First Heard, f believed - Panama Papers==UPDATE

Who else knows what we know, Jerry?
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First Heard, f believed - Panama Papers==UPDATE

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Tue Apr 05, 2016 12:17 am

Just saw it on Thom Hartman. "A story too big for main stream media to ignore."

Well, I used to joke about "The Bilderberg Group" as I see every innocent reason for rich folk to pal around with one another. birds of a feather...same reason I attend cooking schools. A community of interests.

But it makes sense there would be a service economy for people with more (stolen) cash than they can hide themselves.

Class warfare. We already lost. /// Greed beyond stupidity: allow wealth transfer legal and illegal to the Already Too Rich on the fanciful half conscious dream that one day you might join that group. UTTERLY STUPID. Yet entire political parties and movements are based on it.

Silly Hoomans. https://panamapapers.icij.org/
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Re: First Heard, first believed = Panama Papers

Postby Matthew Ellard » Tue Apr 05, 2016 1:11 am

This is a tricky situation because of all the different legal tax jurisdictions involved.

About ten years ago the German Foreign Intelligence service "sold" to other countries, lists of bank accounts in Lichtenstein, handed to them by a informant who was meant to only be looking at one person. Those banks accounts were hidden and thus simply tax avoidance.

These new schemes are examples of tax evasion as they have a quasi legal set up as discretionary trusts. The firm (tax promoter) establishes trusts that "in theory" the tax payer cannot control, by installing third party trustees. That Trustee may "decide" to loan the taxpayer money and charge interest. The taxpayer gets a deduction for the interest in his own country yet is really adding wealth to the trust.


A classical example of this was Michael Hutchence, the singer of INXs. He had his millions in off-shore trusts. He did his tax returns at a firm separate from the rest of the band. His own tax lawyers established trusts that were so distant from Michael Hutchence that, when he died, the lawyers simply kept the money. It was a nightmare for his surviving children.

However......
As a general rule, most countries have tax laws, that says words to the effect of "If the activity undertaken makes no business sense other than as activities to reduce tax liability then the commissioner of taxation may....."


As you can imagine this is a nightmare to prove in court for the prosecution team. The solution in Australia, is that the Commissioner can issue a amended tax assessment based on his "reasonable" assumption and the tax payer has to prove that he was not undertaking a scheme to only reduce tax. ( Guilty before proven guilty)

Entertainingly, the main court case that defines this in Australia is a 1930's case "Dept Comm VS Ellard". Mr Ellard ran a brothel. The police had evidence of the number of condoms purchased each week for criminal reasons. The commissioner estimated the income Mr Ellard made a year based on that number of condoms and issued him a Amended Taxation Assessment. Mr Ellard ( already in goal) had to prove otherwise.

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Re: First Heard, first believed = Panama Papers

Postby TJrandom » Tue Apr 05, 2016 7:20 am

I believe that in the US, and now in Japan too - when filing annual tax declarations, one is required to list and report on off-shore assets of value greater than X. I would be surprised if these account/corporation owners have done so.

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Re: First Heard, first believed = Panama Papers

Postby TJrandom » Tue Apr 05, 2016 7:59 am

The US and six or more other countries are looking into these papers... gee, I do hope our NTA (National Tax Agency) doesn`t find my name in there.... :frown:

https://www.yahoo.com/news/tax-authorit ... html?nhp=1

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Re: First Heard, first believed = Panama Papers

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Tue Apr 05, 2016 12:15 pm

The Fraud, if you don't admit to it on its face, is the fact these are arguably legal ...... to begin with.

Can't you smell it?

...................................... you wouldn't step in it, much less eat it.

Unless you had more money than you could spend, and wanted more.
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Re: First Heard, first believed = Panama Papers

Postby ElectricMonk » Tue Apr 05, 2016 12:33 pm

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:The Fraud, if you don't admit to it on its face, is the fact these are arguably legal ...... to begin with.


hey! when I win the lottery, I want to hide my money offshore, too!
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Re: First Heard, first believed = Panama Papers

Postby Scott Mayers » Tue Apr 05, 2016 1:03 pm

I'm suspicious already of these Panama papers. It is already most understood this occurs without being said but it seems like it may be used to out specific people in that particular scheme, not to point out THAT it occurs. It seems political as it comes as no surprise that our news is attempting to connect Putin as being apart of it indirectly.

As to what Matthew was saying, the shipping or sea industries (like cruise ships) always have stated 'offshore' ownerships even when they most obviously have no direct relationships to those sovereignties other than tax evasions. There are likely many clear forms of this abuse already understood that would be overlooked by default. So unless these reveals provide lots of contrast between various and opposing political interests demonstrating that wealth itself is more at fault uniquely, I'm guessing this is just about politics.
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Re: First Heard, first believed = Panama Papers

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Tue Apr 05, 2016 1:12 pm

American Stupidity (evidently world wide): let obvious fraud destroy society because one day I might get the same opportunity. Yes indeed..... very political to enforce laws against the Already Too Rich. After all, as shown by offshoring all their cash, ........ they create jobs dont you know!

I do fully expect the fraud and stupidity to continue: The American Dream.
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Re: First Heard, first believed = Panama Papers

Postby Gord » Tue Apr 05, 2016 2:00 pm

TJrandom wrote:The US and six or more other countries are looking into these papers... gee, I do hope our NTA (National Tax Agency) doesn`t find my name in there.... :frown:

I can assure you the name TJrandom will appear in the listings just as soon as I can hack into them and add it.
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Re: First Heard, first believed = Panama Papers

Postby Matthew Ellard » Wed Apr 06, 2016 12:23 am

TJrandom wrote:I believe that in the US, and now in Japan too - when filing annual tax declarations, one is required to list and report on off-shore assets of value greater than X. I would be surprised if these account/corporation owners have done so.
That is the whole point of setting up a discretionary trust with someone else as trustee. Technically you don't own it and and as it is a discretionary trust, you are not "technically" entitled to anything despite being defined in the trust as a beneficiary. Therefore you don't have to declare it on your own personal tax return.

Trust law is pretty complex because the income in the hand of the beneficiary only crystallises when the first trust tax return is lodged. Therefore it is better to catch these tax evaders as they try to to bring the money back home as ordinary income. The trouble is that really bad baddies don't bring the money back home but send it to other escape route havens.

The No#1 enemy of the Russian civil foreign intelligence service isn't England or America. Its the Russian oligarchs who stripped post communist Russian state enterprises and rum money around the planet. This is all tied up into Russia trying to establish Russian oil agencies in post ISIS & insurgent Syria and Nth Iraq.

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Re: First Heard, first believed = Panama Papers

Postby Matthew Ellard » Wed Apr 06, 2016 12:34 am

Scott Mayers wrote: It seems political as it comes as no surprise that our news is attempting to connect Putin as being apart of it indirectly.
Well that's right. We are talking about a very structured tax avoidance scheme that, by its nature, contractually distances the scheme from the real beneficiaries.

You can now separate this activity into two categories concerning what information you want. There will be information that would legally allow for prosecution in court and information that simply indicates where the money was sent and who benefited. As the second research activity requires "tracing" (or following the money) it will depend on which country the beneficiary is resident or has other property.

As for Putin, I doubt he has hidden assets in a risky western bank, when Russia is blowing all the middle east oil company bribes and hidden bank accounts in the same Western banks.

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Re: First Heard, first believed = Panama Papers

Postby Matthew Ellard » Wed Apr 06, 2016 12:41 am

ElectricMonk wrote: hey! when I win the lottery, I want to hide my money offshore, too!

It drives me insane. Tax lawyers setting up complex schemes so the tax lawyers can charge a lot of money.

It would be better to be a taxpayer and simply pay your domestic tax. That way you can sleep comfortably every night.
Sleep is everything and can't be bought. :D

The other thing is complex tax schemes distract from the core business that makes the money in the first place. A smart businessperson would be better off spending time improving his core business rather than sitting with tax lawyers who he doesn't understand.

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Re: First Heard, first believed = Panama Papers

Postby Flash » Wed Apr 06, 2016 4:36 am

http://www.truthdig.com/report/item/media_gatekeepers_protect_western_1_percent_from_panama_leak_20160404

Craig Murray, a former British ambassador to Uzbekistan and an academic has a few interesting things to say about the Panama Papers in his short article in the Truthdig titled "Corporate Media Gatekeepers Protect Western 1 Percent From Panama Leak"

Whoever leaked the Mossack Fonseca papers appears motivated by a genuine desire to expose the system that enables the ultra wealthy to hide their massive stashes, often corruptly obtained and all involved in tax avoidance. These Panamanian lawyers hide the wealth of a significant proportion of the 1 percent, and the massive leak of their documents ought to be a wonderful thing.

Unfortunately, the leaker has made the dreadful mistake of turning to the western corporate media to publicize the results.


What do you expect? The leak is being managed by the grandly but laughably named “International Consortium of Investigative Journalists”, which is funded and organized entirely by the USA’s Center for Public Integrity. Their funders include:

Ford Foundation
Carnegie Endowment
Rockefeller Family Fund
W.K. Kellogg Foundation
Open Society Foundation (Soros)

Oh {!#%@}, the wolfs have herded and now are guarding the sheep in this arrangement.

Murray warns:
Among many others. Do not expect a genuine expose of western capitalism. The dirty secrets of western corporations will remain unpublished.

Expect hits at Russia, Iran and Syria and some tiny “balancing” western country like Iceland. A superannuated U.K. peer or two will be sacrificed – someone already with dementia.


Yeap, they have already hit on Putin even though his name is not on the Panama Papers. But according to the Western media's usually unreliable reports some {!#%@} Russian fiddle player, supposedly his buddy, is.

Paul Craig Roberts calls them "presstitutes", get it? In service to the rip off elites.
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Re: First Heard, first believed = Panama Papers

Postby TJrandom » Wed Apr 06, 2016 8:15 am

Matthew Ellard wrote: ... Technically you don't own it and and as it is a discretionary trust, you are not "technically" entitled to anything despite being defined in the trust as a beneficiary. Therefore you don't have to declare it on your own personal tax return. ...


Do you think that the US IRS would view it this way? I don`t know the words they use - but `hold an interest in`, and not even a controlling interest, come to mind - but this is far from my knowledge or expertise.

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Re: First Heard, first believed = Panama Papers

Postby ElectricMonk » Wed Apr 06, 2016 9:04 am

This is not just a US investigation: many media and judicial organizations have copies of the data - it will be very telling who will do a proper job of investigation and prosecuting and who will not.
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Re: First Heard, first believed = Panama Papers

Postby Matthew Ellard » Thu Apr 07, 2016 4:49 am

Matthew Ellard wrote: ... Technically you don't own it and and as it is a discretionary trust, you are not "technically" entitled to anything despite being defined in the trust as a beneficiary. Therefore you don't have to declare it on your own personal tax return. ...
TJrandom wrote:Do you think that the US IRS would view it this way? I don`t know the words they use - but `hold an interest in`, and not even a controlling interest, come to mind - but this is far from my knowledge or expertise.


Well this is the major point. The IRS knows what is going on, but has to win a series of supreme court victories to lay down meaning to any legislation they may issue. In Australia, this is being discussed internally in the tax policy committee of the Aust Tax Office. They keep their views to themselves behind locked doors.

It depends what you want as an end result. The best route is to work out an international legal framework that gives guidance to all taxpayers and the judiciary's legislation interpretation. The next best method is to publicly promote "arrested taxpayers" in these schemes, as a warning from the government. (Operation Wickenby)

The "other" method is to kill a couple investors, strip some accounts and make it look as though the tax lawyer's associates did it.
:D

Operation Wickenby
https://crimecommission.gov.au/organise ... t-wickenby
The tax commissioners from Australia, the United States and United Kingdom have substantial new data which reveals extensive use of complex offshore structures by wealthy individuals and companies to conceal assets.

Company directors sentenced under Project Wickenby : The courts continue to send a strong message about their low tolerance for tax cheats by imposing significant jail terms.

Tax Commissioner Michael D'Ascenzo announced Project Wickenby has reached a new milestone in its fight against tax crime, with one billion dollars in tax liabilities raised since 2006.

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Re: First Heard, first believed = Panama Papers

Postby Flash » Thu Apr 07, 2016 5:35 am

ElectricMonk wrote:
This is not just a US investigation: many media and judicial organizations have copies of the data - it will be very telling who will do a proper job of investigation and prosecuting and who will not.

It's an American billionaire project. Soros and company. Nothing good can come out of it.
Right now the Swiss have arrested some European soccer officials (big deal), the prime minister of Iceland have resigned, nobody will miss him and the only names in the media predictably are Putin and Assad even though their names are not in the Panama papers.

Where are the names of the American and European corporations and oligarchs using those off shore havens? And if some are finally named who is going to go after them?

I stay corrected a bit, one of our Canadian banks was named in the papers but our tax agency is blissfully in a winter hibernation and won't wake up till August when the vacation season starts.

I'll have better chance of becoming the next prime minister of Iceland that this being a real, honest investigation of the upper class thievery.
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Re: First Heard, first believed = Panama Papers

Postby Poodle » Thu Apr 07, 2016 7:36 am

I'm still waiting to hear what the illegal bit is that everyone seems intent on shouting about. A tax-avoidance scheme has been shown to exist. Wow! Tax avoidance, as opposed to tax evasion, is a perfectly legal activity in a lot of places in the world - including the UK - yet everyone on the list (plus their relatives, friends and associates) is guilty by public proclamation.

There's nothing new here. A number of the accounts will turn out to be dodgy, and the majority will turn out to be legal.

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Re: First Heard, first believed = Panama Papers

Postby TJrandom » Thu Apr 07, 2016 10:31 am

Poodle wrote:I'm still waiting to hear what the illegal bit is that everyone seems intent on shouting about. A tax-avoidance scheme has been shown to exist. Wow! Tax avoidance, as opposed to tax evasion, is a perfectly legal activity in a lot of places in the world - including the UK - yet everyone on the list (plus their relatives, friends and associates) is guilty by public proclamation.

There's nothing new here. A number of the accounts will turn out to be dodgy, and the majority will turn out to be legal.


That is what I was trying to get at when questioning tax disclosure reporting. Even this may not be required in the US - yet.

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Re: First Heard, first believed = Panama Papers

Postby Matthew Ellard » Thu Apr 07, 2016 1:53 pm

TJrandom wrote: That is what I was trying to get at when questioning tax disclosure reporting. Even this may not be required in the US - yet.
The nature of the disclosure may be manipulated across a few different entity platforms like company requirements or personal or partnership tax return disclosures. The double tax agreements, between modern countries may only require disclosure in the place the money is kept, so if the person in the other country is not a direct owner or cannot demand payment, then it gets murky.

At what point are you crossing the line?
A) You have an aunt in another country who will eventually die and may leave you a million dollars?

B) What if she asked you to set up a trust to do exactly that, from overseas? Her friend, a local lawyer is trustee.

C) What if her million dollars was in the form of a holding (shelf) company, interested on paper in investments that never quite happen?

D) Your family sold her the company for $1 in 1980 and loaned it a million dollars at 0 interest.

E) Your business borrows $100,000 a year at 20% interest from that foreign shelf company, receives $100,000, sends $120,000 back overseas and claims a domestic interest tax deduction of $20,000.

F) You company does this for twenty years in a row.


.

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Re: First Heard, first believed = Panama Papers

Postby TJrandom » Thu Apr 07, 2016 7:40 pm

I`m not finding it now, so can`t provide the link - but I read that the US is becoming the country of choice for tax dodgers around the world, since it requires that other countries report on Americans` holdings - but doesn`t reciprocate. I`ll add the link if I come acrtoss it again.

EDIT... Here is the link...

http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/us-e ... s-38193149
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Re: First Heard, first believed = Panama Papers

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Thu Apr 07, 2016 11:12 pm

TJrandom wrote:I`m not finding it now, so can`t provide the link - but I read that the US is becoming the country of choice for tax dodgers around the world, since it requires that other countries report on Americans` holdings - but doesn`t reciprocate. I`ll add the link if I come acrtoss it again.

American exceptionalism on display? I've not heard that but would not be surprised. I have heard foreign invetments continue in GOUSA because of return and security. No doubt...a mix of things. I would think lack of reciprocation would break down fairly soon...why would Switzerland put up with such disparity?

Poodle: again: the fact that such arrangements are even ARGUABLY legal is the First Crime. Its so simple: billionaires paying taxes at the same rate as their secretaries, maids, chauffeurs, and gardeners...... but not their lawyers and accountants. Oh no, not that.

Ha, ha....Matt is so correct above (somewhere) that one rarely talked about result of all this robber baron GREED is damage to more general productivity, and even: JOBS.

We look with amazement, shock, horror, disbelief, and pity at societies barely fuctional because of institutionalized theft and corruption. Barely looking at ourselves.
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Re: First Heard, first believed = Panama Papers

Postby zeuzzz » Thu Apr 07, 2016 11:17 pm

Matthew Ellard wrote:[a lot of things]


Matthew Ellard wrote:[alot of things]


Matthew Ellard wrote:[alot of things]


Matthew Ellard wrote:[alot of things]


Eh, over thinking this much? I know someone who served time from avoiding less than £ 5k over a few years. Surely the time served should scale with the amount.

Politicians and lawyers have done the finest and most refined work with human language.

Surely put them all in jail.
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Re: First Heard, first believed = Panama Papers

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Thu Apr 07, 2016 11:26 pm

I much prefer over thinking an issue than not thinking at all.
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Re: First Heard, first believed = Panama Papers

Postby Matthew Ellard » Fri Apr 08, 2016 1:39 am

Matthew Ellard wrote:[a lot of things]

zeuzzz wrote:Eh, over thinking this much?
Now think about it Zeuzzz. I'm an entertainment tax lawyer who ran schemes using intellectual property through foreign tax regimes, for foreign and domestic clients. How can I "over think" what I am meant to to be an expert on?

zeuzzz wrote:Surely put them all in jail.
That's the entire point we are discussing. These schemes are designed to prevent that and the host countries aren't exactly handing over documents. That's why the German foreign intelligence service has a tax division.

http://www.afr.com/news/policy/tax/secr ... 0727-jnsrp

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Re: First Heard, first believed = Panama Papers

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Fri Apr 08, 2016 3:10 am

Matthew Ellard wrote: That's why the German foreign intelligence service has a tax division.

......and its why the USA under the Republicans constantly DEFUND the IRS collection activities. Weird since I'm always hearing that one dollar spent to fund such activities results in from 7 to 10 times found money.

Its weird how many people confuse being rich with being anything other than a criminal.
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Re: First Heard, first believed = Panama Papers

Postby TJrandom » Fri Apr 08, 2016 4:54 am

I added the link above... and will be setting up a tax avoidance trust in Utah... If you want to get in on the ground floor - just send me your excess cash....

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Re: First Heard, first believed = Panama Papers

Postby zeuzzz » Mon Apr 11, 2016 6:15 pm

Matthew Ellard wrote:How can I "over think" what I am meant to to be an expert on?


By not being able to see the forest from the trees on this issue.

Matthew Ellard wrote:That's the entire point we are discussing. These schemes are designed to prevent that and the host countries aren't exactly handing over documents. That's why the German foreign intelligence service has a tax division.

http://www.afr.com/news/policy/tax/secr ... 0727-jnsrp


Well the internet and hacking capabilities will just blow it open in the not too distant future and make it far far worse the longer they put it off. Anything is hackable nowadays, it's not a question of if they are hacked and revealed anymore, it's more a question of when + how bad the inequality gets in the future to give people the incentive to leak.
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Re: First Heard, first believed = Panama Papers

Postby zeuzzz » Mon Apr 11, 2016 6:17 pm

I have not actually read all of your points fully yet Matt. I admit all of my replies above are a visceral reaction, based on my general understanding that their is a two tier justice system; one for the public and one for the rich.
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Re: First Heard, first believed = Panama Papers

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Mon Apr 11, 2016 7:10 pm

ZZZZZZ--you quote Matt and then say you haven't read it? You must mean something a bit different? Perhaps not forced yourself to read and reread Matt's legal analysis until the visceral response is subdued. You know.... like modern mass media?

Matt may well be correct that many if not most of the shelters set up are "legal." As I keep saying: THAT IS THE VERY OUTRAGE! Don't even need to go to the shelters that are fraudulent on a fair analysis, or those that are fraudulent on their face but allowed for....... you know.... money.

But what is getting the several and growing number of "World Leaders Criminals/Fraudsters" in trouble is their hypocrisy in deriding the rich for cheating on their taxes or even on point avoiding taxes WHILE they are doing exactly that: not paying their fair share.

Hey! They may be World Leaders.... but they are still snivelling craven self centered hooman beings. Getting along by taking advantage of all those they can. Just as most of us would do in the same circumstances. THAT IS WHY the law ITSELF is so important, and so often the real villain in the news. Not in the headlines, you have to read, think, and conclude.
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Re: First Heard, first believed = Panama Papers

Postby zeuzzz » Mon Apr 11, 2016 8:01 pm

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:ZZZZZZ--you quote Matt


No, if you re-read, I actually quoted exactly what I inferred from merely scanning them. I have read them all now.

I have a headache. Presumably the kind of headache working class people get when they end up in jail for tax avoidance and fiddling trivial benefit expenses.

My headache will probably start to get personal with this subject ... about this topic, so I should probably bow out.

I did start writing a reply using quotes [two times], but it ended up being more disputatious and combative than I currently have the energy for.
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Re: First Heard, first believed = Panama Papers

Postby Matthew Ellard » Tue Apr 12, 2016 1:35 am

Matthew Ellard wrote:How can I "over think" what I am meant to to be an expert on?
zeuzzz wrote:By not being able to see the forest from the trees on this issue.
That was just bizarre. I know "the forest", the "trees", the "leaves" and the dirt this all grows in. I'm the only bloke here who has both wandered in the forest and then swapped sides to prosecute others who have.

Matthew Ellard wrote:That's the entire point we are discussing. These schemes are designed to prevent that and the host countries aren't exactly handing over documents. That's why the German foreign intelligence service has a tax division.
http://www.afr.com/news/policy/tax/secr ... 0727-jnsrp
zeuzzz wrote: Well the internet and hacking capabilities will just blow it open in the not too distant future and make it far far worse the longer they put it off. Anything is hackable nowadays, it's not a question of if they are hacked and revealed anymore, it's more a question of when + how bad the inequality gets in the future to give people the incentive to leak.
That's why you never ever convert paperwork to electronic formats that can be leaked. In the "old days" you printed in green so they couldn't even be photocopied on a B&W photocopier. :D

It's not just leaks to tax authorities, it's also simply about professional confidentiality. If you consult about other people's money or business, it takes decades to build a reputation about confidentiality and five seconds, with one mistake to lose it.

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Re: First Heard, first believed = Panama Papers

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Tue Apr 12, 2016 8:06 pm

"confidentiality" = the foundation for corruption, and the calling card of the legal profession.

over/under thinking: possible in all scenarios.

Simple things. Just look.
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Re: First Heard, first believed = Panama Papers

Postby zeuzzz » Wed Apr 13, 2016 9:21 pm

Half a trillion dollars shifted by corporations in less than ten countries: http://www.ibtimes.com/panama-papers-co ... 12-2351814 "Panama Papers: Corporations Shifted A Half-Trillion Dollars To Offshore Tax Havens In 2012"

I'm becoming more and more suspicious of the people who have this informations motives. If it was wikileaks, fine, at least we would have gotten all the data at once. But it's not. The way in which it's being released smells of a psyop.
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Re: First Heard, first believed = Panama Papers

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Thu Apr 14, 2016 2:11 am

It will smell no matter what..... but what is it BASED ON?............... There ya go!
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Re: First Heard, first believed = Panama Papers

Postby zeuzzz » Mon Apr 25, 2016 11:15 pm

Again on the psyop front: The only country in the world who actually jailed a dozen or so powerful bankers after they crashed the economy during the 2008 crash (Iceland) seemed to take the brunt of this. Their PM resigned within an hour or two of the leaks.

Considering the company involved in these panama papers is only the fifth (to tenth) largest tax haven based company in the world and all the people who use the others are still not public info I still smell something fishy going on here, that goes beyond simple good journalism.
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Re: First Heard, first believed = Panama Papers

Postby Matthew Ellard » Tue Apr 26, 2016 12:24 am

zeuzzz wrote:Again on the psyop front:
How on earth is this "psych ops".

zeuzzz wrote:Considering the company involved in these panama papers is only the fifth (to tenth) largest tax haven based company in the world
How on earth did you calculate that? The firm didn't advertise itself as a "tax haven" agency. All "Big Eight" accounting firms have divisions that do the same sort of thing, however they advise the client on the positive and negative legal ramifications. As normal international accounting firms also perform government work and government audits, they act firmly within the law. Mossack Fonseca appears to have informed clients only about the good side and not warned them about the bad side.

zeuzzz wrote: .....and all the people who use the others are still not public info I still smell something fishy going on here, that goes beyond simple good journalism.
There is nothing fishy going on. Every year another tax haven is "cracked open" as it is a continual battle to catch tax evaders and money launderers. The Panama Papers story simply got air-time because it had some famous clients.

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Re: First Heard, first believed = Panama Papers

Postby zeuzzz » Tue Apr 26, 2016 6:26 am

I simply mean any very large bank in an area with next to no tax laws, or lax shell company laws, I've heard elsewhere that they are small compared to some other banks where security is tighter. Mossack + Fonseca seem to be the tip of a very large iceberg.
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Re: First Heard, first believed = Panama Papers

Postby gorgeous » Thu May 05, 2016 1:58 am

rt---------US government, Soros funded Panama Papers to attack Putin – WikiLeaks ------Washington is behind the recently released offshore revelations known as the Panama Papers, WikiLeaks has claimed, saying that the attack was “produced” to target Russia and President Putin. ---------On Wednesday, the international whistleblowing organization said on Twitter that the Panama Papers data leak was produced by the Organized Crime and Corruption Reporting Project (OCCRP), "which targets Russia and [the] former USSR." The "Putin attack" was funded by the US Agency for International Development (USAID) and American hedge fund billionaire George Soros, WikiLeaks added, saying that the US government's funding of such an attack is a serious blow to its integrity.-----------------Organizations belonging to Soros have been proclaimed to be "undesirable" in Russia. Last year, the Russian Prosecutor General’s Office recognized Soros’s Open Society Foundations and the Open Society Institute Assistance Foundation as undesirable groups, banning Russian citizens and organizations from participation in any of their projects.

Prosecutors then said the activities of the institute and its assistance foundation were a threat to the basis of Russia’s constitutional order and national security. Earlier this year, the billionaire US investor alleged that Putin is "no ally" to US and EU leaders, and that he aims "to gain considerable economic benefits from dividing Europe."
------------------The American government is pursuing a policy of destabilization all over the world, and this [leak] also serves this purpose of destabilization. They are causing a lot of people all over the world and also a lot of money to find its way into the [new] tax havens in America. The US is preparing for a super big financial crisis, and they want all that money in their own vaults and not in the vaults of other countries,” German journalist and author Ernst Wolff told RT.
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Re: First Heard, first believed = Panama Papers

Postby Matthew Ellard » Thu May 05, 2016 5:24 am

gorgeous wrote:rt---------US government, Soros funded Panama Papers to attack Putin – .........


What a complete load of crap. The Panama Papers have caught David Cameron, the Prime minister of England out and two other NATO politicians.

Putin's directive to the SVR's Department of Economic Intelligence, is to still hunt down the money stolen by the Oligarchs in the 1990s, which was funnelled through Fiji and two other countries. 89billion was funnelled through Fiji last year by Russian organised crime.

Putin does not have any money in banks, in countries, that are America's allies for very obvious reasons.


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