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Gigantopithecus-ramifications for bigfoot?

Posted: Wed Oct 21, 2009 1:07 am
by makaya325
Hey all, I am new to this board and would like to discuss the largest ape of all time, Gigantopithecus Black!

Does anyone here think it could be related to bigfoot?

Re: Gigantopithecus-ramifications for bigfoot?

Posted: Wed Oct 21, 2009 1:09 am
by idoubtit
Short answer from this corner: No. There is no evidence that this species or anything like it was native to N. America. So, if Bigfoot exists, it not a G. blacki, but possibly a relative.

(I've had some wine tonight and just finished MonsterQuest on flying humanoids, so I'm in a strange mood... :-*

Re: Gigantopithecus-ramifications for bigfoot?

Posted: Wed Oct 21, 2009 1:10 am
by DoctorAtlantis
idoubtit wrote:Short answer from this corner: No. There is no evidence that this species or anything like it was native to N. America. So, if Bigfoot exists, it not a G. blacki, but possibly a relative.

(I've had some wine tonight and just finished MonsterQuest on flying humanoids, so I'm in a strange mood... :-*)


I've got to quit doing so much free-lance work and spend more time watching TV. ;)

Re: Gigantopithecus-ramifications for bigfoot?

Posted: Wed Oct 21, 2009 1:11 am
by idoubtit
I'm not sure I would recommend more TV watching, although Joe Nickell was on this one. Flying humanoid reports sound really silly to me and I can't take them serious (remember that video from 2007 of the thing floating through a quarry? They showed that) but to bring this sort of back on topic - they showed the Mexican baby primate carcass and did an examination. They recovered no DNA from bones or skin. They had only human medical experts to examine it instead of primatologists. It sure looks like a poor baby monkey or a hoax. Their analysis (or should I say what they showed of it) was very poorly explained.

Re: Gigantopithecus-ramifications for bigfoot?

Posted: Wed Oct 21, 2009 1:11 am
by makaya325
Flying humanoids?!!! That is more incredible than bigfoot existing.

Re: Gigantopithecus-ramifications for bigfoot?

Posted: Wed Oct 21, 2009 1:12 am
by idoubtit
makaya325 wrote:Flying humanoids?!!! That is more incredible than bigfoot existing.

Well, don't get your balloons in a bunch. That's all I can say.

Re: Gigantopithecus-ramifications for bigfoot?

Posted: Wed Oct 21, 2009 1:13 am
by makaya325
That episode put the nail in the coffin in terms of MQ's credibility

Re: Gigantopithecus-ramifications for bigfoot?

Posted: Wed Oct 21, 2009 1:13 am
by idoubtit
makaya325 wrote:That episode put the nail in the coffin in terms of MQ's credibility

There have been a few like that but that one in particular was odd. The flying humanoid had nothing to do with cryptozoology and the small skeletal critter had nothing to do with the topic either. I thought it was poor in many ways.

Re: Gigantopithecus-ramifications for bigfoot?

Posted: Wed Oct 21, 2009 1:20 am
by DoctorAtlantis
Well the "Stalin's Ape Men" episode wasn't particuarly "cryptozoological" either.

I'm not sure what they showed Joe Nickell to make him think that those small bundles of balloons were the culprit. The videos look much more like netted-balloons to me.

For some reason they seem netted to me - like the kind you'd have for a balloon-release. But I see pix of vendors in Mexico with clusres that could probably also fit the bill.

And there are the plastic-bag and paper balloons as well...
16182205_9f66aabfae_o.jpg
balloons_in_mexico.jpg
balloon-spikes-738945.jpg

Re: Gigantopithecus-ramifications for bigfoot?

Posted: Wed Oct 21, 2009 1:20 am
by idoubtit
And from a long distance, would they even need to have been black?

The whole episode was pointless and silly. But, even then, I think I still even learned something - how much people want to believe in the pointless and silly, eschewing all reason.

Re: Gigantopithecus-ramifications for bigfoot?

Posted: Wed Oct 21, 2009 1:21 am
by Karl
idoubtit wrote:But, even then, I think I still even learned something - how much people want to believe in the pointless and silly, eschewing all reason.

Precisely.

Re: Gigantopithecus-ramifications for bigfoot?

Posted: Wed Oct 21, 2009 1:22 am
by idoubtit
Another blog post about the MQ flying humanoid episode
http://skepchick.org/blog/?p=8660

Re: Gigantopithecus-ramifications for bigfoot?

Posted: Wed Oct 21, 2009 1:22 am
by Scopi
So where did the idea that Gigantopithecus has anything to do with Bigfoot even come from? Last I heard, Gigantopithecus is only known from jawbone and tooth fossils in SE Asia, so we don't really know what it looked like and it certainly has no connection to North America. It was almost certainly a great ape which means it's not directly related to humans, and Bigfoot is aways described as being nearly human.

I guess the whole Bigfoot myth is based on the popular idea that our ancestors must have been brutish and large, though everything science knows about our direct ancestors suggests we are the largest of all of them.

Re: Gigantopithecus-ramifications for bigfoot?

Posted: Wed Oct 21, 2009 1:23 am
by Karl
The study of Bigfoot is a mixture of speculation and imagination. Science finds its way in there every once in a while, but has almost nothing to do with Bigfoot.

Re: Gigantopithecus-ramifications for bigfoot?

Posted: Wed Oct 21, 2009 1:23 am
by busterggi
Because its there.

Seriously, its the only known species of ape larger than modern gorillas & is the only evidence that any larger primates ever lived - its a straw to grasp.

Re: Gigantopithecus-ramifications for bigfoot?

Posted: Wed Oct 21, 2009 1:24 am
by idoubtit
Scopi wrote:So where did the idea that Gigantopithecus has anything to do with Bigfoot even come from? Last I heard, Gigantopithecus is only known from jawbone and tooth fossils in SE Asia, so we don't really know what it looked like and it certainly has no connection to North America. It was almost certainly a great ape which means it's not directly related to humans, and Bigfoot is aways described as being nearly human.

That's an excellent question. Who made the first link between the two?

Re: Gigantopithecus-ramifications for bigfoot?

Posted: Wed Oct 21, 2009 1:25 am
by Karl
I'm not absolutely sure, but I believe it was the somewhat eccentric Grover Krantz. Jeff Meldrum agreed with the idea, and has carried it on. Many others, it seems, have simply jumped on Dr. Meldrum's band wagon.

Re: Gigantopithecus-ramifications for bigfoot?

Posted: Wed Oct 21, 2009 1:25 am
by busterggi
Ummm, I'll check & see if Heuvelmanns or Sanderson made the link earlier & let you know asap.

Re: Gigantopithecus-ramifications for bigfoot?

Posted: Wed Oct 21, 2009 1:26 am
by DoctorAtlantis
David Daegling mentions Krantz as a strong supporter, but I seem to remember it being Huevelmans.

Confirmed: On page 152 of Mike McLeod's Anatomy of a Beast he tells us that Heuvelmans started that idea back in 1952.
http://www.google.com/books?id=_6FmjJYd ... us&f=false

Re: Gigantopithecus-ramifications for bigfoot?

Posted: Wed Oct 21, 2009 1:26 am
by busterggi
Yep, In Sanderson's book from 1961 (Abominable Snowmen - Legend Come to Life) he credits Heuvelmanns in his '52 articles with linking Giganto with yetis.

Re: Gigantopithecus-ramifications for bigfoot?

Posted: Wed Oct 21, 2009 1:27 am
by Scopi
I suppose that on the great scale of probability, Giganto (or a decsendant thereof) as Yeti is a bit more plausible. At least they're both on the same super-continent.

I love going on Crypto forums and watching people argue over which bigfoot sighting is which species, even though no one can prove any of them exist.

Re: Gigantopithecus-ramifications for bigfoot?

Posted: Wed Oct 21, 2009 1:27 am
by idoubtit
Yep. That's always speculation at its finest. I also chuckle at the way they use similar description of sightings to be "proof" of their credibility and then differences in descriptions as "proof" that there are multiple species. You can't lose!

Re: Gigantopithecus-ramifications for bigfoot?

Posted: Wed Oct 28, 2009 10:51 pm
by Matthew Ellard
makaya325 wrote:Hey all, I am new to this board and would like to discuss the largest ape of all time, Gigantopithecus Black!

Does anyone here think it could be related to bigfoot?


(Hello. I'm not sure if I am welcoming you to our forum, or if you are welcoming me to your forum. I guess it doesn't matter)

We have fossil teeth from Gigantopithecus Black. We have some evidence that the last of the species dies 300,000 year ago. Can we not determine the species's diet from its fossil teeth and then determine if this diet can be currently satisfied in the areas that Bigfoot is spotted? It seems to me that 300,000 year is to short for teeth and jaw structure to evolve to change from one diet to another.

Re: Gigantopithecus-ramifications for bigfoot?

Posted: Thu Oct 29, 2009 4:05 am
by Gord
I think the main problem with the theory that Gigantopithecus evolved into Bigfoot is the fact that we can find remains of Gigantopithecus, but not remains of Bigfoot. The evidence for Gigantopithecus is pretty certain; but there's no evidence for Gigantopithecus having evolved into anything except, um...dust. That's...that's not really "evolution," though.... *cough*

Re: Gigantopithecus-ramifications for bigfoot?

Posted: Fri Oct 30, 2009 12:48 am
by idoubtit
Matthew Ellard wrote:
makaya325 wrote:Hey all, I am new to this board and would like to discuss the largest ape of all time, Gigantopithecus Black!

Does anyone here think it could be related to bigfoot?


(Hello. I'm not sure if I am welcoming you to our forum, or if you are welcoming me to your forum. I guess it doesn't matter)

We have fossil teeth from Gigantopithecus Black. We have some evidence that the last of the species dies 300,000 year ago. Can we not determine the species's diet from its fossil teeth and then determine if this diet can be currently satisfied in the areas that Bigfoot is spotted? It seems to me that 300,000 year is to short for teeth and jaw structure to evolve to change from one diet to another.


Yeah. The dates didn't transfer over. That's an old post when MonsterTalk forums just got going. So, we pretty much put this one to bed early. Nice of you to chime in though. It's "blacki", always with a Latin ending...

Re: Gigantopithecus-ramifications for bigfoot?

Posted: Sat Oct 31, 2009 7:03 am
by Matthew Ellard
idoubtit wrote: Nice of you to chime in though. It's "blacki", always with a Latin ending...


Thank you. I will now use "Blacki"

Re: Gigantopithecus-ramifications for bigfoot?

Posted: Sun Nov 01, 2009 3:19 am
by Gord
Matthew Ellard wrote:
idoubtit wrote: Nice of you to chime in though. It's "blacki", always with a Latin ending...


Thank you. I will now use "Blacki"

:?

When you pronouce it, do you make it sound like "black-eye" or "blackie?"

Re: Gigantopithecus-ramifications for bigfoot?

Posted: Sun Nov 01, 2009 4:12 pm
by idoubtit
Black-eye.

If it was Blackii - it would be black-e-eye. (Eye think)

Re: Gigantopithecus-ramifications for bigfoot?

Posted: Tue Aug 24, 2010 11:53 am
by landrew
idoubtit wrote:Black-eye.

If it was Blackii - it would be black-e-eye. (Eye think)

I believe someone named Black was involved in the discovery.

Re: Gigantopithecus-ramifications for bigfoot?

Posted: Mon Aug 30, 2010 9:35 pm
by spookyparadigm
Regarding the teeth: While I could be wrong, I believe that phytoliths (small bits of fossilized plant material) imbedded on the surface of some G. blackii teeth were from bamboo. This makes sense given where the teeth are found. In essence, imagine a large orangutan with the dietary and perhaps behavior characteristics of a panda. Not exactly an elusive hi-speed bipdeal man-ape in the forests of North America. Though honestly the momentum in the community seems to be on the side of the paranormal bigfoot people.

Re: Gigantopithecus-ramifications for bigfoot?

Posted: Fri Aug 04, 2017 8:24 am
by KevinLevites
As I've said in another thread, I believe that bigfoot may be an artifact of certian Native American traditions.

The famous wilderness author Tom Brown Jr. frankly admits that he was the Jersey Devil on several occasions.

Apparently, he was trained by a Native American scout in the ways of psychological warfare, and using scarey costumes was a way of intimidating an enemy tribe.

He became the Jersey Devil to scare illegal dumpers out of the Pine Barrens...as well as setting booby traps.

Re: Gigantopithecus-ramifications for bigfoot?

Posted: Fri Aug 04, 2017 9:27 pm
by Gord
How did I get back here in 2009? I was just walking through 2017! Damn, must've taken a wrong turn at Albuquerque.

Re: Gigantopithecus-ramifications for bigfoot?

Posted: Mon Aug 07, 2017 7:30 pm
by OlegTheBatty
A sasquatch posted on a nonmonster forum that it saw me walking in the forest. None of the other posters believed it, and now all my selfies are blurry.