9/11 Truthers are Dummies

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9/11 Truthers are Dummies

Postby equestrian » Fri Sep 28, 2012 4:49 pm

All conspiracy theories (C/T) [I guess with the exception of Elinoff’s 33, http://www.opednews.com/Diary/33-Conspi ... 4-476.html] can be reduced to a supposed discrepancy or anomaly in one official record or another.

To the conspiracy theorists the holes in an “official story” are some kind of truth that conspirators are trying to cover up. However, because theorists rarely if ever have any coherent beginning-to-end narrative of what they think happened, the perceived discrepancies constitute the entire basis of their arguments.

What the conspiracy theorists consistently ignore (and rarely does anyone point out) is how simple it would be for the criminals to change or falsify the alleged discrepancy or anomaly. The act of doing so would be trivial compared to the magnitude of other acts the theorists claim the conspirators committed.

September 11, 2001
It’s getting harder these days to avoid gullible progressive Democrats telling ludicrous fairy tales about 9/11.
MoveOn, WeAreChange, WorldCan’tWait and the 9/11 Truth movements have constructed an elaborately woven web of delusions and unsubstantiated hearsay about the events of 9/11 to the extent that a number of otherwise rational Democrats have actually fallen under their spell.

These theories come in every variety, but all reach essentially the same conclusion: that the U.S. government, or some shadowy group that controls it, organized the attacks as part of a master plan for global domination.
“Blaming some conspiracy within our government for the horrific attacks of September 11 mars the memories of all those lost on that day. There were errors and missteps in our government's response, to be sure, but the performance of our public servants was, on the whole heroic, not destructive.
Any explanation for the tragedy of September 11 must start and end with the facts. Those of us who live in the real world use the methods of science, the protocols of investigation, and the dictates of logic [to reject any government New World Order conspiracy]." (Debunking the 9/11 Myths: Special Report James Meigs, Popular Mechanics)


According to most paranoid theorists, the smoking gun of 9/11 can be found on the Project for a New America (PNAC) website:
A plan written in 2000, entitled “Rebuilding America’s Defenses: Strategies, Forces and Resources for a New Century,” The treatise clearly showed that members of the Bush administration had planned to take military control of the Gulf region one way or another, long before the attacks of 9/11.

The PNAC website openly calls for a “transformation” of the U.S. military into an imperialistic force of global domination but goes on to note there was a problem: The American people would have to go along with the idea and so the “The process of transformation,” the plan said, “is likely to be a long one, absent some catastrophic and catalyzing event—like a new Pearl Harbor.”

The Truthers have adopted that phrase as their mantra: like a new Pearl Harbor…like a new Pearl Harbor….like 9/11.

To them, there is no question that 9/11 constituted a catastrophic and catalyzing event. Their leading spokesman David Ray Griffin with connections to the New World Order wrote a best selling book, The New Pearl Harbor.

It never occurred to them that the U.S. Government would NEVER publish their plans for worldwide military hegemony on the PNAC website.

What are these people smoking?
George W. Bush played the part of being stupid really well for eight years but no one in their right mind would actually believe Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz and Perle would announce their secret plans for 9/11 on a website with an Alexa traffic rank of 942,906 and 1631 sites linking in.

But wait, Bush and Cheney were not behind 9/11 after all: it was a Zionist Israeli plot.
Thanks to the unmitigated stupidity of the five Israelis caught on tape dancing on 9/11 and Chris Bollyn’s recent discovery of “Israel’s Super-Termite” (nanothermite), we now know the September 11 attacks were to change the military equation in the Middle East.
And Chris Bollyn has the answer as to “how the Israeli government could possibly think they would get away with such an audacious and heinous crime of false-flag terrorism:”
“What they didn’t expect is that a few Americans would dig into the evidence and uncover every stone to find the real culprits. They certainly didn’t expect that a careful and independent scientific analysis of the dust would reveal that a nano-composite form of super-thermite was used to pulverize the World Trade Center.”


“What they didn’t expect is that a few Americans would dig…” I can hardly stop laughing!

But when I did stop laughing, I contacted Andrew Johnson at Check The Evidence and asked him the following questions:
Q) What is thermite anyway? Answer: Aluminum Powder and Iron Oxide (rust).
Fact: The exterior of WTC towers contained aluminum and there were some rusty beams inside the buildings. Therefore, we can dismiss any smoking gun theory of super-thermite because you would expect to find aluminum powder and iron oxide in the remains of the World Trade Center.

Q) What does thermite do to metal? Answer: It melts through it.

Q) What happened to the towers? Answer: They turned largely to dust.

Thermite cannot have been responsible for turning towers to dust. Let's see this nanothermite in action please!

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Re: 9/11 Truthers are Dummies

Postby salomed » Fri Sep 28, 2012 6:12 pm

You would do better to be less smarmy and ridiculing, keep it simple and clear what you a saying, keep your personality out of it and stick to reason. Third time lucky!

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Re: 9/11 Truthers are Dummies

Postby equestrian » Fri Sep 28, 2012 7:06 pm

You are joking right? I thought you guys had big brains.

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Re: 9/11 Truthers are Dummies

Postby OlegTheBatty » Fri Sep 28, 2012 7:33 pm

equestrian wrote:You are joking right? I thought you guys had big brains.

Well yes, yes we do. As you can see, we like to keep it occupied.
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Re: 9/11 Truthers are Dummies

Postby salomed » Fri Sep 28, 2012 7:57 pm

equestrian wrote:You are joking right? I thought you guys had big brains.

I don't think I do, but... I was lucky enough to get a philosophical education, and this is the ideal skeptical skillset, it also the easiest skillset for anyone to learn.

If you think philosophically about 911 you will think better than you do now. As will those you see as your foes...

Cultivate your wisdoms.
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Re: 9/11 Truthers are Dummies

Postby equestrian » Fri Sep 28, 2012 8:07 pm

If you think philosophically about 911 you will think better than you do now. As will those you see as your foes...


Cultivate your wisdoms?

Do I have to think for you guys as well? I don't believe the official, the 9/11 Truth story (controlled demolition or mini-nukes) ... therefore I have no idea what foes you are talking about.

Here read this if you want to know whatreallyhappened on 9/11.
9/26 Pictures of Mini Nukes at PakAlert Prove 9-11 was a Metaphysical Catechism (Test)
http://www.thepeoplesvoice.org/TPV3/Voi ... lert-prove

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Re: 9/11 Truthers are Dummies

Postby salomed » Fri Sep 28, 2012 8:18 pm

equestrian wrote:
If you think philosophically about 911 you will think better than you do now. As will those you see as your foes...


Cultivate your wisdoms?

Do I have to think for you guys as well? I don't believe the official, the 9/11 Truth story (controlled demolition or mini-nukes) ... therefore I have no idea what foes you are talking about.

Here read this if you want to know whatreallyhappened on 9/11.
9/26 Pictures of Mini Nukes at PakAlert Prove 9-11 was a Metaphysical Catechism (Test)
http://www.thepeoplesvoice.org/TPV3/Voi ... lert-prove


Mini nukes,
Thermite charges cutting beams,
Tesla rain from Satelite A7guard Orbiter,
Allau ackba box cutter crazies,
Holographs in September,
The presidents men are watching the president,
Reading aloud the fairy tail.

Avoid the trap, equestrian.
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Re: 9/11 Truthers are Dummies

Postby Poodle » Sat Sep 29, 2012 12:49 am

Well, I must admit that I cannot see the trap that Equestrian is about to fall into - principally because it's difficult (impossible?) to discern what Equestrian is trying to say.

How about it, Equestrian? Just say what you mean. Try to do it in one or two sentences. Okay - three.

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Re: 9/11 Truthers are Dummies

Postby andyb » Sun Oct 07, 2012 4:46 am

Well this post is just stupid.

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Re: 9/11 Truthers are Dummies

Postby Gord » Tue Oct 09, 2012 7:59 am

andyb wrote:Well this post is just stupid.

What's so stupid about your post? It seems well spelt, at least.
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Re: 9/11 Truthers are Dummies

Postby justinrapper » Sat Oct 20, 2012 6:00 pm

Most American would love to believe in a conspiracy theory for 9/11. It is just too unbearable to think some wandering band of thugs half a world away with no missiles, fighter jets but bare bone rifles and grenade launchers could actually mount an attack on America and destroy their symbols of economic dominance those twin towers.
But the irony of this denial is Americas acceptance of the near collapse of their economy the attack caused and an admittance of the success of the mission i.e to deal a economic blow to America.
What is also ironic is seeing how the Christians who called for judgement day on Americans for their waywardness is rather sheepish a rival religion actually answered their prayers and dealt the devastating blow.
What is also ironic is their attack on a president who brought the man responsible to justice by killing him.
It is not only 9/11 truthers that are Dummies there are other believers behind them.

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Re: 9/11 Truthers are Dummies

Postby ScottSommers » Sun Oct 21, 2012 9:29 am

It’s getting harder these days to avoid gullible progressive Democrats telling ludicrous fairy tales about 9/11.
MoveOn, WeAreChange, WorldCan’tWait and the 9/11 Truth movements have constructed an elaborately woven web of delusions and unsubstantiated hearsay about the events of 9/11 to the extent that a number of otherwise rational Democrats have actually fallen under their spell.

This is an incorrect description of the current state of 9/11 Truth. For example, We Are Change is not a group for "progressive Democrats." Members of WAC are overwhelmingly supporters of Ron Paul - you know...the guy who is a Republican member of Congress and has run several time for the party leadership. WAC and their supporters are drawn from the most extreme of the right-wing.

I published an article about this in The Skeptic Magazine. You can read the official version of this here
http://content.ebscohost.com/pdf25_26/p ... 478720.pdf
We have also discussed this extensively on the James Randi Educational Forum here
http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php? ... ost6716431
I enter the discussion after post #44.

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Re: 9/11 Truthers are Dummies

Postby justinrapper » Sun Oct 21, 2012 1:49 pm

ScottSommers wrote:
It’s getting harder these days to avoid gullible progressive Democrats telling ludicrous fairy tales about 9/11.
MoveOn, WeAreChange, WorldCan’tWait and the 9/11 Truth movements have constructed an elaborately woven web of delusions and unsubstantiated hearsay about the events of 9/11 to the extent that a number of otherwise rational Democrats have actually fallen under their spell.

This is an incorrect description of the current state of 9/11 Truth. For example, We Are Change is not a group for "progressive Democrats." Members of WAC are overwhelmingly supporters of Ron Paul - you know...the guy who is a Republican member of Congress and has run several time for the party leadership. WAC and their supporters are drawn from the most extreme of the right-wing.

I published an article about this in The Skeptic Magazine. You can read the official version of this here
http://content.ebscohost.com/pdf25_26/p ... 478720.pdf
We have also discussed this extensively on the James Randi Educational Forum here
http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php? ... ost6716431
I enter the discussion after post #44.

There are no democrats and there are no republicans. They are all Americans. 9/11 should not have happened and the sooner Americans start believing it never happened the sooner they will wipe it off their consciousness and move on. The belief in American Exceptionalism is no longer credible when intrusive historical events such as Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan and 9/11 shatter the nations claims to such exceptionalism but succumb so easily to failures. Some things are best forgotten and left unsaid. If only there were no reminders and reasons for the world to insist that America not forget.

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Re: 9/11 Truthers are Dummies

Postby ScottSommers » Sun Oct 21, 2012 2:07 pm

There are no democrats and there are no republicans. They are all Americans. 9/11 should not have happened and the sooner Americans start believing it never happened the sooner they will wipe it off their consciousness and move on. The belief in American Exceptionalism is no longer credible when intrusive historical events such as Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan and 9/11 shatter the nations claims to such exceptionalism but succumb so easily to failures. Some things are best forgotten and left unsaid. If only there were no reminders and reasons for the world to insist that America not forget


This is a belief that Truthers like to promote. If you read through the thread from the James Randi forum that I posted, I show how this is completely wrong. Initially, prominent Truthers appeared to be drawn overwhelmingly from the supporters of the Democrats. This includes a large number of Hollywood personalities who supported Obama in 2008. But ever since that black guy moved into the White House and started talking about public health insurance, most of them have gone deathly quite. As such, most of the forums run by these guys have pretty much died, and Facebook has turned into the hotbed of 9/11 Truth. There, it's the Ron Paul/John Birch/guns-for-everyone lobby that has taken up the torch.

I recommend you read my links where I document this in some detail. It's better than making things up.

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Re: 9/11 Truthers are Dummies

Postby justinrapper » Sun Oct 21, 2012 2:59 pm

ScottSommers wrote:
There are no democrats and there are no republicans. They are all Americans. 9/11 should not have happened and the sooner Americans start believing it never happened the sooner they will wipe it off their consciousness and move on. The belief in American Exceptionalism is no longer credible when intrusive historical events such as Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan and 9/11 shatter the nations claims to such exceptionalism but succumb so easily to failures. Some things are best forgotten and left unsaid. If only there were no reminders and reasons for the world to insist that America not forget


This is a belief that Truthers like to promote. If you read through the thread from the James Randi forum that I posted, I show how this is completely wrong. Initially, prominent Truthers appeared to be drawn overwhelmingly from the supporters of the Democrats. This includes a large number of Hollywood personalities who supported Obama in 2008. But ever since that black guy moved into the White House and started talking about public health insurance, most of them have gone deathly quite. As such, most of the forums run by these guys have pretty much died, and Facebook has turned into the hotbed of 9/11 Truth. There, it's the Ron Paul/John Birch/guns-for-everyone lobby that has taken up the torch.

I recommend you read my links where I document this in some detail. It's better than making things up.

If you look at the republican agenda and why Paul Ryan was a favored VP pick. There is a government's (republican congress) conspiracy to gut the social programs, women's programs, education, food stamps, abortion rights, minority voting rights at the same time giving 5 trillion in tax cuts to the very rich and 2 trillion to the military budget. Is this for world domination? It is for the domination of the American people first.
The 9/11 and all the failed attempts at wars to dominate world affairs even after the collapse of the Soviet Union is very disconcerting to neocons. America can never meet its debt obligations and will be too weakened or held back if it shifts its priorities to fiscal discipline from military expansion.
A culture of drugs, greed and government dependencies with looming entitlement insolvency America is more than a Nation in decline. It is a superpower crumbling from self inflicted implosion. It is not that Americans should be ashamed to be Americans but that Americans are ashamed there are just too many of them and the world agrees.

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Re: 9/11 Truthers are Dummies

Postby ScottSommers » Sun Oct 21, 2012 3:08 pm

I'm sure. But I see you still haven't read any of the links I posted, so why should I bother addressing your confused description of the American party system and it's relationship to conspiracy theory beliefs? Get back to me after you've read my links. That would seem to be the appropriate thing to do at this point rather than continuing to make things up and throwing them at me hoping I'll bite.

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Re: 9/11 Truthers are Dummies

Postby xouper » Sun Oct 21, 2012 3:19 pm

ScottSommers wrote:I'm sure. But I see you still haven't read any of the links I posted, so why should I bother addressing your confused description of the American party system and it's relationship to conspiracy theory beliefs? Get back to me after you've read my links. That would seem to be the appropriate thing to do at this point rather than continuing to make things up and throwing them at me hoping I'll bite.

Welcome to the forum Scott.

Allow me to introduce you to one of the forum's more prolific trolls, "justinrapper". No one here will expect you to take him seriously. I see you figured that out already.

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Re: 9/11 Truthers are Dummies

Postby ScottSommers » Sun Oct 21, 2012 3:33 pm

xouper wrote:
ScottSommers wrote:I'm sure. But I see you still haven't read any of the links I posted, so why should I bother addressing your confused description of the American party system and it's relationship to conspiracy theory beliefs? Get back to me after you've read my links. That would seem to be the appropriate thing to do at this point rather than continuing to make things up and throwing them at me hoping I'll bite.

Welcome to the forum Scott.

Allow me to introduce you to one of the forum's more prolific trolls, "justinrapper". No one here will expect you to take him seriously. I see you figured that out already.


Thank you. I don't mind dealing with this problem - when it's appropriate. Maybe I can start a thread to discuss it. But then who knows where the trolls will try and take it? As you note, the best way to deal with them is to ignore them.

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Re: 9/11 Truthers are Dummies

Postby justinrapper » Sun Oct 21, 2012 4:39 pm

ScottSommers wrote:I'm sure. But I see you still haven't read any of the links I posted, so why should I bother addressing your confused description of the American party system and it's relationship to conspiracy theory beliefs? Get back to me after you've read my links. That would seem to be the appropriate thing to do at this point rather than continuing to make things up and throwing them at me hoping I'll bite.

I read the links you posted and even some of the ones that found your position quite puzzling. Conspiracy theorist and truthers are a special group and have their own followers and adherents and are not politically affiliated with any party. It does not make sense that the right wing conspiacy theorist held it against their own part for 9/11 or would even continue to do so when the chance of bringing those they claim responsible (Dick Cheney & Bush W) to trial or impeachment is zero.
The left might have had some benefit to politicize the issue and feed the 9/11 conspiracy but most of their presidential candidates voted for the war. Even after winning the elections and with a democratic majority in both houses and a democratic president they had no appetite to advance any impeachment against BushW Cheney gang.
It is a moot point today because evidence does not support the Truthers Left/Right and it is unpatriotic of Americans to not support the wars and it is even more unpatriotic to suggest Americans at the highest level were actually co-conspirators in the 9/11 incident.
America was dealt a deadly blow which brought the nation to the brink of economic disaster. The attack itself was not the main cause for the collapse of the American economy but the cumulative missteps taken by BushW and his administration to deal with it blew it out of proportions which led to the current demise.
What is undeniable is the genius of the man who masterminded the attack with nothing but a gang of thugs. The gang entered America, took flight lessons, hijacked planes and crashed into building, important buildings. It took another genius like Obama to take the genius out.
If Americans have to look for a conspiracy it has to lie somewhere between John McCain and Hillary Clinton's loss to Obama. Obama's middle name is Hussein. The conspiracy was to have a Black American Muslim president to fight the Islamist and bring about a clash of civilization. But unfortunately the Hussein in Obama's name did not make the president a Muslim. It only fooled 30% of the American population but had little effect on the targeted Muslims across the world. Maybe they should have looked for a circumcised dick instead of just his middle name. But conspirators are not very bright people even though they appeal to Skeptics and this is why both share the stage with dummies.

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Re: 9/11 Truthers are Dummies

Postby ScottSommers » Sun Oct 21, 2012 5:03 pm

I just read your post and have no idea what you're talking about. Serious question, is English your first language? I have taught English - for a very long time. You don't write like a native English speaker. Perhaps you've been drinking. If you wait until tomorrow and reread my links, maybe I'll be able to understand what you're talking about then. Until then, I'm sorry our friendship had to come to this.

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Re: 9/11 Truthers are Dummies

Postby justinrapper » Sun Oct 21, 2012 7:39 pm

ScottSommers wrote:I just read your post and have no idea what you're talking about. Serious question, is English your first language? I have taught English - for a very long time. You don't write like a native English speaker. Perhaps you've been drinking. If you wait until tomorrow and reread my links, maybe I'll be able to understand what you're talking about then. Until then, I'm sorry our friendship had to come to this.

Not many agreed with your post so you might very well be speaking some archaic version of English. I think what you are looking for is someone to agree with your position. But I don;t think you found any takers. Can you point to anyone in your linked post who found you remotely intelligent?

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Re: 9/11 Truthers are Dummies

Postby Gord » Sun Oct 21, 2012 11:53 pm

ScottSommers wrote:I just read your post and have no idea what you're talking about. Serious question, is English your first language? I have taught English - for a very long time. You don't write like a native English speaker. Perhaps you've been drinking. If you wait until tomorrow and reread my links, maybe I'll be able to understand what you're talking about then. Until then, I'm sorry our friendship had to come to this.

Justinrapper can be a little hard to read at times. He goes off on weird trips. I often think he's handed the keyboard to someone else; it's like his posts are being written by different people with different views and different native languages.

P.S. I was going to ask if you were Cyclops, but then I noticed you're Scott Sommers, not Scott Summers.
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Re: 9/11 Truthers are Dummies

Postby justinrapper » Mon Oct 22, 2012 5:16 pm

ScottSommers wrote:I just read your post and have no idea what you're talking about. Serious question, is English your first language? I have taught English - for a very long time. You don't write like a native English speaker. Perhaps you've been drinking. If you wait until tomorrow and reread my links, maybe I'll be able to understand what you're talking about then. Until then, I'm sorry our friendship had to come to this.

Tell me what it is that you are struggling with. I listed your quotes and followed it with mine and others comments.
1. My point is that the only form of growth available to 911 conspiracy-stuff is on the Right.
Not true.

2. There is no way for Left Wing networks to promote this 911 conspiracy-thing.
Not true.

3. I keep reading on the JREF that 911 conspiracy is dead - or something like that. this is ridiculous.
It is not ridiculous. There just isn't any evidence.

4. Third, some of these so-called Left-Wing Truthers are still around.
First, and foremost, the 9/11 Truth Movement is neither uninformed nor political. It is comprised of people around the globe - from every spectrum of political thought - who refuse to accept the unsubstantiated and seriously flawed official account of the events of 9/11, and who have raised legitimate questions about that account.

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Re: 9/11 Truthers are Dummies

Postby bigtim » Mon Oct 22, 2012 7:08 pm

wait... are you guys aggressively agreeing?
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Re: 9/11 Truthers are Dummies

Postby justinrapper » Mon Oct 22, 2012 7:51 pm

bigtim wrote:wait... are you guys aggressively agreeing?

I was aggressively disagreeing. But that did not go across too well. Now I am less aggressively disagreeing or better still politely disagreeing.

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Re: 9/11 Truthers are Dummies

Postby ComputerProgrammer » Tue Nov 20, 2012 6:02 am

Dummies? Hmmm.. I suppose that's a matter of opinion. I will tell you I have had my fair share of experience with these ilk of conspiracy theorists that believe things like 911 truth and I will tell you from observation that I think many of them are prone to believing things on dubious evidence.

Does this make them dummies? You can decide that; many of them I notice also believe in religion the bible etc. (reliance on dubious evidence for beliefs) way more so than just your everyday person that you meet. Again this is from my observation.

The problem with these conspiracies is the conspiracy theorist is usually the sheer definition of apophenia i.e. connecting dots and filling in gaps (having the god of the gaps mentality) on evidence that really isn't there.

Basically they have disparate facts or evidence that isn't even evidence at all (dubious evidence) strung together into some kind of mass plot like your typical "New World Order Conspiracy".

I have looked at a lot of the supposed "evidence" or "documents" that conspiracy advocates like Alex Jones point too and 98% of the time the "evidence" if you actually read their evidence like "the document(s)" have little to nothing to do with the proposed conspiracy, or they are simply a lie. People like Alex Jones will lie and distort evidence to further their cause.

The bigger picture of course is right in front of these conspiracy theorists and that's Occam's razor which almost all of these major conspiracies violate. They also fail for one other core reason which I will explain below.

When I say "secret conspiracy" for the sake of simplicity from here on down I mean a conspiracy that a group of people believe, but at the same time little to none of the conspirators involved in the conspiracy have come out in the open about the conspiracy.

Classically people are horrible at keeping secrets and that's the biggest reason in my mind why these types of conspiracies fail. Take for example 911 truth. If the government really pulled this off it would have taken literally hundreds if not thousands of people involved in the conspiracy.

How it is suggested that this can be kept a secret by everyone from the inside (except for the conspiracy theorists not involved in the actual conspiracy) is an absolute joke. It would require tons of people all keeping their lips locked and not telling anyone anything. Think about it.

It would have required a bunch of people planting the bombs in the towers. It would have required people making fake phone calls to family members from the planes. It would have required people who remotely controlled the planes into the towers. Then how about the hijackers that took the original real planes (not the remote ones) and executed all the passengers? Who knows, maybe all the passengers from the planes in on the conspiracy too? We could go on and on forever.

This leads me to a funny story and an even dumb and dumberer conspiracy that I'm sure we've all heard about "Chemtrails" Here's a Funny Story->

I have a friend that seriously believes that all these contrails in the sky are chemtrail chemicals the government is spraying to kill us all and alter the weather in some huge New World Order plot and better yet they are doing this all over the U.S.

When I confronted him on this with the simple logical basis that this would require thousands of people all keeping it a secret he of course became very defensive and scrambled to think of the most ridiculous excuses that he could by using his "evidence" which included things like the documentary "What In The World Are They Spraying". This Documentary by the way is an absolute joke.

Here's the core of our argument and debate->

I explained to him it's not easy to fly a plane and the government would literally have to hire thousands of people to spray all these cities and towns people claim they are "chemtrailing". How and where are they getting all these people? Is there an ad on Craigslist that I am missing titled "Chemtrailer Pilots Wanted?".

Then how about all of the other people involved? The people that are manufacturing the spraying devices and the planes; how about the Air Ports etc. that would have to be involved too? Who and where are all these people? You can't just take off a plane from anywhere. This would require thousands of people all "keeping a secret" and you're saying it's logical that NOBODY has openly admitted they are spraying people from the inside?

Also the government would have to convince all these thousands of people that spraying their families and themselves was a great idea. Where are all these people and why have none of them come clean?

His only defense was "well I think all these people that work for Monsanto are doing it and whenever someone tries to come clean they mysteriously disappear". So he's saying they are killed.

I refuted this silly argument with "Wouldn't the FBI and local law enforcement be concerned that all these people dying started to talk bad about Monsanto and then mysteriously disappear?"

His response was "I think they might be in on it too".....Yea.....you see with every crack pot idea you come up with more people would have to become involved for the conspiracy to work.

The FBI, the police, the people hired to kill all the people that start to come clean etc. would all have to be in on it. Eventually it would require almost everyone being a conspirator in this huge "SECRET CONSPIRACY"; heck maybe even I am part of it!!

Eventually he could see he was sort of looking like a silly child with his arguments and he gave up but HE STILL BELIEVES IN THIS CRAP. I honestly don't know whether or not to call him a dummy but I do think he and a lot of conspiracy theorists have mental health problems.

This is how you can tell a lot of "legitimate secret conspiracies" from insane ones. I am not saying there are not "legitimate secret conspiracies" but they usually involve only a few people where they can all keep their actions a secret.

Like Watergate which involved around 15 people is all...but...even this eventually came out.

I will also point out that the actions in the Oval office by Bill Clinton and Monica Lewinsky where only 2 people were involved STILL CAME OUT!!

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Re: 9/11 Truthers are Dummies

Postby Poodle » Tue Nov 20, 2012 10:45 am

ComputerProgrammer wrote: I will also point out that the actions in the Oval office by Bill Clinton and Monica Lewinsky where only 2 people were involved STILL CAME OUT!!


No, no, no. That was the whole point. The evidence DIDN'T come out. Monica made sure it stayed on that dress, exactly where it had been put.

(In case you're reading this, justinrapper, it's called a joke. J-O-K-E.).

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Re: 9/11 Truthers are Dummies

Postby justinrapper » Thu Nov 22, 2012 6:10 pm

Poodle wrote:
ComputerProgrammer wrote: I will also point out that the actions in the Oval office by Bill Clinton and Monica Lewinsky where only 2 people were involved STILL CAME OUT!!


No, no, no. That was the whole point. The evidence DIDN'T come out. Monica made sure it stayed on that dress, exactly where it had been put.

(In case you're reading this, justinrapper, it's called a joke. J-O-K-E.).

So was legitimate rape and god intended the pregnancy in every case. Women like to have it both ways.

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Re: 9/11 Truthers are Dummies

Postby Poodle » Thu Nov 22, 2012 6:46 pm

justinrapper wrote:So was legitimate rape and god intended the pregnancy in every case. Women like to have it both ways.


I have lots of time ...

:pc:

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Re: 9/11 Truthers are Dummies

Postby justinrapper » Thu Nov 22, 2012 6:57 pm

Poodle wrote:
justinrapper wrote:So was legitimate rape and god intended the pregnancy in every case. Women like to have it both ways.


I have lots of time ...

:pc:

A joke is something one can laugh at. What you have is of very little interest here. :lol:

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Re: 9/11 Truthers are Dummies

Postby Repent » Sun Aug 25, 2013 3:52 pm

I'd say I'm a 'real' skeptic. I will look at both sides of an argument before coming to a conclusion. I will then alter that conclusion on the basis of new evidence.

I was in the same camp, I never touched the topic of a 9/11 conspiracy for 10 years after it occured, however on the 10th anniversary of 9/11, I ventured into a news forum to see what the 'crazy' fuss was all about. I looked at the evidence, and there is a lot of evidence. I spent weeks seeking out sources, verifying claims, arguing points, and I would say I'm now well within the camp of believing 9/11 was an inside job. Of cource, if new evidence comes to bear I would change this perspective. However, the overwhelming nature of the evidence is so convincing, and from many diverse authoriative sources; Architechs & engineers for 9/11 truth- presumably they know more about buildings, engineering, and metalurgy than the rest of us; Pilots for 9/11 truth, Firefighters for 9/11 truth, US military officers for 9/11 truth; and many others.

Here are a few links to the 'best' claims:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... OqRDI4#t=2
The explosive evidence- Architechs and engineers for 9/11 truth

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... piVv8tQdmY
The Toronto 9/11 hearings- (5 hour summary of evidence based claims)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vUdJ41J_ ... ilpage#t=2
Pilots for 9/11 truth- 9/11 intercepted

http://www.journalof911studies.com/
The Journal of 9/11 studies- peer reviewed scientific papers about 9/11

This is just a sampling. To say that 9/11 truthers are dummies, is clearly not true. Many of these people are exceptionally educated and experienced. I wish I had half the creditials of some these people so I could actually verify these claims myself independantly. What impressed apon me most was that the 9/11 truth movement was created originally by the victims of 9/11 family members. To deny 9/11 truth is to deny the victims to truth and justice, and that just seems wrong.

What of 9/11 deniers? Are they real skeptics:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... R8YIHk#t=1

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Re: 9/11 Truthers are Dummies

Postby Gord » Mon Aug 26, 2013 1:41 am

:roll: good god
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Re: 9/11 Truthers are Dummies

Postby Kaepora Gaebora » Mon Aug 26, 2013 1:47 am

Good GRIEF!

:lol: Looking at that 'journal', a lot of papers are pointless speculation and one of them hilariously tries to make a conclusion based on the amount of results based on a keyword search in two databases that there is infighting in the science community about what has happened.

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Re: 9/11 Truthers are Dummies

Postby Daedalus » Mon Aug 26, 2013 3:58 am

@Repent: So... can I call you a {!#%@} instead?
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Re: 9/11 Truthers are Dummies

Postby Matthew Ellard » Mon Aug 26, 2013 4:25 am

Repent wrote:I'd say I'm a 'real' skeptic. ...... I would say I'm now well within the camp of believing 9/11 was an inside job.......... Here are a few links to the 'best' claims

As you are a real skeptic, can you write down in your own words the three most compelling examples of evidence you have observed from all these you tube videos, that 9/11 was an inside job.

May I also suggest that the James Randi Educational Foundation (JREF) has an entire sub forum devoted to debunking 9/11 conspiracy claims. Reading this forum may allow you to dismiss some of the you-tube video conspiracy arguments yourself. After you have done this you can present your evidence in words for discussion.

http://forums.randi.org/forumdisplay.php?f=64

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Re: 9/11 Truthers are Dummies

Postby Matthew Ellard » Mon Aug 26, 2013 4:51 am

Repent wrote: Are they real skeptics:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... R8YIHk#t=1


This has got to be the most stupid "anti-skeptic" video ever made.

The "author",Aaron Hawkins, accuses skeptics as being "not real skeptics" because they label "conspiracy theories" as "conspiracy theories". That's just ridiculous. If a person brings a theory about a conspiracy here, what else should it be called?

The "author" Aaron Hawkins, states that a "real skeptic" should follow skeptic logic as defined by the "author" ( The "No true Scotsman" fallacy).

The "author" claims that "No one can give a rational explanation why, on 9/11, building 7 fell onto its own footprint". Building 7 didn't fall onto its own footprint and damaged the Verizon building and 30 W Broadway. The author should to do some basic reading before making videos. .

The "author", Aaron Hawkins, naturally has a blog. On this blog we can read about the secret domestic American army, the government assassination of MLK, secret USA camps for political dissidents and so on.

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Re: 9/11 Truthers are Dummies

Postby moth1ne » Mon Aug 26, 2013 11:06 pm

Repent wrote:I'd say I'm a 'real' skeptic. I will look at both sides of an argument before coming to a conclusion. I will then alter that conclusion on the basis of new evidence.

I was in the same camp, I never touched the topic of a 9/11 conspiracy for 10 years after it occured, however on the 10th anniversary of 9/11, I ventured into a news forum to see what the 'crazy' fuss was all about. I looked at the evidence, and there is a lot of evidence. I spent weeks seeking out sources, verifying claims, arguing points, and I would say I'm now well within the camp of believing 9/11 was an inside job. Of cource, if new evidence comes to bear I would change this perspective. However, the overwhelming nature of the evidence is so convincing, and from many diverse authoriative sources; Architechs & engineers for 9/11 truth- presumably they know more about buildings, engineering, and metalurgy than the rest of us; Pilots for 9/11 truth, Firefighters for 9/11 truth, US military officers for 9/11 truth; and many others.

Here are a few links to the 'best' claims:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... OqRDI4#t=2
The explosive evidence- Architechs and engineers for 9/11 truth

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... piVv8tQdmY
The Toronto 9/11 hearings- (5 hour summary of evidence based claims)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vUdJ41J_ ... ilpage#t=2
Pilots for 9/11 truth- 9/11 intercepted

http://www.journalof911studies.com/
The Journal of 9/11 studies- peer reviewed scientific papers about 9/11

This is just a sampling. To say that 9/11 truthers are dummies, is clearly not true. Many of these people are exceptionally educated and experienced. I wish I had half the creditials of some these people so I could actually verify these claims myself independantly. What impressed apon me most was that the 9/11 truth movement was created originally by the victims of 9/11 family members. To deny 9/11 truth is to deny the victims to truth and justice, and that just seems wrong.

What of 9/11 deniers? Are they real skeptics:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... R8YIHk#t=1

So you studied up on the conspiracy theory? But did you actually study up on the official report? Did you study any of the contrary evidence? Mmm... You know what? You don't really even need to... Logic alone is all anyone with half a brain needs to dismiss the "inside job" theory. So the administration pulled it off? An administration that couldn't even balance the budget? Thousands and thousands of employees all sworn to secrecy and not a single little leak? Heck the government can't really keep any of its wheelings and dealings secret *cough cough watergate, wikileaks, Ed Snowden, etc* so how do you suppose they kept this one under wraps? Or that they would even take the risk? It just doesn't seem plausible or even remotely logical... Try the alternative explanations on too... Don't just buy the first car you test drive... ;)
"Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence." -Carl Sagan, The Demon Haunted World

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Re: 9/11 Truthers are Dummies

Postby valerie5 » Tue Jan 28, 2014 12:15 pm

I know personally the kind of people who follow many of these conspiracy theories (my parents being these as well, unfortunately and myself being a target of this since age 6). ie the political conspiracy theories, the ancient aliens theory (my mother wrote a novel on this topic), the holocaust denial theories. They are nearly always right wing political extremists. For a sample of their warped, hate-filled world view you can go to LaRouchePlanet.com. http://laroucheplanet.info/pmwiki/pmwik ... y.Factnet3 and http://laroucheplanet.info/pmwiki/pmwik ... orum101708
Also to the book by Dennis King: cult expert, on the same site.

These groups do not just promote these theories to support their political agendas, they also harass people who do not conform to them. You can see this from the discussions on fact net of ex-members and the site:http://justiceforjeremiahcampaignupdate.blogspot.com.au/2012/09/truth-will-set-us-free-from-larouche.html?showComment=1389868576989#c874957686424891191 which describes the legal battle to hold them accountable for murder of a target of theirs.

These groups unfortunately, like Scientology may have support from some areas of government see Dennis King's analysis or at least they may have infiltrated other areas of public life.

The point I am trying to make is that the conspiracy theories are just a small part of the reason why these groups are dangerous, but these theories serve to attract members and to reinforce an entire distorted worldview, to sustain these movements as cults and to give them a sense of superiority over others whom they harass.

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Re: 9/11 Truthers are Dummies

Postby Gord » Wed Jan 29, 2014 3:04 pm

valerie5 wrote:I know personally the kind of people who follow many of these conspiracy theories (my parents being these as well, unfortunately and myself being a target of this since age 6). ie the political conspiracy theories, the ancient aliens theory (my mother wrote a novel on this topic), the holocaust denial theories. They are nearly always right wing political extremists. For a sample of their warped, hate-filled world view you can go to LaRouchePlanet.com. http://laroucheplanet.info/pmwiki/pmwik ... y.Factnet3 and http://laroucheplanet.info/pmwiki/pmwik ... orum101708
Also to the book by Dennis King: cult expert, on the same site.

These groups do not just promote these theories to support their political agendas, they also harass people who do not conform to them. You can see this from the discussions on fact net of ex-members and the site:http://justiceforjeremiahcampaignupdate.blogspot.com.au/2012/09/truth-will-set-us-free-from-larouche.html?showComment=1389868576989#c874957686424891191 which describes the legal battle to hold them accountable for murder of a target of theirs.

These groups unfortunately, like Scientology may have support from some areas of government see Dennis King's analysis or at least they may have infiltrated other areas of public life.

The point I am trying to make is that the conspiracy theories are just a small part of the reason why these groups are dangerous, but these theories serve to attract members and to reinforce an entire distorted worldview, to sustain these movements as cults and to give them a sense of superiority over others whom they harass.

Did I just read a conspiracy theory about conspiracy theorists? :?
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Re: 9/11 Truthers are Dummies

Postby Monster » Wed Jan 29, 2014 4:54 pm

valerie5 wrote:I know personally the kind of people who follow many of these conspiracy theories (my parents being these as well, unfortunately and myself being a target of this since age 6). ie the political conspiracy theories, the ancient aliens theory (my mother wrote a novel on this topic), the holocaust denial theories. They are nearly always right wing political extremists.

I disagree with that. Bill Maher (anti-vaccine, anti-pharmaceuticals) and Rosie O'Donnell (9/11 truther) are good examples of lefties that are conspiracy nuts. There are others too, of course. Communists believe that anything that's anti-US or makes the US look like it has nefarious goals is true.
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