The Deep State

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The Deep State

Postby Tom Palven » Tue Oct 25, 2016 5:05 am

https://www.lewrockwell.com/2016/10/joh ... lent-coup/

Whitehead doesn't seem to provide any solutions to the problem of the Deep State.

If it actually exists to the extent he claims it would seem that only US bankruptcy can free North America and the rest of the world from it's clutches.
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Re: The Deep State

Postby TJrandom » Tue Oct 25, 2016 6:43 am

I was sorely tempted to quit reading about half way thru, but I noticed the scroll bar was at mid-screen, thus I soldiered on. And I am glad I did – as otherwise I would have missed that the whole point of the piece, was to plug for a book. Whew! Or maybe it was intended for release come April first.

Just another silly conspiracy folks, nothing to see here, lets move along.

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Re: The Deep State

Postby Tom Palven » Tue Oct 25, 2016 4:26 pm

TJrandom wrote:I was sorely tempted to quit reading about half way thru, but I noticed the scroll bar was at mid-screen, thus I soldiered on. And I am glad I did – as otherwise I would have missed that the whole point of the piece, was to plug for a book. Whew! Or maybe it was intended for release come April first.

Just another silly conspiracy folks, nothing to see here, lets move along.


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Re: The Deep State

Postby Gawdzilla Sama » Tue Oct 25, 2016 4:29 pm

I have you on ignore. Sorry.
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Re: The Deep State

Postby Tom Palven » Tue Oct 25, 2016 7:23 pm

Gawdzilla Sama wrote:I have you on ignore. Sorry.


I missed the above comment.
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Re: The Deep State

Postby Gawdzilla Sama » Tue Oct 25, 2016 8:44 pm

Tom Palven wrote:
Gawdzilla Sama wrote:I have you on ignore. Sorry.


I missed the above comment.

Who said that?
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Re: The Deep State

Postby TJrandom » Tue Oct 25, 2016 10:24 pm

I have four members on ignore, and three of them no longer post here.

But back on the DS (deep {!#%@}) that the article bemoans, those who are described as being part of the DS (deep state) are people and organizations who are just doing their jobs, and would continue to do them even if Washington were wiped out. That this is somehow unconstitutional, is pure BS.

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Re: The Deep State

Postby Paul Anthony » Wed Oct 26, 2016 1:31 am

TJrandom wrote:I have four members on ignore, and three of them no longer post here.

But back on the DS (deep {!#%@}) that the article bemoans, those who are described as being part of the DS (deep state) are people and organizations who are just doing their jobs, and would continue to do them even if Washington were wiped out. That this is somehow unconstitutional, is pure BS.


Have you actually read the Constitution? Or, do you consider it outdated and irrelevant?

Sure, this guy is trying to sell a book, but he's saying something a whole lot of other people are saying. You need to get out more often.
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Re: The Deep State

Postby TJrandom » Wed Oct 26, 2016 1:36 am

Yes, I did - once, a long time ago, read the constitution. And, no, I do not consider it irrelevant. A bit outdated, IMO, but then that also depends upon who is interpreting what people so long ago might think about today`s problems. The major problem with his article, isn`t that he is trying to sell a book - but rather simply that he makes the claim that all is against the constitution, without explaining why he thinks so. If he would connect the dots then maybe...

And if so many people believe as he does, then they are certainly free to get their elected officials to change things. Why it might even eventually approach what we have here in Japan - national everything and tons of public servants doing what he claims is being done outside of the constitution. I am sure he would like a doubling, or even a tripling of the number of national public servants. :)

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Re: The Deep State

Postby Tom Palven » Wed Oct 26, 2016 6:48 am

TJrandom wrote:Yes, I did - once, a long time ago, read the constitution. And, no, I do not consider it irrelevant. A bit outdated, IMO, but then that also depends upon who is interpreting what people so long ago might think about today`s problems. The major problem with his article, isn`t that he is trying to sell a book - but rather simply that he makes the claim that all is against the constitution, without explaining why he thinks so. If he would connect the dots then maybe...

And if so many people believe as he does, then they are certainly free to get their elected officials to change things. Why it might even eventually approach what we have here in Japan - national everything and tons of public servants doing what he claims is being done outside of the constitution. I am sure he would like a doubling, or even a tripling of the number of national public servants. :)


I don't think I've read the whole Constitution, but I've read the Bill of Rights, the first ten amendments which were ratified along with the original Constitution, and which, like the Wicked Witch of the West aren't "merely nearly dead, but clearly most sincerely dead."

The Bill of Rights

Amendment 1
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.

Amendment 2
A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.

Amendment 3
No soldier shall, in time of peace be quartered in any house, without the consent of the owner, nor in time of war, but in a manner to be prescribed by law.

Amendment 4
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

Amendment 5
No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a grand jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the militia, when in actual service in time of war or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offense to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.

Amendment 6
In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury of the state and district wherein the crime shall have been committed, which district shall have been previously ascertained by law, and to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against him; to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and to have the assistance of counsel for his defense.

Amendment 7
In suits at common law, where the value in controversy shall exceed twenty dollars, the right of trial by jury shall be preserved, and no fact tried by a jury, shall be otherwise reexamined in any court of the United States, than according to the rules of the common law.

Amendment 8
Excessive bail shall not be required, nor excessive fines imposed, nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted.

Amendment 9
The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.

Amendment 10
The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the states, are reserved to the states respectively, or to the people.

Violations of the Bill of Rights didn't just begin yesterday.  For example, Emma Goldman was deported to Russia for speaking out against US involvement in WW I, and socialist Presidential candidate Eugene Debs was imprisoned for the same offense, a clear violation of his freedom of speech.
http://www.prosebeforehos.com/word-of-t ... to-prison/

However, the recent murdering of US citizens with drone strikes, which the US Supreme Court has upheld as legal, are seemingly clear violations of the First, Fourth, Fifth, Ninth, and Tenth Amendments. 
http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/USA-Update ... ikes-video
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Re: The Deep State

Postby TJrandom » Wed Oct 26, 2016 7:11 am

Tom Palven wrote: ... murdering of US citizens with drone strikes, which the US Supreme Court has upheld as legal, ...


Do you have a supreme court case number / or other official reference for this? I believe that an attempt to take this to the Supreme Court was dismissed by a federal judge - thus the Supreme Court NOT upholding it as legal.

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Re: The Deep State

Postby Tom Palven » Wed Oct 26, 2016 7:19 am

TJrandom wrote:
Tom Palven wrote: ... murdering of US citizens with drone strikes, which the US Supreme Court has upheld as legal, ...


Do you have a supreme court case number / or other official reference for this? I believe that an attempt to take this to the Supreme Court was dismissed by a federal judge - thus the Supreme Court NOT upholding it as legal.



By refusing to hear the case the SC has upheld the legality of the Federal Court decision. Isn't that the way it works?
http://www.thenewamerican.com/usnews/co ... titutional
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Re: The Deep State

Postby TJrandom » Wed Oct 26, 2016 7:24 am

Tom Palven wrote:
TJrandom wrote:
Tom Palven wrote: ... murdering of US citizens with drone strikes, which the US Supreme Court has upheld as legal, ...


Do you have a supreme court case number / or other official reference for this? I believe that an attempt to take this to the Supreme Court was dismissed by a federal judge - thus the Supreme Court NOT upholding it as legal.



By refusing to hear the case the SC has upheld the legality of the Federal Court decision. Isn't that the way it works?
http://www.thenewamerican.com/usnews/co ... titutional


The SC did not refuse to hear the case. The case never made it to the SC. So NO, that isn`t the way it works, and so NO - the SC did not uphold the use of drones to kill Americans (in violation of the constitution/amendments).

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Re: The Deep State

Postby Tom Palven » Wed Oct 26, 2016 8:11 am

TJrandom wrote:
Tom Palven wrote:
TJrandom wrote:
Tom Palven wrote: ... murdering of US citizens with drone strikes, which the US Supreme Court has upheld as legal, ...


Do you have a supreme court case number / or other official reference for this? I believe that an attempt to take this to the Supreme Court was dismissed by a federal judge - thus the Supreme Court NOT upholding it as legal.



By refusing to hear the case the SC has upheld the legality of the Federal Court decision. Isn't that the way it works?
http://www.thenewamerican.com/usnews/co ... titutional


The SC did not refuse to hear the case. The case never made it to the SC. So NO, that isn`t the way it works, and so NO - the SC did not uphold the use of drones to kill Americans (in violation of the constitution/amendments).


However, it is now legal to drone US citizens by executive order, without the due process of the 5th Amendment.

Is that much correct?
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Re: The Deep State

Postby TJrandom » Wed Oct 26, 2016 8:57 am

Tom Palven wrote:
TJrandom wrote:
Tom Palven wrote:
TJrandom wrote:
Tom Palven wrote: ... murdering of US citizens with drone strikes, which the US Supreme Court has upheld as legal, ...


Do you have a supreme court case number / or other official reference for this? I believe that an attempt to take this to the Supreme Court was dismissed by a federal judge - thus the Supreme Court NOT upholding it as legal.



By refusing to hear the case the SC has upheld the legality of the Federal Court decision. Isn't that the way it works?
http://www.thenewamerican.com/usnews/co ... titutional


The SC did not refuse to hear the case. The case never made it to the SC. So NO, that isn`t the way it works, and so NO - the SC did not uphold the use of drones to kill Americans (in violation of the constitution/amendments).


However, it is now legal to drone US citizens by executive order, without the due process of the 5th Amendment.

Is that much correct?


I am not a lawyer, so honestly cannot say if it is legal or not, or if the 5th amendment applies or doesn`t. It is (or has been) done quite rarely. Maybe a future court case will clarify it.

Not trying to put a partisan tilt on this (honest), but it seems to me that waterboarding is similar - in that it too can lead to death.

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Re: The Deep State

Postby Tom Palven » Wed Oct 26, 2016 12:46 pm

TJrandom wrote:
Tom Palven wrote:
TJrandom wrote:
Tom Palven wrote:
TJrandom wrote:
Tom Palven wrote: ... murdering of US citizens with drone strikes, which the US Supreme Court has upheld as legal, ...


Do you have a supreme court case number / or other official reference for this? I believe that an attempt to take this to the Supreme Court was dismissed by a federal judge - thus the Supreme Court NOT upholding it as legal.



By refusing to hear the case the SC has upheld the legality of the Federal Court decision. Isn't that the way it works?
http://www.thenewamerican.com/usnews/co ... titutional


The SC did not refuse to hear the case. The case never made it to the SC. So NO, that isn`t the way it works, and so NO - the SC did not uphold the use of drones to kill Americans (in violation of the constitution/amendments).


However, it is now legal to drone US citizens by executive order, without the due process of the 5th Amendment.

Is that much correct?


I am not a lawyer, so honestly cannot say if it is legal or not...


Well, the Federal court judges (lawyers) said it is legal.
http://www.thenewamerican.com/usnews/co ... titutional

ACLU lawyers say it is not, but as it stands now their opinions are as worthless as yours or mine.
If one can be taught to believe absurdities, one can commit atrocities. --Voltaire

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Re: The Deep State

Postby Tom Palven » Fri Nov 04, 2016 10:46 pm

This powerful documentary by John Pilger is long and probably requires the assistance of a pitcher of ale or a bottle of wine, but imho it is spot-on regarding the concentration of corporate power in journalism and "the battle for history."
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UcD81WHkCsE
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Re: The Deep State

Postby Tom Palven » Fri Nov 25, 2016 7:30 am

Kennedy murder documents that were to be released IN 2013, 50 years later, are now scheduled to released this coming year.

Perhaps the Trump administration will actually help make this happen:
http://jfkfiles.blogspot.com/2012/06/na ... crets.html
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Re: The Deep State

Postby TJrandom » Fri Nov 25, 2016 7:49 am

Tom Palven wrote:Kennedy murder documents that were to be released IN 2013, 50 years later, are now scheduled to released this coming year.

Perhaps the Trump administration will actually help make this happen:
http://jfkfiles.blogspot.com/2012/06/na ... crets.html


Did Trump ever say that he wouldn`t? If he did, then maybe there is a chance that he will. But if he said he will, then tough luck.

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Re: The Deep State

Postby Tom Palven » Mon Dec 12, 2016 6:42 pm

The electoral college is supposed to certify election results Dec. 19, so we may find out more about the Deep State within a week:
http://original.antiwar.com/justin/2016 ... -cia-coup/
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Re: The Deep State

Postby TJrandom » Mon Dec 12, 2016 7:26 pm

Ah, yes – just as the deep state FBI failed to follow long standing policy to not comment on undergoing investigations within 60 days of an election… now we have the deep state CIA creating out of thin air the suspicion that Trump was helped by Russian hackers. It just couldn`t be true, could it? Naw, Russian hackers are friends of the US. They would never do anything to hurt the US. :roll:

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Re: The Deep State

Postby Tom Palven » Tue Dec 13, 2016 8:45 am

TJrandom wrote:Ah, yes – just as the deep state FBI failed to follow long standing policy to not comment on undergoing investigations within 60 days of an election… now we have the deep state CIA creating out of thin air the suspicion that Trump was helped by Russian hackers. It just couldn`t be true, could it? Naw, Russian hackers are friends of the US. They would never do anything to hurt the US. :roll:


Not to worry.

Sen. Mitch McConnell is on top of the situation:
http://news.antiwar.com/2016/12/12/cong ... erference/
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Re: The Deep State

Postby TJrandom » Tue Dec 13, 2016 8:57 am

Tom Palven wrote:
TJrandom wrote:Ah, yes – just as the deep state FBI failed to follow long standing policy to not comment on undergoing investigations within 60 days of an election… now we have the deep state CIA creating out of thin air the suspicion that Trump was helped by Russian hackers. It just couldn`t be true, could it? Naw, Russian hackers are friends of the US. They would never do anything to hurt the US. :roll:


Not to worry.

Sen. Mitch McConnell is on top of the situation:
http://news.antiwar.com/2016/12/12/cong ... erference/


Oh, I see. Sorry. Just another fake news site.

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Re: The Deep State

Postby Tom Palven » Tue Dec 13, 2016 5:33 pm

TJrandom wrote:
Tom Palven wrote:
TJrandom wrote:Ah, yes – just as the deep state FBI failed to follow long standing policy to not comment on undergoing investigations within 60 days of an election… now we have the deep state CIA creating out of thin air the suspicion that Trump was helped by Russian hackers. It just couldn`t be true, could it? Naw, Russian hackers are friends of the US. They would never do anything to hurt the US. :roll:


Not to worry.

Sen. Mitch McConnell is on top of the situation:
http://news.antiwar.com/2016/12/12/cong ... erference/


Oh, I see. Sorry. Just another fake news site.


Anti-War.com seems a lot more trustworthy than the self-promoting press releases from "undisclosed sources" at the Pentagon and State Dept. that the MSM publishes as news.
If one can be taught to believe absurdities, one can commit atrocities. --Voltaire

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Re: The Deep State

Postby TJrandom » Tue Dec 13, 2016 9:18 pm

Tom Palven wrote:
TJrandom wrote:
Tom Palven wrote:
TJrandom wrote:Ah, yes – just as the deep state FBI failed to follow long standing policy to not comment on undergoing investigations within 60 days of an election… now we have the deep state CIA creating out of thin air the suspicion that Trump was helped by Russian hackers. It just couldn`t be true, could it? Naw, Russian hackers are friends of the US. They would never do anything to hurt the US. :roll:


Not to worry.

Sen. Mitch McConnell is on top of the situation:
http://news.antiwar.com/2016/12/12/cong ... erference/


Oh, I see. Sorry. Just another fake news site.


Anti-War.com seems a lot more trustworthy than the self-promoting press releases from "undisclosed sources" at the Pentagon and State Dept. that the MSM publishes as news.


Ah, but they did write…

Claims Russia was plotting to hack the election to install President-elect Donald Trump in power were the centerpiece of Hillary Clinton’s campaign, …


Which is no way near accurate. Hillary`s campaign was centered on being fit for, and prepared for, being president. Which as the recent circus that is the Trump presidency run-up shows, was spot on.

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Re: The Deep State

Postby Tom Palven » Wed Dec 14, 2016 1:55 am

TJrandom wrote: Hillary`s campaign was centered on being fit for, and prepared for, being president.


Sucking up to King Salman made Hillary fit to be Secretary of State for extraordinarily repressive, misogynistic, Saudi Arabia.
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Re: The Deep State

Postby TJrandom » Wed Dec 14, 2016 9:04 am

Tom Palven wrote:
TJrandom wrote: Hillary`s campaign was centered on being fit for, and prepared for, being president.


Sucking up to King Salman made Hillary fit to be Secretary of State for extraordinarily repressive, misogynistic, Saudi Arabia.


Hillary was never Secretary of State for Saudi Arabia. You knew that, right? :roll:

And... antiwar.com is a fake news site - agreed?

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Re: The Deep State

Postby Tom Palven » Wed Dec 14, 2016 9:58 am

Why the Deep State hate's Rex Tillerson:

http://original.antiwar.com/justin/2016 ... tillerson/
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Re: The Deep State

Postby Flash » Thu Dec 15, 2016 1:24 am

JTrandom wrote:
Hillary was never Secretary of State for Saudi Arabia. You knew that, right? :roll:

Tom didn't say that. He said that Hillary's (and Obama's) appeasement of that cheap cross dresser Salman went beyond any reasonable diplomatic behavior and to the point where she could've gotten a revered Saudi goat turd medal from the man (well, actually Tom almost said this) and the Saudi government position. And the Saudi government position for a woman is...well, that's another story.

And... antiwar.com is a fake news site - agreed?

No! have you read the site? Obviously not.
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Re: The Deep State

Postby TJrandom » Thu Dec 15, 2016 3:43 am

Flash wrote:JTrandom wrote:
Hillary was never Secretary of State for Saudi Arabia. You knew that, right? :roll:

Tom didn't say that. He said that Hillary's (and Obama's) appeasement of that cheap cross dresser Salman went beyond any reasonable diplomatic behavior and to the point where she could've gotten a revered Saudi goat turd medal from the man (well, actually Tom almost said this) and the Saudi government position. And the Saudi government position for a woman is...well, that's another story.

And... antiwar.com is a fake news site - agreed?

No! have you read the site? Obviously not.


Tom wrote…

Sucking up to King Salman made Hillary fit to be Secretary of State for extraordinarily repressive, misogynistic, Saudi Arabia.


Tom did not write the following. You wrote this. And NO, they are no where near the same. Who ya trying to fool? No wonder you are having a hard time with this. Please do try to keep up. :roll:

Hillary's (and Obama's) appeasement of that cheap cross dresser Salman went beyond any reasonable diplomatic behavior and to the point where she could've gotten a revered Saudi goat turd medal from the man (well, actually Tom almost said this) and the Saudi government position.


But you are spot on me not having read the antiwar.fake news.com site. I normally give up when I find blatent lies being presented as `truthy`. But I did try to read it before being overcome with nausia. :(

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Re: The Deep State

Postby TJrandom » Thu Dec 15, 2016 3:48 am

Tom Palven wrote:Why the Deep State hate's Rex Tillerson:

http://original.antiwar.com/justin/2016 ... tillerson/


By the way, I did read that article. Interesting.

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Re: The Deep State

Postby Tom Palven » Thu Dec 15, 2016 1:49 pm

Deep State components and comments on recent developments:
http://thecrux.com/is-the-deep-state-at ... th-itself/
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Re: The Deep State

Postby Tom Palven » Tue Dec 20, 2016 8:18 am

Gorbachev said that the US Military-Industrial-Congressional Complex requires enemies and that he wanted to deprive it of Russia as one of them, but the Deep State insists that Russia remains of the current naughty list with Iran, Syria, North Korea, and China despite Trump's lack of hostility:
http://www.fff.org/2016/12/15/russia-ol ... ial-enemy/
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Re: The Deep State

Postby TJrandom » Tue Dec 20, 2016 8:55 am

Yup. Trump switched to hating women, immigrants, Muslims, scientists, Chinese, the poor, …. It`ll take a while for industry and Americans in general to catch up. ;)

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Re: The Deep State

Postby Flash » Thu Dec 22, 2016 4:57 am

Trump also hates cats, dogs, koala bears and Italians. Why Italians? Well, he says he got a lousy pizza Putanesca there once but more objective source can't help but notice that he had to take the antibiotic soon after. :mrgreen:
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Re: The Deep State

Postby Tom Palven » Mon Feb 06, 2017 3:04 pm

John Whitehead thinks that the State can be saved.
http://www.fff.org/explore-freedom/arti ... ute-force/

I just hope that he's wrong.
If one can be taught to believe absurdities, one can commit atrocities. --Voltaire

Tom Palven
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Re: The Deep State

Postby Tom Palven » Wed Feb 08, 2017 11:55 am

As Commander-in-Chief will President Trump be allowed to promote détente with Russia as he has proposed?

If so, when?
http://news.antiwar.com/2017/02/07/nato ... a-buildup/
If one can be taught to believe absurdities, one can commit atrocities. --Voltaire

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ElectricMonk
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Re: The Deep State

Postby ElectricMonk » Wed Feb 08, 2017 1:44 pm

Illuminati says no.
I've come up with a set of rules that describe our reactions to technologies:
Spoiler:
1. Anything that is in the world when you’re born is normal and ordinary and is just a natural part of the way the world works.
2. Anything that's invented between when you’re fifteen and thirty-five is new and exciting and revolutionary and you can probably get a career in it.
3. Anything invented after you're thirty-five is against the natural order of things.
- Douglas Adams

Tom Palven
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Re: The Deep State

Postby Tom Palven » Sat Feb 11, 2017 1:44 pm

Meet the New Deep State, Same as the Old Deep State:
https://www.lewrockwell.com/2017/02/joa ... rump-plan/
If one can be taught to believe absurdities, one can commit atrocities. --Voltaire

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Gawdzilla Sama
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Re: The Deep State

Postby Gawdzilla Sama » Sat Feb 11, 2017 1:50 pm

Goes around/Comes around Effect. People having been saving the US is doomed since 1777.
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The Myths of Pearl Harbor. Demythologizing the attack.
Hyperwar. Hypertext history of the Second World War.
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