1:53 pm

numan wrote:'
landrew wrote:I should have stipulated "intelligent life."

We are still hoping that it may one day appear on this planet.

.

Don't hold your breath.
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Re: Proof of No Extraterrestrial Life

Postby Major Malfunction » Fri Sep 24, 2010 1:02 pm

Pyrrho wrote:
numan wrote:'
landrew wrote:I should have stipulated "intelligent life."

We are still hoping that it may one day appear on this planet.

.

Don't hold your breath.

Actually, that might help.
This being was produced using the same process as other beings, and therefore, may contain traces of nuts.

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Re: Proof of No Extraterrestrial Life

Postby mitti » Wed Sep 14, 2011 9:45 pm

all it is.....is a equation of probability.

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Re: Proof of No Extraterrestrial Life

Postby PennyDotson » Fri Apr 03, 2015 1:53 am

Yes but we will never meet them.

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Re: Proof of No Extraterrestrial Life

Postby Poodle » Thu Apr 23, 2015 12:47 pm

PennyDotson wrote:Yes but we will never meet them.


You may. According to one poster on here (who shall be nameless - no, don't thank me, gorgeous) they're inhabiting the hollow interiors of the Moon and Phobos.

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Re: Proof of No Extraterrestrial Life

Postby scrmbldggs » Thu Apr 23, 2015 2:17 pm

Poodle wrote:
PennyDotson wrote:Yes but we will never meet them.


You may. According to one poster on here (who shall be nameless - no, don't thank me, gorgeous) they're inhabiting the hollow interiors of the Moon and Phobos.

They may be infesting the Moon, but Phobos is where they keep their pets.

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Re: Proof of No Extraterrestrial Life

Postby gorgeous » Thu Apr 23, 2015 2:18 pm

....and don't forget the hollow Earth.....filled with aliens....see...poodle is paying attention..... :mrgreen:
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