Gigantopithecus-ramifications for bigfoot?

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makaya325
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Gigantopithecus-ramifications for bigfoot?

Post by makaya325 » Wed Oct 21, 2009 1:07 am

Hey all, I am new to this board and would like to discuss the largest ape of all time, Gigantopithecus Black!

Does anyone here think it could be related to bigfoot?

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Re: Gigantopithecus-ramifications for bigfoot?

Post by idoubtit » Wed Oct 21, 2009 1:09 am

Short answer from this corner: No. There is no evidence that this species or anything like it was native to N. America. So, if Bigfoot exists, it not a G. blacki, but possibly a relative.

(I've had some wine tonight and just finished MonsterQuest on flying humanoids, so I'm in a strange mood... :-*

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Re: Gigantopithecus-ramifications for bigfoot?

Post by DoctorAtlantis » Wed Oct 21, 2009 1:10 am

idoubtit wrote:Short answer from this corner: No. There is no evidence that this species or anything like it was native to N. America. So, if Bigfoot exists, it not a G. blacki, but possibly a relative.

(I've had some wine tonight and just finished MonsterQuest on flying humanoids, so I'm in a strange mood... :-*)


I've got to quit doing so much free-lance work and spend more time watching TV. ;)

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Re: Gigantopithecus-ramifications for bigfoot?

Post by idoubtit » Wed Oct 21, 2009 1:11 am

I'm not sure I would recommend more TV watching, although Joe Nickell was on this one. Flying humanoid reports sound really silly to me and I can't take them serious (remember that video from 2007 of the thing floating through a quarry? They showed that) but to bring this sort of back on topic - they showed the Mexican baby primate carcass and did an examination. They recovered no DNA from bones or skin. They had only human medical experts to examine it instead of primatologists. It sure looks like a poor baby monkey or a hoax. Their analysis (or should I say what they showed of it) was very poorly explained.

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Re: Gigantopithecus-ramifications for bigfoot?

Post by makaya325 » Wed Oct 21, 2009 1:11 am

Flying humanoids?!!! That is more incredible than bigfoot existing.

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Re: Gigantopithecus-ramifications for bigfoot?

Post by idoubtit » Wed Oct 21, 2009 1:12 am

makaya325 wrote:Flying humanoids?!!! That is more incredible than bigfoot existing.

Well, don't get your balloons in a bunch. That's all I can say.

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Re: Gigantopithecus-ramifications for bigfoot?

Post by makaya325 » Wed Oct 21, 2009 1:13 am

That episode put the nail in the coffin in terms of MQ's credibility

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Re: Gigantopithecus-ramifications for bigfoot?

Post by idoubtit » Wed Oct 21, 2009 1:13 am

makaya325 wrote:That episode put the nail in the coffin in terms of MQ's credibility

There have been a few like that but that one in particular was odd. The flying humanoid had nothing to do with cryptozoology and the small skeletal critter had nothing to do with the topic either. I thought it was poor in many ways.

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Re: Gigantopithecus-ramifications for bigfoot?

Post by DoctorAtlantis » Wed Oct 21, 2009 1:20 am

Well the "Stalin's Ape Men" episode wasn't particuarly "cryptozoological" either.

I'm not sure what they showed Joe Nickell to make him think that those small bundles of balloons were the culprit. The videos look much more like netted-balloons to me.

For some reason they seem netted to me - like the kind you'd have for a balloon-release. But I see pix of vendors in Mexico with clusres that could probably also fit the bill.

And there are the plastic-bag and paper balloons as well...
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Re: Gigantopithecus-ramifications for bigfoot?

Post by idoubtit » Wed Oct 21, 2009 1:20 am

And from a long distance, would they even need to have been black?

The whole episode was pointless and silly. But, even then, I think I still even learned something - how much people want to believe in the pointless and silly, eschewing all reason.

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Re: Gigantopithecus-ramifications for bigfoot?

Post by Karl » Wed Oct 21, 2009 1:21 am

idoubtit wrote:But, even then, I think I still even learned something - how much people want to believe in the pointless and silly, eschewing all reason.

Precisely.
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Re: Gigantopithecus-ramifications for bigfoot?

Post by idoubtit » Wed Oct 21, 2009 1:22 am

Another blog post about the MQ flying humanoid episode
http://skepchick.org/blog/?p=8660

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Re: Gigantopithecus-ramifications for bigfoot?

Post by Scopi » Wed Oct 21, 2009 1:22 am

So where did the idea that Gigantopithecus has anything to do with Bigfoot even come from? Last I heard, Gigantopithecus is only known from jawbone and tooth fossils in SE Asia, so we don't really know what it looked like and it certainly has no connection to North America. It was almost certainly a great ape which means it's not directly related to humans, and Bigfoot is aways described as being nearly human.

I guess the whole Bigfoot myth is based on the popular idea that our ancestors must have been brutish and large, though everything science knows about our direct ancestors suggests we are the largest of all of them.

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Re: Gigantopithecus-ramifications for bigfoot?

Post by Karl » Wed Oct 21, 2009 1:23 am

The study of Bigfoot is a mixture of speculation and imagination. Science finds its way in there every once in a while, but has almost nothing to do with Bigfoot.
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Re: Gigantopithecus-ramifications for bigfoot?

Post by busterggi » Wed Oct 21, 2009 1:23 am

Because its there.

Seriously, its the only known species of ape larger than modern gorillas & is the only evidence that any larger primates ever lived - its a straw to grasp.

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Re: Gigantopithecus-ramifications for bigfoot?

Post by idoubtit » Wed Oct 21, 2009 1:24 am

Scopi wrote:So where did the idea that Gigantopithecus has anything to do with Bigfoot even come from? Last I heard, Gigantopithecus is only known from jawbone and tooth fossils in SE Asia, so we don't really know what it looked like and it certainly has no connection to North America. It was almost certainly a great ape which means it's not directly related to humans, and Bigfoot is aways described as being nearly human.

That's an excellent question. Who made the first link between the two?

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Re: Gigantopithecus-ramifications for bigfoot?

Post by Karl » Wed Oct 21, 2009 1:25 am

I'm not absolutely sure, but I believe it was the somewhat eccentric Grover Krantz. Jeff Meldrum agreed with the idea, and has carried it on. Many others, it seems, have simply jumped on Dr. Meldrum's band wagon.
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Re: Gigantopithecus-ramifications for bigfoot?

Post by busterggi » Wed Oct 21, 2009 1:25 am

Ummm, I'll check & see if Heuvelmanns or Sanderson made the link earlier & let you know asap.

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Re: Gigantopithecus-ramifications for bigfoot?

Post by DoctorAtlantis » Wed Oct 21, 2009 1:26 am

David Daegling mentions Krantz as a strong supporter, but I seem to remember it being Huevelmans.

Confirmed: On page 152 of Mike McLeod's Anatomy of a Beast he tells us that Heuvelmans started that idea back in 1952.
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Re: Gigantopithecus-ramifications for bigfoot?

Post by busterggi » Wed Oct 21, 2009 1:26 am

Yep, In Sanderson's book from 1961 (Abominable Snowmen - Legend Come to Life) he credits Heuvelmanns in his '52 articles with linking Giganto with yetis.

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Re: Gigantopithecus-ramifications for bigfoot?

Post by Scopi » Wed Oct 21, 2009 1:27 am

I suppose that on the great scale of probability, Giganto (or a decsendant thereof) as Yeti is a bit more plausible. At least they're both on the same super-continent.

I love going on Crypto forums and watching people argue over which bigfoot sighting is which species, even though no one can prove any of them exist.

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Re: Gigantopithecus-ramifications for bigfoot?

Post by idoubtit » Wed Oct 21, 2009 1:27 am

Yep. That's always speculation at its finest. I also chuckle at the way they use similar description of sightings to be "proof" of their credibility and then differences in descriptions as "proof" that there are multiple species. You can't lose!

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Re: Gigantopithecus-ramifications for bigfoot?

Post by Matthew Ellard » Wed Oct 28, 2009 10:51 pm

makaya325 wrote:Hey all, I am new to this board and would like to discuss the largest ape of all time, Gigantopithecus Black!

Does anyone here think it could be related to bigfoot?


(Hello. I'm not sure if I am welcoming you to our forum, or if you are welcoming me to your forum. I guess it doesn't matter)

We have fossil teeth from Gigantopithecus Black. We have some evidence that the last of the species dies 300,000 year ago. Can we not determine the species's diet from its fossil teeth and then determine if this diet can be currently satisfied in the areas that Bigfoot is spotted? It seems to me that 300,000 year is to short for teeth and jaw structure to evolve to change from one diet to another.

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Re: Gigantopithecus-ramifications for bigfoot?

Post by Gord » Thu Oct 29, 2009 4:05 am

I think the main problem with the theory that Gigantopithecus evolved into Bigfoot is the fact that we can find remains of Gigantopithecus, but not remains of Bigfoot. The evidence for Gigantopithecus is pretty certain; but there's no evidence for Gigantopithecus having evolved into anything except, um...dust. That's...that's not really "evolution," though.... *cough*
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Re: Gigantopithecus-ramifications for bigfoot?

Post by idoubtit » Fri Oct 30, 2009 12:48 am

Matthew Ellard wrote:
makaya325 wrote:Hey all, I am new to this board and would like to discuss the largest ape of all time, Gigantopithecus Black!

Does anyone here think it could be related to bigfoot?


(Hello. I'm not sure if I am welcoming you to our forum, or if you are welcoming me to your forum. I guess it doesn't matter)

We have fossil teeth from Gigantopithecus Black. We have some evidence that the last of the species dies 300,000 year ago. Can we not determine the species's diet from its fossil teeth and then determine if this diet can be currently satisfied in the areas that Bigfoot is spotted? It seems to me that 300,000 year is to short for teeth and jaw structure to evolve to change from one diet to another.


Yeah. The dates didn't transfer over. That's an old post when MonsterTalk forums just got going. So, we pretty much put this one to bed early. Nice of you to chime in though. It's "blacki", always with a Latin ending...

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Re: Gigantopithecus-ramifications for bigfoot?

Post by Matthew Ellard » Sat Oct 31, 2009 7:03 am

idoubtit wrote: Nice of you to chime in though. It's "blacki", always with a Latin ending...


Thank you. I will now use "Blacki"

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Re: Gigantopithecus-ramifications for bigfoot?

Post by Gord » Sun Nov 01, 2009 3:19 am

Matthew Ellard wrote:
idoubtit wrote: Nice of you to chime in though. It's "blacki", always with a Latin ending...


Thank you. I will now use "Blacki"

:?

When you pronouce it, do you make it sound like "black-eye" or "blackie?"
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Re: Gigantopithecus-ramifications for bigfoot?

Post by idoubtit » Sun Nov 01, 2009 4:12 pm

Black-eye.

If it was Blackii - it would be black-e-eye. (Eye think)

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Re: Gigantopithecus-ramifications for bigfoot?

Post by landrew » Tue Aug 24, 2010 11:53 am

idoubtit wrote:Black-eye.

If it was Blackii - it would be black-e-eye. (Eye think)

I believe someone named Black was involved in the discovery.
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Re: Gigantopithecus-ramifications for bigfoot?

Post by spookyparadigm » Mon Aug 30, 2010 9:35 pm

Regarding the teeth: While I could be wrong, I believe that phytoliths (small bits of fossilized plant material) imbedded on the surface of some G. blackii teeth were from bamboo. This makes sense given where the teeth are found. In essence, imagine a large orangutan with the dietary and perhaps behavior characteristics of a panda. Not exactly an elusive hi-speed bipdeal man-ape in the forests of North America. Though honestly the momentum in the community seems to be on the side of the paranormal bigfoot people.

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Re: Gigantopithecus-ramifications for bigfoot?

Post by KevinLevites » Fri Aug 04, 2017 8:24 am

As I've said in another thread, I believe that bigfoot may be an artifact of certian Native American traditions.

The famous wilderness author Tom Brown Jr. frankly admits that he was the Jersey Devil on several occasions.

Apparently, he was trained by a Native American scout in the ways of psychological warfare, and using scarey costumes was a way of intimidating an enemy tribe.

He became the Jersey Devil to scare illegal dumpers out of the Pine Barrens...as well as setting booby traps.

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Re: Gigantopithecus-ramifications for bigfoot?

Post by Gord » Fri Aug 04, 2017 9:27 pm

How did I get back here in 2009? I was just walking through 2017! Damn, must've taken a wrong turn at Albuquerque.
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Re: Gigantopithecus-ramifications for bigfoot?

Post by OlegTheBatty » Mon Aug 07, 2017 7:30 pm

A sasquatch posted on a nonmonster forum that it saw me walking in the forest. None of the other posters believed it, and now all my selfies are blurry.
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Re: Gigantopithecus-ramifications for bigfoot?

Post by landrew » Thu Aug 02, 2018 11:24 pm

Such a large hominid as gigantopithecus could fill an ecological niche with modern humans, provided they weren't too proficient at warfare and hunting. They were probably much stronger, could run faster over rough terrain, and could chase down and overpower wild game like deer or boar fairly easily. But once modern humans became more successful, gigantopithecus probably went the way of the neanderthal.
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Re: Gigantopithecus-ramifications for bigfoot?

Post by busterggi » Fri Aug 03, 2018 7:24 pm

landrew are you claiming humans interbred with gigantopitecus until we gene-swamped them?

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Re: Gigantopithecus-ramifications for bigfoot?

Post by landrew » Fri Aug 03, 2018 7:42 pm

busterggi wrote:landrew are you claiming humans interbred with gigantopitecus until we gene-swamped them?
I'm claiming nothing. Gigantopithecus could have existed along with humans until we became very skilled in hunting and warfare. That could be when they fell off the evolutionary tree.
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Re: Gigantopithecus-ramifications for bigfoot?

Post by Matthew Ellard » Sat Aug 04, 2018 2:15 am

landrew wrote:Such a large hominid as gigantopithecus could fill an ecological niche with modern humans, provided they weren't too proficient at warfare and hunting.
Well yes. The teeth suggest it was a vegetarian, may have only eaten bamboo and didn't eat meat, reducing competition against H. Erectus and Neanderthals.

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Re: Gigantopithecus-ramifications for bigfoot?

Post by landrew » Tue Aug 07, 2018 5:53 pm

Gigantopithecus may or may not have been a vegetarian. Our own teeth are adapted more to a vegetarian diet, but we eat meat. At any rate, homo sapiens, being a warlike species, likely would have seen a large hominid as some sort of a threat and probably hunted it to extinction.

Pure speculation of course, but that's all most of us can do.
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