Spontanious human combustion

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Spontanious human combustion

Postby surrounded » Fri Jun 15, 2007 3:03 am

.....myth, or what , haven't heard of it happening in "modern times" a Victorian era phenomenon?

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Postby DaSani » Fri Jun 15, 2007 3:25 am

There has been anecdotal accounts post-Victorian times (the Reeser case for instance) but nothing in the way of hard evidence that people burst into flames for no apparent reason.

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Postby bigtim » Thu Jun 21, 2007 6:08 pm

Actually it's been pretty much fully debunked. All it took was a study of how fire worked and some experimentation. If I get time I'll try to dig up data to show.
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Re: Spontanious human combustion

Postby Kevin Levites » Fri Dec 07, 2007 12:46 pm

I saw a special on T.V. about this, and they were able to duplicate it with a dead pig (no, I'm not kidding).

If someone is wrapped up in a blanket and has a heart attack while smoking a cigarette, a small fire in the blanket will cause the fat to liquefy and leach into the blanket, where it acts like a wick in a kerosene lamp.

The heat causes more fat to leach out, which sustains the small fire, and the body is gradually cremated piecemeal over a period of seven or eight hours . . . all without destroying the room that the body is in.

The show was pretty interesting. The pig was lying in bed in a re-created room, and videotaped over the course of a day.

This doesn't mean that there is no such thing as spontaneous human combustion, but there is no evidence of it.

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P.S. There was an article in Skeptical Inquirer about a woman named Phyllis who went up in flames in a dance hall called "Requiem (sp?) for Phyllis" about "spontaneous human confabulation" or some such. It traced how an unfortunate accident with a sweet young woman was blown up into a magical event with unearthly flames that was written up in Fate as a paranormal event.
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Re: Spontanious human combustion

Postby St. Jimmy » Fri Dec 07, 2007 3:01 pm

The pig thing is probably not what people uysually have in mind. Of course humans are flammable, sepecially if they're wearing flammable clothing and don't think to get outof them when they catch fire (which can be quite wuick). Of course, nothing ever happens "spontaneously" in the sense that it doesn't have a cause. That's not how nature works.
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Re: Spontanious human combustion

Postby Pyrrho » Sat Dec 08, 2007 2:24 am

http://www.csicop.org/si/9611/shc.html

Experiments show that liquefied human fat burns at a temperature of about two hundred and fifty° Celsius; however, a cloth wick placed in such fat will burn even when the temperature falls as low as twenty-four° Celsius (Dee 1965). In an 1854 English case, a woman's body had been partially destroyed in the span of two hours; it was explained that "beneath the body there was a hempen mat, so combustible, owing to the melted human fat with which it was impregnated, that when ignited it burnt like a link [i.e., a pitch torch]" (Stevenson 1883, 718-27).
Even a lean body contains a significant amount of fat, which is present even in the bone marrow (Snyder 1967, 233, 242). Indeed, "once the body starts to burn, there is enough fat and inflammable substances to permit varying amounts of destruction to take place. Sometimes this destruction by burning will proceed to a degree which results in almost complete combustion of the body," as police officials reported in the Mary Reeser case (Blizin 1951). Moreover, in general, "women burn hotter and quicker than men, because proportionally, women carry more fat" (Bennett n.d.).

Arnold tries to compare favorably the partial destruction of bodies that occurs in his SHC cases (in which limbs, large segments of bone, and other matter may remain, although that which does is rarely quantified or described scientifically) with the more complete destruction typical of crematories. But this is an apples-versus-oranges comparison at best. As Drysdale (1989) explains:
In a crematorium you need high temperatures-around 1,300° C, or even higher-to reduce the body to ash in a relatively short period of time. But it's a misconception to think you need those temperatures within a living room to reduce a body to ash in this way. You can produce local, high temperatures, by means of the wick effect and a combination of smouldering and flaming to reduce even bones to ash. At relatively low temperatures of 500 ° C-and if given enough time-the bone will transform into something approaching a powder in composition.



Also

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/158853.stm

Dr John de Haan of the California Criminalistic Institute used a dead pig in a gruesome experiment to show that small flames can consume a human being with the help of burning body fat.

A pig was used because it closely resembles a human's fat content.

The pig was wrapped in a blanket and a small amount of petrol was poured on it.

After five hours of continuous burning the bones were being destroyed.


Paper online:

http://www.forensic-science-society.org.uk/DeHaan.pdf
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Re: Spontanious human combustion

Postby Nobilis » Fri Dec 21, 2007 3:28 am

Gives a whole new meaning to "burning the fat off".
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Re: Spontanious human combustion

Postby psychiatry is a scam » Thu Dec 15, 2016 6:05 am

Kevin Levites wrote:I saw a special on T.V. about this, and they were able to duplicate it with a dead pig (no, I'm not kidding).

If someone is wrapped up in a blanket and has a heart attack while smoking a cigarette, a small fire in the blanket will cause the fat to liquefy and leach into the blanket, where it acts like a wick in a kerosene lamp.

The heat causes more fat to leach out, which sustains the small fire, and the body is gradually cremated piecemeal over a period of seven or eight hours . . . all without destroying the room that the body is in.

The show was pretty interesting. The pig was lying in bed in a re-created room, and videotaped over the course of a day.

This doesn't mean that there is no such thing as spontaneous human combustion, but there is no evidence of it.

Best,
---Kevin

P.S. There was an article in Skeptical Inquirer about a woman named Phyllis who went up in flames in a dance hall called "Requiem (sp?) for Phyllis" about "spontaneous human confabulation" or some such. It traced how an unfortunate accident with a sweet young woman was blown up into a magical event with unearthly flames that was written up in Fate as a paranormal event.



kind of wondering - 9 years ? this was your last post till dec 8th 16
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Re: Spontanious human combustion

Postby Gord » Thu Dec 15, 2016 12:13 pm

psychiatry is a scam wrote:kind of wondering - 9 years ? this was your last post till dec 8th 16

What an odd question. I like it!
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Re: Spontanious human combustion

Postby TJrandom » Thu Dec 15, 2016 4:30 pm

;) A slow burn...

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Re: Spontanious human combustion

Postby Austin Harper » Thu Dec 15, 2016 6:38 pm

I was confused by pias's post because Kevin Levites has deleted his post but when I checked his profile I saw that he was, in fact, active on Fri Dec 09, 2016 5:39 am. What did he say?
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Re: Spontanious human combustion

Postby scrmbldggs » Thu Dec 15, 2016 9:54 pm

:hmm: Now I'm getting confused. A search of the user's posts shows eight new ones in various topics since his reappearance on Dec 8. Dunno what was deleted...


...but then again, I thought reawakening this topic revolved around this past year and recent national news anyway. :-P
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Re: Spontanious human combustion

Postby OlegTheBatty » Thu Dec 15, 2016 10:39 pm

If we all can burn, that must mean we are all witches.

Hey, Education System:! Where's my fireball spell!!! :shakefist:
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Re: Spontanious human combustion

Postby scrmbldggs » Thu Dec 15, 2016 10:49 pm

Spoiler:
. :mm:












. :beach:
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Re: Spontanious human combustion

Postby Gord » Thu Dec 15, 2016 11:15 pm

OlegTheBatty wrote:Hey, Education System:! Where's my fireball spell!!! :shakefist:

Image
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Re: Spontanious human combustion

Postby psychiatry is a scam » Wed Dec 21, 2016 4:51 am

Austin Harper wrote:I was confused by pias's post because Kevin Levites has deleted his post but when I checked his profile I saw that he was, in fact, active on Fri Dec 09, 2016 5:39 am. What did he say?



if you search his posts you will see he joined 11-1-2006
this post - spontanious (spell chek) human combustion is dated Friday 12-7-2007 8:46 am

his next post is dated 12-8-2016

just wondering where he has bean
for the real minority ; there will be no justice , there will be no peace .
makes sense 2me , so it has 2be wrong .

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Re: Spontanious human combustion

Postby Gord » Wed Dec 21, 2016 3:47 pm

He's bean up the stalk.
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Re: Spontanious human combustion

Postby Lance Kennedy » Fri Dec 23, 2016 10:59 pm

Human fat is flammable. The wick effect can ignite it. Or else any high enough temperature.

To Get "spontaneous" combustion, you need two things.
1. The person who is fuel must be deeply unconscious or dead.
2. Sufficient heat must be applied.

Such cases should be taken as a strong indicator that a murder has been done. The victim was killed, and then something burning put on top of his/her body. When the flames get through the skin to the fat layer, the fat burns, and the whole body is consumed.

It would be rare for this to happen accidentally.


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