Harry Reid's UFO Investigation

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Harry Reid's UFO Investigation

Post by Bart Stewart » Sat Dec 16, 2017 7:07 pm

Here we go again. Just as you thought you had heard the last gurgle of the death rattle of UFO mania, it gets a puff of CPR.

It turns out that from 2007 until 2012, the Pentagon ran a UFO investigation, initially at the behest of Sen. Harry Reid of Nevada (UFO Central.) This was reported just today in the New York Times. True believers are already saying that the program is still in business.

It apparently wasn't a very well funded program. $22 million is a tiny fraction of what the Pentagon spends annually on toothpicks.

Another red flag for me is the person whom Sen. Reid initially sought out to receive most of the funding for this program -- his old friend, Robert Bigelow. Isn't that a name that has popped up before on this forum? He is a wealthy businessman with a long-time preoccupation with UFOs and space aliens.

Mr. Reid, who retired from Congress this year, said he was proud of the program. “I’m not embarrassed or ashamed or sorry I got this thing going,” Mr. Reid said in a recent interview in Nevada. “I think it’s one of the good things I did in my congressional service. I’ve done something that no one has done before.”

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/16/us/p ... -reid.html

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Re: Harry Reid's UFO Investigation

Post by TJrandom » Sat Dec 16, 2017 7:32 pm

It sounds like a bit of Oink Oink, if you ask me.... :abd:

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Re: Harry Reid's UFO Investigation

Post by Poodle » Sat Dec 16, 2017 7:58 pm

I have it on good authority (you know the stuff - don't force me to tell you or you're mince) - that the program yielded world-shattering results. I'm not at liberty to give you details but, believe me, they're world shattering.

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Re: Harry Reid's UFO Investigation

Post by Bart Stewart » Sat Dec 16, 2017 8:30 pm

Poodle wrote:I have it on good authority (you know the stuff - don't force me to tell you or you're mince) - that the program yielded world-shattering results. I'm not at liberty to give you details but, believe me, they're world shattering.
That's probably a pretty close approximation of what will come of this from the UFO campers -- from now on! Of course, no results of the program have been offered! Not one iota of new information is involved in any of this, apart from the mere fact that somebody in the government authorized spending a microbe of the Pentagon budget on it. (If it was so compelling, why didn't they spend some money?)

This story raises one of the main skeptical points about UFOs. Which is simply that pilots and generals and admirals (and senators) are human and can be mistaken about these things, just like fishermen and cab drivers.

I used to be a Loch Ness Monster buff in my youth. We saw this same kind of thing, time and time again, with that now moribund mystery. Years and years, decades, would go by with no news, then -- pow. Some inconclusive study or new blurry photo, and we were back in business again.

The UFO religion/industry will milk this Pentagon program to the last drop, and then some. Not one atom of new evidence has been offered, but you will be hearing about the great, paradigm-shifting significance of this program for the rest of your life.

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Re: Harry Reid's UFO Investigation

Post by Pyrrho » Sat Dec 16, 2017 9:48 pm

Read my sig.
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Re: Harry Reid's UFO Investigation

Post by Gawdzilla Sama » Sat Dec 16, 2017 11:02 pm

Pyrrho wrote:Read my sig.
Can't, I have you on ignore.
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Re: Harry Reid's UFO Investigation

Post by Aztexan » Sat Dec 16, 2017 11:22 pm

It says for questions or concerns to send an email or a PM
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Re: Harry Reid's UFO Investigation

Post by scrmbldggs » Sat Dec 16, 2017 11:40 pm

Uh-oh, you can't read it. That means you're one of "them". :shock:
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Re: Harry Reid's UFO Investigation

Post by OlegTheBatty » Sun Dec 17, 2017 10:31 pm

Cain't read whut? :scratch:
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Re: Harry Reid's UFO Investigation

Post by scrmbldggs » Sun Dec 17, 2017 11:05 pm

:cry2:
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Re: Harry Reid's UFO Investigation

Post by Bart Stewart » Mon Dec 18, 2017 1:39 am

Something just occurred to me. The existence of this Pentagon UFO investigation stands as solid proof that the government has no knowledge of UFOs! Right? If they knew all about them, why would they have a need to investigate them?

I think the entire (massive) conspiracy theory of a government cover-up of UFOs has just gone right down the crapper!

Am I right? Am I missing something? Judging by the existence of this investigation, apparently the government doesn't know any more about UFOs than anybody else!

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Re: Harry Reid's UFO Investigation

Post by Matthew Ellard » Mon Dec 18, 2017 4:49 am

Bart Stewart wrote:Something just occurred to me. The existence of this Pentagon UFO investigation stands as solid proof that the government has no knowledge of UFOs! Right? If they knew all about them, why would they have a need to investigate them?


I think it is a storm in a teacup. The Advanced Aviation Threat Identification Program was actually closed in 2012 and no report was ever issued, even though it is not classified. :D
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Advanced_ ... on_Program

"Politico published a statement by a former staff member that, “After a while the consensus was we really couldn’t find anything of substance,” ...“They produced reams of paperwork. After all of that there was really nothing there that we could find. It all pretty much dissolved from that reason alone—and the interest level was losing steam. We only did it a couple years"

"One possible theory behind the unexplained incidents, according to a former congressional staffer who described the motivations behind the program, was that a foreign power—perhaps the Chinese or the Russians—had developed next-generation technologies that could threaten the United States. “Was this China or Russia trying to do something or has some propulsion system we are not familiar with?” said a former staffer who spoke with POLITICO on condition of anonymity."
https://www.politico.com/magazine/story ... eid-216111

The Russian use faster than sound underwater torpedoes. The USA's submarine boomer fleet became worthless against Russia. The USA isn't going to let that happen again. :D

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Re: Harry Reid's UFO Investigation

Post by JO 753 » Mon Dec 18, 2017 9:31 am

The evening newz included video from an F-16. They prezented it az a strate up story.

Didnt see it on Youtube, but there iz this Good Morning America, in wich they do the standard 'make it goofy' prezentation.
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Re: Harry Reid's UFO Investigation

Post by TJrandom » Mon Dec 18, 2017 9:56 am

The investigators weren`t looking in the right place. All they needed to do is review the Discovery channel programs.

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Re: Harry Reid's UFO Investigation

Post by Gawdzilla Sama » Mon Dec 18, 2017 2:34 pm

TJrandom wrote:The investigators weren`t looking in the right place. All they needed to do is review the Discovery channel programs.
Have they converted all the brown-paper-bag-and-crayon documents to digital yet?
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Re: Harry Reid's UFO Investigation

Post by Matthew Ellard » Mon Dec 18, 2017 9:40 pm

JO 753 wrote:The evening newz included video from an F-16. They prezented it az a strate up story.
[bbvideo=560,315]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DqNNXpgB2bw[/bbvideo]

Tell me what you notice about the UFO and it's position in relation to the "heads up display". It doesn't move. What does that first suggest? :D

There is a 60's Polish science fiction called Tales of Pirx the pilot. In one story, he also chases a heads up display anomaly in his spaceship.

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Re: Harry Reid's UFO Investigation

Post by xouper » Mon Dec 18, 2017 10:42 pm

Matthew Ellard wrote:The Russian use faster than sound underwater torpedoes. The USA's submarine boomer fleet became worthless against Russia. The USA isn't going to let that happen again.
If I may ask, would you help me find more information about this alleged "faster than sound" torpedo?

A quick google search turns up this:
Business Insider wrote:. . . has an impressive speed of over 200 knots, far faster than any NATO torpedo, making it difficult to stop. However, it has range of less than ten miles compared to more than 30 for the US Mk 48. Shkval is also limited by the fact that it cannot use sonar guidance when travelling at speed. Western analysts have tended to be scathing about the Shkval, calling it a suicide weapon because of its short range. One Russian commentator described it as ‘amusing but useless’.
Although 200 knots is quite impressive, it's not anywhere near being supersonic*, nor does it have a very good range.

Since that does not match your description, I assume you had something else in mind? I also assume you read about it somewhere, so perhaps you still a have a citation you can share with us?



__________________________________________________________________
* Footnote: The speed of sound in air at 20 °C (68 °F) is 343 meters per second (767 mph or 667 knots). In water the speed of sound (sonar) is about 4.3 times faster than that.

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Re: Harry Reid's UFO Investigation

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Mon Dec 18, 2017 11:16 pm

Uncharateristically, Matt is confusing want with have.

Supercavitating Torpedo | Popular Science
https://www.popsci.com/scitech/article/ ... ng-torpedo

Jun 1, 2004 - Water creates speed-sapping drag; the best way to overcome that drag is to create a bubble that envelops the torpedo--a supercavity. A gas ejected uniformly and with enough force through a cavitator in the nose of the torpedo will provide such a bubble, permitting speeds of more than 200 mph and a ...
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Re: Harry Reid's UFO Investigation

Post by Zealous » Tue Dec 19, 2017 12:05 am

Matthew Ellard wrote:
JO 753 wrote:The evening newz included video from an F-16. They prezented it az a strate up story.
[bbvideo=560,315]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DqNNXpgB2bw[/bbvideo]

Tell me what you notice about the UFO and it's position in relation to the "heads up display". It doesn't move. What does that first suggest? :D

There is a 60's Polish science fiction called Tales of Pirx the pilot. In one story, he also chases a heads up display anomaly in his spaceship.
Matthew you OBVIOUSLY don't know anything military hardware and todays targeting pods with FLIR. This isn't the 1960s and today's systems will keep the target dead center with no to little jitter. Too bad you don't know what you don't know, especially about military hardware, but you do like to come here and pretend to be the most intelligent person ever born.

Let me give you a hint. This wasn't a retired F-14 Tomcat with a 1970s FLIR fixed to the nose. It was an external pod that swivels and points..... Um.... Do you remember back to GWI and the F-117 bomb strikes being displayed from the AC's FLIR. That but decades more advanced.

But again, like Chilean military pilots, these US military pilots were fooled by balloons and helicopters and drones from Toys R Us. Oh, and these toys and helicopters were flying in 120kt winds. Not too mention the FLIR image doesn't match any known fixed wing, or rotary wing aircraft, and the rotation that begins is indicative that it isn't lighter than air (doing so slowly in 120kt winds).

If you want to can go google the bombing run the F-111s did during Eldorado Canyon and do a side by side comparison, but again, you're looking a a delta of 35 to 40 years in FLIR and camera stabilization technology.

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Re: Harry Reid's UFO Investigation

Post by Matthew Ellard » Tue Dec 19, 2017 3:49 am

Zealous wrote: Matthew you OBVIOUSLY don't know anything military hardware and todays targeting pods with FLIR. This isn't the 1960s and today's systems will keep the target dead center with no to little jitter.
Firstly the object is not "dead centre" is it? Secondly, it doesn't move with the clouds, which it should . It stays in frame lock with the HUD. Didn't you notice? It's an artefact.

Thirdly, you're the idiot who claimed Japan and Chile officially recognised aliens UFOS were real and then ran away when asked to produce evidence for your claim......remember? :lol:
Zealous wrote: There are many examples of countries and their leaders taking sides with the UFO community.
http://www.skepticforum.com/viewtopic.p ... 51#p615009

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Re: Harry Reid's UFO Investigation

Post by JO 753 » Tue Dec 19, 2017 5:16 am

That video woud be very eazy to fake theze dayz. Sumbody with an ordinary stock home computer with consumer level software coud do it in 30 minits.

The only way we can tell if its real iz if it iz authenticated by the airforse.
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Re: Harry Reid's UFO Investigation

Post by Matthew Ellard » Tue Dec 19, 2017 6:24 am

JO 753 wrote:That video woud be very eazy to fake theze dayz. Sumbody with an ordinary stock home computer with consumer level software coud do it in 30 minits. The only way we can tell if its real iz if it iz authenticated by the airforse.
Actually, I think we both need to wait on this one. The whole story is a bit more complex. It has an underwater object causing "white water"(visual) and a UFO doing impossible maneuvers (radar) and a HUD video that seems to have an artifact. Also the story is from four years before the Pentagon program started! The pilots are named but it's hard to say when they talked to the press. One's now retired and the other "went to Iraq". :D

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Re: Harry Reid's UFO Investigation

Post by Matthew Ellard » Tue Dec 19, 2017 6:52 am

An operations officer aboard the U.S.S. Princeton, a Navy cruiser, wanted to know if they were carrying weapons.

“Two CATM-9s,” Commander Fravor (pilot) replied, referring to dummy missiles that could not be fired. He had not been expecting any hostile exchanges off the coast of San Diego that November afternoon in 2004.

“Well, we’ve got a real-world vector for you,” the radio operator said, according to Commander Fravor. For two weeks, the operator said, the Princeton had been tracking mysterious aircraft. The objects appeared suddenly at 80,000 feet, and then hurtled toward the sea, eventually stopping at 20,000 feet and hovering. Then they either dropped out of radar range or shot straight back up.


The fighter jets returned to the Nimitz, where everyone on the ship had learned of Commander Fravor’s encounter and was making fun of him.

Hang on. The pilots only know what weapons, their aircraft, are carrying. It's the operations officer on the Nimitz, who knows what the squad is carrying because he picks the targets for the squad. How come the operations manager on the Princeton, doesn't contact the Nimitz in confidence but openly asks the pilot on open channel and then sends them to intercept without weapons?

We are missing a big chunk of this story.
:D

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Re: Harry Reid's UFO Investigation

Post by Matthew Ellard » Tue Dec 19, 2017 7:48 am

http://www.popularmechanics.com/militar ... ith-a-ufo/

You have two navy pilots returning to their carrier with a video recording of the HUD UFO. They go through their mission debrief with their operations officer. "See.......there is a UFO on the video" . That should be the end of story. However....

The fighter jets returned to the Nimitz, where everyone on the ship had learned of Commander Fravor’s encounter and was making fun of him.

Something doesn't add up. Again, let's wait for more information.

The recent re-reporting
"The first was large and just below the surface of the water, causing the water to churn. The second object hovered just 50 feet above the water, moving erratically."
Top Places for Whale Watching in California | Visit California

The Earlier actual exchange.
http://www.popularmechanics.com/militar ... ith-a-ufo/
(Pilot)FAST EAGLES (110/100) COULD NOT FIND UNID AIRBORNE CONTACT AT LOCATION GIVEN BY PRINCETON. WHILE SEARCHING FOR UNID AIR CONTACT, FAST EAGLES SPOTTED LARGE UNID OBJECT IN WATER AT 1430L. PILOTS SAW STEAM/ SMOKE/CHURNING AROUND OBJECT. PILOT DESCRIBES OBJECT INITIALLY AS RESEMBLING A DOWNED AIRLINER, ALSO STATED THAT IT WAS MUCH LARGER THAN A SUBMARINE.

Back in the sky
We know a little more about the UFO itself. It is described as “wingless, white, and shaped like an oblong pill. It was 24-30 (40 in the NYT article) feet long and had no visible markings or glass. The USS Princeton was able to faintly track the “capsule” via its SPY-1B radar system, but the fighters were not able to get a radar lock on the object. The “capsule” was not only more maneuverable than the Hornets but also much faster —for it to have reached the CAP point ahead of the Navy fighters it would have had to have flown in excess of 2,400 miles an hour

“There’s a whole fleet of them. Look on the S.A.” This appears to be a reference to the Super Hornet’s synthetic aperture radar, which would have been scanning targets beyond visual range, implying that there were even more UFOs keeping their distance from the jet fighters.

What did we all learn about radar and false readings? The video will define what the real story is if it is authentic.

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Re: Harry Reid's UFO Investigation

Post by Genaro » Tue Dec 19, 2017 2:02 pm

Well, well, well, well...what have we here.

It's not a "conspiracy" or a "theory", if it's right out in the open.

On the Trail of a Secret Pentagon U.F.O. Program

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/18/insi ... ogram.html

Just to make it even better for mindfu*&^ing the resident pseudo-skeptic denialists, it was right on the FRONT PAGE of the Sunday New York Times!!

Hey Matthew, how many hours have you logged in an F-18?

Apparently not any......but as usual that didn't stop you from pretending to be an expert. You are one dumb Aussie.

Cheers!

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Re: Harry Reid's UFO Investigation

Post by Bart Stewart » Tue Dec 19, 2017 7:55 pm

Matthew Ellard wrote:
Bart Stewart wrote:Something just occurred to me. The existence of this Pentagon UFO investigation stands as solid proof that the government has no knowledge of UFOs! Right? If they knew all about them, why would they have a need to investigate them?


I think it is a storm in a teacup. The Advanced Aviation Threat Identification Program was actually closed in 2012 and no report was ever issued, even though it is not classified. :D
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Advanced_ ... on_Program

"Politico published a statement by a former staff member that, “After a while the consensus was we really couldn’t find anything of substance,” ...“They produced reams of paperwork. After all of that there was really nothing there that we could find. It all pretty much dissolved from that reason alone—and the interest level was losing steam. We only did it a couple years"

"One possible theory behind the unexplained incidents, according to a former congressional staffer who described the motivations behind the program, was that a foreign power—perhaps the Chinese or the Russians—had developed next-generation technologies that could threaten the United States. “Was this China or Russia trying to do something or has some propulsion system we are not familiar with?” said a former staffer who spoke with POLITICO on condition of anonymity."
https://www.politico.com/magazine/story ... eid-216111

The Russian use faster than sound underwater torpedoes. The USA's submarine boomer fleet became worthless against Russia. The USA isn't going to let that happen again. :D
Not sure about super-sonic underwater travel, but apart from that you have sort of side-stepped my point. According to UFO campers, the government is in contact with the UFO critters. They are covering it up, but they have known alllllll about the reality of UFOs since Roswell in the 1940s.

Now we are told that they "studied" the phenomena for a few years at the instigation of Harry Reid, ending in 2012. Didn't devote much of a budget to this earth-shaking investigation, but they had a study.

This merely vaporizes the whole notion that the government has known all about UFOs for decades, and were covering it up! THAT is important. THAT is the ONLY thing important in this whole inconclusive story!

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Re: Harry Reid's UFO Investigation

Post by Bart Stewart » Tue Dec 19, 2017 8:27 pm

Genaro wrote:Well, well, well, well...what have we here.

It's not a "conspiracy" or a "theory", if it's right out in the open.

On the Trail of a Secret Pentagon U.F.O. Program

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/18/insi ... ogram.html

Just to make it even better for mindfu*&^ing the resident pseudo-skeptic denialists, it was right on the FRONT PAGE of the Sunday New York Times!!

Hey Matthew, how many hours have you logged in an F-18?

Apparently not any......but as usual that didn't stop you from pretending to be an expert. You are one dumb Aussie.

Cheers!
Well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, what we have here is . . . zilch. Apart from the fact that we can now lay to rest the notion that the government has been covering up knowledge of UFOs for decades. The government has apparently known nothing about any UFOs -- for decades. Otherwise there would be no need to launch a study of them! Right?

Harry Reid is a mortal human like anybody else, and is capable of getting things wrong. Especially under the influence of a friend who is a dyed-in-the-wool UFO true believer.

For that matter, heroic fighter pilots are not incapable of error. There was a famous story of a pilot in Vietnam who nearly crashed trying to avoid a glowing red ball that seemed to stay in a fixed position in front of his plane. It was later revealed that the plane had been installed with a new canopy of a kind that became infamous for reflecting interior lights. He was trying to avoid a light from his own instrument panel.

By the way, the New York Times did not run a headline that said, "Extraterrestrial UFOs Are Proven to Be Real!!!" Though, clearly, that is how you are spinning it. All it said was that the government spent (not much) money on a study of UFOs. Apparently they didn't have any prior knowledge of there being any UFOs, and so for a few years they looked into it, at the insistence of one powerful senator. No conclusions have been offered from this study. As far as we know, the blurry world of UFOs remains utterly unchanged from what it was before this epochal, pivotal, paradigm-shifting study was revealed.

But, hey, enjoy a day or so of empty, unsupported smugness, if you are in need.

Merry Christmas.

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Re: Harry Reid's UFO Investigation

Post by Genaro » Tue Dec 19, 2017 9:07 pm

Apparently they didn't have any prior knowledge of there being any UFOs
Apparently you've never heard of Project Blue Book.

So, you probably want to rethink that entire post.

And a very Merry Christmas to you as well, Bart.

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Re: Harry Reid's UFO Investigation

Post by Matthew Ellard » Tue Dec 19, 2017 9:26 pm

Genaro wrote:Well, well, well, well...what have we here. It's not a "conspiracy" or a "theory", if it's right out in the open.
Yep Pentagon's Advanced Aerospace Threat Identification Program opened and closed in five years without discovering any alien UFOS while looking for new Russian and Chinese technology. The is no report saying there is alien UFOs.
Genaro wrote:Hey Matthew, how many hours have you logged in an F-18?
None. Dad was a Group Commander in the Royal Australian Airforce and I know about post mission debriefs. You don't.

Why was are you running away from the video. If the HUD video showed a UFO then when he landed then why did everyone laugh at him?

"The fighter jets returned to the Nimitz, where everyone on the ship had learned of Commander Fravor’s encounter and was making fun of him."

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Re: Harry Reid's UFO Investigation

Post by Matthew Ellard » Tue Dec 19, 2017 9:40 pm

Bart Stewart wrote: This merely vaporizes the whole notion that the government has known all about UFOs for decades, and were covering it up! THAT is important. THAT is the ONLY thing important in this whole inconclusive story!
I don't think anyone has got the point. It wasn't a study into alien UFOs. The Advanced Aviation Threat Identification Program was there to look for new Russian and Chinese military aviation technology. That's why it was run by the Pentagon.

Secondly the Navy F-18 story is four years before this program, was first published as a story in Aviation week in 2007, and at face value the pilot of the first two F18s spotted whales off California while one cruiser had ongoing inversion radar problems. We are reading a ten year old known story. Only the video is new, and claimed to come from a second squad of F-18s, where the pilots are not named, and probably a recent fake. Here is the original 2007 descriptions again.

Whales
(Pilot)FAST EAGLES (110/100) COULD NOT FIND UNID AIRBORNE CONTACT AT LOCATION GIVEN BY PRINCETON. WHILE SEARCHING FOR UNID AIR CONTACT, FAST EAGLES SPOTTED LARGE UNID OBJECT IN WATER AT 1430L. PILOTS SAW STEAM/ SMOKE/CHURNING AROUND OBJECT. PILOT DESCRIBES OBJECT INITIALLY AS RESEMBLING A DOWNED AIRLINER, ALSO STATED THAT IT WAS MUCH LARGER THAN A SUBMARINE.

The USS Princeton had clearly stated it had been picking up false radar reading for a month. The 2 F18s could not get a radar lock. This is the same scenario as the Washington UFO flap.

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Re: Harry Reid's UFO Investigation

Post by Matthew Ellard » Wed Dec 20, 2017 1:02 am

Genaro wrote: Apparently you've never heard of Project Blue Book.
We quoted directly from it in the other thread.

You have never read the declassified Blue book reports, have you?
:lol:
http://www.skepticforum.com/viewtopic.p ... ok#p605384

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Re: Harry Reid's UFO Investigation

Post by JO 753 » Wed Dec 20, 2017 1:29 am

Bart Stewart wrote:This merely vaporizes the whole notion that the government has known all about UFOs for decades, and were covering it up! THAT is important. THAT is the ONLY thing important in this whole inconclusive story!
You are assuming The Goverment iz a monolithic unit. It iz not.

Congressmen, Senatorz, Governorz, and all elected officialz are usually just chump sitizenz before they get their job and most uv them remain so after.

Generalz, Admiralz, etc etc, the hiyer ups in the military get sum level uv security clearans, same az the intel ajensyz. Even at that level therez alot uv 'need to know' secrets.

Even the Prez (thank the God uv Paranoia) duznt get to know everything in spite uv any lawz.
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Re: Harry Reid's UFO Investigation

Post by Matthew Ellard » Wed Dec 20, 2017 1:35 am

Bart Stewart wrote: Not sure about super-sonic underwater travel,
It's called a supercaviation rocket. The font of the underwater rocket uses hydrogen peroxide to blow a gas envelope around the front of the missile. The first version, the Shkval was from the late 1960's and entered service in 1975. The new version, the Khishchnik entered service about four months ago on modified Yasen-class Submarines, using a new propulsion system. The Khishchnik's cannot home onto target because of noise and are targeted by wire.

The older Shkval torpedo technology was exported by Russia to Iran where it is called the Hoot. The US Navy version never entered production after the program was closed in 2006. The USN considers hydrogen peroxide too dangerous.

The Russian submarine Kursk was sunk, in 2000, when a Shkval failed to leave the tube and blew up.

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Re: Harry Reid's UFO Investigation

Post by Matthew Ellard » Wed Dec 20, 2017 1:51 am

JO 753 wrote:You are assuming The Goverment iz a monolithic unit. It iz not.

There is a lot of doubling up.

The USA Directorate for Science and Technology monitors all military technological developments of other nations for the Defence Intelligence Agency. An example is the Advanced Aerospace Threat Identification Program. Simultaneously NATO does the same thing for NATO's members.....including the USA.

This is going on continuously because the Russians are about to reach their 2020 conversion goal, from a conscript army to a professional army and are changing over their equipment. I went to Moscow to look at a new Russian T-14 tank.
:D

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Re: Harry Reid's UFO Investigation

Post by xouper » Wed Dec 20, 2017 2:08 am

I never did get a direct answer to this:
xouper wrote:
Matthew Ellard wrote:The Russian use faster than sound underwater torpedoes. The USA's submarine boomer fleet became worthless against Russia. The USA isn't going to let that happen again.
If I may ask, would you help me find more information about this alleged "faster than sound" torpedo?

A quick google search turns up this:
Business Insider wrote:. . . has an impressive speed of over 200 knots, far faster than any NATO torpedo, making it difficult to stop. However, it has range of less than ten miles compared to more than 30 for the US Mk 48. Shkval is also limited by the fact that it cannot use sonar guidance when travelling at speed. Western analysts have tended to be scathing about the Shkval, calling it a suicide weapon because of its short range. One Russian commentator described it as ‘amusing but useless’.
Although 200 knots is quite impressive, it's not anywhere near being supersonic*, nor does it have a very good range.

Since that does not match your description, I assume you had something else in mind? I also assume you read about it somewhere, so perhaps you still a have a citation you can share with us?



__________________________________________________________________
* Footnote: The speed of sound in air at 20 °C (68 °F) is 343 meters per second (767 mph or 667 knots). In water the speed of sound (sonar) is about 4.3 times faster than that.
But you did post this:
Matthew Ellard wrote:
Bart Stewart wrote: Not sure about super-sonic underwater travel,

It's called a supercaviation [sic] rocket. The font of the underwater rocket uses hydrogen peroxide to blow a gas envelope around the front of the missile. . . .
Can we assume that when you originally wrote "faster than sound" (which is synonymous with "supersonic"), what you actually had in mind was "supercavitation" (which is not synonymous with "supersonic")?

Both bobbo and I had posted links to descriptions of supercavitation torpedos, so if that's what you had in mind, then we can consider your original comment an unintentional (and forgivable) misstatement, and we can move on.

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Re: Harry Reid's UFO Investigation

Post by xouper » Wed Dec 20, 2017 2:14 am

Matthew Ellard wrote:. . . I went to Moscow to look at a new Russian T-14 tank.
If I may ask, when did you do that? And why? Did they let you take it for a test drive?

Image

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Re: Harry Reid's UFO Investigation

Post by TJrandom » Wed Dec 20, 2017 3:58 am

X - Silly question! Look who is in the drivers seat... :lol:

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Re: Harry Reid's UFO Investigation

Post by Bart Stewart » Wed Dec 20, 2017 5:24 am

Genaro wrote:
Apparently they didn't have any prior knowledge of there being any UFOs
Apparently you've never heard of Project Blue Book.

So, you probably want to rethink that entire post.

And a very Merry Christmas to you as well, Bart.
Nope. Project Blue Book, and before that Project Sign, did not verify the existence of anything extraterrestrial or other-worldly in any way. No need to rethink any part of that post.

Matthew says that the recent program was about researching Russian and Chinese aviation threats. The prominent presence of UFO guru Robert Bigelow suggests to me there was some interest in something else as well. In any event, the project was shut down within five years, after reaching no conclusions.

Inconclusive. Not unlike Project Blue Book, and before that Project Sign.

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Re: Harry Reid's UFO Investigation

Post by JO 753 » Wed Dec 20, 2017 8:19 am

Bart Stewart wrote:Nope. Project Blue Book, and before that Project Sign, did not verify the existence of anything extraterrestrial or other-worldly in any way.
Misleading and incorrect.

Blue Book wuz a rezoundingly seksedful propaganda campane to catagoricly discredit all UFO reports. It wuz not an investigation.

Sign determined that many UFOz were probably aircraft that were not made by the US or any other nation, leaving the obvious and most likely explanation unstated. (az far az I recall, anyway. Maybe they did say 'extraterrestrial')
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Re: Harry Reid's UFO Investigation

Post by Gawdzilla Sama » Wed Dec 20, 2017 10:55 am

Matthew Ellard wrote:
Genaro wrote: Apparently you've never heard of Project Blue Book.
We quoted directly from it in the other thread.

You have never read the declassified Blue book reports, have you?
:lol:
http://www.skepticforum.com/viewtopic.p ... ok#p605384
I bought the Blue Book book the day it hit the news stands.
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