Can't explain this NDE, any ideas?

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Can't explain this NDE, any ideas?

Postby Kamil » Mon Aug 07, 2017 9:09 pm

Hello guys, I have thought long and hard, and I finally agree that most NDEs are just anecdotes, and that we still cannot fully explain them, but we still have not proven that a soul actually leaves the body. No OBE has been scientifically verified, and most of these accounts are sent to researchers, so these researchers have almost always never met these experiencers. Yes, some of them sound very very compelling and impossible if they are actually true, but anyways, I have been unimpressed by most lately, with the exception of this one. Any ideas?

Jack's NDE: "At the time this happened I suffered, as I still do, a very severe case of bronchial asthma and emphysema. One day, I got into a coughing fit and apparently ruptured a disk in the lower part of my spine. For a couple of months, I consulted a number of doctors for the agonizing pain, and finally one of them referred me to a neurosurgeon, Dr. Wyatt. He saw me and told me that I needed to be admitted to the hospital immediately, so I went on in and they put me in traction right away.

"Dr. Wyatt knew that I had bad respiratory diseases so he called in a lung specialist, who said that the anesthesiologist, Dr. Coleman, should be consulted if I was going to be put to sleep. So the lung specialist worked on me for almost three weeks until he finally got me to a place where Dr. Coleman would put me under. He finally consented on a Monday, although he was very much worried about it. They scheduled the operation for the next Friday. Monday night, I went to sleep and had a restful sleep until sometime early Tuesday morning, when I woke up in severe pain. I turned over and tried to get in a more comfortable position, but just at that moment a light appeared in the corner of the room, just below the ceiling. It was just a ball of light, almost like a globe, and it was not very large, I would say no more than twelve to fifteen inches in diameter, and as this light appeared, a feeling came over me. I can't say that it was an eerie feeling, because it was not. It was a feeling of complete peace and utter relaxation. I could see a hand reach down for me from the light, and the light said:

"Come with me. I want to show you something."

"So immediately, without any hesitation whatsoever, I reached up with my hand and grabbed onto the hand I saw. As I did, I had the feeling of being drawn up and of leaving my body, and I looked back and saw it lying there on the bed while I was going up towards the ceiling of the room.

"Now, at this time, as soon as I left my body, I took on the same form as the light. I got the feeling, and I'll have to use my own words for it, because I've never heard anyone talk about anything like this, that this form was definitely a spirit. It wasn't a body, just a wisp of smoke or a vapor. It looked almost like the clouds of cigarette smoke you can see when they are illuminated as they drift around a lamp. The form I took had colors, though. There was orange, yellow, and a color that was very indistinct to me - I took it to be an indigo, a bluish color.

"This spiritual form didn't have a shape like a body. It was more or less circular, but it had what I would call a hand. I know this because when the light reached down for me, I reached up for it with my hand. Yet, the arm and hand of my body just stayed put, because I could see them lying on the bed, down by the side of my body, as I rose up to the light. But when I wasn't using this spiritual hand, the spirit went back to the circular pattern.

"So, I was drawn up to the same position the light was in, and we started moving through the ceiling and the wall of the hospital room, into the corridor, and through the corridor, down through the floors it seemed, on down to a lower floor in the hospital. We had no difficulty in passing through doors or walls. They would just fade away from us as we would approach them.

"During this period it seemed that we were traveling. I knew we were moving, yet there was no sensation of speed. And in a moment, almost instantaneously, really, I realized that we had reached the recovery room of the hospital. Now, I hadn't even known where the recovery room was at this hospital, but we got there, and again, we were in the corner of the room near the ceiling, up above everything else. I saw the doctors and nurses walking around in their green suits and saw the beds that were placed around in there. This being then told me - he showed me:

"That's where you're going to be. When they bring you off the operating table they're going to put you in that bed, but you will never awaken from that position. You'll know nothing after you go to the operating room until I come back to get you sometime after this."

"Now, I won't say this was in words. It wasn't like an audible voice, because if it had been I would have expected the others in the room to have heard the voice, and they didn't. It was more of an impression that came to me. But it was in such a vivid form that there was no way for me to say I didn't hear it or I didn't feel it. It was definite to me.

"And what I was seeing - well, it was so much easier to recognize things while I was in this spiritual form. I was now wondering, like, "Now, what is that that he is trying to show me?" I knew immediately what it was, what he had in mind. There was no doubt. It was that bed - it was the bed on the right just as you come in from the corridor - is where I'm going to be and he's brought me here for a purpose. And then he told me why. It came to me that the reason for this was that he didn't want any fear when the time came that my spirit passed from my body, but that he wanted me to know what the sensation would be on passing that point. He wanted to assure me so that I wouldn't be afraid, because he was telling me that he wouldn't be there immediately, that I would go through other things first, but that he would be overshadowing everything that happened and would be there for me at the end.

"Now, immediately, when I had joined him to take the trip to the recovery room and had become a spirit myself, in a way we had been fused into one. We were two separate ones, too, of course. Yet, he had full control of everything that was going on as far as I was concerned. And even if we were traveling through the walls and ceilings and so forth, well, it just seemed that we were in such close communion that nothing whatsoever could have bothered me. Again, it was just a peacefulness, calmness, and a serenity that have never been found anywhere else.

"So, after he told me this, he took me back to my hospital room, and as I got back I saw my body again, still lying in the same position as when we left, and instantaneously I was back in my body. I would guess that I had been out of my body for five or ten minutes, but passage of time had nothing to do with this experience. In fact, I don't remember if I had ever even thought of it as being any particular time.

"Now, this whole thing had just astounded me, took me completely by surprise. It was so vivid and real - more so than ordinary experience. And the next morning, I was not in the least afraid. When I shaved, I noticed that my hand didn't shake like it had been doing for six or eight weeks before then. I knew that I would be dying, and there was no regret, no fear. There was no thought, "What can I do to keep this from happening?" I was ready.

"Now, on Thursday afternoon, the day before the operation the next morning, I was in my hospital room, and I was worried. My wife and I have a boy, an adopted nephew, and we were then having some trouble with him. So I decided to write a letter to my wife and one to my nephew, putting some of my worries into words, and to hide the letters where they wouldn't be found until after the operation. After I had written about two pages on the letter to my wife, it was just as if the floodgates had opened. All at once, I broke out in tears, sobbing. I felt a presence, and at first I thought maybe that I had cried so loud that I had disturbed one of the nurses, and that they had come in to see what was the matter with me. But I hadn't heard the door open. And again I felt this presence, but I didn't see any light this time, and thoughts or words came to me, just as before, and he said:

"Jack, why are you crying? I thought you would be pleased to be with me."I thought, "Yes, I am. I want to go very much."

And the voice said, "Then why are you crying?"

I said, "We've had trouble with our nephew, you know, and I'm afraid my wife won't know how to raise him. I'm trying to put into words how I feel, and what I want her to try to do for him. I'm concerned, too, because I feel that maybe my presence could have settled him down some."

Then the thoughts came to me, from this presence, "Since you are not asking for someone else, and thinking of others, not Jack, I will grant what you want. You will live until you see your nephew become a man."

"And just like that, it was gone. I stopped crying, and I destroyed the letter so my wife wouldn't accidentally find it.

"That evening, Dr. Coleman came in and told me that he was expecting a lot of trouble with putting me to sleep, and for me not to be surprised to wake up and find a lot of wires and tubes and machines all around me. I didn't tell him what I had experienced, so I just nodded and said I would cooperate.

"The next morning the operation took a long time but went fine, and as I was regaining my consciousness, Dr. Coleman was there with me, and I told him:
"I know exactly where I am."

He asked, "What bed are you in?"

I said, "I'm in that first bed on the right just as you come in from the hall."

"He just kind of laughed, and of course, he thought that I was just taking from the anesthetic.



"I wanted to tell him what had happened, but just in a moment Dr. Wyatt came in and said:

"He's awake now. What do you want to do?"



And Dr. Coleman said, "There's not a thing I can do. I've never been so amazed in my life. Here I am with all this equipment set up and he doesn't need a thing."



Dr. Wyatt said, "Miracles still happen, you know."

"So, when I could get up in the bed and see around the room, I saw that I was in that same bed that the light had shown me several days before.

"Now, all this was three years ago, but it is still just as vivid as it was then. It was the most fantastic thing that has ever happened to me, and it has made a big difference. But I don't talk about it. I have only told my wife, my brother, my minister, and now you. I don't know how to say it, but this is so hard to explain. I'm not trying to make a big explosion in your life, and I'm not trying to brag. It's just that after this, I don't have any doubts anymore. I know there is life after death."

Source: Moody Jr., Raymond A., M.D., Life After Life, pages 101-107, New York, Bantam Books, 1975.

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Re: Can't explain this NDE, any ideas?

Postby scrmbldggs » Mon Aug 07, 2017 9:16 pm

Yes.
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Re: Can't explain this NDE, any ideas?

Postby Gawdzilla Sama » Mon Aug 07, 2017 9:26 pm

Must be magic if you can't explain it.
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Re: Can't explain this NDE, any ideas?

Postby Matthew Ellard » Mon Aug 07, 2017 9:50 pm

Kamil wrote:Hello guys, I have thought long and hard, and I finally agree that most NDEs are just anecdotes.


Yes. Thread has now ended.

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Re: Can't explain this NDE, any ideas?

Postby gorgeous » Mon Aug 07, 2017 10:43 pm

good story, I have the book...it is common that people near dying are shown their future and that they can exist without the body....one man was told he was going to die from a heart attack and to get his affairs in order...he did and waited to leave....a woman was told her pacemaker would fail and she would die...she told a relative to tell her husband she would be ok....
Science Fundamentalism...is exactly what happens when there’s a significant, perceived ideological threat to one’s traditions and identity.

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Re: Can't explain this NDE, any ideas?

Postby scrmbldggs » Mon Aug 07, 2017 10:45 pm

Matthew Ellard wrote:
Kamil wrote:Hello guys, I have thought long and hard, and I finally agree that most NDEs are just anecdotes.


Yes. Thread has now ended.

But the trolling keeps on rollin'...
.

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Re: Can't explain this NDE, any ideas?

Postby gorgeous » Mon Aug 07, 2017 10:46 pm

my sister's ex father in law was told by his dead brother he would die soon, not to worry, the other dead relatives were waiting for him..
Science Fundamentalism...is exactly what happens when there’s a significant, perceived ideological threat to one’s traditions and identity.

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Re: Can't explain this NDE, any ideas?

Postby Matthew Ellard » Mon Aug 07, 2017 11:24 pm

gorgeous wrote:my sister's ex father in law was told by his dead brother he would die soon, not to worry, the other dead relatives were waiting for him..
No fabricated anecdotes, thanks.... :lol:

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Re: Can't explain this NDE, any ideas?

Postby Nikki Nyx » Tue Aug 08, 2017 4:35 am

gorgeous wrote:my sister's ex father in law was told by his dead brother he would die soon, not to worry, the other dead relatives were waiting for him..

My little baby then became a brother-in-law to dad
And so became my uncle, though it made me very sad
For if he were my uncle, then that also made him brother
Of the widow's grownup daughter, who was of course my step-mother
What are the facts? Again and again and again-what are the facts? Shun wishful thinking, ignore divine revelation, forget what “the stars foretell,” avoid opinion, care not what the neighbors think, never mind the unguessable “verdict of history”--what are the facts, and to how many decimal places? You pilot always into an unknown future; facts are your single clue. Get the facts!
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Re: Can't explain this NDE, any ideas?

Postby Confidencia » Tue Aug 08, 2017 8:12 pm

gorgeous wrote:good story, I have the book...it is common that people near dying are shown their future and that they can exist without the body....one man was told he was going to die from a heart attack and to get his affairs in order...he did and waited to leave....a woman was told her pacemaker would fail and she would die...she told a relative to tell her husband she would be ok....


Yes in pure awareness past, present and future roll into the eternal now, from this standpoint you see the whole picture .

OBE's and NDE's happens when the focus of awareness disseminates beyond its field of consciousness. Ordinarily the waking state is limited and restricted to this field via brain consciousness.

Obviously to see the whole of consciousness one must be beyond it in full awareness. This may not be obvious to a sock puppet or muppet because it is not in the text books or accepted in general. In any case they normally find it difficult to reach beyond the prescribed consensus of conventional wisdom.
Last edited by Confidencia on Tue Aug 08, 2017 10:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Can't explain this NDE, any ideas?

Postby scrmbldggs » Tue Aug 08, 2017 8:14 pm

Orderly!
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Re: Can't explain this NDE, any ideas?

Postby Matthew Ellard » Tue Aug 08, 2017 10:58 pm

gorgeous wrote:my sister's ex father in law was told by his dead brother he would die soon, not to worry, the other dead relatives were waiting for him..
You already spammed this made up fantasy in two other threads.

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Re: Can't explain this NDE, any ideas?

Postby Matthew Ellard » Tue Aug 08, 2017 11:00 pm

Confidencia wrote: ....... roll into the eternal now.......,.
It is hard to not laugh at your ongoing stupidity. :lol:

How can "now" be "eternal" ?

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Re: Can't explain this NDE, any ideas?

Postby gorgeous » Tue Aug 08, 2017 11:18 pm

all time is in the now moment...as nders and obers have discovered... you exist unfortunately in other times now, past and future...
Science Fundamentalism...is exactly what happens when there’s a significant, perceived ideological threat to one’s traditions and identity.

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Re: Can't explain this NDE, any ideas?

Postby Matthew Ellard » Tue Aug 08, 2017 11:20 pm

gorgeous wrote:all time is in the now moment....
That doesn't make sense. How can "next week" be "now"?

Have you had a minor stroke or something like that?
:lol:

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Re: Can't explain this NDE, any ideas?

Postby gorgeous » Wed Aug 09, 2017 12:12 am

diff dimensions
Science Fundamentalism...is exactly what happens when there’s a significant, perceived ideological threat to one’s traditions and identity.

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Re: Can't explain this NDE, any ideas?

Postby Matthew Ellard » Wed Aug 09, 2017 12:18 am

gorgeous wrote:diff dimensions
Which different time dimensions? There are ten physical dimensions and only one time dimension.

What is your evidence that says otherwise?
:lol:

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Re: Can't explain this NDE, any ideas?

Postby scrmbldggs » Wed Aug 09, 2017 12:21 am

To georgie, every individual topic and thread is a "dimension". That explains the same old boring spam over and over and over and over again...
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Re: Can't explain this NDE, any ideas?

Postby Confidencia » Wed Aug 09, 2017 1:04 am

Here is every where now is always. For the sock puppets, today you can say I am HERE NOW or HERE I am NOW wherever that maybe. Tomorrow you can be on the other side of the world and still be HERE because here is everywhere and it is always NOW. In fact it could be ten thousand years prior or next month or next year, or a thousand or ten thousand years into the future, it makes no difference. The eternal now is ever present, hence the reason it is called the eternal now, because it is timeless.

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Re: Can't explain this NDE, any ideas?

Postby Matthew Ellard » Wed Aug 09, 2017 1:16 am

Confidencia wrote: Here is every where now is always. For the sock puppets, today you can say I am HERE NOW or HERE I am NOW wherever that maybe. Tomorrow you can be on the other side of the world and still be HERE because here is everywhere and it is always NOW. In fact it could be ten thousand years prior or next month or next year, or a thousand or ten thousand years into the future, it makes no difference. The eternal now is ever present, hence the reason it is called the eternal now, because it is timeless.


So you don't own a watch and can't tell the time? Fascinating. :lol:

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Re: Can't explain this NDE, any ideas?

Postby Nikki Nyx » Wed Aug 09, 2017 4:31 am

Roger Waters contemplated adding that as the last verse of "Time," but the rest of the band beat him about the face and neck until he desisted.
What are the facts? Again and again and again-what are the facts? Shun wishful thinking, ignore divine revelation, forget what “the stars foretell,” avoid opinion, care not what the neighbors think, never mind the unguessable “verdict of history”--what are the facts, and to how many decimal places? You pilot always into an unknown future; facts are your single clue. Get the facts!
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Re: Can't explain this NDE, any ideas?

Postby Shen1986 » Wed Aug 09, 2017 4:45 am

Kamil wrote:"Now, all this was three years ago, but it is still just as vivid as it was then. It was the most fantastic thing that has ever happened to me, and it has made a big difference. But I don't talk about it. I have only told my wife, my brother, my minister, and now you.


Nothing more to say here. Also Jack did not seen anything special in particular just his operating room when he had a OBE from what I read. Something he could have seen before or even after his surgery. No special cards or numbers that cannot be tested or verified.
"Death Dies Hard." - Deathstars.

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Re: Can't explain this NDE, any ideas?

Postby Phoenix76 » Wed Aug 09, 2017 9:54 am

Well, whatever. Gorgeous is an idiot, we all know that.

But, when it's all said and done, the mind is a marvellous thing. Our mind in times of stress can recall times past, illusions, wishes, whatever. It is a remarkable just what the mind can conjure up.

As stated, there is no scientific evidence to support OBE's or NDE's. The only assumptions are that the mind conjures up these so called experiences. Not for one second do I claim to be able to understand it all, but all I can say is that what I've experienced in 71 years tells me that the mind is vastly more powerful than anything else we can experience.

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Re: Can't explain this NDE, any ideas?

Postby gorgeous » Wed Aug 09, 2017 11:08 am

phoenix is an ignorant moron....proven everytime it posts..
Science Fundamentalism...is exactly what happens when there’s a significant, perceived ideological threat to one’s traditions and identity.

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Re: Can't explain this NDE, any ideas?

Postby Confidencia » Wed Aug 09, 2017 4:55 pm

Phoenix76 wrote:Well, whatever. Gorgeous is an idiot, we all know that.

But, when it's all said and done, the mind is a marvellous thing. Our mind in times of stress can recall times past, illusions, wishes, whatever. It is a remarkable just what the mind can conjure up.


If left to its own mechanisms it is also greedy, heartless, stupid; ignorant, afraid, insensitive; fool hardy; callous boastful, sly; devious, egotistic narsistic and self centred.

As stated, there is no scientific evidence to support OBE's or NDE's.


And there need not be, it is self evident so there is no need of any external proof. Those who have experienced the phenomena know it, those who have not experienced the phenomena obviously do not know it.

The only assumptions are that the mind conjures up these so called experiences. Not for one second do I claim to be able to understand it all, but all I can say is that what I've experienced in 71 years tells me that the mind is vastly more powerful than anything else we can experience.


im glad you said experience. Mind is like the future, if left to itself it merely repeats the past. At your age you should be more concerned with the fundamental fact of what lies beyond the mind rather than what it contains. Because it is governed by the conditions of consciousness, there can be no end to its content. Consciousness is always of change. Nevertheless what has a beginning must have an end. Find out about that which does not have a beginning nor ending. And by all means use the mind to help you,. But for as long as you allow it to auto suggest and dictate to you you will be its slave only knowing what it tells you.

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Re: Can't explain this NDE, any ideas?

Postby Matthew Ellard » Wed Aug 09, 2017 11:22 pm

Phoenix76 wrote:Gorgeous is an idiot, we all know that.
Well everyone knows that except Confidencia, the current sock puppet name of Shaka. A self proclaimed "guru", who is so embarrassed by his own previous posts, he has changed his forum name more that ten times.

Isn't that right Shaka?, AKA Clarifyit4me, AKA Confidencia.

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Re: Can't explain this NDE, any ideas?

Postby Gawdzilla Sama » Wed Aug 09, 2017 11:51 pm

Evidently I'll not drunk enough to follow this thread.
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Re: Can't explain this NDE, any ideas?

Postby scrmbldggs » Thu Aug 10, 2017 12:07 am

Just wait until all time nows and the "two or three hours between" disappear! :-P







. :ahoy:
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Re: Can't explain this NDE, any ideas?

Postby Gord » Thu Aug 10, 2017 3:56 am

Gawdzilla Sama wrote:Evidently I'll not drunk enough to follow this thread.

Here, try this one: https://answers.yahoo.com/question/inde ... 019AAojkOr
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Re: Can't explain this NDE, any ideas?

Postby Phoenix76 » Thu Aug 10, 2017 10:06 am

Well Confidencia, your response to my post completely lost me. I might not be a qualified scientist, but I surley know that you must produce evidence to support your theory.

I said that you provided no scientific evidence to support your theory. You responded that there not need be. My friend, you just blew yourself and your theory out of the water. No causation, no association, your thread is just crap.

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Re: Can't explain this NDE, any ideas?

Postby Phoenix76 » Thu Aug 10, 2017 10:09 am

Mat, guess I'm new on this forum, so I don't know the backgrounds of posters here. I'm learning but still have a way to go. Guess when you read their arguments you start to understand, but it does take a little time.

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Re: Can't explain this NDE, any ideas?

Postby Gawdzilla Sama » Thu Aug 10, 2017 12:24 pm

Gord wrote:
Gawdzilla Sama wrote:Evidently I'll not drunk enough to follow this thread.

Here, try this one: https://answers.yahoo.com/question/inde ... 019AAojkOr

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Re: Can't explain this NDE, any ideas?

Postby Matthew Ellard » Thu Aug 10, 2017 11:21 pm

Phoenix76 wrote:Mat, guess I'm new on this forum, so I don't know the backgrounds of posters here. I'm learning but still have a way to go. Guess when you read their arguments you start to understand, but it does take a little time.


Don't worry about it. Confidencia is just the new sockpuppet name for Clarifyit4me aka Shaka. Shaka is a religious dualism follower, but shunned by his fellow dualism followers, so he comes here under a variety of names and posts his own form of dualism propaganda and has done so for about four years, under different names.

He is tolerated here because his posts can be unintentionally hilarious. Sadly, most of his posts are just incoherent garbage. He has to keep changing his forum name to avoid his previous conflicting posts and because he realises most people have put his earlier forum sock puppet names on ignore.
:D

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Re: Can't explain this NDE, any ideas?

Postby Confidencia » Thu Aug 17, 2017 10:31 am

Phoenix76 wrote:Well Confidencia, your response to my post completely lost me. I might not be a qualified scientist, but I surley know that you must produce evidence to support your theory.


And what about yourself? Do you need a scientist to prove that you exist? Are you a theory?

I said that you provided no scientific evidence to support your theory. You responded that there not need be. My friend, you just blew yourself and your theory out of the water. No causation, no association, your thread is just crap.
.

You will say whatever your mind dictates to you. In that sense the post will appeal to what you like, if it appears as crap then perhaps you should look more closely at the conditions your mind has set out for you. Your mind is instrumental, if left to its own devices it can be quite detrimental.

Nevertheless I'm only pointing to the fact not the phenomena. Theories are not real however elaborate you make them, they are just ways of explaining the inexplicable.

Proof applied to a thing is of course evidential, but what touch stone can you bring to provide proof of your proof?

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Matt MVS7 Trolling Thread No8

Postby Matthew Ellard » Thu Aug 17, 2017 10:15 pm

Confidencia wrote:And what about yourself? Do you need a scientist to prove that you exist? Are you a theory?
We have been through this before. You are confused again. :lol:

1) We already know we exist

2) There is external evidence we all exist that is scientific, documented and also evidenced through social interaction.

3) You religiously claim we create our own realities but insist on trolling the forum telling us your wisdom from your reality, which clearly indicates you don't believe in your own bull-shit and are just a lonely troll with no friends and thus no social interaction.
:lol:

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Re: Matt MVS7 Trolling Thread No8

Postby Nikki Nyx » Fri Aug 18, 2017 5:46 pm

Matthew Ellard wrote:3) You religiously claim we create our own realities but insist on trolling the forum telling us your wisdom from your reality, which clearly indicates you don't believe in your own bull-shit and are just a lonely troll with no friends and thus no social interaction. :lol:
If Confidencia creates his own realities, then he sadomasochistically created us and this forum to torment him. Q.E.D.
What are the facts? Again and again and again-what are the facts? Shun wishful thinking, ignore divine revelation, forget what “the stars foretell,” avoid opinion, care not what the neighbors think, never mind the unguessable “verdict of history”--what are the facts, and to how many decimal places? You pilot always into an unknown future; facts are your single clue. Get the facts!
—Lazarus Long, from Time Enough for Love, by Robert A. Heinlein

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Re: Can't explain this NDE, any ideas?

Postby gorgeous » Mon Sep 25, 2017 2:44 pm

atheist in nde said "why am I here (with God) ..I don't believe in you"....was told "you are my child, welcome home" https://youtu.be/ii1UDGWi6Gk
Science Fundamentalism...is exactly what happens when there’s a significant, perceived ideological threat to one’s traditions and identity.

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Re: Can't explain this NDE, any ideas?

Postby Monster » Mon Sep 25, 2017 7:15 pm

Kamil wrote:Can't explain this NDE, any ideas?

I didn't read your wall of text. I apologize for commenting on your idea without reading it.

If you're going with this sort of thinking:

I can't explain X, thus it must be Y!
or
I can't explain X, thus it supports my proposition Z!

then you've failed. That sort of thinking is fallacious and you need to stop.
Listening twice as much as you speak is a sign of wisdom.


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