A Former Skeptic Rejects the Skeptic Movement and Explains

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A Former Skeptic Rejects the Skeptic Movement and Explains

Postby Eric D R » Wed Sep 18, 2013 7:33 am


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Re: A Former Skeptic Rejects the Skeptic Movement and Explai

Postby Monster » Wed Sep 18, 2013 2:41 pm

So the guy doesn't like the label of skeptic. And he thinks that science is used as a thought process far more frequently than wooism. Yeah, maybe so.

This paragraph makes no sense though:
the article wrote:That's right: the nerds won, decades ago, and they're now as thoroughly established as any other part of the establishment. And while nerds a relatively new elite, they're overwhelmingly the same as the old: rich, white, male, and desperate to hang onto what they've got. And I have come to realise that skepticism, in their hands, is just another tool to secure and advance their privileged position, and beat down their inferiors. As a skeptic, I was not shoring up the revolutionary barricades: instead, I was cheering on the Tsar's cavalry.


This paragraph is false:
the article wrote:If anything, I'm convinced that most of them would prefer to keep the resources unequal. The average skeptic has little time for spreading the word of reason to the educationally or intellectually lacking. His superior reason is what separates him from the chumps around him, and he has no interest in closing the gap. For him, the appeal of the skeptic clique is its exclusivity. It's a refuge from the stupid masses, and a marker of his own special privileges. It's Mensa rebranded.


The author is right about some things and wrong about others. It's too much to read.
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Re: A Former Skeptic Rejects the Skeptic Movement and Explai

Postby robinson » Wed Sep 18, 2013 2:53 pm

So, pretty much like the rest of the internet
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Re: A Former Skeptic Rejects the Skeptic Movement and Explai

Postby kennyc » Wed Sep 18, 2013 2:58 pm

Wait, there's a 'skeptic movement?' Wow! I had no idea. :lol:
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Re: A Former Skeptic Rejects the Skeptic Movement and Explai

Postby robinson » Wed Sep 18, 2013 3:01 pm

Please, don't be ignorant.

Everybody knows what the Skeptical movement is.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skeptical_movement
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Re: A Former Skeptic Rejects the Skeptic Movement and Explai

Postby kennyc » Wed Sep 18, 2013 3:03 pm

Eric D R wrote:Thoughts?:

...



He's a hypocrite.

He claims to embrace science and the scientific method and in that a major element is skepticism.

So if he still holds science and rational inquiry as truth justice and the 'merikan way, then he still embraces skepticism whether he admits it or not.
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Re: A Former Skeptic Rejects the Skeptic Movement and Explai

Postby kennyc » Wed Sep 18, 2013 3:05 pm

Monster wrote:,,,
The author is right about some things and wrong about others. It's too much to read.



This is true, I didn't bother reading beyond the first 'screen' or so....that was enough to tell me he is a very confused soul.

:roll:
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Re: A Former Skeptic Rejects the Skeptic Movement and Explai

Postby Austin Harper » Wed Sep 18, 2013 4:13 pm

Monster wrote:This paragraph is false:
the article wrote:If anything, I'm convinced that most of them would prefer to keep the resources unequal. The average skeptic has little time for spreading the word of reason to the educationally or intellectually lacking. His superior reason is what separates him from the chumps around him, and he has no interest in closing the gap. For him, the appeal of the skeptic clique is its exclusivity. It's a refuge from the stupid masses, and a marker of his own special privileges. It's Mensa rebranded.

Right, the reason we have rallys, conferences, and meetups publicly is to be an exclusive clique. :roll:
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Re: A Former Skeptic Rejects the Skeptic Movement and Explai

Postby kennyc » Wed Sep 18, 2013 4:44 pm

Mensa? That's just mental! :roll:
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Re: A Former Skeptic Rejects the Skeptic Movement and Explai

Postby Eric D R » Wed Sep 18, 2013 7:21 pm

kennyc wrote:
Eric D R wrote:Thoughts?:

...



He's a hypocrite.

He claims to embrace science and the scientific method and in that a major element is skepticism.

So if he still holds science and rational inquiry as truth justice and the 'merikan way, then he still embraces skepticism whether he admits it or not.


He didn't say he was opposed to skepticism in the sense of thinking skeptically. He's opposed to the group-think of the organized ideological movement operating under the title banner of "skepticism".

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Re: A Former Skeptic Rejects the Skeptic Movement and Explai

Postby kennyc » Wed Sep 18, 2013 7:22 pm

Eric D R wrote:
kennyc wrote:
Eric D R wrote:Thoughts?:

...



He's a hypocrite.

He claims to embrace science and the scientific method and in that a major element is skepticism.

So if he still holds science and rational inquiry as truth justice and the 'merikan way, then he still embraces skepticism whether he admits it or not.


He didn't say he was opposed to skepticism in the sense of thinking skeptically. He's opposed to the group-think of the organized ideological movement operating under the title banner of "skepticism".


My point is, there is no such thing. He's deluded and got a weird chip on his shoulder.

And as I said, unless he's rejecting science and rational inquiry he's still a skeptic.
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Re: A Former Skeptic Rejects the Skeptic Movement and Explai

Postby Eric D R » Wed Sep 18, 2013 7:33 pm

One demographic skeptics are particularly uncomfortable with is the female of the species. It's an increasingly acknowledged fact that the skeptic community is rife with sexism -- especially in the wake of the "elevator guy" controversy, about which more later. Women are a small minority in the skeptic world, and the few who get involved get {!#%@} thrown at them constantly by their skeptic peers. Every day, they suffer the whole gamut of attitudes from sneering to leering.


Taken from the article linked in the OP, this charge is something i have seen leveled by a number of critics of the skeptic movement. As with the other charges he makes, its a generalization not intended to apply to everone in the movement but rather to a general tendency. I think in that sense its probably true, but it may as well be true of any organization dominated by males.

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Re: A Former Skeptic Rejects the Skeptic Movement and Explai

Postby nmblum88 » Wed Sep 18, 2013 10:39 pm

kennyc wrote:
Monster wrote:,,,
The author is right about some things and wrong about others. It's too much to read.



This is true, I didn't bother reading beyond the first 'screen' or so....that was enough to tell me he is a very confused soul.

:roll:


Commenting with enthusiasm on a post one hasn't actually read is not really a sign of either intellectual honesty, OR, for that matter intelligence.
It is in fact risible.
And brings to mind the rather peculiar, if not equally laughable, habit of recommending books and articles for others read based on reviews of titles one has not actually read oneself (and more than probably have no intention of reading).
Clearly, and hooray for those here who are NEVer confused and can therefore be so contemptuous of those who are (or of those one chooses to label as being so).
But is there an illegality or sin, in being confused?
Confusion in matters intellectual, emotional, practical , personal, sexual are not only normal, but the admission of confusion COULD be the first step toward seeking clarification, of pursuing education.
COULD BE.
And too often people who project themselves as never being either confused or even lacking information, are just engaging in bombast.
Bombast trumps, in distastefulness. confusion when it comes to moral, or ethics.... or certainly science.
Don't you think?

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Re: A Former Skeptic Rejects the Skeptic Movement and Explai

Postby Gord » Thu Sep 19, 2013 5:31 am


He's talking about politics, not skepticism.

I had a skeptical movement a while ago, but it flushed down the toilet easily and now I'm happy.
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Re: A Former Skeptic Rejects the Skeptic Movement and Explai

Postby Shen1986 » Thu Sep 19, 2013 9:06 am

I am having problems to digest the blog itself. It is a heaven for woo I will only post examples:

http://subversivethinking.blogspot.sk/2 ... eptic.html
http://subversivethinking.blogspot.sk/2 ... riter.html
http://subversivethinking.blogspot.sk/2 ... lliss.html

Chris Carter is a woo peddler - http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Chris_Carter

Or some quotes:

It is a slight misquote, because I was using the term in the more general sense of ESP -- that is, I was not talking about remote viewing per se, but rather Ganzfeld, etc as well. I think that they meet the usual standards for a normal claim, but are not convincing enough for an extraordinary claim. Richard Wiseman's clarification of his previous citation on remote viewing. Emphasis in blue added (See more )


-The SAIC experiments are well-designed and the investigators have taken pains to eliminate the known weaknesses in previous parapsychological research. In addition, I cannot provide suitable candidates for what flaws, if any, might be present.- Ray Hyman on SAIC experiments on remote viewing. (See Hyman's


-The other major challenge to the skeptic's position is, of course, the fact that opposing positive evidence exists in the parapsychological literature. I couldn't dismiss it all. Susan Blackmore in "Confessions of a Parapsychologist" (p.74)


This is all from the opening web-page:

http://subversivethinking.blogspot.sk/

Therefore he is taking quotes from other skeptics and presents them that there is paranormal phenomena and that all like telepathy and stuff like that is real. I have some experience with this site because it pops up many times on the mind-energy forum and people who love woo cite the site many times. Also the site like in the case of Novella vs. Talliss it protects Talliss and his woo arguments..
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Re: A Former Skeptic Rejects the Skeptic Movement and Explai

Postby Martin Brock » Thu Sep 19, 2013 11:39 am

I'm skeptical of movements, but this guy's hardly leaving movements behind. His rant - on rampant "sexism" among the elitist, rich, white, male engineers and scientists occupying their privileged positions in the corporate kleptocracy and trampling distressed damsels beneath their impenetrable glass ceiling - is ridiculous, and Richard Dawkins was right to ridicule it. Bond whines, correctly enough, about pissing contests in web forums, but he doesn't seem to realize that males butt heads precisely to appeal to damsels, so he seems oblivious to the fact that his entire mea culpa (on behalf of all the other skeptics) is just another example of the contest that he claims to flee. How can he write such an incredibly long, macho display of erudition - attacking macho displays of erudition - without his head exploding?

Ditto for his critique of computational linquistics. He obviously doesn't realize that Terry Winograd, ‎Douglas Hofstadter and countless other AI researchers reached his astounding conclusion decades ago and that it was already conventional among these researchers when I was an undergraduate in the early eighties.

Ditto for the predictably correct assault on "claims of free-market economics" vaguely conflating Ponzi schemes, slavery, shitty jobs, meager salaries, perpetual motion machines and anything else he imagines in this politically incorrect category.

He's obviously a follower of P.Z. Myers, the most notoriously fanatical, charismatic leader in the "skeptical movement", and he doesn't seem to be leaving Myers' flock at all in this post.
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Re: A Former Skeptic Rejects the Skeptic Movement and Explai

Postby Eric D R » Thu Sep 19, 2013 8:07 pm

Shen, my OP was not intended to be about the blog site where I found the article. It was intended to be just about the article itself. Unfortunately it happened to be found on that particular blogsite, but I found it because of a link someone posted somewhere else.

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Re: A Former Skeptic Rejects the Skeptic Movement and Explai

Postby Eric D R » Fri Sep 20, 2013 5:43 am

Oh, i forgot to specify that the article we're discussing was not written by the same person who maintains the blog where it was published (or reprinted for all I know).

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Re: A Former Skeptic Rejects the Skeptic Movement and Explai

Postby Shen1986 » Fri Sep 20, 2013 7:35 am

Eric D R wrote:Shen, my OP was not intended to be about the blog site where I found the article. It was intended to be just about the article itself. Unfortunately it happened to be found on that particular blogsite, but I found it because of a link someone posted somewhere else.


I only wanted to point out that its strange that only this blog hosts this "confession" why didn't other more reliable sites have this hosted??

I also read the article but for my liking it is very weak. He just keeps bashing around that debunkers are evil. This goes well with the blog where it is posted and that is the reason why the administrator of the blog posted this to show that all debunkers and skeptics are evil - it is like Charles Tart is posting this.
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Re: A Former Skeptic Rejects the Skeptic Movement and Explai

Postby Eric D R » Fri Sep 20, 2013 6:56 pm


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Re: A Former Skeptic Rejects the Skeptic Movement and Explai

Postby kennyc » Fri Sep 20, 2013 7:04 pm



And your point is???
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Re: A Former Skeptic Rejects the Skeptic Movement and Explai

Postby Daedalus » Sat Sep 21, 2013 4:37 pm

Poe.
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Re: A Former Skeptic Rejects the Skeptic Movement and Explai

Postby Eric D R » Tue Sep 24, 2013 8:21 am

Daedalus wrote:Poe.

??

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Re: A Former Skeptic Rejects the Skeptic Movement and Explai

Postby Eric D R » Tue Sep 24, 2013 8:24 am

Kenny, my point was to show Shen that the blog site where i found the linked article posted at the top of this thread was not really relevant to the article itself. The author of the article did not apparently choose that blog site as the place to publish his article. I was also posting some links where people could read reviews and discussion of the article if they were interested.

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Re: A Former Skeptic Rejects the Skeptic Movement and Explai

Postby Shen1986 » Tue Sep 24, 2013 8:30 am

Ok looking on the pages because I am having some time now:

http://plover.net/~bonds/nolongeraskeptic.html


He wrote other criticisms on skepticism:

- YOUR BALONEY DETECTION KIT SUCKS: http://plover.net/~bonds/bdksucks.html

Here he criticizes Carl Sagan's Baloney Detection Kit.

One of the articles I agree with him is this:

- http://plover.net/~bonds/skepticism.html

From what I read he is something in the middle a agnostic now.

This essay is a mess in several important ways, but I also think it's onto something.


From this site you posted: http://philosoraptor.blogspot.com/2013/ ... eptic.html

Also another reply to his essay:

As we shall see, Mr. Bond makes makes many dubious hasty generalizations about people, such as skeptics, as a group (which is ironic as he himself objects to this practice later on) and even entire scientific fields. He also appears to subscribe to a long list of irrational and pseudoscientific beliefs including anti-psychiatry, anti-evolution, cancer quackery and alternative medicine. Far from being a convincing case against scientific skepticism, it resembles the debating tactic of denialists, together with many of the same rehashed assertions.


Taken from this site you posted: http://debunkingdenialism.com/2013/04/2 ... onvincing/

Hmm it seems his essay was flawed in some ways..
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Re: A Former Skeptic Rejects the Skeptic Movement and Explai

Postby Shen1986 » Tue Sep 24, 2013 8:32 am

Eric D R wrote:Kenny, my point was to show Shen that the blog site where i found the linked article posted at the top of this thread was not really relevant to the article itself. The author of the article did not apparently choose that blog site as the place to publish his article. I was also posting some links where people could read reviews and discussion of the article if they were interested.


It was relevant to the point that the owner of the blog who hosted this essay makes it look that skeptics are evil. The blog in your OP is a typical blog for believers and they post these things to strengthen their believe that skeptics are evil..

BTW: Thanks Eric for posting other web-sites with this..
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Re: A Former Skeptic Rejects the Skeptic Movement and Explai

Postby kennyc » Tue Sep 24, 2013 10:58 am

Yes, it's a bit like the 'peer reviewed journals' that print pseudoscience claiming it is science. Very appropriate and telling for Eric to be posting such tripe.
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Re: A Former Skeptic Rejects the Skeptic Movement and Explai

Postby Eric D R » Wed Sep 25, 2013 5:58 am

kennyc wrote:Yes, it's a bit like the 'peer reviewed journals' that print pseudoscience claiming it is science. Very appropriate and telling for Eric to be posting such tripe.


Do you think I have ulterior motives? Are you connecting the dots? Are you seeing faces in the clouds?

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Re: A Former Skeptic Rejects the Skeptic Movement and Explai

Postby kennyc » Wed Sep 25, 2013 10:50 am

Eric D R wrote:
kennyc wrote:Yes, it's a bit like the 'peer reviewed journals' that print pseudoscience claiming it is science. Very appropriate and telling for Eric to be posting such tripe.


Do you think I have ulterior motives? Are you connecting the dots? Are you seeing faces in the clouds?


Of course you do Eric, you may be fooling yourself or hiding it from yourself, but of course you do. You are looking for 'like minds.' It's not the first time you have posted topics of this nature and they all fit into your mindset of supporting your pseudoscience ideas of souls and dualism and 'things science can't explain.' This is just one more example of it.

:|
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Re: A Former Skeptic Rejects the Skeptic Movement and Explai

Postby Eric D R » Thu Sep 26, 2013 6:02 pm

kennyc wrote:
Eric D R wrote:
kennyc wrote:Yes, it's a bit like the 'peer reviewed journals' that print pseudoscience claiming it is science. Very appropriate and telling for Eric to be posting such tripe.


Do you think I have ulterior motives? Are you connecting the dots? Are you seeing faces in the clouds?


Of course you do Eric, you may be fooling yourself or hiding it from yourself, but of course you do. You are looking for 'like minds.' It's not the first time you have posted topics of this nature and they all fit into your mindset of supporting your pseudoscience ideas of souls and dualism and 'things science can't explain.' This is just one more example of it.

:|

What I have already told you about what I think and believe fits with everything I've written on this forum. If you see it differently, it's only because you want to. So I'll say it again: I would like to find out that I have a soul /consciousness that survives bodily death, and I actively look for information that is suggestive of such a thing, but I can't get myself to believe any of it unless I have proof. Lately, I have been finding the atheist non-soul view to sound more credible, but there have been times where the argument in favor of soul or reincarnation has sounded more credible to me. Never have I taken a leap of faith and decided one way or the other. As for attitude on this forum, I tend to be most adamantly opposed to assumptions and ideological group-think, so that also motivates much of what I post, including the OP and link at the top of this thread. I think the author of the linked article makes some valid points, but I think those points apply only to a sector of the skeptic community and not to everyone.

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Re: A Former Skeptic Rejects the Skeptic Movement and Explai

Postby Shen1986 » Thu Sep 26, 2013 6:28 pm

Eric D R wrote:What I have already told you about what I think and believe fits with everything I've written on this forum. If you see it differently, it's only because you want to. So I'll say it again: I would like to find out that I have a soul /consciousness that survives bodily death, and I actively look for information that is suggestive of such a thing, but I can't get myself to believe any of it unless I have proof. Lately, I have been finding the atheist non-soul view to sound more credible, but there have been times where the argument in favor of soul or reincarnation has sounded more credible to me. Never have I taken a leap of faith and decided one way or the other. As for attitude on this forum, I tend to be most adamantly opposed to assumptions and ideological group-think, so that also motivates much of what I post, including the OP and link at the top of this thread. I think the author of the linked article makes some valid points, but I think those points apply only to a sector of the skeptic community and not to everyone.


Can I have one question? Do you also take arguments from atheists if they are valid? I mean because you maybe can take me that I am close minded(this has to do with my experiences and what I learned so far) because I like you can read oppose the soul with every inch of my being.
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Re: A Former Skeptic Rejects the Skeptic Movement and Explai

Postby octopus1 » Thu Sep 26, 2013 8:07 pm

What an offensive article! Clever enough to frame Skeptics as liable to "attacking other viewpoints as spurious" - Before launching into a spurious attack on the Skeptical viewpoint!

Well, if I agree with the clap-trap in the article (Which I can't!), then I'm no Skeptic. If I condemn it (Which I must!), then I'm an atypically neoliberal aggressive Skeptic - It's a no win situation!

Any parts of the article which may have given me pause for thought, were fatally undermined by the constant acidic snipes against All Skeptics with their sexism and racism, when in fact such objectionable behavior is only ever displayed by Some Skeptics.

From The Article: wrote:And even at their worst, the hucksters of mumbo-jumbo are only minor-league con artists. Their crimes pale next to those of our financial institutions, and all the others who convince the public to throw their life savings at the stock market, take out mortgages they can't afford, buy junk they don't need with money they don't have, and pay for the {!#%@} of bankers and the greed of speculators. But which skeptic is going to debunk these swindlers?


:scratch: Well... That depends more on individual politics than any skeptical feelings. I mean, if ALL Skeptics are to be tarred and feathered alike - Shouldn't we all be supporters of the same political idealogy?

I've criticized, vocally, about this very topic. Not here so much perhaps - But I have. And why isn't the author of the article being more critical? A description of excess is no censure.

Article: wrote:It's true that alternative medicine is not going to cure anyone of serious illness, but it's also generally true that the terminally ill only turn to it when real medicine has given up hope on them. And the value of hope in one's final days is not to be dismissed so easily.


Uhhh....huh....... Because we're constantly bitching about the terminally ill using alternative medicines aren't we.....? It's our group sport.....

Article wrote:One reason you don't hear about positivism often in skeptic circles is that skeptics have no time for philosophy; many skeptics hate and fear it. It's the skeptic Kryptonite. As a fundamental, rigorous, intellectually respectable but defiantly non-scientific discipline, philosophy makes a lot of skeptics feel threatened.


:lol: I've seen philosophical ideas played out here more frequently than any rigorous scientific ideas! And it doesn't bother me, in fact I engage in it as much as the next person! And in lieu of playing some sort of petty "intellectual one-upmanship" it allows everyone to engage on an equal footing.

Hardly the exclusive eltism described in the article...

---------------------------

A throughly unpleasant, inaccurate and bitter dismissal of RATIONAL Skepticism :lol:

And all because the author appears to have been him/herself involved in HARDCORE skepticism in the past.

"I no longer drink Lattes, because Espresso is too strong."
"Uhh... Those aren't exactly the same thing..."
"Yes they are, yes they are, yes they are - Lah-lah-lah-lah!"
*Sigh*

(I must apologize for not dumbing myself down for the masses, as the article complains. Here's a compromise:

ROFL wut a funy way I am talken like!!!11!1!1! K thx bai.)
"On the fence".... Without a cushion....

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Re: A Former Skeptic Rejects the Skeptic Movement and Explai

Postby kennyc » Thu Sep 26, 2013 8:39 pm

octopus1 wrote:What an offensive article! Clever enough to frame Skeptics as liable to "attacking other viewpoints as spurious" - Before launching into a spurious attack on the Skeptical viewpoint!

Well, if I agree with the clap-trap in the article (Which I can't!), then I'm no Skeptic. If I condemn it (Which I must!), then I'm an atypically neoliberal aggressive Skeptic - It's a no win situation!

...



Yes, Octo, when did you stop beating your wife?
:lol:
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Re: A Former Skeptic Rejects the Skeptic Movement and Explai

Postby octopus1 » Thu Sep 26, 2013 8:44 pm

kennyc wrote:
octopus1 wrote:What an offensive article! Clever enough to frame Skeptics as liable to "attacking other viewpoints as spurious" - Before launching into a spurious attack on the Skeptical viewpoint!

Well, if I agree with the clap-trap in the article (Which I can't!), then I'm no Skeptic. If I condemn it (Which I must!), then I'm an atypically neoliberal aggressive Skeptic - It's a no win situation!

...



Yes, Octo, when did you stop beating your wife?
:lol:


When I stopped drinking, realized I wasn't married, and had to buy a new statue of Persephone for the garden - The one I originally had was... strangely damaged.... :lol:
"On the fence".... Without a cushion....

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Re: A Former Skeptic Rejects the Skeptic Movement and Explai

Postby kennyc » Thu Sep 26, 2013 8:46 pm

octopus1 wrote:
kennyc wrote:
octopus1 wrote:What an offensive article! Clever enough to frame Skeptics as liable to "attacking other viewpoints as spurious" - Before launching into a spurious attack on the Skeptical viewpoint!

Well, if I agree with the clap-trap in the article (Which I can't!), then I'm no Skeptic. If I condemn it (Which I must!), then I'm an atypically neoliberal aggressive Skeptic - It's a no win situation!

...



Yes, Octo, when did you stop beating your wife?
:lol:


When I stopped drinking, realized I wasn't married, and had to buy a new statue of Persephone for the garden - The one I originally had was... strangely damaged.... :lol:



Ha! Thought so!

:lol:
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Re: A Former Skeptic Rejects the Skeptic Movement and Explai

Postby octopus1 » Thu Sep 26, 2013 9:22 pm

kennyc wrote:
octopus1 wrote:
kennyc wrote:
octopus1 wrote:What an offensive article! Clever enough to frame Skeptics as liable to "attacking other viewpoints as spurious" - Before launching into a spurious attack on the Skeptical viewpoint!

Well, if I agree with the clap-trap in the article (Which I can't!), then I'm no Skeptic. If I condemn it (Which I must!), then I'm an atypically neoliberal aggressive Skeptic - It's a no win situation!

...



Yes, Octo, when did you stop beating your wife?
:lol:


When I stopped drinking, realized I wasn't married, and had to buy a new statue of Persephone for the garden - The one I originally had was... strangely damaged.... :lol:



Ha! Thought so!

:lol:


Yes, my horticultural statuary is often the thing that springs to people's minds!

"Why didn't you come to the theater with us yesterday, Octopus?
"I had to reglaze a ceramic badger in the orchard."
"Pfft... I knew it!"
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Re: A Former Skeptic Rejects the Skeptic Movement and Explai

Postby Daedalus » Thu Sep 26, 2013 9:24 pm

"Propaganda is a monologue which seeks not a response, but an echo." (W.H. Auden)
"Given time and plenty of paper, philosophers can prove anything." (Robert Heinlein)
"The map is not the territory." (Alfred Korzybski)
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Re: A Former Skeptic Rejects the Skeptic Movement and Explai

Postby octopus1 » Thu Sep 26, 2013 10:15 pm



:lol: :lol:

I wish I was him. Not for the sentiment, but for the handsome fireplace -D
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Re: A Former Skeptic Rejects the Skeptic Movement and Explai

Postby Eric D R » Fri Sep 27, 2013 8:14 am

Shen1986 wrote:
Eric D R wrote:What I have already told you about what I think and believe fits with everything I've written on this forum. If you see it differently, it's only because you want to. So I'll say it again: I would like to find out that I have a soul /consciousness that survives bodily death, and I actively look for information that is suggestive of such a thing, but I can't get myself to believe any of it unless I have proof. Lately, I have been finding the atheist non-soul view to sound more credible, but there have been times where the argument in favor of soul or reincarnation has sounded more credible to me. Never have I taken a leap of faith and decided one way or the other. As for attitude on this forum, I tend to be most adamantly opposed to assumptions and ideological group-think, so that also motivates much of what I post, including the OP and link at the top of this thread. I think the author of the linked article makes some valid points, but I think those points apply only to a sector of the skeptic community and not to everyone.


Can I have one question? Do you also take arguments from atheists if they are valid? I mean because you maybe can take me that I am close minded(this has to do with my experiences and what I learned so far) because I like you can read oppose the soul with every inch of my being.

I'm not so sure i understood everything you wrote there, Shen, but I can say that I do listen to atheist arguments and consider them as I think about these subjects. Usually when I am reading something written in favor of psi, soul survival, reincarnation, etc, I think about the arguments of skeptics and atheists to contradict the arguments of that which I am reading. And, likewise, when I am reading something by an atheist or skeptic, I think of some of the possible arguments that could be used against what they are saying too.

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Re: A Former Skeptic Rejects the Skeptic Movement and Explai

Postby Eric D R » Fri Sep 27, 2013 8:27 am

Any parts of the article which may have given me pause for thought, were fatally undermined by the constant acidic snipes against All Skeptics with their sexism and racism, when in fact such objectionable behavior is only ever displayed by Some Skeptics.


Good points, Octopus. I have definitely come across a few people in skeptic sites and comments sections who would fit many of the author's generalizations, but I'd say most only show some such traits/tendencies if any. I think his rant is only useful as a critique of the behavior and ideology of that limited sector of the skeptic community he's describing.


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