JFK Conspiracy Theories in SKEPTIC

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Re: JFK Conspiracy Theories in SKEPTIC

Postby OlegTheBatty » Wed Nov 01, 2017 5:51 pm

Gawdzilla Sama wrote:
Tom Palven wrote:
Gawdzilla Sama wrote:No, I don't read anything, not even this forum.

I'm shocked.

My work here is finished.


I'm not shocked.
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Re: JFK Conspiracy Theories in SKEPTIC

Postby Gawdzilla Sama » Wed Nov 01, 2017 6:56 pm

OlegTheBatty wrote:
Gawdzilla Sama wrote:
Tom Palven wrote:
Gawdzilla Sama wrote:No, I don't read anything, not even this forum.

I'm shocked.

My work here is finished.


I'm not shocked.

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Re: JFK Conspiracy Theories in SKEPTIC

Postby enoch arden » Mon Feb 26, 2018 7:27 pm

The main common problem of all the conspiracy theories of the JFK assassination, and for that matter also RFK assassination is that they don't suggest any rational motive. Why was it so important and urgent to prevent any of the brothers to get elected? In what way did these assassinations change the history?

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Re: JFK Conspiracy Theories in SKEPTIC

Postby Tom Palven » Mon Feb 26, 2018 7:49 pm

enoch arden wrote:The main common problem of all the conspiracy theories of the JFK assassination, and for that matter also RFK assassination is that they don't suggest any rational motive.


The conspiracy theory that I favor is that Oswald was a double agent in the employ of both the Castro and the CIA, which had made several attempts on Castro's life; and that Oswald killed Kennedy on behalf of Castro.

This would expalin why the CIA thwarted the release of the last several thousand Kennedy murder documents, the CIA public relations department couldn't take the embarrassment.
If one can be taught to believe absurdities, one can commit atrocities. --Voltaire

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Re: JFK Conspiracy Theories in SKEPTIC

Postby enoch arden » Mon Feb 26, 2018 8:10 pm

"Oswald killed Kennedy on behalf of Castro."

And the purpose was?
Last edited by enoch arden on Mon Feb 26, 2018 8:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: JFK Conspiracy Theories in SKEPTIC

Postby Tom Palven » Mon Feb 26, 2018 9:27 pm

enoch arden wrote:"Oswald killed Kennedy on behalf of Castro."

And the purpose was?


The Kennedy regime attacked Cuba in the Bay of Pigs invasion, and the CIA attempted to kill Castro several times.

The purpose was to stop the efforts of the Kennedy regime, and it seems to have worked. Oswald killed Kennedy and Castro died a natural death.

Just a conspiracy theory, for what it's worth.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assassina ... del_Castro
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Re: JFK Conspiracy Theories in SKEPTIC

Postby enoch arden » Mon Feb 26, 2018 10:53 pm

CIA continued Castro assassination attempts long after JFK died. In 1966 they tried to kill him using an exploding cigar. And what was the motive for RFK assassination? It is clear that the same people killed him who killed JFK. Presumably with the same purpose. What was it?

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Re: JFK Conspiracy Theories in SKEPTIC

Postby Tom Palven » Mon Feb 26, 2018 10:59 pm

enoch arden wrote:CIA continued Castro assassination attempts long after JFK died. In 1966 they tried to kill him using an exploding cigar. And what was the motive for RFK assassination? It is clear that the same people killed him who killed JFK. Presumably with the same purpose. What was it?


I don't know. It's probably best to ask Matthew Ellard, Agent 008.
If one can be taught to believe absurdities, one can commit atrocities. --Voltaire

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Re: JFK Conspiracy Theories in SKEPTIC

Postby Matthew Ellard » Tue Feb 27, 2018 4:12 am

enoch arden wrote:CIA continued Castro assassination attempts long after JFK died.

That's right. Tom Palven is a conspiracy theorist, like Gorgeous, who directly claims "the CIA runs the world" without a shred of actual evidence.

Just laugh at him.
:D

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Re: JFK Conspiracy Theories in SKEPTIC

Postby Tom Palven » Thu Mar 01, 2018 12:43 pm

Matthew Ellard wrote:
enoch arden wrote:CIA continued Castro assassination attempts long after JFK died.

That's right. Tom Palven is a conspiracy theorist, like Gorgeous, who directly claims "the CIA runs the world" without a shred of actual evidence.

Just laugh at him.
:D


There's an Associated Press article in the Florida Times-Union (Jacksonville) today that says "senior White House advisor" Jared Kushner has been stripped of a security clearance. The story is all over the media now:
https://www.bing.com/news/search?q=Jare ... &FORM=EWRE

I did a short web search and didn't find out who it is in the Deep State that issues security clearances.

If this is this something that you know right off the top of your head, Secret Agent 008, please share.

(If it's the Illuminati or the Masons just tell Gorgeous. I don't even want to know about it.)
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Re: JFK Conspiracy Theories in SKEPTIC

Postby Gord » Thu Mar 01, 2018 3:16 pm

Tom Palven wrote:I did a short web search and didn't find out who it is in the Deep State that issues security clearances.

Probably because you included the phrase "deep state", which would throw off any search for real-world information.

Try wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Security_ ... ted_States
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Re: JFK Conspiracy Theories in SKEPTIC

Postby Matthew Ellard » Thu Mar 01, 2018 9:51 pm

Tom Palven wrote:Jared Kushner has been stripped of a security clearance. I did a short web search and didn't find out who it is in the Deep State that issues security clearances. If this is this something that you know right off the top of your head, Secret Agent 008, please share.


You really are a total idiot. Stop reading conspiracy websites. :lol:

"John Kelly strips Jared Kushner of top-secret White House security clearance"
http://www.scmp.com/news/world/united-s ... cret-white

"Jared Kushner's security clearance status is John Kelly's decision, Trump says"
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/0 ... -decision/

"Trump: Kushner’s clearance up to chief of staff Kelly'
https://www.timesofisrael.com/trump-kus ... aff-kelly/

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Re: JFK Conspiracy Theories in SKEPTIC

Postby Poodle » Thu Mar 01, 2018 10:13 pm

As far as I understand it (and it's a UK viewpoint), Jared Kushner didn't have a security clearance to be stripped. All that's happened is the implementation of the ramifications of his extant state - no clearance, no view. I'm completely gobsmacked that he was allowed any access at all in the first place.

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Re: JFK Conspiracy Theories in SKEPTIC

Postby Matthew Ellard » Thu Mar 01, 2018 10:30 pm

Poodle wrote:As far as I understand it (and it's a UK viewpoint), Jared Kushner didn't have a security clearance to be stripped. All that's happened is the implementation of the ramifications of his extant state - no clearance, no view. I'm completely gobsmacked that he was allowed any access at all in the first place.


You got it.

Flynn's statement to Mueller was that Kushner was the senior Whitehouse official he worked with concerning his meetings with the Russians. Kushner was never going to get clearance so he was kept on interim clearance by the Whitehouse.

Trump still has the executive right to simply tell Kushner "top secrets" but a large portion of USA intelligence comes from other countries who will eventually withdraw their supply of info to the USA.

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Re: JFK Conspiracy Theories in SKEPTIC

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Thu Mar 01, 2018 10:45 pm

I think I heard some newshead say Kushner has clearance for "Secret" information, but not "Top Secret" which is needed to perform in his office. Not that the Son-in-Law of Trump should be held to such a standard.................
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Re: JFK Conspiracy Theories in SKEPTIC

Postby Poodle » Fri Mar 02, 2018 6:55 am

No - he had interim ticket because he was there. That's a 'pending investigation' and 'until we dig the dirt' thing. Now they've investigated and decided he can't have a clearance. It's not a matter of rescinding it - it never existed.

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Re: JFK Conspiracy Theories in SKEPTIC

Postby Tom Palven » Fri Mar 02, 2018 8:54 am

Gord wrote:
Tom Palven wrote:I did a short web search and didn't find out who it is in the Deep State that issues security clearances.


Try wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Security_ ... ted_States


As one would expect, the article didn't name people who issue security clearances, Gord, but I did learn this:

"Authority[edit]
The authority for classifying information and granting security clearances to access that information is found in executive orders (EOs) and US Federal law. USA's National Security Information (NSI) has been classified under EO 13526, but since January 10, 2017 the rules were modified by James Clapper as Security Executive Agent Directive 4 in the closing days of the Obama administration.[15] Information may be classified under this Order if a classification authority determines its unauthorized release could cause damage to the national defense or foreign relations of the United States. Information concerning nuclear weapons and fissile material may be classified under the Atomic Energy Act of 1954 (AEA). These clearances are only granted by the Department of Energy. The clearance process for access to NSI or AEA information is substantially aligned. Under EO 12968, the investigative and adjudicative guidelines for NSI and AEA clearances are identical. This enables reciprocity between NSI and AEA clearances, although some exceptions exist.
USA's Executive Order 12968's standards are binding on all of the USA's government agencies that handle classified information, but it allows certain agency heads to establish Special Access Programs (SAPs) with additional, but not duplicative, investigative and adjudicative requirements. The Intelligence Community's Sensitive Compartmented Information (SCI) control systems are a family of SAPs, and SCI eligibility must be granted prior to accessing any particular control system or compartment (which may require additional investigation or adjudication). SCI eligibility policy is described in Intelligence Community Directive 704 and its implementing policy guidance [It should be noted that within the Intelligence Community, the access to SCI information is far more common than "Collateral Top Secret information," and therefore operatives will routinely include SCI in a TS product, just to ensure they do not have to meet the "cradle-to-grave" accountability requirements of Collateral TS information.] Any additional clearance measures used by SAPs must be approved by the Office of Management and Budget, which has generally limited such measures to polygraphs, exclusion of persons with non-US immediate family members, requiring more frequent reinvestigations, and requiring annual updates to security questionnaires."

Note the name James Clapper, who as Director of National Intelligence in charge of all 17 secret police agencies, had testified before Congress that the NSA did not collect intelligence on a single US citizen, and then note what Edward Snowden said in this Wikipedia article on Clapper, below:

"When Edward Snowden was asked during a January 26, 2014, television interview in Moscow on what the decisive moment was or what caused him to whistle-blow, he replied: “Sort of the breaking point was seeing the director of national intelligence, James Clapper, directly lie under oath to Congress. ... Seeing that really meant for me there was no going back.”[46]
Responses[edit]
On June 5, 2013, The Guardian published the first of the global surveillance documents leaked by Edward Snowden, including a top secret court order showing that the NSA had collected phone records from over 120 million Verizon subscribers.[47]"

So, effectively, what I have learned is that deep state apparatchiki vet people for security clearances here in the Fourth Reich, just as one would suppose that deep state apparatchiki vetted people for security clearances in the Third Reich.

Note that James Clapper lied to Congress in 2013 and was involved in vetting security applications in 2017.

The deep state wolves are guarding the sheep pen.
If one can be taught to believe absurdities, one can commit atrocities. --Voltaire

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More lies from Tom Palven

Postby Matthew Ellard » Sat Mar 03, 2018 2:59 am

Tom Palven wrote: Note the name James Clapper, who as Director of National Intelligence in charge of all 17 secret police agencies,
1) The Director of National Intelligence is not in charge of anything other that coordinating the intelligence agencies into sharing information. The CIA has its own director. The FBI has its own director and does not respond to the DNI. Tom simply lied

2) There is not one police force who responds to the Director of National Intelligence. The US Coast Guard is not a secret police Tom simply lied, again



Tom Palven wrote: The deep state wolves are guarding the sheep pen.
Tom is spamming his Russian talk points because the CIA and FBI have been investigating the Russian influence on the 2016 US elections and the Russians are trying to discredit the FBI and CIA.


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