Why do people think conspiracy theorist is a synonymous with "irrational person"?

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Re: Why do people think conspiracy theorist is a synonymous with "irrational person"?

Postby Matthew Ellard » Tue Jun 13, 2017 1:09 am

gorgeous wrote:stalking me eh?
You complete idiot. You are posting fake stories on a forum that debunks fake stories. That's why you are posting here! :lol:

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Re: Why do people think conspiracy theorist is a synonymous with "irrational person"?

Postby Gord » Tue Jun 13, 2017 1:11 am

You're not going to, are you. :(

What could it hurt to try?
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Re: Why do people think conspiracy theorist is a synonymous with "irrational person"?

Postby gorgeous » Fri Jun 16, 2017 11:46 am

same crisis actor at 4 shooting events...sad...rather bad luck...wouldn't you say? https://youtu.be/xA8hn7AjbkA
Science Fundamentalism...is exactly what happens when there’s a significant, perceived ideological threat to one’s traditions and identity.

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Re: Why do people think conspiracy theorist is a synonymous with "irrational person"?

Postby gorgeous » Fri Jun 16, 2017 12:11 pm

girl in blue used as witness twice at same shooting hoax....sad...."just slap a hat on her...no one will notice..." https://youtu.be/kcfmFKk6_lw
Science Fundamentalism...is exactly what happens when there’s a significant, perceived ideological threat to one’s traditions and identity.

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Re: Why do people think conspiracy theorist is a synonymous with "irrational person"?

Postby Gord » Fri Jun 16, 2017 12:22 pm

So, why do people think conspiracy theorist is a synonymous with "irrational person"?

Because gorgeous.
"Knowledge grows through infinite timelessness" -- the random fictional Deepak Chopra quote site
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Re: Why do people think conspiracy theorist is a synonymous with "irrational person"?

Postby gorgeous » Fri Jun 16, 2017 12:30 pm

you can't deny the videos^^are accurate...
Science Fundamentalism...is exactly what happens when there’s a significant, perceived ideological threat to one’s traditions and identity.

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Re: Why do people think conspiracy theorist is a synonymous with "irrational person"?

Postby Matthew Ellard » Sat Jun 17, 2017 5:02 am

gorgeous wrote:you can't deny the videos^^are accurate...
They are Gorgeous. The different people have different names. Do we need to go through that again?

You keep repeating you earlier debunked posts. Have you seen your GP about the onset of dementia? :lol:

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Re: Why do people think conspiracy theorist is a synonymous with "irrational person"?

Postby sayer » Sat Jun 24, 2017 5:26 pm


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Re: Why do people think conspiracy theorist is a synonymous with "irrational person"?

Postby Poodle » Sat Jun 24, 2017 6:14 pm

Needs a better microphone - possibly a quantam version.

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Re: Why do people think conspiracy theorist is a synonymous with "irrational person"?

Postby sayer » Sun Jun 25, 2017 5:34 pm

But what do you make of the actual information? As an actual sceptic?

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Re: Why do people think conspiracy theorist is a synonymous with "irrational person"?

Postby Gord » Sun Jun 25, 2017 5:45 pm

sayer wrote:But what do you make of the actual information? As an actual sceptic?

"Sounds like a crock"?
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Re: Why do people think conspiracy theorist is a synonymous with "irrational person"?

Postby sayer » Sun Jun 25, 2017 5:53 pm

But the actual information? Is anyone going to actually address it or just use buzzwords?

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Re: Why do people think conspiracy theorist is a synonymous with "irrational person"?

Postby Gawdzilla Sama » Sun Jun 25, 2017 5:55 pm

sayer wrote:But the actual information? Is anyone going to actually address it or just use buzzwords?

"Actual Information"? I'm not watching a youtube until I know you have.
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Re: Why do people think conspiracy theorist is a synonymous with "irrational person"?

Postby sayer » Sun Jun 25, 2017 6:04 pm

I don't understand any of the responses. I just want an actual attempt from an actual sceptic at some actual debunking, on a video that's only five minutes, with a minimum of avoidance-tactic buzzwords. If one cannot be provided... I'm not sure why this is called the sceptics forum.

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Re: Why do people think conspiracy theorist is a synonymous with "irrational person"?

Postby Gawdzilla Sama » Sun Jun 25, 2017 6:55 pm

sayer wrote:I don't understand any of the responses. I just want an actual attempt from an actual sceptic at some actual debunking, on a video that's only five minutes, with a minimum of avoidance-tactic buzzwords. If one cannot be provided... I'm not sure why this is called the sceptics forum.

We don't do your work for you, and the University of Youtube is not information, it's entertainment.
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Re: Why do people think conspiracy theorist is a synonymous with "irrational person"?

Postby sayer » Sun Jun 25, 2017 7:14 pm

"We don't do your work for you, and the University of Youtube is not information, it's entertainment"

.......

My work is already done because I watched it. The whole point is that you're a sceptic? Meaning you're supposed to actually look at both sides of an argument??

You also seem to have made the claim that there's no factual information anywhere on YouTube... right.

So... you're a sceptic that won't even look at or investigate anything.... and on top of that, instead of engaging in doubt, which is the whole point, you're engaging in dismissal and cynicism. This is embaressing, I just started on the sceptics forum and I still haven't met an actual sceptic lol

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Re: Why do people think conspiracy theorist is a synonymous with "irrational person"?

Postby scrmbldggs » Sun Jun 25, 2017 7:20 pm

sayer, what do you make of this?

Spoiler:
Image
Hi, Io the lurker.

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Re: Why do people think conspiracy theorist is a synonymous with "irrational person"?

Postby sayer » Sun Jun 25, 2017 10:17 pm

scrmbldggs wrote:sayer, what do you make of this?

Spoiler:
Image


I think it has zero relevance to the topic at hand, and that it's a valiant attempt at patronising cynicism which, still avoiding the evidence I've put forward, fizzled out like a breath mint in a puddle.

Came for some scepticism, the best I've received is a picture of a donkey,
Sorely disappointed.

Would like something other than a picture of a donkey, because I thought this was a place of even, modest open minded people who would be happy to intellectually assess a piece of evidence in a discussion that they chose to engage in.

Still praying to see some skepticism.

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Re: Why do people think conspiracy theorist is a synonymous with "irrational person"?

Postby Hex » Sun Jun 25, 2017 10:21 pm

sayer wrote:"We don't do your work for you, and the University of Youtube is not information, it's entertainment"

.......

My work is already done because I watched it. The whole point is that you're a sceptic? Meaning you're supposed to actually look at both sides of an argument??

You also seem to have made the claim that there's no factual information anywhere on YouTube... right.

So... you're a sceptic that won't even look at or investigate anything.... and on top of that, instead of engaging in doubt, which is the whole point, you're engaging in dismissal and cynicism. This is embaressing, I just started on the sceptics forum and I still haven't met an actual sceptic lol

I'm beginning to think you don't actually understand what a skeptic is. You seem to be more on this crusade to try and belittle people by deciding for them what they are based on a nonsensical understanding of a word.

Tell you what, when you figure out what an actual skeptic is, then maybe I'll be interested in interacting with you in the future. Until then I'm really not going to be all that interested in your baiting of people in the disguise of wanting to debate an issue.
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Re: Why do people think conspiracy theorist is a synonymous with "irrational person"?

Postby scrmbldggs » Sun Jun 25, 2017 10:26 pm

sayer wrote:assess a piece of evidence in a discussion

What discussion?

Oh, I see... "That is all." - No, it's not.
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Re: Why do people think conspiracy theorist is a synonymous with "irrational person"?

Postby Gawdzilla Sama » Sun Jun 25, 2017 10:28 pm

sayer wrote:"We don't do your work for you, and the University of Youtube is not information, it's entertainment"

.......

My work is already done because I watched it. The whole point is that you're a sceptic? Meaning you're supposed to actually look at both sides of an argument??

You also seem to have made the claim that there's no factual information anywhere on YouTube... right.

So... you're a sceptic that won't even look at or investigate anything.... and on top of that, instead of engaging in doubt, which is the whole point, you're engaging in dismissal and cynicism. This is embaressing, I just started on the sceptics forum and I still haven't met an actual sceptic lol

That's because your can't see out of your navel.
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Re: Why do people think conspiracy theorist is a synonymous with "irrational person"?

Postby sayer » Sun Jun 25, 2017 10:40 pm

Hex wrote:
sayer wrote:"We don't do your work for you, and the University of Youtube is not information, it's entertainment"

.......

My work is already done because I watched it. The whole point is that you're a sceptic? Meaning you're supposed to actually look at both sides of an argument??

You also seem to have made the claim that there's no factual information anywhere on YouTube... right.

So... you're a sceptic that won't even look at or investigate anything.... and on top of that, instead of engaging in doubt, which is the whole point, you're engaging in dismissal and cynicism. This is embaressing, I just started on the sceptics forum and I still haven't met an actual sceptic lol

I'm beginning to think you don't actually understand what a skeptic is. You seem to be more on this crusade to try and belittle people by deciding for them what they are based on a nonsensical understanding of a word.

Tell you what, when you figure out what an actual skeptic is, then maybe I'll be interested in interacting with you in the future. Until then I'm really not going to be all that interested in your baiting of people in the disguise of wanting to debate an issue.



Just using the Google definition : 'a person inclined to question or doubt accepted opinions'
That means "assessing evidence, weighing up different sides of an argument, and searching for the truth".

"in the disguise of wanting to debate an issue"
On the contrary, I BADLY want to debate the issue. I gave a five minute video of evidence.
Response: dismissal, avoidance, ad hominem, buzzwords.

Look at that behaviour, and compare to the official definition of sceptical methodology above.
Is there a difference? I am not belittling people, I'm highlighting that their behaviour when presented with evidence is not at all aligned with what you'd expect, considering the name of the forum.

Having considered all of that, you may take up the mantle which your fellow sceptics have failed to live up to and continue with the thread's original discussion, assessing the evidence put forwards and having a healthy open minded debate. Or you can engage in more avoidance and adhominem - behaviours which don't put sceptics to a good name. Your choice, given your reputation and title.

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Re: Why do people think conspiracy theorist is a synonymous with "irrational person"?

Postby sayer » Sun Jun 25, 2017 10:43 pm

scrmbldggs wrote:
sayer wrote:assess a piece of evidence in a discussion

What discussion?

Oh, I see... "That is all." - No, it's not.


That's the text underneath the evidence. You have to click on the link above, it goes to a five minute video of evidence.

Please respond in the manner of a healthy assessment of the argument put forwards in the video; don't bother if its just ad hominem, it wastes time in the discussion.

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Re: Why do people think conspiracy theorist is a synonymous with "irrational person"?

Postby sayer » Sun Jun 25, 2017 10:44 pm

Gawdzilla Sama wrote:
sayer wrote:"We don't do your work for you, and the University of Youtube is not information, it's entertainment"

.......

My work is already done because I watched it. The whole point is that you're a sceptic? Meaning you're supposed to actually look at both sides of an argument??

You also seem to have made the claim that there's no factual information anywhere on YouTube... right.

So... you're a sceptic that won't even look at or investigate anything.... and on top of that, instead of engaging in doubt, which is the whole point, you're engaging in dismissal and cynicism. This is embaressing, I just started on the sceptics forum and I still haven't met an actual sceptic lol

That's because your can't see out of your navel.


That's called ad hominem. Please offer some healthy discursive scepticism.
This isn't the ad hominem forum.

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Re: Why do people think conspiracy theorist is a synonymous with "irrational person"?

Postby sayer » Sun Jun 25, 2017 10:48 pm

The discussion has descended very far off topic.
Here's the latest piece of evidence again.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hgrunnLcG9Q

Lets consider it and weigh up some of the arguments and discuss. That is after all the goal of the thread.

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Re: Why do people think conspiracy theorist is a synonymous with "irrational person"?

Postby Nikki Nyx » Sun Jun 25, 2017 11:19 pm

sayer wrote:The discussion has descended very far off topic.
Here's the latest piece of evidence again.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hgrunnLcG9Q

Lets consider it and weigh up some of the arguments and discuss. That is after all the goal of the thread.

The problem, which everyone has attempted to convey to you, is that your video is not evidence. It makes a number of seductive allegations, but fails to support them with verifiable facts from reputable sources. It doesn't even qualify under the legal definition of "evidence," never mind the scientific definition.

If you're making a case that 9/11 was an inside job, it's up to you to set out coherent arguments, present verifiable facts from reputable sources to back up your arguments, and then post for discussion. But the video by itself? Well, there's nothing to consider, because the video merely makes claims. There are no arguments to weigh, because the video fails to support its claims. So there's nothing to discuss.

Frankly, Mike Yard's conspiracy theories are more believable.
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Re: Why do people think conspiracy theorist is a synonymous with "irrational person"?

Postby Hex » Mon Jun 26, 2017 12:03 am

sayer wrote:Having considered all of that, you may take up the mantle which your fellow sceptics have failed to live up to and continue with the thread's original discussion, assessing the evidence put forwards and having a healthy open minded debate. Or you can engage in more avoidance and adhominem - behaviours which don't put sceptics to a good name. Your choice, given your reputation and title.

Not interested in hurt feelings, plus you don't seem to understand what ad hominem means either... I'll just attribute that to your hurt feelings.

All you have demonstrated is that I've made a good call. I truly believe you don't see it, introspection is hard after-all, so we are at an impasse. You think I'm wrong and unfair I don't. If your comments change in the future to where they more align to what your stated goal is and not what they actually are I'll be more than happy to engage in some discussions that interest me.

Though I imagine that your pretty pissed at my assessment of your conduct and probably have written me off, you're gonna show me, by also ignoring me!

That is cool... if so I think there is an ignore function on this forum, get ahead of the game and put my name on it.
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Re: Why do people think conspiracy theorist is a synonymous with "irrational person"?

Postby sayer » Mon Jun 26, 2017 12:25 am

Hex wrote:
sayer wrote:Having considered all of that, you may take up the mantle which your fellow sceptics have failed to live up to and continue with the thread's original discussion, assessing the evidence put forwards and having a healthy open minded debate. Or you can engage in more avoidance and adhominem - behaviours which don't put sceptics to a good name. Your choice, given your reputation and title.

Not interested in hurt feelings, plus you don't seem to understand what ad hominem means either... I'll just attribute that to your hurt feelings.

All you have demonstrated is that I've made a good call. I truly believe you don't see it, introspection is hard after-all, so we are at an impasse. You think I'm wrong and unfair I don't. If your comments change in the future to where they more align to what your stated goal is and not what they actually are I'll be more than happy to engage in some discussions that interest me.

Though I imagine that your pretty pissed at my assessment of your conduct and probably have written me off, you're gonna show me, by also ignoring me!

That is cool... if so I think there is an ignore function on this forum, get ahead of the game and put my name on it.


Ad hominem is when the argument becomes about the individual rather than the point of discussion. I don't really know why you said 'hurt feelings' but that is ad hominem - you've successfully demonstrated it.

So what about the evidence and the arguments put forward in that video? That's what the thread is about. Should we actually engage in some scepticism around it now?

I can't be bothered with all the bickering man can we actually discuss the topic now

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Re: Why do people think conspiracy theorist is a synonymous with "irrational person"?

Postby Matthew Ellard » Mon Jun 26, 2017 1:08 am

sayer wrote:But what do you make of the actual information? As an actual sceptic?
What information? You posted a you tube video. Are we meant to do your work for you?

Set out, in your own works, the three most compelling claims and the supporting evidence from the video.

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Re: Why do people think conspiracy theorist is a synonymous with "irrational person"?

Postby Gawdzilla Sama » Mon Jun 26, 2017 1:55 am

Anybody figured out who this is yet?
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Re: Why do people think conspiracy theorist is a synonymous with "irrational person"?

Postby Gord » Mon Jun 26, 2017 8:20 am

Gawdzilla Sama wrote:
sayer wrote:But the actual information? Is anyone going to actually address it or just use buzzwords?

"Actual Information"? I'm not watching a youtube until I know you have.

I watched it. It's just a bunch of buzzwords. I don't understand what sayer wants us to say about it.
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Re: Why do people think conspiracy theorist is a synonymous with "irrational person"?

Postby Gord » Mon Jun 26, 2017 8:22 am

sayer wrote:
scrmbldggs wrote:
sayer wrote:assess a piece of evidence in a discussion

What discussion?

Oh, I see... "That is all." - No, it's not.


That's the text underneath the evidence. You have to click on the link above, it goes to a five minute video of evidence.

No, it doesn't. It goes to a five minute video of some idiot spouting buzzwords that don't mean anything unless you dig into the mess of a conspiracy he's mired himself into.
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Re: Why do people think conspiracy theorist is a synonymous with "irrational person"?

Postby TJrandom » Mon Jun 26, 2017 9:59 am

Gord wrote:
sayer wrote:
scrmbldggs wrote:
sayer wrote:assess a piece of evidence in a discussion

What discussion?

Oh, I see... "That is all." - No, it's not.


That's the text underneath the evidence. You have to click on the link above, it goes to a five minute video of evidence.

No, it doesn't. It goes to a five minute video of some idiot spouting buzzwords that don't mean anything unless you dig into the mess of a conspiracy he's mired himself into.


I watched too. Does Ytube have an un-watch feature? I`d hate to think that my `click` somehow contributed to nutters.

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Re: Why do people think conspiracy theorist is a synonymous with "irrational person"?

Postby sayer » Mon Jun 26, 2017 11:18 am

It's not just buzzwords, I'll break it down. Let me know if there is anything remotely odd or suspicious about the following ;

Nineteen men directed by a man on dialysis in a cave on the other side of the world using a satellite phone and a laptop managed to carry out the most sophisticated penetration of the most heavily defended airspace on the planet. Now alright, if that was in a movie you'd have to suspend your disbelief, but I guess it's within reason.

These men overpowered all of the passengers and all of the military combat trained pilots on four planes.
They then flew the planes wildly off course for a whole hour without a single fighter intercepter coming after them.

Following this they managed to KNOCK DOWN - completely demolish - three buildings using TWO PLANES in New York.
Now that is sounding a bit fishy since two is less than three but alright.... somehow I guess.

Meanwhile another terrorist managed to fly a commercial aircraft in a skilful corkscrew turn, descending at just the right angle so that he could fly perfectly level with the ground and hit the pentagon. For a terrorist, this a remarkable feat of piloting,

In any case he managed to perfectly time it so that he could hit the budget office of the pentagon. Oh no! You mean the exact office where they were working on the mystery of the 2.3 trillion dollars announced missing from the US defence budget inexplicably the day before? You mean that this terrorist attack was timed so that the missing money was drowned out of the news?

A very useful inconvenience where that was concerned.

The news anchors knew that it was done by Osama Bin Laden within MINUTES of the attack. How did they get hold of that info?? The administration knew within the same day that it was Osama Bin Laden.... how??

I should also mention that in a fire that was hot enough to melt steel and collapse a sky scraper, the hijackers passport survived and was found a few blocks away. In the words of the news anchor, 'if you can believe that'. I would especially like a response to this point.

The 'official investigation' was based on testimonies that were extracted through torture.
All 92 tapes of terrorist testimony were destroyed.... why? Wasn't that important evidence?
It was also stated that the question of who funded the terrorist attacks was of 'little practical significance'. One would think that that would be of massive significance.

All of the terabytes of data on the insider trading before the attacks was destroyed and not featured on the official report. Please explain why. just part of routine record keeping I guess?

All of the testimonies of people in or near the buildings ON THE DAY saying that they heard explosions from inside the buildings have been ignored and dismissed. If you think otherwise, you're a paranoid conspiracy theorist.

Now Bin Laden... he lived in a cave in Afghanistan but somehow got away.... then got away again.... all the while taunting the most sophisticated and advanced satellite tracking in the history of the world for a decade. During this period he continued to release videos and.... apparently seems to get younger in some of the videos??

In the SEAL operation that tracked him down, which was not videos or recorded and in which he did not resist they panicked and killed him instead of capturing him.... the man who was the world's best source lf intelligence on those pesky terrorist attacks. Then before telling the public about this event, they dumped his body in the ocean.

Then a couple of the SEAL members of the team died in a helicopter crash in Afghanistan.

This is the true story of 9/11, brought to us by the media who brought us the hard truths about the weapons of mass destruction in Iraq (they later admitted publicly that they'd lied/ stretched the truth).

Now I would like to hear some actual explanations to these points because the people on this forum appear to have sorted it all out and explained it. Please avoid useless buzzwords and accusations of word salad, its pretty blatant that this was a coherent post raising real questions. If all you're going to enable in is ad hominem or dismissal/avoidance, don't waste time in the discussion. Real responses with real criticism please.

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sayer
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Re: Why do people think conspiracy theorist is a synonymous with "irrational person"?

Postby sayer » Mon Jun 26, 2017 11:47 am

http://911research.wtc7.net/wtc/analysis/collapse.html

Complete breakdown and structural analysis here

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Re: Why do people think conspiracy theorist is a synonymous with "irrational person"?

Postby sayer » Mon Jun 26, 2017 6:46 pm

.... quite telling that there hasn't been a response yet

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Re: Why do people think conspiracy theorist is a synonymous with "irrational person"?

Postby scrmbldggs » Mon Jun 26, 2017 6:49 pm

You figured out it's Monday? :-P
Hi, Io the lurker.

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Re: Why do people think conspiracy theorist is a synonymous with "irrational person"?

Postby Gord » Mon Jun 26, 2017 7:11 pm

sayer wrote:It's not just buzzwords, I'll break it down.

It's ALL just buzzwords.

Let me know if there is anything remotely odd or suspicious about the following ;

Nineteen men directed by a man on dialysis in a cave on the other side of the world using a satellite phone and a laptop managed to carry out the most sophisticated penetration of the most heavily defended airspace on the planet.

See, I'm starting to think you don't know what "buzzwords" are.

Everything in that statement has been diluted down with such stupid simplicity as to make it seem impossible. Let's break down just a few of these opening buzzwords with a bit of explanation, to see if you can get the gist of it:

1) Nineteen men

It was more than nineteen men. Sure there were only nineteen men on the planes themselves, but that's ignoring all the other people involved in getting them to that point.

2) a man on dialysis

First, dialysis is a treatment. It does not mean you are literally hooked up to a machine 24/7 for the rest of your life. Current Western treatment is three times a week for four to six hours each. It's inconvenient, but doesn't prevent people from doing other things the rest of the time, including holding down a job. And that's assuming you do it three times a week; you could do it only once a week, which is how often treatments used to be in Western medicine (and how often some people still get them done).

Second, it was never determined whether bin Laden was actually on dialysis at all: http://www.snopes.com/rumors/kidney.asp

Now alright, if that was in a movie you'd have to suspend your disbelief...

Yes, because of the inaccurate way it has been portrayed.

These men overpowered all of the passengers and all of the military combat trained pilots on four planes.

These buzzwords are bordering now on outright lies. "All of the passengers" were never "overpowered", that implies they were all beaten up, which is ridiculous and only someone who wanted to make the whole thing seem fake would ever make such a claim. They threatened the passengers, but told them not to resist and everything would be okay. At the time, there was adequate reason to believe it was a simple high-jacking.

And the unarmed "military combat trained" pilots (how many of the pilots were military combat trained? the buzzwords make it sound like all of them were) were either "overpowered" by armed "military combat trained" high-jackers, or else they surrendered when confronted from armed men they felt they had no chance to "overpower" themselves -- the high-jackers claimed to have bombs. There is nothing about this which requires any suspension of disbelief. It's only when degraded into a few buzzwords designed to make it seem unbelievable that you'd need to suspend your disbelief.

Do you understand yet why I'm saying that video is little more than buzzwords designed to mislead and misrepresent things?
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Re: Why do people think conspiracy theorist is a synonymous with "irrational person"?

Postby Gord » Mon Jun 26, 2017 7:13 pm

sayer wrote:.... quite telling that there hasn't been a response yet

Yes, it shows that most of us have recognised what utterly useless nonsense this is. Most of us don't respond to cranks at all, and those of us who do tend to spend much less time on it than the cranks want.
"Knowledge grows through infinite timelessness" -- the random fictional Deepak Chopra quote site
"You are also taking my words out of context." -- Justin
"Nullius in verba" -- The Royal Society ["take nobody's word for it"]
#ANDAMOVIE

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Re: Why do people think conspiracy theorist is a synonymous with "irrational person"?

Postby OlegTheBatty » Mon Jun 26, 2017 8:10 pm

sayer wrote:This isn't the ad hominem forum.


I see you haven't been here long . . .
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