Plesiosaurs - the secret of Loch Ness? (Nope)

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DoctorAtlantis
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Plesiosaurs - the secret of Loch Ness? (Nope)

Postby DoctorAtlantis » Wed Oct 21, 2009 12:35 am

I just posted two great articles to MonsterScience. One is about the plesiosaur hypothesis for Lake and Sea Monsters. It is by Dr. Adam Stuart Smith.
http://monsterscience.org/wordpress/?p=140

The other is about the specific case of the Zuiyo-Maru and the carcass the vessel hauled aboard in 1977. This article is by Glen Kuban who is scheduled to be a guest on an upcoming episode of MonsterTalk.
http://monsterscience.org/wordpress/?p=121

I hope you enjoy these articles and if you have comments this is a good place for them.

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Re: Plesiosaurs - the secret of Loch Ness? (Nope)

Postby Bart Stewart » Sat Nov 14, 2009 7:36 pm

I thought it was nice to finally see someone state that plesiosaurs did not hold their heads and necks out of the water in the swan-like way attributed to modern lake monsters. Beyond this, the simple reality is that real animals are only just so elusive. The snow leopard is extremely elusive, and lives in a very remote area, but we have carcasses and video and all kinds of information on it. An animal that is always being spotted only from a great distance, and known only by blurry photos and dubious eyewitness stories, for decades on end, is not a real animal. That situation smacks of folklore and fakery.

New animal species are being discovered all the time, but they're usually small and not "monsterous" enough to excite cryptozoologists or the public. Bipedal apes and lake monsters, the superstars of the cryptozoological quest, are virtually certain to be mythical. Hard evidence would have been found by now. The entire length of Loch Ness was the subject of a sustained organized surface observation during daylight hours for a period of ten years! The lake bottom was dredged for longer than that. Little tid bits like that are forgotten, while dubious eyewitness sightings are rehashed perpetually. That's a lame way of dealing with any subject of inquiry.

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Re: Plesiosaurs - the secret of Loch Ness? (Nope)

Postby idoubtit » Sat Nov 14, 2009 9:34 pm

All that you said is valid, which is why many fans of cryptids have gone down the supernatural path. Natural means of finding such animals fail. To support their belief, they must go beyond nature.

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Re: Plesiosaurs - the secret of Loch Ness? (Nope)

Postby Bart Stewart » Sat Nov 14, 2009 9:46 pm

idoubtit wrote:All that you said is valid, which is why many fans of cryptids have gone down the supernatural path. Natural means of finding such animals fail. To support their belief, they must go beyond nature.


Simply dispensing with the belief altogether is apparently not an option, then.

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Re: Plesiosaurs - the secret of Loch Ness? (Nope)

Postby busterggi » Sat Nov 14, 2009 11:06 pm

Sure it is Bart! I was a confirmed believer in quite a few cryptids when I was younger. As I got older, did more research & got educated, the beliefs went away almost completely. There are still a few cryptids (generally small, ecologically sensible) that I think may exist though none are the big name ones.

But I gave up looking for an honest politician or ethical lawyer decades ago.

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Re: Plesiosaurs - the secret of Loch Ness? (Nope)

Postby idoubtit » Sat Nov 14, 2009 11:13 pm

Right. Many, but not all, will entertain supernatural explanations. I particularly liked the story in "Three Men Seeking Monsters" by Nick Redfern. Fun.

If you chose to stick to natural explanations, at some point you have to decide if the witness is really mistaken, lying or being hoaxed. That's tough to accept because people often seem so sincere about what they encountered. And they "know what they saw".

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Re: Plesiosaurs - the secret of Loch Ness? (Nope)

Postby Gord » Sun Nov 15, 2009 5:12 am

idoubtit wrote:...people often seem so sincere about what they encountered. And they "know what they saw".

It would make an interesting study. Do you know if anyone has looked into this area before?
"Knowledge grows through infinite timelessness" -- the random fictional Deepak Chopra quote site
"You are also taking my words out of context." -- Justin
"Nullius in verba" -- The Royal Society ["take nobody's word for it"]
#ANDAMOVIE

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Re: Plesiosaurs - the secret of Loch Ness? (Nope)

Postby OlegTheBatty » Sun Nov 15, 2009 6:28 am

Gord wrote:
idoubtit wrote:...people often seem so sincere about what they encountered. And they "know what they saw".

It would make an interesting study. Do you know if anyone has looked into this area before?


Apparently, yes
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There is no statement so absurd that it has not been uttered by some philosopher. - Cicero

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Re: Plesiosaurs - the secret of Loch Ness? (Nope)

Postby idoubtit » Sun Nov 15, 2009 4:51 pm

Gord wrote:
idoubtit wrote:...people often seem so sincere about what they encountered. And they "know what they saw".

It would make an interesting study. Do you know if anyone has looked into this area before?


The essential book to read is Elizabeth Loftus' Eyewitness Testimony. I love that book. She's one of my heros. She took a lot of heat to say things that her research said was valid, though they were hard to take.

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Re: Plesiosaurs - the secret of Loch Ness? (Nope)

Postby YellowJacket » Mon Jul 25, 2011 12:27 am

But I WANT to believe that nessie is a plesiosaur, in fact, a whole colony of plesiosaurs. I want it with all my heart.

and doesn't that make it happen according to Oprah and Deepok whositsface?

I also really really really WANT it to be true that they found the Ivory Bill in Arkansas.
"It's the charisma of the evangelist that the audience believes in and comes to see." - M. Gortner, 1978

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Re: Plesiosaurs - the secret of Loch Ness? (Nope)

Postby bigtim » Mon Jul 25, 2011 6:15 am

YellowJacket wrote:But I WANT to believe that nessie is a plesiosaur, in fact, a whole colony of plesiosaurs. I want it with all my heart.


Yeah, and I WANT Valhalla to be a real place I go to after I die... but it just ain't so....
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Re: Plesiosaurs - the secret of Loch Ness? (Nope)

Postby PennyDotson » Mon Oct 13, 2014 2:15 pm

busterggi wrote:Sure it is Bart! I was a confirmed believer in quite a few cryptids when I was younger. As I got older, did more research & got educated, the beliefs went away almost completely. There are still a few cryptids (generally small, ecologically sensible) that I think may exist though none are the big name ones.

But I gave up looking for an honest politician or ethical lawyer decades ago.



You just wrote about my entire life in this response. lol I definitely use to believe more when I was younger and uneducated, but we all have to grow up and start to have common sense, well hopefully. Can't speak for all, but that's another whole subject in itself :roll:


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