A Former Skeptic Rejects the Skeptic Movement and Explains

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Re: A Former Skeptic Rejects the Skeptic Movement and Explai

Postby kennyc » Mon Sep 30, 2013 10:08 am

octopus1 wrote:
salomed wrote:
kennyc wrote:But I thought Buddha was just a fat, lazy, aristocrat.... :lol: :lol: :lol:


A common misconception. And the fat guy isn't Buddha he is a Chinese monk merchant whose name I forget.

Buddhism oozes woo but the core doctrine is very woo free.


Does it not require faith, nevertheless? Unquestioning faith?


Buddhism has branched and splintered and evolved into almost as many weird versions as Yahweh worship (Judaism, Christianity, Mormans, etc. etc.). This silly salomed guy likes to pretend he's an expert but he's far from it. Zen buddhism is probably the simpliest -- sitting, meditation but even it has 'versions' and yes there is a religious element requiring faith to most Buddhist sects, particularly with regard to reincarnation. I've had knock-down drag-out arguments with some so-called Buddhists experts on that one who claimed Buddhism was not religious yet believed in reincarnation but not belief in souls. :roll:
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Re: A Former Skeptic Rejects the Skeptic Movement and Explai

Postby Monster » Mon Sep 30, 2013 12:40 pm

salomed wrote:
kennyc wrote:But I thought Buddha was just a fat, lazy, aristocrat.... :lol: :lol: :lol:


A common misconception. And the fat guy isn't Buddha he is a Chinese monk merchant whose name I forget.

Buddhism oozes woo but the core doctrine is very woo free.

What is the core doctrine that you think is very woo free?
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Re: A Former Skeptic Rejects the Skeptic Movement and Explai

Postby Daedalus » Mon Sep 30, 2013 1:39 pm

kennyc wrote:
octopus1 wrote:
salomed wrote:
kennyc wrote:But I thought Buddha was just a fat, lazy, aristocrat.... :lol: :lol: :lol:


A common misconception. And the fat guy isn't Buddha he is a Chinese monk merchant whose name I forget.

Buddhism oozes woo but the core doctrine is very woo free.


Does it not require faith, nevertheless? Unquestioning faith?


Buddhism has branched and splintered and evolved into almost as many weird versions as Yahweh worship (Judaism, Christianity, Mormans, etc. etc.). This silly salomed guy likes to pretend he's an expert but he's far from it. Zen buddhism is probably the simpliest -- sitting, meditation but even it has 'versions' and yes there is a religious element requiring faith to most Buddhist sects, particularly with regard to reincarnation. I've had knock-down drag-out arguments with some so-called Buddhists experts on that one who claimed Buddhism was not religious yet believed in reincarnation but not belief in souls. :roll:


He doesn't pretend very well, having never even read the biblical flood story, and only watched a cartoon of The Epic of Gilgamesh.

Really, that strikes me as emblematic of his entire persona... pontificating, without a scrap of actual information... a kind of walking, talking, proof of the Dunning-Kruger effect.
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Re: A Former Skeptic Rejects the Skeptic Movement and Explai

Postby salomed » Mon Sep 30, 2013 4:23 pm

Monster wrote:
salomed wrote:
kennyc wrote:But I thought Buddha was just a fat, lazy, aristocrat.... :lol: :lol: :lol:


A common misconception. And the fat guy isn't Buddha he is a Chinese monk merchant whose name I forget.

Buddhism oozes woo but the core doctrine is very woo free.

What is the core doctrine that you think is very woo free?



The Four Noble Truths
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Re: A Former Skeptic Rejects the Skeptic Movement and Explai

Postby Shen1986 » Mon Sep 30, 2013 4:42 pm

salomed wrote:
Monster wrote:
salomed wrote:
kennyc wrote:But I thought Buddha was just a fat, lazy, aristocrat.... :lol: :lol: :lol:


A common misconception. And the fat guy isn't Buddha he is a Chinese monk merchant whose name I forget.

Buddhism oozes woo but the core doctrine is very woo free.

What is the core doctrine that you think is very woo free?



The Four Noble Truths


The four noble truths are woo according to my opinion.. Just take a look at them:

The Four Noble Truths

The Four Noble Truths purport to describe the central problem of existence according to the historical Buddha.
1.Existence is dukkha. - Commonly translated as "suffering", dukkha is more accurately described as a state of unsatisfactoriness.
2.Dukkha is caused by desire and attachment - There are three kinds of desire: Desire for sensual pleasure, desire for becoming, and desire for non-becoming.
3.There is an end to "dukkha", Nirvana
4.The way to Nirvana is the Eightfold Path


Taken from: http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Buddhism#T ... ble_Truths

Just look on the first principle what is woo:

1.A simple idea that purports to be the one answer to many problems (often including diseases).


Taken from: http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Woo
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Re: A Former Skeptic Rejects the Skeptic Movement and Explai

Postby kennyc » Mon Sep 30, 2013 4:56 pm

And it get's more woo-ie from there.

Most of the trappings of buddhism are made up after the fact. After searching and searching Buddha sat under the bodhi tree and refused to move until he understood. Understood what? Well that is difficult to say, he appeared to be looking for an answer to why he/we are here, why is their suffering in the world...

He sat refusing to take sustenance until he became enlightened.
or maybe it was just hunger pains. :lol:

a lady came by and fed him etc. etc.

I believe sitting, clearing one's mind, relaxing can be very refreshing and perhaps even enlightening, but there is no religion, no belief without evidence in those basic meditation techniques and very well may be supported by physical and mental health science.
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Re: A Former Skeptic Rejects the Skeptic Movement and Explai

Postby Shen1986 » Mon Sep 30, 2013 5:03 pm

kennyc wrote:And it get's more woo-ie from there.

Most of the trappings of buddhism are made up after the fact. After searching and searching Buddha sat under the bodhi tree and refused to move until he understood. Understood what? Well that is difficult to say, he appeared to be looking for an answer to why he/we are here, why is their suffering in the world...

He sat refusing to take sustenance until he became enlightened.
or maybe it was just hunger pains. :lol:

a lady came by and fed him etc. etc.

I believe sitting, clearing one's mind, relaxing can be very refreshing and perhaps even enlightening, but there is no religion, no belief without evidence in those basic meditation techniques and very well may be supported by physical and mental health science.


Don't forget Mara. The demon who wanted to seduce Buddha:

Mara (Sanskrit, also Māra; Tibetan Wylie: bdud; Burmese: မာရ်နတ်; Thai: มาร), in Buddhism, is the demon that tempted Gautama Buddha by trying to seduce him with the vision of beautiful women who, in various legends, are often said to be Mara's daughters.[1] In Buddhist cosmology, Mara personifies unwholesome impulses, unskillfulness, the "death" of the spiritual life. He is a tempter, distracting humans from practicing the spiritual life by making mundane things alluring, or the negative seem positive.


Taken from: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mara_(demon)

I don't want to be evil here but Buddhism is full of woo and NO religion is woo free. I think Salomed had too much of Dalai Lama who said this:

If science proves some belief of Buddhism wrong, then Buddhism will have to change.
—Tenzin Gyatzo[2]


Taken from: http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Dalai_Lama
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Re: A Former Skeptic Rejects the Skeptic Movement and Explai

Postby scrmbldggs » Mon Sep 30, 2013 5:07 pm

kennyc wrote:And it get's more woo-ie from there.

Most of the trappings of buddhism are made up after the fact. After searching and searching Buddha sat under the bodhi tree and refused to move until he understood. Understood what? Well that is difficult to say, he appeared to be looking for an answer to why he/we are here, why is their suffering in the world...

He sat refusing to take sustenance until he became enlightened.

or maybe it was just hunger pains. :lol:

a lady came by and fed him etc. etc.

I believe sitting, clearing one's mind, relaxing can be very refreshing and perhaps even enlightening, but there is no religion, no belief without evidence in those basic meditation techniques and very well may be supported by physical and mental health science.


Symptoms of dehydration can begin quickly because the body does not store water. Once it is used, it is gone and must be replaced. If the water is not replaced, the body starts taking water from the cells in the body and brain. Mental effects of dehydration occur because the brain tissues shrink when the body removes water from the brain cells in an attempt to survive.

Dehydration can cause symptoms ranging from mild irritability to severe hallucinations.

...

Hallucinations can develop if dehydration gets severe enough. The hallucinations can be visual or auditory. In severe hallucinations, the person may be unable to differentiate between reality and the hallucinations.

http://www.therapists.com/blog/the-ment ... ehydration

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Re: A Former Skeptic Rejects the Skeptic Movement and Explai

Postby salomed » Mon Sep 30, 2013 6:09 pm

Shen1986 wrote:
salomed wrote:
Monster wrote:
salomed wrote:
kennyc wrote:But I thought Buddha was just a fat, lazy, aristocrat.... :lol: :lol: :lol:


A common misconception. And the fat guy isn't Buddha he is a Chinese monk merchant whose name I forget.

Buddhism oozes woo but the core doctrine is very woo free.

What is the core doctrine that you think is very woo free?



The Four Noble Truths


The four noble truths are woo according to my opinion.. Just take a look at them:

The Four Noble Truths

The Four Noble Truths purport to describe the central problem of existence according to the historical Buddha.
1.Existence is dukkha. - Commonly translated as "suffering", dukkha is more accurately described as a state of unsatisfactoriness.
2.Dukkha is caused by desire and attachment - There are three kinds of desire: Desire for sensual pleasure, desire for becoming, and desire for non-becoming.
3.There is an end to "dukkha", Nirvana
4.The way to Nirvana is the Eightfold Path


Taken from: http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Buddhism#T ... ble_Truths

Just look on the first principle what is woo:

1.A simple idea that purports to be the one answer to many problems (often including diseases).


Taken from: http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Woo


I'm not sure what one would consider woo about them. Life is dukka. This seems true. Dukka is caused by attachment, I can't refute that. If the attachment stops the dukka stops. A way to stop attachment is to follow a path of self improvement and understanding cultivation....


This seems as true in a hard materialist world as a mystical one.

So what is woo about them? In your opinion, rather than another website.
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Re: A Former Skeptic Rejects the Skeptic Movement and Explai

Postby Gord » Mon Sep 30, 2013 6:33 pm

salomed wrote:Life is dukka. This seems true.

"Life" must have more than one meaning, then. To me, "life" is just a physical/chemical process.

Dukka is caused by attachment, I can't refute that.

Dukka is also caused by lack of attachment. That's because dukka has many causes.

This seems as true in a hard materialist world as a mystical one.

Perhaps, but it's only party true in a hard materialistic world, which means if it's just as true in a mystical one, it's only partly true there as well.
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Re: A Former Skeptic Rejects the Skeptic Movement and Explai

Postby Shen1986 » Tue Oct 01, 2013 5:50 am

salomed wrote:A way to stop attachment is to follow a path of self improvement and understanding cultivation....This seems as true in a hard materialist world as a mystical one. So what is woo about them? In your opinion, rather than another website.


A path of self improvement and understanding cultivation - this is woo to me.. All those religious talks about enlightenment, nirvana etc.. is woo for me because all religion is woo.

I as a freethinker only accept evolution and no religious paths of so called teachers. Buddha was also in the dark like all religious teachers in the past. I would have a question on you Salomed. Lets just look on all the gurus we have in our age who claim several same things like Buddha, Jesus etc.. All of them are fakers what convinced you that Buddha is real when all people who claim are saints or gurus are in our modern times debunked as frauds?
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Re: A Former Skeptic Rejects the Skeptic Movement and Explai

Postby Eric D R » Tue Oct 01, 2013 7:46 am

understanding cultivation


You can accomplish this just by reading a good book about gardening.

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Re: A Former Skeptic Rejects the Skeptic Movement and Explai

Postby scrmbldggs » Tue Oct 01, 2013 9:28 am

:lol:

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Re: A Former Skeptic Rejects the Skeptic Movement and Explai

Postby nmblum88 » Tue Oct 01, 2013 9:53 am

scrmbldggs wrote::lol:



Maybe funny.
Maybe not.
Because in truth you CAN'T understand everything about cultivation by reading a good gardening book.
There are limits to what can learn without actually digging in the dirt, and observing the changes wrought by hours of sunlight and inches of rain.
Because cultivating a garden ... or anything else that demands a certain sensibility and sensitivity (and yes, one could say the same thing about making a rifle, or building houses ) is a combination of amassed fact and practical experience acquired simply be doing the job... many times, through warmth and cold..
Living the life.

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Re: A Former Skeptic Rejects the Skeptic Movement and Explai

Postby Shen1986 » Tue Oct 01, 2013 9:58 am

Eric D R wrote:
understanding cultivation


You can accomplish this just by reading a good book about gardening.


This made me laugh. :lol:

Thanks this was a good one..

But back to the topic. I admit that the only thing the Dalai Lama has done good was to allow scientist to study meditation techniques using all kinds of normal equipment and therefore we learned more about brain states in this kind of meditations. However that is little to the woo of the religion.
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Re: A Former Skeptic Rejects the Skeptic Movement and Explai

Postby Monster » Tue Oct 01, 2013 1:08 pm

salomed wrote:
I'm not sure what one would consider woo about them. Life is dukka. This seems true. Dukka is caused by attachment, I can't refute that. If the attachment stops the dukka stops. A way to stop attachment is to follow a path of self improvement and understanding cultivation....


This seems as true in a hard materialist world as a mystical one.

So what is woo about them? In your opinion, rather than another website.

I have to agree with Shen1986. The four noble truths are just not right. Life is more than unsatisfactoriness. It's also "satisfactoriness". Desire and attachment to a woman I love, who reciprocates that love, isn't dissatisfaction. And if you think Nirvana is another dimension, then I think it's safe to just ignore that.
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Re: A Former Skeptic Rejects the Skeptic Movement and Explai

Postby salomed » Tue Oct 01, 2013 7:25 pm

octopus1 wrote:
salomed wrote:
kennyc wrote:But I thought Buddha was just a fat, lazy, aristocrat.... :lol: :lol: :lol:


A common misconception. And the fat guy isn't Buddha he is a Chinese monk merchant whose name I forget.

Buddhism oozes woo but the core doctrine is very woo free.


Does it not require faith, nevertheless? Unquestioning faith?


No, I don't think so, quite the opposite. :)
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Re: A Former Skeptic Rejects the Skeptic Movement and Explai

Postby Daedalus » Tue Oct 01, 2013 7:31 pm

salomed wrote:
octopus1 wrote:
salomed wrote:
kennyc wrote:But I thought Buddha was just a fat, lazy, aristocrat.... :lol: :lol: :lol:


A common misconception. And the fat guy isn't Buddha he is a Chinese monk merchant whose name I forget.

Buddhism oozes woo but the core doctrine is very woo free.


Does it not require faith, nevertheless? Unquestioning faith?


No, I don't think so, quite the opposite. :)


Of course at this point it's probably wise to ask if you've ever really studied Bhuddism, or if your knowledge of yet another religion's traditions comes from youtube cartoons as well.
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Re: A Former Skeptic Rejects the Skeptic Movement and Explai

Postby salomed » Tue Oct 01, 2013 7:39 pm

Shen1986 wrote: All those religious talks about enlightenment, nirvana etc.. is woo for me because all religion is woo.


Thats your opinion, and respect to it, but you seem to be expressing it as a circular argument. Anyhoos...

>>>I as a freethinker only accept evolution and no religious paths of so called teachers.

That seems to suggest, by definition, you are not a freethinker! :P At least not by my understanding of the term.

>>Buddha was also in the dark like all religious teachers in the past.

So Socrates and Epicetus etc, all in the dark? No point at all in their teachings? Lordy... that is dark.

>>I would have a question on you Salomed. Lets just look on all the gurus we have in our age who claim several same things like Buddha, Jesus etc..

Ok.. but technically Buddha was just a teacher and jesus, depending on your view, a teacher, a son of god or a fiction... not a guru by my understanding.... but anyhoooooos...

>>All of them are fakers what convinced you that Buddha is real when all people who claim are saints or gurus are in our modern times debunked as frauds?

I'm not sure all modern gurus are fakes. I don't see what is fake about, say, Rupert Spira. But I think by far, yes, perhaps all, modern gurus are fakes, frauds, charlatans or deludes.

As for the Buddha, I am not at all convinced he is real. Like Jesus he may be an amalgamation. He may be a piece of millennia old social control. There is a fascinating theory that Buddha may be a figure much older than 25 centuries. I neither know nor care if he was real, even if he was he was just a prince.

However, so far I have failed to refute the four noble truths and the three seals of existence, and so, as a skeptic, I am going to hold them as true. If you or anyone can actually refute them then I would stop believing in them, but it will take more than a bloke on the internet saying "Ohhhh Woooo":)
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Re: A Former Skeptic Rejects the Skeptic Movement and Explai

Postby Daedalus » Tue Oct 01, 2013 7:42 pm

Salomed wrote:However, so far I have failed to refute the four noble truths and the three seals of existence, and so, as a skeptic, I am going to hold them as true.


So in your world, assertions are true until proven false, thus inverting the burden of proof.

Well good news! I have the cure for HIV/AIDS, prove me wrong.
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Re: A Former Skeptic Rejects the Skeptic Movement and Explai

Postby salomed » Tue Oct 01, 2013 7:47 pm

Monster wrote:I have to agree with Shen1986. The four noble truths are just not right. Life is more than unsatisfactoriness. It's also "satisfactoriness". Desire and attachment to a woman I love, who reciprocates that love, isn't dissatisfaction.


When I first started to get the four noble truths I had exactly the same thought. Loads of life is great, its not all bad, etc.

But I was mistaken. Its not that everything is unsatisfactory, rather it is that every conditioned experience is unsatisfactory. Your love for your woman, the pure part of it, isn't conditioned by anything external to the connection you and her have. Now there may be parts that are conditioned, and those parts will inevitably lead to the negative. The things external to your love are conditioned and they exist because of attachment, not because of anything internal to the love (This is the love version of the second noble truth, as I understand it.)

But... your love will end because of external things. You die. You have an affair. She dies. Etc. It is inevitable that even the unconditioned will end due to conditioned things.

>>>And if you think Nirvana is another dimension, then I think it's safe to just ignore that.

No, I don't think that and will happily ignore such claims with you:)

Cheerio!
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Re: A Former Skeptic Rejects the Skeptic Movement and Explai

Postby Monster » Tue Oct 01, 2013 9:11 pm

salomed wrote:>>>And if you think Nirvana is another dimension, then I think it's safe to just ignore that.

No, I don't think that and will happily ignore such claims with you:)

Cheerio!

What do you think Nirvana is? Simply "the state of not having attachments"?
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Re: A Former Skeptic Rejects the Skeptic Movement and Explai

Postby Shen1986 » Wed Oct 02, 2013 6:31 am

salomed wrote:Thats your opinion, and respect to it, but you seem to be expressing it as a circular argument. Anyhoos...


Circular argument?? Has any of the religious claims any evidence to back them up besides claims??

salomed wrote:>>>I as a freethinker only accept evolution and no religious paths of so called teachers.That seems to suggest, by definition, you are not a freethinker! At least not by my understanding of the term.


If your definition of a freethinker is a person who is open to all fantasies of people(where some of those people were mentally ill or are mentally ill in our time) then nope I am not a freethinker.

Also evolution has evidence what has religion besides their ideas?? Do they have evidence? Nope..

>>Buddha was also in the dark like all religious teachers in the past.

>>I would have a question on you Salomed. Lets just look on all the gurus we have in our age who claim several same things like Buddha, Jesus etc..

Ok.. but technically Buddha was just a teacher and jesus, depending on your view, a teacher, a son of god or a fiction... not a guru by my understanding.... but anyhoooooos...


Buddha was not only a teacher. He was made into a legendary figure. He was attacked by Mara a demon.. There are many legends around him and his birth. Therefore it sounds more like a typical Jesus figure. Believers in Jesus also claim that Jesus was only a teacher..

So Socrates and Epicetus etc, all in the dark? No point at all in their teachings? Lordy... that is dark.


Yup Socrates a dualist.. Yup he was in the dark. We have no soul:

Socrates was convinced that our souls - where virtues and vices are found - are vastly more important for our lives than our bodies or external circumstances.


Taken from: http://www.muslimphilosophy.com/ip/rep/A108

Epicetus another dualism woo:

There is therefore a clear contrast in status between body and mind or soul. Epictetus repeatedly uses language belittling the body or representing it as a mere instrument of the mind: it is “pathetic little flesh,” “cleverly molded clay,” a “little donkey” (1.1.10, 1.3.5, 4.1.79).


Taken from: http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/epictetus/#MinBod

Ok that was a joke really..

They had some points but that doesn't mean that they were right in their woo..

Who is Lordy??


As for Rupert Spira I will take a look at him because its the first time I heard of him but he works as this:

Rupert Spira is an English studio potter.


Taken from: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rupert_Spira

His interest is in:

Spira is also a spiritual writer and teacher in the branch of Non Duality (Advaita, in Sanskrit), exploring the nature of experience in his essays and texts. He has published a book (The Transparency of Things, Non Duality Press, 2008), and a few DVDs with interviews. He holds regular meetings and retreats in the UK, Europe and the US.


Taken from: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rupert_Spira

However, so far I have failed to refute the four noble truths and the three seals of existence, and so, as a skeptic, I am going to hold them as true. If you or anyone can actually refute them then I would stop believing in them, but it will take more than a bloke on the internet saying "Ohhhh Woooo":)


What is there to refute on the Noble Truths besides that its woo? How can all life be just suffering? Like Monster said when I am with my wife who loves me and understands me there is no suffering.. When I have a good vacation with friends and we have a great time there is also no suffering.. There are many instances where there is no suffering in life.

Also it is foolishness that all is caused by suffering because when so why are we born? Why do we exist in the first place when the goal of Nirvana is to cease to exist? To stop the circle of reincarnation and suffering. We exist according to Buddha to stop the suffering of our past lives and the goal is Nirvana to stop to exist - no heaven, no hell but to stop existing...

Therefore Buddha invented reincarnation because he could not find a answer for this. When we reincarnate then its for our suffering which we want to destroy in this world..
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Re: A Former Skeptic Rejects the Skeptic Movement and Explai

Postby salomed » Wed Oct 02, 2013 3:36 pm

Shen1986 wrote:
salomed wrote:Thats your opinion, and respect to it, but you seem to be expressing it as a circular argument. Anyhoos...


Circular argument?? Has any of the religious claims any evidence to back them up besides claims??

salomed wrote:>>>I as a freethinker only accept evolution and no religious paths of so called teachers.That seems to suggest, by definition, you are not a freethinker! At least not by my understanding of the term.


If your definition of a freethinker is a person who is open to all fantasies of people(where some of those people were mentally ill or are mentally ill in our time) then nope I am not a freethinker.

Also evolution has evidence what has religion besides their ideas?? Do they have evidence? Nope..

>>Buddha was also in the dark like all religious teachers in the past.

>>I would have a question on you Salomed. Lets just look on all the gurus we have in our age who claim several same things like Buddha, Jesus etc..

Ok.. but technically Buddha was just a teacher and jesus, depending on your view, a teacher, a son of god or a fiction... not a guru by my understanding.... but anyhoooooos...


Buddha was not only a teacher. He was made into a legendary figure. He was attacked by Mara a demon.. There are many legends around him and his birth. Therefore it sounds more like a typical Jesus figure. Believers in Jesus also claim that Jesus was only a teacher..

So Socrates and Epicetus etc, all in the dark? No point at all in their teachings? Lordy... that is dark.


Yup Socrates a dualist.. Yup he was in the dark. We have no soul:

Socrates was convinced that our souls - where virtues and vices are found - are vastly more important for our lives than our bodies or external circumstances.


Taken from: http://www.muslimphilosophy.com/ip/rep/A108

Epicetus another dualism woo:

There is therefore a clear contrast in status between body and mind or soul. Epictetus repeatedly uses language belittling the body or representing it as a mere instrument of the mind: it is “pathetic little flesh,” “cleverly molded clay,” a “little donkey” (1.1.10, 1.3.5, 4.1.79).


Taken from: http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/epictetus/#MinBod

Ok that was a joke really..

They had some points but that doesn't mean that they were right in their woo..

Who is Lordy??


As for Rupert Spira I will take a look at him because its the first time I heard of him but he works as this:

Rupert Spira is an English studio potter.


Taken from: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rupert_Spira

His interest is in:

Spira is also a spiritual writer and teacher in the branch of Non Duality (Advaita, in Sanskrit), exploring the nature of experience in his essays and texts. He has published a book (The Transparency of Things, Non Duality Press, 2008), and a few DVDs with interviews. He holds regular meetings and retreats in the UK, Europe and the US.


Taken from: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rupert_Spira

However, so far I have failed to refute the four noble truths and the three seals of existence, and so, as a skeptic, I am going to hold them as true. If you or anyone can actually refute them then I would stop believing in them, but it will take more than a bloke on the internet saying "Ohhhh Woooo":)


What is there to refute on the Noble Truths besides that its woo? How can all life be just suffering? Like Monster said when I am with my wife who loves me and understands me there is no suffering.. When I have a good vacation with friends and we have a great time there is also no suffering.. There are many instances where there is no suffering in life.

Also it is foolishness that all is caused by suffering because when so why are we born? Why do we exist in the first place when the goal of Nirvana is to cease to exist? To stop the circle of reincarnation and suffering. We exist according to Buddha to stop the suffering of our past lives and the goal is Nirvana to stop to exist - no heaven, no hell but to stop existing...

Therefore Buddha invented reincarnation because he could not find a answer for this. When we reincarnate then its for our suffering which we want to destroy in this world..


Ok.
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Re: A Former Skeptic Rejects the Skeptic Movement and Explai

Postby salomed » Wed Oct 02, 2013 3:38 pm

Monster wrote:
salomed wrote:>>>And if you think Nirvana is another dimension, then I think it's safe to just ignore that.

No, I don't think that and will happily ignore such claims with you:)

Cheerio!

What do you think Nirvana is? Simply "the state of not having attachments"?


I don't know. An idealised state of nonattachment? Whatever it is the Buddha seems to have reached it and then carried on for five decades in that state.

I really don't know:)
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Re: A Former Skeptic Rejects the Skeptic Movement and Explai

Postby Shen1986 » Wed Oct 02, 2013 4:43 pm

Please tell me who or what means Lordy in your post, Salomed. Thanks...
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Re: A Former Skeptic Rejects the Skeptic Movement and Explai

Postby salomed » Wed Oct 02, 2013 4:47 pm

Shen1986 wrote:Please tell me who or what means Lordy in your post, Salomed. Thanks...


Oh right, its an expression like "Oh Wow". I assume now American ain't your first language. I shall try to be less verbose when replying to you! :)
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Re: A Former Skeptic Rejects the Skeptic Movement and Explai

Postby Shen1986 » Wed Oct 02, 2013 4:49 pm

salomed wrote:
Shen1986 wrote:Please tell me who or what means Lordy in your post, Salomed. Thanks...


Oh right, its an expression like "Oh Wow". I assume now American ain't your first language. I shall try to be less verbose when replying to you! :)


Nope. Europe, Slovakia. Czech is my second language. Third is German. Fourth is English. Fifth is Polish to some degree.

Thanks for clearing this up..
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Re: A Former Skeptic Rejects the Skeptic Movement and Explai

Postby Daedalus » Wed Oct 02, 2013 4:50 pm

Shen1986 wrote:
salomed wrote:
Shen1986 wrote:Please tell me who or what means Lordy in your post, Salomed. Thanks...


Oh right, its an expression like "Oh Wow". I assume now American ain't your first language. I shall try to be less verbose when replying to you! :)


Nope. Europe, Slovakia. Czech is my second language. Third is German. Fourth is English. Fifth is Polish to some degree.

Thanks for clearing this up..


Wow, you're quite the linguistic athlete! Good for you man. For the record, your English is quite good, and while you have the occasional slip it's always perfectly comprehensible.
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Re: A Former Skeptic Rejects the Skeptic Movement and Explai

Postby Shen1986 » Wed Oct 02, 2013 4:54 pm

Daedalus wrote:
Shen1986 wrote:
salomed wrote:
Shen1986 wrote:Please tell me who or what means Lordy in your post, Salomed. Thanks...


Oh right, its an expression like "Oh Wow". I assume now American ain't your first language. I shall try to be less verbose when replying to you! :)


Nope. Europe, Slovakia. Czech is my second language. Third is German. Fourth is English. Fifth is Polish to some degree.

Thanks for clearing this up..


Wow, you're quite the linguistic athlete! Good for you man. For the record, your English is quite good, and while you have the occasional slip it's always perfectly comprehensible.


Thanks for the compliment. I have studied them.. Also I know some Russian but its weak.. The only good thing about Slovakia is that the language is little similar to Polish and a lot to Czech and I have been to Czech some times... Therefore I had some basis to study these languages..
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Re: A Former Skeptic Rejects the Skeptic Movement and Explai

Postby truskeptic » Tue Aug 19, 2014 4:30 am

I know this is a very old post, and the link doesn't work anymore, but wanted to briefly comment on it...I think I have an understanding of the article, and I run into this issue all the time...The movement driven skeptic. In my opinion, they've significantly contributed to the word "skeptic" becoming an aspersion. In many cases, I've found it difficult to find skepticism that is unbiased, and I easily tend to become skeptical of the skeptic!

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Re: A Former Skeptic Rejects the Skeptic Movement and Explai

Postby Gord » Tue Aug 19, 2014 8:24 am

truskeptic wrote:In many cases, I've found it difficult to find skepticism that is unbiased...!

You mean, skepticism that isn't skeptical.

I've not doubt that's hard to find!
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Re: A Former Skeptic Rejects the Skeptic Movement and Explai

Postby truskeptic » Tue Aug 19, 2014 8:48 pm

Yes, we'll said. Thank you.

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Re: A Former Skeptic Rejects the Skeptic Movement and Explai

Postby Gawdzilla Sama » Tue Aug 19, 2014 11:43 pm


What is this "Skeptic Movement" anyway?
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Re: A Former Skeptic Rejects the Skeptic Movement and Explai

Postby truskeptic » Thu Aug 21, 2014 1:13 am

Gawdzilla Sama wrote:

What is this "Skeptic Movement" anyway?


It's an ideology rather than a truth-seeking doubt. For instance, career "debunkers" are a part of the skeptic movement, and in a light very similar, if not identical to fundamentalism, they are not interested in evidence or data that provides any counter to their predetermined ideas. And unfortunately, most haven't the slightest clue what they are talking about.

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Re: A Former Skeptic Rejects the Skeptic Movement and Explai

Postby Gawdzilla Sama » Thu Aug 21, 2014 1:18 am

truskeptic wrote:
Gawdzilla Sama wrote:

What is this "Skeptic Movement" anyway?


It's an ideology rather than a truth-seeking doubt. For instance, career "debunkers" are a part of the skeptic movement, and in a light very similar, if not identical to fundamentalism, they are not interested in evidence or data that provides any counter to their predetermined ideas. And unfortunately, most haven't the slightest clue what they are talking about.

I detect an "own agenda" in there.
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Re: A Former Skeptic Rejects the Skeptic Movement and Explai

Postby Matthew Ellard » Thu Aug 21, 2014 2:25 am

truskeptic wrote:.The movement driven skeptic. In my opinion, they've significantly contributed to the word "skeptic" becoming an aspersion.
How can I be a movement based skeptic if I never heard the expression used as a "collective term" before ten years ago? This forum is a collective of people who come from a varied background who simply like this forum's stance and that of its host, the Skeptic Society.

I came from cult busting. I imagine Gawdzilla comes from "observing lunacy in the military" Shen80 interest appears to derive from debunking medical and psychological claims. Kenny has poetic comments on the silly things people do. Tom Palven has strong political views. I could go on for ever...... I think that the only similarity we all share is our respect for the scientific process and/or critical thinking. That's not a "religious" thing but rather a "universal tool" for anyone.

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Re: A Former Skeptic Rejects the Skeptic Movement and Explai

Postby truskeptic » Thu Aug 21, 2014 2:36 am

[/quote]
I detect an "own agenda" in there.[/quote]


You disagree with my description? Deny it exists? Or, do I have a fish on the hook?

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Re: A Former Skeptic Rejects the Skeptic Movement and Explai

Postby truskeptic » Thu Aug 21, 2014 2:41 am

Matthew Ellard wrote:
truskeptic wrote:.The movement driven skeptic. In my opinion, they've significantly contributed to the word "skeptic" becoming an aspersion.
How can I be a movement based skeptic if I never heard the expression used as a "collective term" before ten years ago? This forum is a collective of people who come from a varied background who simply like this forum's stance and that of its host, the Skeptic Society.

I came from cult busting. I imagine Gawdzilla comes from "observing lunacy in the military" Shen80 interest appears to derive from debunking medical and psychological claims. Kenny has poetic comments on the silly things people do. Tom Palven has strong political views. I could go on for ever...... I think that the only similarity we all share is our respect for the scientific process and/or critical thinking. That's not a "religious" thing but rather a "universal tool" for anyone.


Well, I suppose you assume I'm speaking to you directly, or maybe you feel like because you're signed up to a this forum, you automatically fit the bill. Truly, I am commenting on the original posting. Don't you feel like skepticism should be applied to everyone's ideas? Surely, you aren't suggesting that because you're on this forum, your ideas aren't subject to skepticism.

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Re: A Former Skeptic Rejects the Skeptic Movement and Explai

Postby truskeptic » Thu Aug 21, 2014 2:46 am

truskeptic wrote:
Matthew Ellard wrote:
truskeptic wrote:.The movement driven skeptic. In my opinion, they've significantly contributed to the word "skeptic" becoming an aspersion.
How can I be a movement based skeptic if I never heard the expression used as a "collective term" before ten years ago? This forum is a collective of people who come from a varied background who simply like this forum's stance and that of its host, the Skeptic Society.

I came from cult busting. I imagine Gawdzilla comes from "observing lunacy in the military" Shen80 interest appears to derive from debunking medical and psychological claims. Kenny has poetic comments on the silly things people do. Tom Palven has strong political views. I could go on for ever...... I think that the only similarity we all share is our respect for the scientific process and/or critical thinking. That's not a "religious" thing but rather a "universal tool" for anyone.


...and if I could add to that...I don't necessarily have a favorite topic that I like to debunk. However, if I see a topic that I might have different ideas on, I like to make my comments. The paranormal is fun for me, but certainly not the only thing I like to pick apart.


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