Shakespeare never existed

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Shakespeare never existed

Postby gorgeous » Sat Apr 23, 2016 3:41 pm

taken from----wiki--------Shakespeare was born, brought up, and buried in Stratford-upon-Avon, where he maintained a household throughout the duration of his career in London. A market town of around 1,500 residents about 100 miles (160 km) north-west of London, Stratford was a centre for the slaughter, marketing, and distribution of sheep, as well as for hide tanning and wool trading. Anti-Stratfordians often portray the town as a cultural backwater lacking the environment necessary to nurture a genius and depict Shakespeare as ignorant and illiterate.[35]

Shakespeare's father, John Shakespeare, was a glover and town official. He married Mary Arden, one of the Ardens of Warwickshire, a family of the local gentry. Both signed their names with a mark, and no other examples of their writing are extant.[36] This is often used as an indication that Shakespeare was brought up in an illiterate household. There is also no evidence that Shakespeare's two daughters were literate, save for two signatures by Susanna that appear to be "drawn" instead of written with a practised hand. His other daughter, Judith, signed a legal document with a mark.
------------------------Anti-Stratfordians also question how Shakespeare, with no record of the education and cultured background displayed in the works bearing his name, could have acquired the extensive vocabulary found in the plays and poems. The author's vocabulary is calculated to be between 17,500 and 29,000 words.[44][b] No letters or signed manuscripts written by Shakespeare survive. The appearance of Shakespeare's six surviving authenticated[45] signatures, which they characterise as "an illiterate scrawl", is interpreted as indicating that he was illiterate or barely literate.[46] All are written in secretary hand, a style of handwriting common to the era,[47] particularly in play writing,[48] and three of them utilize breviographs to abbreviate the surname.--------------------In his surviving signatures William Shakespeare did not spell his name as it appears on most Shakespeare title pages. His surname was spelled inconsistently in both literary and non-literary documents, with the most variation observed in those that were written by hand.[50] This is taken as evidence that he was not the same person who wrote the works, and that the name was used as a pseudonym for the true author.[51]

Shakespeare's surname was hyphenated as "Shake-speare" or "Shak-spear" on the title pages of 15 of the 48 individual quarto (or Q) editions of Shakespeare's plays (16 were published with the author unnamed) and in two of the five editions of poetry, published before the First Folio. Of those 15 title pages with Shakespeare's name hyphenated, 13 are on the title pages of just three plays, Richard II (Q2 1598, Q3 1598, Q4 1608, and Q5 1615), Richard III (Q2 1598, Q3 1602, Q4 1605, Q5 1612, and Q6 1622), and Henry IV, Part 1 (Q2 1599, Q3 1604, Q4 1608, and Q5 1613).[52] The hyphen is also present in one cast list and in six literary allusions published between 1594 and 1623. This hyphen use is construed to indicate a pseudonym by most anti-Stratfordians,[53] who argue that fictional descriptive names (such as "Master Shoe-tie" and "Sir Luckless Woo-all") were often hyphenated in plays, and pseudonyms such as "Tom Tell-truth" were also sometimes hyphenated.
------------------Shakespeare died on 23 April 1616 in Stratford, leaving a signed will to direct the disposal of his large estate. The language of the will is mundane and unpoetic and makes no mention of personal papers, books, poems, or the 18 plays that remained unpublished at the time of his death. Its only theatrical reference—monetary gifts to fellow actors to buy mourning rings—was interlined after the will had been written, casting suspicion on the authenticity of the bequests.-----------------------Oxfordians think that the phrase "our ever-living Poet" (an epithet that commonly eulogised a deceased poet as having attained immortal literary fame), included in the dedication to Shakespeare's sonnets that were published in 1609, was a signal that the true poet had died by then. Oxford had died in 1604, five years earlier.[63]
Last edited by gorgeous on Sat Apr 23, 2016 6:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Shakespeare never existed

Postby gorgeous » Sat Apr 23, 2016 3:41 pm

taken from wiki---Mark Twain, one of the most famous doubters, author of the essay “Is Shakespeare Dead?” wrote: “So far as anybody actually knows and can prove, Shakespeare of Stratford-on-Avon never wrote a play in his life.”

“I am ‘sort of’ haunted by the conviction,” wrote novelist Henry James, “that the divine William is the biggest and most successful fraud ever practiced on a patient world.”

Sigmund Freud, whose own work is often equated with Shakespeare’s in its cultural impact and who drew heavily on Hamlet for some of his own theories, also believed that someone other than the actor from Stratford wrote the plays. “It is undeniably painful to all of us,” he said, “that even now we do not know who was the author of the Comedies, Tragedies and Sonnets of Shakespeare.”

“I can hardly think it was the Stratford boy,” wrote Charlie Chaplin of the plays. “Whoever wrote them had an aristocratic attitude.”

Such famous doubters have been joined by everyone from Orson Welles to Helen Keller.

Even Malcolm X became “intrigued over the Shakespearean dilemma,” as he referred to it in his Autobiography. “If Shakespeare existed, he was then the top poet around,” the modern revolutionary leader wondered, asking why he didn’t work on the King James Bible. “If he existed, why didn’t King James use him?”
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Re: Shakespeare never existed

Postby gorgeous » Sat Apr 23, 2016 3:44 pm

doubters site---famous doubters--------- Ralph Waldo Emerson: “Other admirable men have led lives in some sort of keeping with their thought; but this man, in wide contrast... that he was a jovial actor and manager, I cannot marry this fact to his verse."



Henry James: “The divine William is the biggest and most successful fraud ever practiced on a patient world."



Walt Whitman: “Conceived out of the fullest heat and pulse of European feudalism, personifying in unparalleled ways the medieval aristocracy, its towering spirit of ruthless and gigantic caste, its own peculiar air and arrogance. No mere imitation. One of the wolfish earls so plenteous in the plays themselves, or some born descendent and knower, might seem to be the true author of those amazing works… I am firm against Shaxpere. I mean the Avon man… It is my final belief that the Shakespearean plays were written by another hand than Shaxpere’s. … The Shaxpere case is about closed.”



Mark Twain: “Shaxpere had no prominence while he lived, and none until he had been dead two or three generations. The Plays enjoyed high fame from the beginning; and if he wrote them, it seems a pity the world did not find it out. He ought to have explained that he was the author, and not merely a nom de plume for another man to hide behind. Shall I set down the rest of the Conjectures which constitute the great Biography of William Shake-speare? It would strain the Unabridged dictionary to hold them. He is a Brontosaur: nine bones and six-hundred barrels of plaster of paris… I only believed Bacon wrote Shake-speare, whereas I knew Shaxpere didn't."



Sir Derek Jacobi: "Where did this Shakespeare come from? Where did all that knowledge and eloquence and truth come from?… I am highly suspicious of that gentleman from Stratford on Avon… our playwright wasn't that fellow."



Orson Welles: “I think Oxford wrote Shake-speare. If you don't agree, there are some awfully funny coincidences to explain away."



Charles Chaplin: “In the works of the greatest geniuses, humble beginnings will reveal themselves somewhere, but one cannot trace the slightest sign of them in Shake-speare… Whoever wrote them had an aristocratic attitude."


U.S. Supreme Court Justice Harry A. Blackmun: “If I had to cast my vote [today], it would be for the Oxfordians.”



U.S. Supreme Court Justice Lewis F. Powell, Jr.: “I never thought that the man of Stratford-on-Avon wrote the plays of Shake-speare. I know of no admissible evidence that he ever left England or was educated in the normal sense of the term. One must wonder, for example, how he could have written The Merchant of Venice."



U.S. Supreme Court Justice John Paul Stevens: "Even though there is no Santa Claus, it's still a wonderful myth."



Sir John Gielgud


Kenneth Branagh


Michael York


Jeremy Irons


Mark Rylance


Leslie Howard


Tyrone Guthrie


Keanu Reeves


Kristin Linklater


Clifton Fadiman


Charles Dickens


William James


Sigmund Freud


John Galsworthy


U.S. Supreme Court Justice Antonin Scalia


U.S. Supreme Court Justice Sandra Day O’Connor
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Re: Shakespeare never existed

Postby gorgeous » Sat Apr 23, 2016 3:51 pm

doubters site---Charlie Chapman-----“In the work of the greatest geniuses, humble beginnings will reveal themselves somewhere, but one cannot trace the slightest sign of them in Shakespeare … I am not concerned with who wrote the works of Shakespeare … but I can hardly think it was the Stratford boy. Whoever wrote them had an aristocratic attitude.”----------------Freud->--
“I no longer believe that William Shakespeare the actor from Stratford was the author of the works that have been ascribed to him.”

— Autobiographical Study (1927), 130


“It is undeniably painful to all of us that even now we do not know who was the author of the Comedies, Tragedies and Sonnets of Shakespeare, whether it was in fact the untutored son of the provincial citizen of Stratford, who attained a modest position as an actor in London … ”

— Speech accepting the Goethe Prize, 1930. Quoted in Shakespeare's Lives (1970) 609.------------------“I am 'sort of' haunted by the conviction that the divine William is the biggest and most successful fraud ever practiced on a patient world.”

—<< Letters of Henry James------------Dickens->>----“It is a great comfort, to my way of thinking, that so little is known concerning the poet. The life of Shakespeare is a fine mystery and I tremble every day lest something turn up.”

— Complete Writings 37:206--------------------Sir Gielgud>>>>-----In 1996, while serving as president of the World Shakespeare Congress, Gielgud signed a petition (along with more than 400 others), which reads as follows:

“We, the undersigned, petition the Shakespeare Association of America, in light of ongoing research, to engage actively in a comprehensive, objective and sustained investigation of the authorship of the Shakespeare Canon …”
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Re: Shakespeare never existed

Postby gorgeous » Sat Apr 23, 2016 4:09 pm

same site----Past Doubters | Shakespeare Authorship Coalition at ...

https://doubtaboutwill.org/past_doubters

“The [doubters] have presented a very strong — almost fully convincing — case for their point of view. The debate continues and it is well it does. We need this ...Not one play, not one poem, not one letter in Mr. Shakspere's own hand has ever been found. He divided his time between London and Stratford, a situation conducive to correspondence. Early scholars naturally expected that at least some of his correspondence would have survived. Yet the only writings said to be in his own hand are six shaky, inconsistent signatures on legal documents, including three found on his will.------------The gap between Mr. Shakspere's youth in Stratford and the first record of him in London is known as the “lost years.” But for a few church records, the first twenty-eight years of his life could be described as lost. Scholars know nothing about how he acquired the breadth and depth of knowledge displayed in the works. This is not to say that a commoner, even in the rigid, hierarchical social structure of Elizabethan England, could not have managed to do it somehow; but how could it have happened without leaving a single trace? Orthodox scholars attribute the miracle to his innate “genius,” but even a genius must acquire knowledge. Books were expensive and difficult to obtain during those times, except at universities or private libraries. No book that Mr. Shakspere owned, or that is known to have been in his possession, has ever been found. Academic experts on characteristics of geniuses see little reason to think that Mr. Shakspere was a genius.

No record shows that any William Shakespeare ever received payment, or secured patronage, for writing. After dedicating his first two poems to the earl of Southampton, Shakespeare issued no more dedications. Why would any writer motivated by profit, as we are told Mr. Shakspere was, not visibly seek patronage? Some scholars claim that the earl of Southampton was his patron, but no record shows that they ever met.
-------------------Contrary to the traditional view that the author became a prominent public figure, there is no record that he ever addressed the public directly, either in person or in writing (other than the two early dedications); and no record shows that either Elizabeth I, or James I, ever met Shakespeare, or spoke or wrote his name. Even after one of his plays was performed as part of the Essex rebellion, Shakespeare was not mentioned. Almost uniquely among Elizabethan poets, Shakespeare remained silent following the death of Elizabeth. Early in the reign of James I, records place Shakspere in Stratford while plays were staged in London for the Court. Why was the popular playwright and leading actor of the King's Men not part of such events?------------------------------It is not that there are no documents for Mr. Shakspere; there are close to seventy, but all are non-literary. They reveal a businessman of Stratford, plus a theater entrepreneur and sometime minor actor in London. A few records show him delinquent in paying taxes, and he was cited for hoarding grain during a famine. A William Wayte, evidently threatened by him, sought “sureties of the peace against William Shakspere.” In 1612, allegedly at the height of his fame, a London court called him simply a “gentleman of Stratford.” He sued over small business matters, but never once objected to an unauthorized publication of the works. The orthodox see nothing unusual in the lack of documentation for Mr. Shakspere's ostensible career, but he is the only presumed writer of his time for whom there is no contemporary evidence of a writing career.

Stranger still, this alleged prolific writer is said to have retired in his late-forties, with his faculties intact, and returned to the same market town from which he came, never to write a play, a poem, or even a letter. There is no record that he ever put on a play in Stratford, or that any of its residents viewed him as a poet. Several people who knew the man, or knew who he was, seem not to have associated him with the author, including his son-in-law, Dr. John Hall, poet Michael Drayton and prominent historian William Camden. Nobody, including literary contemporaries, ever recognized Mr. Shakspere as a writer during his lifetime; and when he died in 1616, no one seemed to notice.
---------------------Scholars have found few, mostly dubious connections between the life of the alleged author and the works. Why are virtually all of the plays set among the upper classes, and how did the author learn of their ways? Why is only one play set in Mr. Shakspere's Elizabethan or Jacobean England? Why are so many in Italy? How did he become so familiar with all things Italian that even obscure details in these plays are accurate? Why did he never mention Stratford, and never write a play that seems to reflect his own life experiences? While pouring out his heart in the Sonnets, why did he not once mention the death of his 11-year-old son?
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Re: Shakespeare never existed

Postby gorgeous » Sat Apr 23, 2016 4:23 pm

taken from -----Manly P. Hall .."The Secret Teachings of All Ages"-----There are no authentic portraits of Shakspere in existence. The dissimilarities the Droeshout, Chandos, Janssen, Hunt, Ashbourne, Soest, and Dunford portraits prove conclusively that the artists were unaware of Shakspere's actual features. An examination of the Droeshout portrait discloses several peculiarities. Baconian enthusiasts are convinced that the face is only a caricature, possibly the death mask of Francis Bacon. A comparison of the Droeshout Shakspere with portraits and engravings of Francis Bacon demonstrates the identity of the structure of the two faces, the difference in expression being caused by lines of shading. Not also the peculiar line running from the ear down to the chin. Does this line subtly signify that the face itself a mask, ending at the ear? Notice also that the head is not connected with the body, but is resting on the collar. Most strange of all is the coat: one-half is on backwards. In drawing the jacket, the artist has made the left arm correctly, but the right arm has the back of the shoulder to the front. Frank Woodward has noted that there are 157 letters on the title page. This is a Rosicrucian signature of first importance. The date, 1623, Plus the two letters "ON" from the word "LONDON," gives the cryptic signature of Francis Bacon, by a simple numerical cipher. By merely exchanging the 26 letters of the alphabet for numbers, 1 became A, 6 becomes F, 2 becomes B, and 3 becomes C, giving AFBC. To this is added the ON from LONDON, resulting in AFBCON, which rearranged forms F. BACON.
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Re: Shakespeare never existed

Postby Pyrrho » Sat Apr 23, 2016 6:12 pm

This is all copy and paste. Where's the commentary? Otherwise it's all copyright violation.
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Re: Shakespeare never existed

Postby zeuzzz » Sat Apr 23, 2016 7:10 pm

Hmm https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Declarati ... able_Doubt

The Declaration of Reasonable Doubt is an Internet signing petition that seeks to enlist broad public support for the Shakespeare authorship question to be accepted as a legitimate field of academic inquiry by 2016, the 400th anniversary of William Shakespeare's death. The petition was presented to William Leahy of Brunel University by the actors Sir Derek Jacobi and Mark Rylance on 8 September 2007 in Chichester, England, after the final matinee of the play I Am Shakespeare on the topic of the bard's identity, featuring Rylance in the title role. The document has since been signed by 3,300 people (as of March 2016 according to the website), including 561 self-described current and former academics.[1][2][3][4][5][6]

[1]Van Gelder, Lawrence (2007-09-10). "Arts Briefly". The New York Times. Retrieved 2010-05-23.
[2]Actors question Bard's authorship". BBC News (BBC). 2007-09-09.
[3]Coalition forms to discredit Shakespeare's authorship". CBC News (CBC). 2007-09-09.
[4]Vanessa Thorpe (2007-09-09). "Who was Shakespeare? That is (still) the question". The Observer (Guardian News and Media Limited).
[5]Coalition aims to expose Shakespeare". KXnet.com. Associated Press. 2007-09-08. Hackett 2009, p. 172
[6]Farouky, Jumana. The Mystery of Shakespeare's Identity. TIME entertainment. 13 Sept 2007.


I have not mustered the willpower to read the above yet, but from scanning whilst I found the above link, people like Orson Welles and many others quoted as doubting Shakespeare wrote many things based purely on his material. It is likely critics and general people panned their work as just fraudulent copies of his. Thus the resentment.

There are also such petitions with thousands of signatories against the Big Bang, Evolution, Global Warming, and many other things. So I'm not swayed in the slightest by the "3,300" people bit, most of which are probably barely graduates and from pretty much any field imaginable. The only credence will come from the arguments they can make.

^ Having posted that I'm not sure I can be bothered to continue with this thread much more; even if true so what? Why? And who benefitted?
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Re: Shakespeare never existed

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Sat Apr 23, 2016 7:29 pm

Its the work, not the author, that is most important. misPLACED emPHAsis. As usual.
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Re: Shakespeare never existed

Postby zeuzzz » Sat Apr 23, 2016 7:44 pm

Maybe reading this is in order to understand why I did not dismiss this subject out of hand to be locked: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Gutenberg_Galaxy

As usual McLuhan comes up in another totally separate context. Reading his books is a challenge, but the one thing they are not is a waste of time. I would love there to be a media subforum here, however most media issues can fall under human consciousness ultimately.

Though McLuhan does quote Shakespeare a few times in his literature and apparently taught some classes at university about his prose [ref 29]
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Re: Shakespeare never existed

Postby zeuzzz » Sat Apr 23, 2016 9:00 pm

Gorgeous: The original posts are a massive mess. Can you tidy them up and condense them down to some central tenants? Like a few pivotal paragraphs?

And don't forget:

zeuzzz wrote:even if true so what? Why? And who benefitted?
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Re: Shakespeare never existed

Postby gorgeous » Sat Apr 23, 2016 9:39 pm

my posts are readable if you bother to read them....the evidence has convinced thousands of scholars, famous authors , actors, Supreme Court Judges.....see above to see how disturbed some are when they believe it is true.....as to why....The real author was probably Francis Bacon who wanted to benefit humanity but didn't need applause for his gift...he had the high education, travel experience, and worked with the Royal family....he seemed to have belonged to philosophical secret societies who are said to guide humanity with various teachings and ideas to develop the mind....--------------wiki------Various authors[11][12] have written that there were indications that Francis Bacon had gone into debt while secretly funding the publishing of materials for the Freemasons, Rosicrucians, "Spear-Shakers", "Knights of the Helmet", as well as publishing, with the assistance of Ben Jonson, a selection of the plays that they believe he had written under the pen name of "Shake-Speare" in a "First Folio" in 1623.[
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Re: Shakespeare never existed

Postby Poodle » Sat Apr 23, 2016 10:08 pm

http://shakespeareauthorship.com/howdowe.html

http://www.pbs.org/shakespeare/evidence/

... amongst many others. Just choose a side to support. The problem is, gorgeous, we all know which side you'll take before you post anything at all.

Your title is a tad on the silly side. William Shakespeare existed - there's no question of this. The argument is always about whether the Shakespeare we know existed wrote the works attributed to him. Personally, I think it's so trivial as to be unworthy of even a moment's thought.

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Re: Shakespeare never existed

Postby gorgeous » Sat Apr 23, 2016 10:15 pm

Spear- shaker had a different meaning showing it was a chosen name for a specific purpose...Shakespeare the author of the work didn't exist..
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Re: Shakespeare never existed

Postby Poodle » Sat Apr 23, 2016 11:12 pm

You do come up with some rubbish, gorgeous.

The most likely derivation of the name Shakespeare (according to every reputable source I've ever seen) is what it says - a shaker of spears, a pushy sod, an obstreperous righter of perceived wrongs. As that's a literal usage describing a very specific thing, there's no sane reason to look further. In the England of that time, people went by the names they were given at their christenings. With my very own eyes, I have seen the record of the marriage between Shakespeare and his wife. Definitely said Shakespeare ... definitely.

The works of Shakespeare exist and were written by someone. That someone appears to have been the same person in most cases. Whoever it was has had the name William Shakespeare attributed to him, and his contemporaries called him William Shakespeare and the people who knew him called him William Shakespeare. Obviously, then, his name was Shirley McCrap. Doesn't have the same ring, does it?

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Re: Shakespeare never existed

Postby gorgeous » Sat Apr 23, 2016 11:18 pm

he never existed...were the famous people above all wrong?
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Re: Shakespeare never existed

Postby Matthew Ellard » Sun Apr 24, 2016 12:01 am

gorgeous wrote:he never existed...were the famous people above all wrong?


Yes. Shakespeare left a will. Francis Collins of Warwick was his lawyer.

Secondly, why do you think there would be records of payments to Shakespeare, when the money from the honour box was simply divided up by the theater's owner at the end of each show? Do have any idea how playwrights earned money back in Elizabethan England at all?

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Re: Shakespeare never existed

Postby Flash » Sun Apr 24, 2016 12:18 am

It's like a science fiction movie script. Some Shakespeare enthusiast comes back from the future to find the real guy and brings all of the Shakespeare's work with him. There is an accident and he dies. The Shakespeare's pieces get published under the name...yes, Shakespeare. It's all true, I swear. :actor:
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Re: Shakespeare never existed

Postby Gord » Sun Apr 24, 2016 3:58 am

Flash wrote:It's like a science fiction movie script. Some Shakespeare enthusiast comes back from the future to find the real guy and brings all of the Shakespeare's work with him. There is an accident and he dies. The Shakespeare's pieces get published under the name...yes, Shakespeare. It's all true, I swear. :actor:

Great, now you've given someone ideas. Soon there will be a television show about a time-travelling William Shakespeare who goes around solving mysteries. I bet he'll even team up with Sir Arthur Conan Doyle and Harry Houdini!
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Re: Shakespeare never existed

Postby Matthew Ellard » Sun Apr 24, 2016 6:28 am

Flash wrote:It's like a science fiction movie script. Some Shakespeare enthusiast comes back from the future to find the real guy and brings all of the Shakespeare's work with him. There is an accident and he dies. The Shakespeare's pieces get published under the name...yes, Shakespeare. It's all true, I swear. :actor:


This was the story line in the first colour remake series of the Twilight Zone.

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Re: Shakespeare never existed

Postby Poodle » Sun Apr 24, 2016 8:28 am

Some of the people who must have been in on the conspiracy if what gorgeous says is true ...

Queen Elizabeth I
King James I
Ben Jonson
Samuel Pepys
Voltaire


Liars and lizards, every one!

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Re: Shakespeare never existed

Postby Gord » Sun Apr 24, 2016 3:06 pm

Don't forget Jeesus. That guy had a finger in everything!
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Re: Shakespeare never existed

Postby Flash » Sun Apr 24, 2016 8:16 pm

Don't tell this to the Chreeeeeschians but he had more than a finger in everything. :shock:
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Re: Shakespeare never existed

Postby Matthew Ellard » Mon Apr 25, 2016 1:04 am

Poodle wrote:Some of the people who must have been in on the conspiracy if what gorgeous says is true ...

Queen Elizabeth I
King James I
Ben Jonson
Samuel Pepys
Voltaire


Plus the seven witnesses to Shakespeare's will.

This is when Gorgeous is simply annoying. Gorgeous has absolutely no idea who Shakespeare is, what Elizabethan England was like or any of the evidence concerning Shakespeare. It's as though Gorgeous thinks Shakespeare got his plays photocopied for each actor with his copyright notification printed in three colours on the bottom of each A4 page.

I would think that the pragmatic way of controlling "copyright" back then was for Shakespeare to simply to collect all five or six hand copied scripts, back from the actors at the end of each rehearsal. This is exactly how the music industry worked, with sheet music, up until a hundred years ago. This is why printing presses had to be licensed under the Press Act of 1662, to stop physical copying.

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Re: Shakespeare never existed

Postby gorgeous » Mon Apr 25, 2016 1:50 am

the evidence speaks for itself...as the famous ones^^ agreed he never existed....
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Re: Shakespeare never existed

Postby Matthew Ellard » Mon Apr 25, 2016 2:10 am

gorgeous wrote:the evidence speaks for itself...as the famous ones^^ agreed he never existed....

You're an idiot. Famous people's opinions, who were not even alive when Shakespeare was a playwright and famous Londoner, don't count.

The seven witnesses to Shakespeare's will, were his contemporary family and lawyer and they legally matter. That's what a will is for.

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Re: Shakespeare never existed

Postby Gord » Mon Apr 25, 2016 3:58 am

Matthew Ellard wrote:I would think that the pragmatic way of controlling "copyright" back then was for Shakespeare to simply to collect all five or six hand copied scripts, back from the actors at the end of each rehearsal.

If I recall correctly, this may be why there are variations in the scripts -- for instance, is it "too too solid flesh" or "too too sullied flesh"? The plays were written down by people who watched them from the audience. But that's just something I was told once by a high school teacher, and I think he was an English teacher (and therefore untrustworthy on any subject :neener: ), so I only mention it because it's an interesting idea. (Personally, I think the plays were copied from handwritten version, and the variations were due to spelling conventions and intentional editing by Shakespeare.)
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Re: Shakespeare never existed

Postby Matthew Ellard » Mon Apr 25, 2016 4:35 am

Gord wrote: Personally, I think the plays were copied from handwritten version, and the variations were due to spelling conventions and intentional editing by Shakespeare.
I think you are probably right. If you watch a producer on live TV, she will make changes on the spot to the script or "flow-time" to make the show work.

I can imagine Shakespeare having some back stage argument with a actor about a line delivered in the matinee performance and changing it on his script for the evening performance. Imagine thirty years of all those changes going on. It's not like he could "edit his master copy on his PC".

Also the actors were the stars & draw-card and not Shakespeare. I can imagine those actors back then, used plays to promote their own personalities and not their acting skills to promote a well written play. I can imagine Shakespeare got sick of all these "drama queens" and that's why he retired fully. He probably wanted to concentrate on his garden.

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Re: Shakespeare never existed

Postby Poodle » Mon Apr 25, 2016 7:26 am

The thing that really creases me about this kind of silliness is - what for?

What possible reason could there have been for a couple of English monarchs, a handful of the intelligentsia of the day and a host of also-rans to invent such a load of loonfodder?

Apart from "Stupidity will expand to fill the space available and, once that's full, expand even further to fill unavailable space".

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Re: Shakespeare never existed

Postby gorgeous » Mon Apr 25, 2016 2:50 pm

“I am ‘sort of’ haunted by the conviction,” wrote novelist Henry James, “that the divine William is the biggest and most successful fraud ever practiced on a patient world.”
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Re: Shakespeare never existed

Postby Poodle » Mon Apr 25, 2016 3:49 pm

Henry James was a sham. Her real name was Henrietta, she was born in Kingston, Jamaica, and her father ate frogs for a living.

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Re: Shakespeare never existed

Postby gorgeous » Mon Apr 25, 2016 3:53 pm

:lol:
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Re: Shakespeare never existed

Postby Gord » Mon Apr 25, 2016 6:46 pm

“Of course Shakespeare was a real person,” President Abraham Lincoln said into the microphone, “we went to the same kindergarten together. He was a year ahead of me, of course. But we did fight in adjacent brigades during the zombie apocalypse.”
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Re: Shakespeare never existed

Postby Flash » Mon Apr 25, 2016 10:47 pm

Sheik Speer an Arab-German refugee, settled in Avon, made his money selling pork falafels. His autistic man servant Bozo wrote the stuff and published it under his master's name which, I should mention, has subsequently been deformed into Shakespeare by the illiterate English. :hmm:
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Re: Shakespeare never existed

Postby gorgeous » Sun Feb 26, 2017 2:44 pm

psst
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Re: Shakespeare never existed

Postby Gawdzilla Sama » Sun Feb 26, 2017 3:21 pm

Bump your own garbage? Really?
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Re: Shakespeare never existed

Postby gorgeous » Sun Feb 26, 2017 3:32 pm

not garbage...truth...
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Re: Shakespeare never existed

Postby Matthew Ellard » Mon Feb 27, 2017 12:08 am

gorgeous wrote:not garbage...truth...


Have you read Shakespeare's 1616 will? Were the seven witnesses also fake people? Why would Francis Collins, Shakespeare's lawyer fake Shakespeare's will?
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Re: Shakespeare never existed

Postby Gawdzilla Sama » Mon Feb 27, 2017 12:50 am

How can you say that Shakespeare was more important than bacon?
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Re: Shakespeare never existed

Postby scrmbldggs » Mon Feb 27, 2017 1:11 am

Nevar! :shakefist:
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