Does God Really Exist?

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Monster
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Re: Does God Really Exist?

Postby Monster » Tue Nov 29, 2016 3:26 pm

daniel valient wrote:I get the feeling that every living atheist is secretly hoping that there is an afterlife and/or spiritual component to life. If we didn't secretly believe there was some point to this existence we would simply kill ourselves now/ cut to the chase...


No. People like being alive. Atheists recognize that there's nothing after death, so dying right now is the exact opposite of what they want. Being alive can be pleasant. Being dead is non-existence.

daniel valient wrote:Without an afterlife, without heaven…there’s literally nothing left to live for. As Leo Tolstoy points out in "Confessions" oblivion renders everything meaningless. and that meaninglessness taints even the most joyful moments of life


The opposite of all of that is true. With Heaven, this life you have now is worthless. Life is finite but the afterlife is infinite. It renders living to be so short as to be insignificant and negligible. An infinite existence is the real reality, not living.

Regarding oblivion, it renders life so much more precious. Life is finite and what we do now needs to be cherished. What we do now isn't irrelevant. Our descendants, friends, and acquaintances will take a part of us with them to the future (figuratively, of course).

Also, if some other creature (your god you worship) has decided on how your life is supposed to be, does your life really have a purpose? It renders all of the decisions you have made in this life to be meaningless. You aren't making them. What are you other than a glorified robot.

...this is why evolution/ natural selection actually favors religion and religious people...
Religious people will naturally have more kids than atheists because life makes more sense to them.

I don't follow.
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Re: Does God Really Exist?

Postby Matthew Ellard » Tue Nov 29, 2016 9:44 pm

daniel valient wrote:I get the feeling that every living atheist is secretly hoping that there is an afterlife and/or spiritual component to life. If we didn't secretly believe there was some point to this existence we would simply kill ourselves now/ cut to the chase...
Totally incorrect. If there was some non-scientific, magical, after life, then the entire foundations of science in our actual world would come into dispute. Therefore rather than being in command of science, as we are today, we would revert back to religious chaos with no stable scientific framework.

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Re: Does God Really Exist?

Postby Matthew Ellard » Tue Nov 29, 2016 9:51 pm

daniel valient wrote:.this is why evolution/ natural selection actually favors religion and religious people...
Religious people will naturally have more kids than atheists because life makes more sense to them.


Evolution does not favour religious people or scientific people. You do not seem to know what evolution is. Evolution is when random genes (mutations) enter the gene pool. If those new attributes are slightly more advantageous to a species, within its environment, those new mutations increase in frequency in that species. That's how species evolve.

However the major hole in your argument is that more evolved species, like humans, have evolved to have less children due to intelligence, and nothing to do with religion.

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Re: Does God Really Exist?

Postby Matthew Ellard » Tue Nov 29, 2016 9:53 pm

daniel valient wrote: If we didn't secretly believe there was some point to this existence we would simply kill ourselves now/ cut to the chase...


I think we all need to take care here that this is not a sock-puppett of MATMVS7 who also made this claim.

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Re: Does God Really Exist?

Postby gorgeous » Tue Nov 29, 2016 10:48 pm

then the entire foundations of science in our actual world would come into dispute.---exactly...and so it is...----"If quantum mechanics hasn't profoundly shocked you, you haven't understood it yet. ... Everything we call real is made of things that cannot be regarded as real."---Bohr
Science Fundamentalism...is exactly what happens when there’s a significant, perceived ideological threat to one’s traditions and identity.

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Re: Does God Really Exist?

Postby Monster » Tue Nov 29, 2016 10:58 pm

Matthew Ellard wrote:
daniel valient wrote: If we didn't secretly believe there was some point to this existence we would simply kill ourselves now/ cut to the chase...


I think we all need to take care here that this is not a sock-puppett of MATMVS7 who also made this claim.

Many people have made the same statement. It's not just MATMVS7. Callers to The Atheist Experience have made that statement.
Listening twice as much as you speak is a sign of wisdom.

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Re: Does God Really Exist?

Postby OlegTheBatty » Wed Nov 30, 2016 10:20 pm

daniel valient wrote:I get the feeling that every living atheist is secretly hoping that there is an afterlife and/or spiritual component to life. If we didn't secretly believe there was some point to this existence we would simply kill ourselves now/ cut to the chase...


I create my own point to this existence. Why should I wait for some imaginary skymonster to do it for me?

My purpose in life is to train cats to worship me. I think it's nip and tuck which is first - that, or my death by proton decay.
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Re: Does God Really Exist?

Postby Matthew Ellard » Wed Nov 30, 2016 10:45 pm

gorgeous wrote:then the entire foundations of science in our actual world would come into dispute.---exactly
Well isn't is good news then that no one has ever presented one iota of evidence that there is a magical afterlife.

Once again, real science conquers magical religious bull-shit.
:D

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Re: Does God Really Exist?

Postby TJrandom » Thu Dec 01, 2016 10:06 am

Matthew Ellard wrote:
daniel valient wrote: If we didn't secretly believe there was some point to this existence we would simply kill ourselves now/ cut to the chase...


I think we all need to take care here that this is not a sock-puppett of MATMVS7 who also made this claim.


Years ago I saw a video of a whiney brat lament the same at a summer church camp. They teach this {!#%@}.

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Re: Does God Really Exist?

Postby nmblum88 » Thu Dec 01, 2016 5:45 pm

TJrandom wrote:
Matthew Ellard wrote:
daniel valient wrote: If we didn't secretly believe there was some point to this existence we would simply kill ourselves now/ cut to the chase...


I think we all need to take care here that this is not a sock-puppett of MATMVS7 who also made this claim.


Years ago I saw a video of a whiney brat lament the same at a summer church camp. They teach this {!#%@}.



Yeah... religious {!#%@} does abound.
To the parapets!!
Because as long as any potential "sock puppet" of the dreaded MATMVS7 is deflected from his suicidal-religionist course this Forum and the doughty Skeptics who are its mainstay and its core will remain a haven for rationalist thought.
More or less.

NMB
P.S. I too saw the video of the "whiney brat lament," but who the {!#%@} is MATMVS7?
And is he/she/it really a threat to the Enlightenment?
More, or as much say... as Angel?
And if so, why is my sewing circle unaware of her/him/it?
NMB

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Re: Does God Really Exist?

Postby Gord » Fri Dec 02, 2016 12:34 am

nmblum88 wrote:And is he/she/it really a threat to the Enlightenment?

What Enlightenment? MATMVS7 may be a threat to himself. Or a troll who wants people to believe he is a threat to himself. Or a Russian spy. But whatever else MATMVS7 is, MATMVS7 is a deceptive manipulator.

So, if you're going to interact with someone you think may be MATMVS7, care is recommended.
"Knowledge grows through infinite timelessness" -- the random fictional Deepak Chopra quote site
"You are also taking my words out of context." -- Justin
"Nullius in verba" -- The Royal Society ["take nobody's word for it"]
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Re: Does God Really Exist?

Postby Angel » Fri Dec 02, 2016 4:20 am

nmblum88 wrote:
TJrandom wrote:
Matthew Ellard wrote:
daniel valient wrote: If we didn't secretly believe there was some point to this existence we would simply kill ourselves now/ cut to the chase...


I think we all need to take care here that this is not a sock-puppett of MATMVS7 who also made this claim.


Years ago I saw a video of a whiney brat lament the same at a summer church camp. They teach this {!#%@}.



Yeah... religious {!#%@} does abound.
To the parapets!!
Because as long as any potential "sock puppet" of the dreaded MATMVS7 is deflected from his suicidal-religionist course this Forum and the doughty Skeptics who are its mainstay and its core will remain a haven for rationalist thought.
More or less.

NMB
P.S. I too saw the video of the "whiney brat lament," but who the {!#%@} is MATMVS7?
And is he/she/it really a threat to the Enlightenment?
More, or as much say... as Angel?
And if so, why is my sewing circle unaware of her/him/it?
NMB


Sorry sweety ~ I am neither a threat nor
a promise as they are both actions made
by somebody not willing to act.
To be or not to be?
To believe or
Not to believe?
To be live or
Not to be live?
To exist or
Not to exist?
What was the question?


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