JFK Conspiracy Theories in SKEPTIC

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Dave Reitzes
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JFK Conspiracy Theories in SKEPTIC

Postby Dave Reitzes » Tue Oct 01, 2013 5:06 am

Hi, all.

My name is Dave Reitzes. I contributed the cover story, "JFK Conspiracy Theories at 50: How the Skeptics Got It Wrong and Why It Matters," to the latest issue of SKEPTIC. As a big fan of SKEPTIC and the Skeptics Society, I am very grateful for the opportunity to reach the magazine's highly perspicacious and inquisitive readership, even though there will undoubtedly be many who take issue with my conclusions.

I would be pleased to answer any reasonable questions SKEPTIC readers may have about the article. (Unreasonable and/or off-topic questions will be evaluated on a case-by-case basis.)

***

NOVEMBER 26 ADDENDUM:

My article is now available online:

http://www.skeptic.com/reading_room/jfk ... t-matters/

***

If anyone is interested in reading more about what the skeptical methodology of people like Michael Shermer and Carl Sagan can teach us about conspiracy theories, please check out a web article of mine, "JFK at the Fringe of Reason: Pseudoscience and Pseudohistory in the John F. Kennedy Assassination":

http://www.jfk-online.com/jfk-fringe.html

Thanks. I hope to hear from you.

Dave
Last edited by Dave Reitzes on Tue Nov 26, 2013 8:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: JFK Conspiracy Theories in SKEPTIC

Postby Matthew Ellard » Tue Oct 01, 2013 5:44 am

Dave Reitzes wrote: Thanks. I hope to hear from you.

I read your paper. I see that you have copped flak from conspiracy theorists.
http://jfkcountercoup.wordpress.com/res ... of-reason/

I haven't anything useful to add. I can't remember any JFK conspiracy theorists posting here at this forum. However, the JREF forum seems to be a magnet for JFK conspiracy theorists......the really stupid ones......
http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=254176

I have the "joy" of arguing against the holocaust deniers here, however that cult seems to be coming to and end. There haven't been any posts for a fortnight.

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Re: JFK Conspiracy Theories in SKEPTIC

Postby scrmbldggs » Tue Oct 01, 2013 6:05 am

Yeah, all we know is Gord didn't do it. :-P
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Re: JFK Conspiracy Theories in SKEPTIC

Postby nmblum88 » Tue Oct 01, 2013 6:26 am

scrmbldggs wrote:Yeah, all we know is Gord didn't do it. :-P


IF you keep sticking your tongue out, it might get bitten off. (Have I got it wrong? Is :-P something other than "sticks out tongue" (presumably in some perky, adorable way)?
I have no opinion on the article in question
1) because I haven't read it, and
2) gee... I dunno.. it seems to me that when someone says "I have nothing to add." he shouldn't then add anything and particularly not referencing how stupid people who might have something to say, are.

But that's neither here nor there... not here, not anymore.

My own question is, WHY, not having read what Reitzes. had to say in his article, is there so much hostility toward him?

Or is the Forum now increasingly like a fish tank, where the last fish thrown is attacked as the enemy, eaten alive in savage attacks, causing the previous antagonists to become unified in their murderous hatred of the newcomer?
Sorta like "Lord of the Fish."

Norma

P.S. And it has a kind of "tea partyish" ring to it.... a sort of non-specific, permeating hatred of almost anything except their own exceptionalism (based on nothing whatever). .
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Your fanciful card games, movie sojourns and exciting overseas trips, that all take place within the four walls of an aged care retirement home, do not suggest your own children offered you the care, I gave my parents."

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Re: JFK Conspiracy Theories in SKEPTIC

Postby scrmbldggs » Tue Oct 01, 2013 6:54 am

Oy, if it seemed I directed hostility towards the OP, please tell me where and how and I'll try to make amends.

Other than that, I merely joined the part of Matthew's mention that it seems there haven't been any JFK conspiracy theorists around lately, and (hopefully) playfully pointed to the most recent thread touching on the subject at all.

In my own, most likely, clumsy way. But am always grateful for tips on improvement (and hope I can master it). : )
Hi, Io the lurker.

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Re: JFK Conspiracy Theories in SKEPTIC

Postby nmblum88 » Tue Oct 01, 2013 7:28 am

scrmbldggs wrote:Oy, if it seemed I directed hostility towards the OP, please tell me where and how and I'll try to make amends.

Other than that, I merely joined part of Matthew's mention that it seems there haven't been any JFK conspiracy nuts around lately, and (hopefully) playfully pointed to the most recent thread touching on the subject at all.

In my own, most likely, clumsy way. But am always up for, and grateful for tips on, improvement (if I can master it). : )

Admirably amenable of you.
But unnecessarily so.
Because contrary to what you imagine, I don't really see it as my job, nor is it my intention to improve you.
Especially as none of my own remarks (NONE) come from a place of perfection.
Far from it.
And I'm sure you're fine just as you are, anyway, certainly needing no input from me.
But- sorry for the repetition - when a poster says "I have nothing to add" and then adds what is essentially a negative reflection on others, it does seem rather odd to me.
Or perhaps less odd than like one of those business meetings that are so odious because everyone feels that to say nothing means missing a chance to be star, memorable for perspicacity.


Here's the thing: do you have something to say about Reitzes' article on conspiracy theory related to the assassination of JFK?
Having yourself read it?
Not having read the article myself (I am, parenthetically, no longer interested in that "conspiracy" and will probably never read it), I have nothing to say about it, but I assume you, having joined the fray, do.

I just came home from having seen a loud and long, and visually and audio wise, distinctive concert film..,
After the showing, the exiting crowd was lively, excited, everyone seemed to be speaking at once...
It was fun, and interesting to be there to hear it all.
Some of the remarks seemed remarkably more perceptive than others (my opinion).
But the one thing they all had in common was that everyone in the lobby had ACTUALLY SEEN THE FILM.
Seems minimal to me for conversations sake..
Basic.
So to turn the table, should you find such a posit unreasonable, perhaps YOU could teach me why, and thus improve ME...

Norma
Skepticism:
" Norma, you poor sad lonely alcoholic. You entire life is devoted to interrupting other people's posts on this forum, regardless of the topic, to tell them what's wrong with them. The irony is, here you are doing it again, with this very post.
Your fanciful card games, movie sojourns and exciting overseas trips, that all take place within the four walls of an aged care retirement home, do not suggest your own children offered you the care, I gave my parents."

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Re: JFK Conspiracy Theories in SKEPTIC

Postby scrmbldggs » Tue Oct 01, 2013 8:19 am

No, I haven't read the piece either. And I didn't join any fray but rather hitched a ride on ye olde welcome wagon.
Hi, Io the lurker.

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Re: JFK Conspiracy Theories in SKEPTIC

Postby kennyc » Tue Oct 01, 2013 10:53 am

Dave Reitzes wrote:Hi, all.

My name is Dave Reitzes. I contributed the cover story, "JFK Conspiracy Theories at 50: How the Skeptics Got It Wrong and Why It Matters," to the latest issue of SKEPTIC. As a big fan of SKEPTIC and the Skeptics Society, I am very grateful for the opportunity to reach the magazine's highly perspicacious and inquisitive readership, even though there will undoubtedly be many who take issue with my conclusions.

I would be pleased to answer any reasonable questions SKEPTIC readers may have about the article. (Unreasonable and/or off-topic questions will be evaluated on a case-by-case basis.)

If anyone is interested in reading more about what the skeptical methodology of people like Michael Shermer and Carl Sagan can teach us about conspiracy theories, please check out a web article of mine, "JFK at the Fringe of Reason: Pseudoscience and Pseudohistory in the John F. Kennedy Assassination":

http://www.jfk-online.com/jfk-fringe.html

Thanks. I hope to hear from you.

Dave


Welcome Dave, I have not read you JFK story but just read/skimmed your web article. Nice work.

I started a thread a few days ago about the 50th anniversary of the JFK assassination.
viewtopic.php?f=72&t=21518
Last edited by kennyc on Tue Oct 01, 2013 10:56 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: JFK Conspiracy Theories in SKEPTIC

Postby kennyc » Tue Oct 01, 2013 10:55 am

scrmbldggs wrote:Yeah, all we know is Gord didn't do it. :-P



So he SAYS. :D
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Re: JFK Conspiracy Theories in SKEPTIC

Postby Tom Palven » Tue Oct 01, 2013 1:13 pm

Even if one accepts that Oswald was the lone killer and there was no Mafia, CIA, or other US government involvement, there may have been a small conspiracy if, in fact, Fidel Castro egged Oswald on. It is supposedly factual that Oswald was a communist sympathizer who had been to Russia and Cuba and that the CIA attempted to murder Castro a couple of times, and the US supported the Bay of Pigs invasion of Cuba and the strafing of Havana.

Those facts, along with the fact that the US still does not allow free trade with Cuba, although Americans are free to trade with the communist or semi-communist countries of Vietnam, China, Russia, etc, at least seems to point to Castro's approving of, if not aiding and abetting, Oswald's actions. Maybe one day Cuban documents will reveal how much Castro knew and when he knew it, or what the CIA suspects his involvement was, if any.
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Re: JFK Conspiracy Theories in SKEPTIC

Postby Gord » Tue Oct 01, 2013 4:46 pm

I read it, it was pretty interesting!

The rest of you should read it. Now. Go! Do it! :shakefist:
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Re: JFK Conspiracy Theories in SKEPTIC

Postby nmblum88 » Tue Oct 01, 2013 5:23 pm

Tom-Palven wrote:Even if one accepts that Oswald was the lone killer and there was no Mafia, CIA, or other US government involvement, there may have been a small conspiracy if, in fact, Fidel Castro egged Oswald on. It is supposedly factual that Oswald was a communist sympathizer who had been to Russia and Cuba and that the CIA attempted to murder Castro a couple of times, and the US supported the Bay of Pigs invasion of Cuba and the strafing of Havana.

Those facts, along with the fact that the US still does not allow free trade with Cuba, although Americans are free to trade with the communist or semi-communist countries of Vietnam, China, Russia, etc, at least seems to point to Castro's approving of, if not aiding and abetting, Oswald's actions. Maybe one day Cuban documents will reveal how much Castro knew and when he knew it, or what the CIA suspects his involvement was, if any.


Do you really think that because U.S. media has presented - at least after he nationalized the telephone company, in Cuba, thus excising the American corporation that had held the monopoly for years (mostly in the interest of gambling (odds and information) )- Castro as a buffoon that that is actually the case?
I hope not.
It's not a good omen for conspiracy theorists, when one of their own buys into patently manipulative (read conspiratorial) propaganda.
Castro did not keep power in a depleted and virtually starving Cuba by being either stupid or unappreciated by the people who had helped him vanquish the U.S. supported Batista..

Castro knew enough about the ethos of mid 20th century America to know that killing Kennedy would be an exercise in futility, bringing about a terrible retribution and a worse American Presidency after the fact.
Which is what happened anyway....
Johnson's policy toward Cuba, the Cubans (AND the Castro who had made his ascendency to the American Presidency possible, according to that scenario) was, if anything, crueler and more vindictive than anything that had transpired under Kennedy.
But all that is only repeating nonsense that sounds no better than what is the stuff of gossip.
And that is that it is unlikely that any American involved in that "conspiracy" could have resisted spilling the beans, somehow, somewhere... (for money certainly, but more for the pride of accomplishment).
And Castro,? Above all, a Latino male?
Keep a secret?
About an event so steeped in machismo?
A little Don Quixote vanquishing the mighty ruler of the (more or less) Free World?
And getting away with it?
C'mon.
Of course, Castro still lives.
And although he is not posting here, he MIGHT, MIGHT, on his deathbed free Gord from the unjust and flimsy rumors by screaming.."I did it!! I did it!! I not only killed John Kennedy , I made him promise to keep supplying me with food, and money, and military materials, even in death.....
"While I have kept - it's been 50 freaking years!! - providing him with those Cuban cigars he loved (loves) so much."
(Now there's a conspiracy worthy of a long haul.)


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Skepticism:
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Your fanciful card games, movie sojourns and exciting overseas trips, that all take place within the four walls of an aged care retirement home, do not suggest your own children offered you the care, I gave my parents."

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Re: JFK Conspiracy Theories in SKEPTIC

Postby Daedalus » Tue Oct 01, 2013 5:28 pm

Tom Plaven wrote:It is supposedly factual...


Greatest.
Phrase.
Ever.
"Propaganda is a monologue which seeks not a response, but an echo." (W.H. Auden)
"Given time and plenty of paper, philosophers can prove anything." (Robert Heinlein)
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Re: JFK Conspiracy Theories in SKEPTIC

Postby nmblum88 » Tue Oct 01, 2013 6:04 pm

Daedalus wrote:
Tom Plaven wrote:It is supposedly factual...


Greatest.
Phrase.
Ever.



Not to me.
And funny that you of all the modest people, should take the time, and use your formidable energy to remark on that phrase.

It is in fact nothing compared to your own "DIE, SHITHEAD!!" as an example of inspired phrase making.

But rest assured: it may take a long while before anyone can come up to challenge your supremacy as not only a phrase make, but a taste maker as well.


Norma Manna Blum...
Skepticism:
" Norma, you poor sad lonely alcoholic. You entire life is devoted to interrupting other people's posts on this forum, regardless of the topic, to tell them what's wrong with them. The irony is, here you are doing it again, with this very post.
Your fanciful card games, movie sojourns and exciting overseas trips, that all take place within the four walls of an aged care retirement home, do not suggest your own children offered you the care, I gave my parents."

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Re: JFK Conspiracy Theories in SKEPTIC

Postby Daedalus » Tue Oct 01, 2013 6:13 pm

nmblum wrote:
Daedalus wrote:
Tom Plaven wrote:It is supposedly factual...


Greatest.
Phrase.
Ever.



Not to me.
And funny that you of all the modest people, should take the time, and use your formidable energy to remark on that phrase.

It is in fact nothing compared to your own "DIE, SHITHEAD!!" as an example of inspired phrase making.

But rest assured: it may take a long while before anyone can come up to challenge your supremacy as not only a phrase make, but a taste maker as well.


Norma Manna Blum...


Image
"Propaganda is a monologue which seeks not a response, but an echo." (W.H. Auden)
"Given time and plenty of paper, philosophers can prove anything." (Robert Heinlein)
"The map is not the territory." (Alfred Korzybski)
“You’re in the desert, you see a tortoise lying on its back, struggling, and you’re not helping — why is that?" (Bladerunner)

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Re: JFK Conspiracy Theories in SKEPTIC

Postby Matthew Ellard » Tue Oct 01, 2013 10:54 pm

nmblum wrote: gee... I dunno.. it seems to me that when someone says "I have nothing to add." he shouldn't then add anything and particularly not referencing how stupid people who might have something to say, are.
Norma. You are an idiot.

I said I had nothing to add but informed him that JREF had a very active JFK conspiracy forum and linked him to it. I was helping him with information relevant to his paper on idiots & JFK. Did you bother to read his paper?

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Re: JFK Conspiracy Theories in SKEPTIC

Postby TheUltimateBlitz1 » Tue Oct 01, 2013 11:55 pm

Tom-Palven wrote:Even if one accepts that Oswald was the lone killer and there was no Mafia, CIA, or other US government involvement, there may have been a small conspiracy if, in fact, Fidel Castro egged Oswald on. It is supposedly factual that Oswald was a communist sympathizer who had been to Russia and Cuba and that the CIA attempted to murder Castro a couple of times, and the US supported the Bay of Pigs invasion of Cuba and the strafing of Havana.


Those facts, along with the fact that the US still does not allow free trade with Cuba, although Americans are free to trade with the communist or semi-communist countries of Vietnam, China, Russia, etc, at least seems to point to Castro's approving of, if not aiding and abetting, Oswald's actions. Maybe one day Cuban documents will reveal how much Castro knew and when he knew it, or what the CIA suspects his involvement was, if any.


In any assassination there will always be a conspiracy.

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Re: JFK Conspiracy Theories in SKEPTIC

Postby nmblum88 » Wed Oct 02, 2013 1:38 am

Matthew Ellard wrote:
nmblum wrote: gee... I dunno.. it seems to me that when someone says "I have nothing to add." he shouldn't then add anything and particularly not referencing how stupid people who might have something to say, are.
Norma. You are an idiot.

I said I had nothing to add but informed him that JREF had a very active JFK conspiracy forum and linked him to it. I was helping him with information relevant to his paper on idiots & JFK. Did you bother to read his paper?


Now, now, Matthew... I am many things, most of them terrible, I'm certain.
But I am hardly an idiot.
And if I were, you are hardly equipped to judge levels of intelligence..
And making such an assessment only makes you sound like a a munchkin quidnunc , the bookkeeper who knows the price of everything and the value of nothing.


NMB
Skepticism:
" Norma, you poor sad lonely alcoholic. You entire life is devoted to interrupting other people's posts on this forum, regardless of the topic, to tell them what's wrong with them. The irony is, here you are doing it again, with this very post.
Your fanciful card games, movie sojourns and exciting overseas trips, that all take place within the four walls of an aged care retirement home, do not suggest your own children offered you the care, I gave my parents."

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Re: JFK Conspiracy Theories in SKEPTIC

Postby Matthew Ellard » Wed Oct 02, 2013 2:57 am

nmblum wrote: Now, now, Matthew... I am many things, most of them terrible, I'm certain. But I am hardly an idiot.
No. You are an idiot. You didn't read the paper but posted anyway, disrupting yet another thread. It's getting really boring.

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Re: JFK Conspiracy Theories in SKEPTIC

Postby Dave Reitzes » Wed Oct 02, 2013 7:10 pm

Matthew Ellard wrote:
Dave Reitzes wrote: Thanks. I hope to hear from you.

I read your paper. I see that you have copped flak from conspiracy theorists.
http://jfkcountercoup.wordpress.com/res ... of-reason/

I haven't anything useful to add. I can't remember any JFK conspiracy theorists posting here at this forum. However, the JREF forum seems to be a magnet for JFK conspiracy theorists......the really stupid ones......
http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=254176

I have the "joy" of arguing against the holocaust deniers here, however that cult seems to be coming to and end. There haven't been any posts for a fortnight.


Thanks for the response.

Devout conspiracy believers are not likely to be happy with my article. A few other early reactions can be found here:

http://www.ctka.net/2013/flipflop.html

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index ... opic=20430

Dave

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Re: JFK Conspiracy Theories in SKEPTIC

Postby Gord » Wed Oct 02, 2013 7:57 pm

Dave Reitzes wrote:http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=20430

:heh: Wow. Beehive of activity there!

I see a poster there named Robert Prudhomme -- that name seems very familial, but I can't figure out where I know it from....
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Re: JFK Conspiracy Theories in SKEPTIC

Postby Shen1986 » Thu Oct 03, 2013 6:07 am

When I hear the name Prudhomme this comes into my mind a movie with Christopher Lambert:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Resurrection_(1999_film)

However there is a chemist Robert Prudhomme that I found:

Prud'homme, Robert E. - Department of Chemistry - FAS / Université

Its in Montreal:

Robert Prud'homme | Université de Montréal

Maybe or maybe that are two Robert Prudhommes??

This is just a quick google search..
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Re: JFK Conspiracy Theories in SKEPTIC

Postby Gord » Thu Oct 03, 2013 7:27 pm

Hmmmm. Doesn't seem to jog my memory.

Maybe it was something I read recently....

Gord wrote:...familial....

Not familial; familiar. :lol:
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Re: JFK Conspiracy Theories in SKEPTIC

Postby Flash » Sat Oct 05, 2013 12:16 am

Oh {!#%@}! I come back after an impromptu and a well deserved vacations and nothing has changed. Sweet Pea commands one thread and a couple of cunts with the help of the Joker have taken over the rest of this esteemed forum. Norma is under constant attack and the mindless culprits really have nothing interesting to say... nothing. Pardon me, but the supahh skeptics are running things here now.

Oh wait, what have I done. Norma will get some breathing space now because the {!#%@} pests and I mean like crazed fleas are going to jump on me. And the Joker will certainly have a funny comment. Such is life. :mrgreen:

Just doing my sacred duty as a {!#%@} stirrer. Bringing you back to life you bunch of drowsy, stoned dopes, OK?

BTW, Jessie Ventura just wrote a book about the Kennedy assassination where he points out that he himself, and he used to be a sniper in the army, could not take that shot from the Book Depository at a stationary target, never mind the moving one.

He says that he doesn't know who killed Kennedy but he is pretty sure that it wasn't Oswald.
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Re: JFK Conspiracy Theories in SKEPTIC

Postby Gord » Sat Oct 05, 2013 12:45 am

Flash wrote:... a couple of cunts with the help of the Joker have taken over the rest of this esteemed forum....

I haven't taken over anything!

By the way, calling Pyrhho a {!#%@} may not be the best tactic. :heh:
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Re: JFK Conspiracy Theories in SKEPTIC

Postby kennyc » Sat Oct 05, 2013 1:14 am

Gord wrote:
Flash wrote:... a couple of cunts with the help of the Joker have taken over the rest of this esteemed forum....

I haven't taken over anything!

By the way, calling Pyrhho a {!#%@} may not be the best tactic. :heh:


Are the Republicans trying to shut down the forum???

;)
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Re: JFK Conspiracy Theories in SKEPTIC

Postby fromthehills » Sat Oct 05, 2013 3:00 am

Flash wrote:
BTW, Jessie Ventura just wrote a book about the Kennedy assassination where he points out that he himself, and he used to be a sniper in the army, could not take that shot from the Book Depository at a stationary target, never mind the moving one.

He says that he doesn't know who killed Kennedy but he is pretty sure that it wasn't Oswald.


Ventura was a Navy Seal, but whatever.

If I were told only about the rifle ( caliber, ballistics, and quality), the angle, and the shooting record of the gunman, I would be incredulous, as well. That's still not the entire story, but I know what the argument is.

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Re: JFK Conspiracy Theories in SKEPTIC

Postby Flash » Sat Oct 05, 2013 4:11 am

I am not a shooting expert at all. I just saw Jesse Ventura on The Big Picture, a Thom Harmann show on RT and that's what he said.
Thom seemed to take him seriously. I just can't see why Ventura would lie about or exaggerate the fact that it wouldn't be easy at all to hit a moving target at that distance. And remember that Oswald was not a marksman.

This thing isn't going away any time soon because of problems like these, because Jack Kennedy had so many enemies and because the Warren commission botched the job.
Last edited by Flash on Sat Oct 05, 2013 4:21 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: JFK Conspiracy Theories in SKEPTIC

Postby Flash » Sat Oct 05, 2013 4:19 am

Flash wrote:
...
a couple of cunts with the help of the Joker have taken over the rest of this esteemed forum...
.
Gord:
I haven't taken over anything!

How do you know I am talking about you? Gord the lovable, the cute Gord from the frozen wastes of the north right at Portage and Prairie? (a Canadian reference). I wouldn't call you a {!#%@} Gord. No way, not me. :mrgreen:
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Re: JFK Conspiracy Theories in SKEPTIC

Postby Matthew Ellard » Sat Oct 05, 2013 4:32 am

Flash wrote:Oh wait, what have I done. Norma will get some breathing space now because the {!#%@} pests and I mean like crazed fleas are going to jump on me. And the Joker will certainly have a funny comment. Such is life. :mrgreen:


Flash. Norma didn't bother reading the paper, that Dave asked members here to read, in the opening post. I did. Norma attacked me for supplying information that was asked for. Norma disrupted the thread with an insult against me for no reason.

You didn't know this because you didn't read this thread from the beginning in the same way Norma didn't read the paper supplied in the opening post. Norma has no interest in why Dave Reitzes started this thread and has made no comments on it. I am linking Dave's paper on JREF as he is unable to as he is a new member. JREF has a large JFK conspiracy thread. That is what I informed Dave.

I am getting bored with Norma continually attacking Kenny, Deadalus and myself and disrupting threads and ignoring the opening post. Kenny can't even see Norma's attacks but Norma still posts them. I would like to see Norma restricted to "community". However as that is not on the cards I'm moving away from this forum and spending more time on JREF where Gawdzilla and other older members have gone..

You may say "Well I have as much right to comment on other members as you do in this thread Matthew" however Norma didn't insult you in this thread. She insulted me and I'm getting sick of it. Your name was never mentioned. You chose to jump in.

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Re: JFK Conspiracy Theories in SKEPTIC

Postby Flash » Sat Oct 05, 2013 5:00 am

Dear Matthew.
Let me assure you that I have a lot of respect for you here and read your posts with interest and that therefore you are not the {!#%@} I so carelessly mentioned earlier. (Holly {!#%@}, if it goes like this I will have to tell almost everybody personally that he/she is not the {!#%@} I referred to... almost everybody)

With regard to Norma, I too have been insulted by Norma. No big deal, really... I still like to read her posts and you know what Matthew... She and you and the rest, even the two cunts add a bit of spice and color to this often bland internet landscape. I really wouldn't worry about the few insults, you know. Don't take it personally. It's only internet and we are writing to have fun, aren't we? :mrgreen:
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Re: JFK Conspiracy Theories in SKEPTIC

Postby Dave Reitzes » Sat Oct 05, 2013 5:22 am

Gord wrote:I read it, it was pretty interesting!

The rest of you should read it. Now. Go! Do it! :shakefist:


Thanks, Gord. If anyone is interested, tune in and check out my world premiere on the radio waves:

http://www.newstalk770.com/2013/10/01/a ... w-sept-30/

<QUOTE ON>---------------------

Hour 1 from Monday’s show, including our interview with JFK assassination researcher David Reitzes about his Skeptic magazine cover story on 50 years of JFK conspiracy theories.

<QUOTE OFF>--------------------


Dave

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Re: JFK Conspiracy Theories in SKEPTIC

Postby Tom Palven » Sat Oct 05, 2013 10:34 am

fromthehills wrote:
Flash wrote:
BTW, Jessie Ventura just wrote a book about the Kennedy assassination where he points out that he himself, and he used to be a sniper in the army, could not take that shot from the Book Depository at a stationary target, never mind the moving one.

He says that he doesn't know who killed Kennedy but he is pretty sure that it wasn't Oswald.


Ventura was a Navy Seal, but whatever.

If I were told only about the rifle ( caliber, ballistics, and quality), the angle, and the shooting record of the gunman, I would be incredulous, as well. That's still not the entire story, but I know what the argument is.


I can't picture Oswald's line of sight or the distance, but Wiki says a bullet found on John Connally's (who had been shot) hospital gurney, and bullet fragments from Kennedy matched Oswald's rifle, for what that's worth.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_F._Ke ... assination
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Re: JFK Conspiracy Theories in SKEPTIC

Postby Daedalus » Sat Oct 05, 2013 3:34 pm

Flash wrote:Dear Matthew.
Let me assure you that I have a lot of respect for you here and read your posts with interest and that therefore you are not the {!#%@} I so carelessly mentioned earlier. (Holly {!#%@}, if it goes like this I will have to tell almost everybody personally that he/she is not the {!#%@} I referred to... almost everybody)

With regard to Norma, I too have been insulted by Norma. No big deal, really... I still like to read her posts and you know what Matthew... She and you and the rest, even the two cunts add a bit of spice and color to this often bland internet landscape. I really wouldn't worry about the few insults, you know. Don't take it personally. It's only internet and we are writing to have fun, aren't we? :mrgreen:


You really need to learn how to let go Flash... :mrgreen:
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Re: JFK Conspiracy Theories in SKEPTIC

Postby Flash » Sun Oct 06, 2013 1:31 am

Tom Palven wrote:
I can't picture Oswald's line of sight or the distance, but Wiki says a bullet found on John Connally's (who had been shot) hospital gurney, and bullet fragments from Kennedy matched Oswald's rifle, for what that's worth.


You Tom probably know more about this than I. What do you think, was the bullets analysis well done or are there suspitions, you know... and...
Let's ask Dave Reitzes about the bullet. Dave, if you are still around, was the analysis of the bullet fragments reliable or not in your opinion?

Also, when I watch the film of Jack Ruby shooting Oswald and knowing that he, at that point, had only a few months to live, and these pathetic FBI agents holding Oswald as if they wanted to make him, and did in fact, a target, all kinds of bells start ringing. And then the Warren and the FBI botched their investigations. To paraphrase Graucho Marx I would say; "who are you going to believe the Warren commission or your own eyes?"
Last edited by Flash on Sun Oct 06, 2013 1:46 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: JFK Conspiracy Theories in SKEPTIC

Postby Flash » Sun Oct 06, 2013 1:38 am

Daedalus wrote:
You really need to learn how to let go Flash... :mrgreen:

OK, peace then. ;)
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Re: JFK Conspiracy Theories in SKEPTIC

Postby Dave Reitzes » Mon Oct 07, 2013 5:08 am

Flash wrote:Tom Palven wrote:
I can't picture Oswald's line of sight or the distance, but Wiki says a bullet found on John Connally's (who had been shot) hospital gurney, and bullet fragments from Kennedy matched Oswald's rifle, for what that's worth.


You Tom probably know more about this than I. What do you think, was the bullets analysis well done or are there suspitions, you know... and...
Let's ask Dave Reitzes about the bullet. Dave, if you are still around, was the analysis of the bullet fragments reliable or not in your opinion?

Also, when I watch the film of Jack Ruby shooting Oswald and knowing that he, at that point, had only a few months to live, and these pathetic FBI agents holding Oswald as if they wanted to make him, and did in fact, a target, all kinds of bells start ringing. And then the Warren and the FBI botched their investigations. To paraphrase Graucho Marx I would say; "who are you going to believe the Warren commission or your own eyes?"



I address this in my article. One nearly intact bullet and numerous small fragments were recovered. The nearly intact bullet and the two largest fragments were positively identified, via unique ballistic markings as distinctive as fingerprints, as having been fired from the rifle belonging to Lee Harvey Oswald, to the exclusion of all other weapons.

If you visit the Sixth Floor Museum in the old Book Depository building, you can stand in the window next to the one where Oswald fired the shots. These were not difficult shots, especially for a highly trained ex-Marine like Oswald using a rifle with a telescopic sight (and he even managed to miss one of the three shots completely).

If you can tune out all the endlessly contradictory eyewitnesses, rumors, speculation, and sensationalism that envelop this case, you will find that the forensic evidence is as clear as could be: the authenticated autopsy photos and X-rays show that JFK was killed by two shots fired from above and behind him; forensic evidence shows the shots came from the rifle belonging to Lee Harvey Oswald, who fled the area, picked up a revolver, killed the first police officer he encountered, and tried to kill another one while resisting arrest.

Where the bullet fragments are concerned, the Warren Commission retained forensic experts who proved they were fired from Oswald's rifle. An independent evaluation by the FBI confirmed this. 15 years later, the House Select Committee on Assassinations hired independent, world-class forensic experts to reevaluate the evidence; they reaffirmed the conclusions of the WC experts and the FBI. Utilizing the technology of neutron activation analysis, they found even more conclusive evidence that all of the extant fragments were fired from Oswald's rifle.

I can't post URLs here, but if you go to my site (jfk-online.com) and go to the "JFK Assassination Links" page, you can read the full House Committee report that verified the WC's findings with state-of-the-art science, plus links to more recent examinations of the assassination, like Dale Myers' remarkable, peer-reviewed 3D computer model of what.happened in Dealey Plaza.

Doubters also might agree to meet me halfway and read my article.

Dave

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Re: JFK Conspiracy Theories in SKEPTIC

Postby moth1ne » Mon Oct 07, 2013 7:06 am

Good article but maybe pick a different background color... hurtin ma eyes mayne...
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Re: JFK Conspiracy Theories in SKEPTIC

Postby TheUltimateBlitz1 » Tue Oct 08, 2013 1:19 am

Is it still possible to get on the JREF forums, tried getting in a few months ago and the sign in didn't work. And by the way I do have to see Norma's posts are mostly ramblings about a small thing someone said instead of the actual topic. And Flash this isn't everyone attacking Norma this thing goes both ways and everyone is allowed to say what they want to say, people don't get along.

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Re: JFK Conspiracy Theories in SKEPTIC

Postby Flash » Tue Oct 08, 2013 4:20 am

Thank you Dave Reitzes. I am not a Kennedy conspiracy nut. I just don't have the time to waste on this. I respect your view and believe it. Equally, I don't know about Jessse Ventura's book. I would have to read it.

Only, the assassination of Oswald and that strange character Jack Ruby who did it are problematic for me. I don't think Ruby's shooting can be easily dismissed as an act of a deeply patriotic man who loved his president too much. ;)
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