The Associated Press

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Re: The Associated Press

Postby JO 753 » Mon Mar 06, 2017 10:35 pm

Claiming 'fake newz' seemz to be an agreed upon stratejy by the rite wing propaganda machine.

You will find that they almost never bother to back up the claim with any evidens. And the few timez they do, its alwayz sumthing very minor that haz alredy been corrected by the real media.
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Re: The Associated Press

Postby Tom Palven » Tue Mar 07, 2017 3:41 pm

JO 753 wrote:Claiming 'fake newz' seemz to be an agreed upon stratejy by the rite wing propaganda machine.

You will find that they almost never bother to back up the claim with any evidens. And the few timez they do, its alwayz sumthing very minor that haz alredy been corrected by the real media.


You can dismiss the views of Pat Buchanan as being right wing, and maybe the views of Paul Craig Roberts as being libertarian, but Glenn Greenwald, Matt Taibbi, and Max Keiser have solid liberal credentials, imho.

And please check this out from The Sane Progressive, Debbie Lusignan, who had been a very strong advocate for Bernie Sanders. Does the fact that she very forcefully agrees with the others above mean that she has become a right-winger?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vg58nUYZoSw
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Re: The Associated Press

Postby JO 753 » Tue Mar 07, 2017 10:14 pm

Near az I can tell, Lew Rockwell iz pure GoP propaganda.

Their take on the Russia thing iz that its all a plot by Obama to unseat Trump!
https://www.lewrockwell.com/lrc-blog/obamas-participation-anti-trump-coup/

Almost az rediculous az
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W4WGQmWcrbs
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Re: The Associated Press

Postby Tom Palven » Wed Mar 08, 2017 10:32 am

JO 753 wrote:Near az I can tell, Lew Rockwell iz pure GoP propaganda.


Rockwell is anti-neocon and anti-war including war with Russia and conflicts with China, North Korea, and Iran, and he is anti-Military-Industrial-Congressional Complex.

But forget about Rockwell. What about The Sane Progressive, Debbie Lusignan?

1. She was a solid Sanders supporter.
2. She has intellectual integrity, and tells it like it is.
3. She speaks truth to power and is not trying to ingratiate herself with powerful forces.
4. She does her homework and is extremely well-informed.

Can you cite one instance where something Debbie Lusignan claimed to be factual turned out to be false?

Here is the latest on CIA false flag operations that you are unlikely to see reported by the Associated Press.
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-03-0 ... am-eastern
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Re: The Associated Press

Postby JO 753 » Wed Mar 08, 2017 11:12 am

She iz either a Russian operativ or delusional. (I favor delusional) The facts agenst Trump are piling up and he iz on hiz way to jail along with Cohen, Kushner, Manifort, and a haf a dozen other uv hiz campane figurez.
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Re: The Associated Press

Postby Tom Palven » Wed Mar 08, 2017 2:07 pm

JO 753 wrote:She iz either a Russian operativ or delusional. (I favor delusional) The facts agenst Trump are piling up and he iz on hiz way to jail along with Cohen, Kushner, Manifort, and a haf a dozen other uv hiz campane figurez.


The rule is perfect: in all matters of opinion our adversaries are insane. - Mark Twain

Okay, she's delusional. But, can you cite me one point of fact she makes that is false. Just one that you can cite and demonstrate to be incorrect?
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Re: The Associated Press

Postby JO 753 » Wed Mar 08, 2017 8:47 pm

"The Democrats manufactured the Russia scandal"
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Re: The Associated Press

Postby Tom Palven » Thu Mar 09, 2017 8:25 am

JO 753 wrote:"The Democrats manufactured the Russia scandal"


When in the past has it been scandalous to talk to Russians, Iranians, North Koreans or Chinese, mush less British, French, or Italians?

Who is it that decided that the Russians must remain enemies?
http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2017/03/le ... cy-theory/
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Re: The Associated Press

Postby TJrandom » Thu Mar 09, 2017 8:58 am

Tom Palven wrote:... Who is it that decided that the Russians must remain enemies?


erm... Putin? :roll:

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Re: The Associated Press

Postby JO 753 » Thu Mar 09, 2017 10:31 am

Tom Palven wrote:http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2017/03/lefts-great-russian-conspiracy-theory/


Brendan sez:
You have to get deep into the New Yorker’s prolix report to discover that US officials still haven’t provided evidence for their claim that Putin ordered the hacking of Democrat emails in order to hurry Trump to power: ‘The declassified report [on Putin’s meddling] provides more assertion than evidence.’


Another delusional or Russian operativ.

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Re: The Associated Press

Postby Tom Palven » Thu Mar 09, 2017 7:28 pm

JO 753 wrote:
Tom Palven wrote:http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2017/03/lefts-great-russian-conspiracy-theory/


Brendan sez:
You have to get deep into the New Yorker’s prolix report to discover that US officials still haven’t provided evidence for their claim that Putin ordered the hacking of Democrat emails in order to hurry Trump to power: ‘The declassified report [on Putin’s meddling] provides more assertion than evidence.’


Another delusional or Russian operativ.

YOOOHHOOOOO! Tommy! Wakey Wakey! Your soursez are turning up severely flawed.


Here's liberal Glenn Greenwald on the issue:
http://www.truthdig.com/eartotheground/ ... ting_one_o

Would you really rather believe the deep state operatives who swore up and down that Saddam Hussein had weapons of mass destruction and who specialize in disinformation, or The Sane Liberal Debbie Lusignan and Glenn Greenwald?
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Re: The Associated Press

Postby TJrandom » Thu Mar 09, 2017 8:01 pm

Page not found....

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Re: The Associated Press

Postby Tom Palven » Fri Mar 10, 2017 9:31 am

TJrandom wrote:Page not found....


Glenn Greenwald:
https://theintercept.com/2017/03/06/dem ... hampioned/

"...establishment Democrats...have fully embraced the hawkish mentality of John McCain, Lindsay Graham, Bill Kristol, the CIA..."
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Re: The Associated Press

Postby JO 753 » Fri Mar 10, 2017 11:56 am

Not the point.

The point iz where it came from, how it wuz hidden and denied.

It wuznt a secret deal with Obama, it wuz a secret deal with Putin.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8abLxGh_RQc
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Re: The Associated Press

Postby Tom Palven » Sat Mar 11, 2017 2:59 am

JO 753 wrote:Not the point.

The point iz where it came from, how it wuz hidden and denied.

It wuznt a secret deal with Obama, it wuz a secret deal with Putin.


Take a peek at The Intercept, JO, where Glenn Greenwald writes.
https://theintercept.com/

Does that look like the work of crazed right-wingers?
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Re: The Associated Press

Postby JO 753 » Sat Mar 11, 2017 12:31 pm

No.

Iz it wun uv your soursez?
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Re: The Associated Press

Postby Tom Palven » Sat Mar 11, 2017 4:01 pm

JO 753 wrote:No.

Iz it wun uv your soursez?

Yez!
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Re: The Associated Press

Postby Tom Palven » Sat Apr 08, 2017 12:27 pm

Putin calls Assad's alleged use of chemical weapons a crock of {!#%@}, but the AP blithely reports that Trump's missile attack on Syria was in response to chemical weapon use.
https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=pu ... ORM=VRDGAR

Assad would have nothing to gain and everything to lose from the use of chemical weapons, but paying foreign mercenaries to create problems and then spreading disinformation about the situation is something that the CIA specializes in.

So, who ya gonna believe, Putin or the AP?

I know, I know. The AP.

That's why the only thing that's going to change Military-Industrial-Congressional Complex war-mongering is US virtual bankruptcy, and the US is well on its way to that.
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Re: The Associated Press

Postby JO 753 » Sat Apr 08, 2017 2:15 pm

The prevailing opinion amongst anti-Trumperz iz that Putin orkestrated this az a distraction from the Russia scandal and to make Trump look 'strong'.
http://www.msnbc.com/the-last-word
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Re: The Associated Press

Postby Tom Palven » Sat Apr 08, 2017 3:14 pm

JO 753 wrote:The prevailing opinion amongst anti-Trumperz iz that Putin orkestrated this az a distraction from the Russia scandal and to make Trump look 'strong'.
http://www.msnbc.com/the-last-word


Wow, that is way cool!

Machiavellian as all hell!

Great stuff for a Conspiracy thread.

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Re: The Associated Press

Postby Flash » Sun Apr 09, 2017 6:13 am

So JO, what are you going to say now that Trump proved with the Syria bombing that he is not the Putin's puppet? The Liberal narrative insisting that Russians control Trump and helped him to defeat the bitch hits the dirt. Doesn't it? But only with the sane people who, incidentally find themselves greatly outnumbered in the bowels of the Empire of Chaos. There, more crazies are talking even more crazy, just like Lawrence O'Donnell.
The Trump-Putin theory on Syria that can't be ruled out
Lawrence O'Donnell lays out how Donald Trump's credibility problems have made an impossible scenario possible. David Corn, Rick Wilson, and Indira Lakshmanan join.


Finally, although Trump is doing everything trying to prove he is not the Putin's puppet he did kinda of betrayed the people who elected him by becoming a perfect neocon puppet instead but that's another story.
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Re: The Associated Press

Postby JO 753 » Sun Apr 09, 2017 8:15 am

Flash wrote:So JO, what are you going to say now that Trump proved with the Syria bombing that he is not the Putin's puppet?


Same thing I sed on Thurzday:

Assad uzed saran or sum other kemikl wepon on rebelz* a few dayz ago. Today Trump bomd the base that launched the attack.

Wut will Putinz repsons be?

My prediction iz basicly nothing.

I base that on the theory that the kemikl attack wuz intended to help Trump divert attention away from the TrumPutin conspirasy. He iz supposed to look strong and be the hero, so the potential consequens uv escalating a confrontation between America & Russia will not materialize. There may be sum pro- restling style tuff tok, maybe a few troops & sum equipment will be sacrifised to make it look real, but its just a show.
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Re: The Associated Press

Postby Poodle » Sun Apr 09, 2017 9:51 am

My penn'orth ...
The original bombing was an easy attack with low collateral damage (unless you're the target) but absolutely no worthwhile tactical advantage gained. Assad was conned into thinking he could do it with impunity. The response was more expensive but, given the warnings issued, again to no tactical advantage. Since when are the world's superpowers in the business of getting hoighty-toighty over a handful of locals being hurt? Never is the answer to that. It stinks to high heaven of collusion and the only reason for any such collusion is distraction. The outcome is that the world hates Assad (just like they did before) and Putin and Trump look ever so much like fellow conspirators in a stitch-up. Just like they did before.

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Re: The Associated Press

Postby scrmbldggs » Sun Apr 09, 2017 2:49 pm

Not sure if this ties into it somehow but this was reported (not sure if I hit the best spot in the clip... try min 3:38 :pardon:)
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Re: The Associated Press

Postby JO 753 » Sun Apr 09, 2017 5:19 pm

Interesting. Putin iz denying that there were kemikal weponz. Maybe he believz he can make Russianz believ that.

Its likely Assad will get axed. It will be passed off az Trump the great deal maker scoring a big win here and Putin the strong & wize leader in Russia. A puppet uv sum sort will be put in charj in Syria, Trump connected construction biznessez will get all sorts uv contracts and Putin will hav another country to plunder, partly by supplying a massiv military bildup and the rest with hiz usual industry grabbing.
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Re: The Associated Press

Postby scrmbldggs » Sun Apr 09, 2017 5:35 pm

So you think Trump suddenly smelled a profit? Some of his old tweets went like this:

We should stay the hell out of Syria, the "rebels" are just as bad as the current regime. WHAT WILL WE GET FOR OUR LIVES AND $ BILLIONS?ZERO

and

AGAIN, TO OUR VERY FOOLISH LEADER, DO NOT ATTACK SYRIA - IF YOU DO MANY VERY BAD THINGS WILL HAPPEN & FROM THAT FIGHT THE U.S. GETS NOTHING!
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Re: The Associated Press

Postby JO 753 » Sun Apr 09, 2017 8:57 pm

No. I think he smellz going to prizon or getting bumped off if he duznt go along with Putinz plan.
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Re: The Associated Press

Postby Flash » Mon Apr 10, 2017 5:02 am

Poodle wrote:
The outcome is that the world hates Assad (just like they did before) and Putin and Trump look ever so much like fellow conspirators in a stitch-up. Just like they did before.

"the world hates Assad". no kidding, you know this for a fact Poodle? Like...the entire Africa, billions of Indians and Chinese, South Americans, Eastern Europeans...
Maybe the few guys you empty a pint or two at the local bar hate Assad but the entire world? Aren't you a bit ethnocentric and unable to see past the said bar, pardon me, pub. And I am almost ready to guarantee you that the average American or Canadian for that matter won't even know who the {!#%@} Assad is. Never mind hating the guy.

And Putin and Trump look like fellow conspirators? Conspiring to do what?

And now I understand how liberals and neocons have managed to combine Russophobia with their hate of populism. It's all about the conspiratorial union of Putin and Trump. Good thinking ya'll but do you know the planet you are on?
Last edited by Flash on Mon Apr 10, 2017 5:38 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The Associated Press

Postby Flash » Mon Apr 10, 2017 5:35 am

JO 753 wrote:
Interesting. Putin iz denying that there were kemikal weponz. Maybe he believz he can make Russianz believ that.

But you know better JO. You know for sure that Assad bombed Idlib with sarin gas. Strangely the UN doesn't know it, nobody tested the place and no independent journalist will go there because of the great risk of losing one's head to the (good) head choppers and terrorists.

Its likely Assad will get axed. It will be passed off az Trump the great deal maker scoring a big win here and Putin the strong & wize leader in Russia. A puppet uv sum sort will be put in charj in Syria, Trump connected construction biznessez will get all sorts uv contracts and Putin will hav another country to plunder, partly by supplying a massiv military bildup and the rest with hiz usual industry grabbing.


So now you are an oracle and Pythia reincarnated in Illinois of all places. Assad will get axed by the conspiracy of Trump and Putin. Trump will build Trump towers all over Syria and Putin will have another country to plunder.

BTW, which countries has Putin plundered up to date? Being an American your knowledge of geography and politics must be superb. Just give me a list and I will at least say; Mr. Putin, you are not a nice man.

So yes, my Apollinean oracle, Pythia has spoken. Incidentally, would there, in your made up world of fiction, be a man called Seth?
If yes you've got to talk to Gorgeous pronto. And furthermore an obligatory question I must ask you understand. What planet is Illinois on?
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Re: The Associated Press

Postby Matthew Ellard » Mon Apr 10, 2017 6:53 am

Assad isn't going anywhere. The Russians did have replacements lined up in 2015 but Assad is actually quite popular in Syria. People forget that Syria has been stable since the 1973 Arab Israeli war and loyal Syrians see Assad as a moderate. It is the Sunni rebels, whom the majority of the population fear, as Sunnis want to impose a Sunni based theology.

Although Syria's Baath Party is in government, it actually did have multi party elections in 2014. If The USA wanted to do something it should ask the UN to send monitors over to Syria for the next election, rather than just bombing Syria, which creates animosity. This would leave Russia with no option other than to also ask the UN to monitor elections.

"The Syrian government currently controls around 50 percent of the territory, but it rules between 55 and 72 percent of the population left inside Syria. The Sunni rebels control 45 percent of the territory and 17–34 percent of the population, while the Kurds control no more than 5 percent of the territory with 5–10 percent of the population."

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Re: The Associated Press

Postby Tom Palven » Mon Apr 10, 2017 3:50 pm

This is a video from Russia Today.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hq8brFK-kRs

Of course all Russians and anyone who sympathizes or communicates with them are the Devil's spawn, but that is the most rational discussion of Trump's foreign policy that I've heard, seen, or read so far- the whole thing.
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Re: The Associated Press

Postby JO 753 » Mon Apr 10, 2017 4:57 pm

Flash wrote:BTW, which countries has Putin plundered up to date?


1. Russia
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Re: The Associated Press

Postby JO 753 » Mon Apr 10, 2017 5:04 pm

Matthew Ellard wrote:....Assad is actually quite popular in Syria.



Duznt matter. Syria iz a pawn. The only purpose Assad servez iz to buy weponz from Russia and anybody can do that. The big prize iz America, so Putin woud sacrifise the pawn to help keep Trump in offis. But he duznt haf to, he only needz to replase Assad.
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Re: The Associated Press

Postby JO 753 » Mon Apr 10, 2017 5:16 pm

Tom Palven wrote:This is a video from Russia Today.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hq8brFK-kRs.


Here'z sum classic Russian propaganda TV:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BXqKkYYALMU
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Re: The Associated Press

Postby Matthew Ellard » Mon Apr 10, 2017 11:45 pm

Matthew Ellard wrote:....Assad is actually quite popular in Syria.

JO 753 wrote:Duznt matter. Syria iz a pawn. The only purpose Assad servez iz to buy weponz from Russia and anybody can do that. The big prize iz America, so Putin woud sacrifise the pawn to help keep Trump in offis. But he duznt haf to, he only needz to replase Assad.


That's lovely Jo, except not one part of that is true.

French Syria was an artificial construct and was still a French protectorate during WWII. The British forced the French out when the British left British Palestine. Syria was punished by the USA for joining the Arab side in the 1948 Israeli-Arab wars. Israel attacked Syria in 1956 to take the Golan Heights and Russia supplied Syria with weapons to counter the attack. That's the Russian connection. The USA simply treated independent Syria like it did to former French colonies in Indochina (Vietnam) as a place to fight proxy wars against the old Soviet Union.

Syria is not the USA's pawn or Putin's pawn. Syria owns Syria.


I'm not sure why the USA thinks it can install a government in Syria when Syria can vote on its own for its own government, while the USA is simultaneously supplying rebels to destroy the existing, popular Syrian government. This didn't work in Vietnam for the USA, did it?

Why would the Syrian people want a USA sponsored government, when the USA installed governments in Iraq have been a total disaster? Why can't they vote for their own moderate government?

It would seem to me that the UN is still the premiere international negotiation platform and the best policy for Russia and the USA would be to return to the UN as equal partners with all other nations, to monitor the next Syrian federal elections in 2018. Simultaneously, the UN should launch a slow but steady war crime investigation, gathering good evidence, to prosecute any individual on either side who has committed a war crime.

The USA and Russia did work together with the UN on the Jugoslavian civil wars and that was worked well for everyone. We should try to return to that sort of good behaviour.

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Re: The Associated Press

Postby JO 753 » Tue Apr 11, 2017 5:13 am

That makes sens frum a historical perspective, but not from wuts going on now.

Ask yourself this: Woud Putin be tickled pink if the UN fell apart?

Rex Tillerson iz on hiz way to meet with hiz Russian counterpart rite now. Will certainly meet with Putin also. He skipped the UN meeting last month. All the upper level old timerz in the US State Dept were dismissed. Frend uv Russia Tillerson IZ the US State Dept.

The story iz shaping up nisely: Incompetent, inneffectual UN gets nothing dun in Syria & it dejenerates into an international refujee crisis. Now Tillerson'z stedy hand de-escalates the conflict and gets Trump & Putin to negotiate a deal. Hard barginning between theze 2 titanz uv the world finally bringz peace to a failing nation. Putin gets a parade in Russia, Trump gets a boost to hiz approval ratingz. Trump fanz cheer and say 'see wut he did in a weekend at Marilago and Obama / hillary / Kerry coudnt do it in 8 yirz!' Assad haz to be the fall guy for it to work.

Planned a long time ago.
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Re: The Associated Press

Postby Matthew Ellard » Tue Apr 11, 2017 5:50 am

JO 753 wrote: Ask yourself this: Woud Putin be tickled pink if the UN fell apart?
No The Russian Federation loves the UN because it sits on the security council. The UN has issued Israel orders to stop new settlements in Palestinian territories. This is what Russia's Arab allies have asked for. It's the USA who doesn't like the UN.

JO 753 wrote:The story iz shaping up nisely: Incompetent, inneffectual UN gets nothing dun in Syria & it dejenerates into an international refujee crisis.
The UN has set up a "way out". See UN resolution Security Council Resolution 2254. However the UN can't give direct orders and has to rely on the members.

JO 753 wrote:Now Tillerson'z stedy hand de-escalates the conflict and gets Trump & Putin to negotiate a deal.
What deal? Russia doesn't give at rat's arse about the USA's opinion. That's what is confusing Americans. They are not part of the solution other than as an equal member of the UN.

May I remind you the USA bombed a hospital in Mosul last month killing 200 civilian rebels. Did Russia send tomahawk missiles to flatten the USA airforce base? Do you think everyone else on the planet forgot this?

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-03-26/u ... ul/8387452

Tom Palven
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Re: The Associated Press

Postby Tom Palven » Wed Apr 12, 2017 1:29 am

https://www.rt.com/news/384408-syria-no ... ns-russia/

Does this make sense? Doesn't the Syrian regime knows that it would be counterproductive to use chemical weapons if it had them?

And aren't barrel bombs a little primitive when Syria and Russia have much more deadly and effective bombs?
If one can be taught to believe absurdities, one can commit atrocities. --Voltaire

Matthew Ellard
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Re: The Associated Press

Postby Matthew Ellard » Wed Apr 12, 2017 1:38 am

Tom Palven wrote:https://www.rt.com/news/384408-syria-no-chemical-weapons-russia/


Out of general interest, there is a group in Sydney who claim that ISIS "false flagged" the chemical attack, also without any evidence and with mere conjecture. However, they are being "fed" by Syria so you can sort of assess what Syria's counter arguments are by reading their press releases.
http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/ ... vi5kq.html

Even more interesting is that the Syrian propaganda "angle" is not the same as the Russian propaganda "angle" suggesting Syria and Russia have not exchanged propaganda notes. :D

Tom Palven
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Re: The Associated Press

Postby Tom Palven » Wed Apr 12, 2017 12:20 pm

Matthew Ellard wrote:
Tom Palven wrote:https://www.rt.com/news/384408-syria-no-chemical-weapons-russia/


Out of general interest, there is a group in Sydney who claim that ISIS "false flagged" the chemical attack, also without any evidence and with mere conjecture. However, they are being "fed" by Syria so you can sort of assess what Syria's counter arguments are by reading their press releases.
http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/ ... vi5kq.html

Even more interesting is that the Syrian propaganda "angle" is not the same as the Russian propaganda "angle" suggesting Syria and Russia have not exchanged propaganda notes. :D


I would suggest that the reason that Assad and Putin have speculated differently on where the chemicals came from is that they really don't know, and that the chemicals were supplied to some rebels or mercenaries by the CIA.

The CIA has a long history of planting false flags and creating disinformation when overthrowing governments.

The very idea that the Syrian government would use chemical weapons at this time seems to be, as Putin said, a crock of {!#%@}, which of course the Associated Press dutifully repeats again and again as settled science.
If one can be taught to believe absurdities, one can commit atrocities. --Voltaire


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