Hey guys, what are your thoughts on this man's NDE and OBE?

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Hey guys, what are your thoughts on this man's NDE and OBE?

Postby violeta » Sat Dec 24, 2016 2:53 am

http://www.near-death.com/science/evide ... -days.html

George Rodonaia's OBE where he is "dead" but hears a baby crying. The baby keeps crying, parents don't know what to do. During his OBE, he goes to another hospital room, sees the baby, and he can converse with the baby. He realises that the reason why the baby is crying is because his arm is twisted/broken. Later on, after he is revived, he is able to share this with the baby's parents.

Do you believe this story? Why or why not?

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Re: Hey guys, what are your thoughts on this man's NDE and OBE?

Postby scrmbldggs » Sat Dec 24, 2016 3:06 am

Just because someone can type the words "science" and "evidence", one shouldn't believe everything they say. Even georgie can copy pasta them. :-P

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Re: Hey guys, what are your thoughts on this man's NDE and OBE?

Postby scrmbldggs » Sat Dec 24, 2016 3:12 am

Oh, and if you really want to learn about NDEs, you could make yourself familiar with the massive failure of the AWARE study. Major brouhaha around it and a major flop it was...

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Re: Hey guys, what are your thoughts on this man's NDE and OBE?

Postby violeta » Sat Dec 24, 2016 3:23 am

scrmbldggs wrote:Oh, and if you really want to learn about NDEs, you could make yourself familiar with the massive failure of the AWARE study. Major brouhaha around it and a major flop it was...


wait but would you even count the AWARE study? from what I understand there were only around 140 people who actually had experiences out of 2000 and only 2 percent had OBEs which means it was not fully tested.

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Re: Hey guys, what are your thoughts on this man's NDE and OBE?

Postby scrmbldggs » Sat Dec 24, 2016 3:30 am

violeta wrote:
scrmbldggs wrote:Oh, and if you really want to learn about NDEs, you could make yourself familiar with the massive failure of the AWARE study. Major brouhaha around it and a major flop it was...


wait but would you even count the AWARE study? from what I understand there were only around 140 people who actually had experiences out of 2000 and only 2 percent had OBEs which means it was not fully tested.

No, it was finished. And out of the final candidates, 50% were reported to have had something that might be called an NDE. Except, there were only two (2) final candidates and the one reported stemmed from a previous study. IIRC, he also was a cardiac patient very likely to have had a simple anesthetic awareness episode (rare, but those can happen with light anesthesia, which is more common with cardiac patients).

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Re: Hey guys, what are your thoughts on this man's NDE and OBE?

Postby gorgeous » Sat Dec 24, 2016 11:03 am

his nde was real
Science Fundamentalism...is exactly what happens when there’s a significant, perceived ideological threat to one’s traditions and identity.

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Re: Hey guys, what are your thoughts on this man's NDE and OBE?

Postby scrmbldggs » Sat Dec 24, 2016 6:04 pm

tl;dr

But what's your evidence to back up your extensive assertion?

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Re: Hey guys, what are your thoughts on this man's NDE and OBE?

Postby Shen1986 » Sun Dec 25, 2016 6:03 am

Here is a full sceptic look on the whole NDE which I wrote sometime ago:

viewtopic.php?t=21481

The most interesting thing why I do not buy this story is:

- The author is a reverend - religious figure.

Its strange he could just talk to the baby but not to his friends. Also another strange thing is that it contradicts this NDE:

"l could talk to the baby. It was amazing. I could not talk to the parents - my friends - but I could talk to the little boy who had just been born. I asked him what was wrong. No words were exchanged, but I asked him maybe through telepathy what was wrong. He told me that his arm hurt. And when he told me that, I was able to see that the bone was twisted and broken."


Source: http://www.near-death.com/science/evide ... -days.html

- He knew the child before and it was a child of his friend, he knew they were pregnant:

"Then he visited his next-door neighbor. They had a new child, born a couple of days before Yuri's "death." Yuri could tell that they were upset by what happened to him. But they were especially distressed by the fact that their child would not stop crying.


Source: http://www.near-death.com/science/evide ... -days.html

Conclusion: It all happened if it did happen inside his head. He deduced some things or heard them, nothing special and its odd he could only speak to the child but not parents this is a major problem if this story should be believable.
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Re: Hey guys, what are your thoughts on this man's NDE and OBE?

Postby gorgeous » Sun Dec 25, 2016 1:59 pm

he became a reverend after his experience....it changed his outlook....it is common that adults won't hear your thoughts....the baby was not able to speak...so it communicated mentally...makes sense..babies are not fully immersed in the physical body or dimension yet...they are more connected to the non-physical still.....non-humans that don't have a language we know also communicate mentally..
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Re: Hey guys, what are your thoughts on this man's NDE and OBE?

Postby scrmbldggs » Sun Dec 25, 2016 3:55 pm

As mentioned before - get help.

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Re: Hey guys, what are your thoughts on this man's NDE and OBE?

Postby Shen1986 » Mon Dec 26, 2016 5:25 am

gorgeous wrote:he became a reverend after his experience....it changed his outlook....it is common that adults won't hear your thoughts....the baby was not able to speak...so it communicated mentally...makes sense..babies are not fully immersed in the physical body or dimension yet...they are more connected to the non-physical still.....non-humans that don't have a language we know also communicate mentally..


1st thing how do you know all that stuff. 2nd excuses and nothing more because in other NDEs people claim that adults were able to hear their thoughts and that is the problem every NDE is different - in one adults hear thoughts in others children hear thoughts and in others no one hears them and the person with the NDE claims that there was a spiritual wall and that no one could hear it.

I have nothing more to say to this because this what I wrote shows that NDEs are nothing more then hallucinations or dream like states.
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Re: Hey guys, what are your thoughts on this man's NDE and OBE?

Postby gorgeous » Mon Dec 26, 2016 2:57 pm

it was in the description of his obe....show me a dream or hallucination....no proof that they exist..just more desperate explanations...
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Re: Hey guys, what are your thoughts on this man's NDE and OBE?

Postby scrmbldggs » Mon Dec 26, 2016 3:44 pm

You act like you are willing or able to accept evidence, which you are not. So it's just your usual trolling...

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Re: Hey guys, what are your thoughts on this man's NDE and OBE?

Postby gorgeous » Mon Dec 26, 2016 4:30 pm

where is the evidence for dreams and hallucinations?
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Re: Hey guys, what are your thoughts on this man's NDE and OBE?

Postby scrmbldggs » Mon Dec 26, 2016 5:05 pm

Dig this

Spoiler:
Image

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Re: Hey guys, what are your thoughts on this man's NDE and OBE?

Postby Kevin Levites » Mon Jan 30, 2017 12:14 pm

I was a paramedic for many years, and have a relevant anecdote.

We were transporting (routine) a terminally ill patient (pancreatic cancer) from a hospital to a hospice facility.

He stopped talking when we entered the elevator, and laughed when we exited on the ground floor. I asked him to share the joke, and he described--in very vivid terms--an OBE wherehe was floating above himself and looking down at his body, which was why he thought he died.

I returned to the same hospital later that night for another call, and discovered that the elevator had a mirrored ceiling.

This is a true story.
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Re: Hey guys, what are your thoughts on this man's NDE and OBE?

Postby gorgeous » Mon Jan 30, 2017 2:32 pm

been posted before ...fake...
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Re: Hey guys, what are your thoughts on this man's NDE and OBE?

Postby Poodle » Mon Jan 30, 2017 3:56 pm

It has the same amount of evidence as any of your stories, gorgeous. Using your criteria, then, it must be true.

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Re: Hey guys, what are your thoughts on this man's NDE and OBE?

Postby Kevin Levites » Wed Feb 01, 2017 5:15 am

I'm not faking or misrepresenting. Honest. I wrote a letter to Skeptical Inquirer about this over a decade ago, and it was published.
"I'm allergic to B.S., and I think I need some Benadryl."

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Re: Hey guys, what are your thoughts on this man's NDE and OBE?

Postby scrmbldggs » Wed Feb 01, 2017 5:23 am

Georgie might have read this old post of yours, Kevin. :-P

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Re: Hey guys, what are your thoughts on this man's NDE and OBE?

Postby Kevin Levites » Wed Feb 01, 2017 5:34 am

Thank you for anwering
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Re: Hey guys, what are your thoughts on this man's NDE and OBE?

Postby Genaro » Sun Mar 05, 2017 1:31 pm

"On Materialism as Science Dogma"
by Neal Grossman, Dept. of Philosophy, Univ. of Illinois at Chicago
(to appear in Journal of Near Death Studies as "Who's Afraid of Life After Death?")

(The following essay focuses on the Near Death Experience (NDE) as evidence that science has -- to its detriment -- become a dogmatic belief system wedded to reductionist materialism rather than being a neutral, objective method for investigating reality of any sort. One could effectively substitute the three letters "UFO" for "NDE." The advantage of dealing with NDE is that there is no doubt whatsoever as to the existence of the phenomeon; the interpretation, of course, being another matter.)

http://www.ufoskeptic.org/grossman.html
Last edited by Genaro on Wed Mar 08, 2017 8:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Hey guys, what are your thoughts on this man's NDE and OBE?

Postby Nobrot » Sun Mar 05, 2017 3:40 pm

Well he would say that wouldn’t he?
"He is on the Board of Directors of the Chicago Chapter of the International Association for Near-Death Studies..."

Snip...
The materialist can, in principle, give no account of how a person acquires veridical information about events remote from his or her body. Consider, for example, the kind of case where the NDEer accurately reports the conversation occurring in the waiting room while his body is unconscious in the operating room.

Snip...
Moreover, the evidence against materialism comes not only from the NDE, but from other areas of research as well. Both mediumship, which has been extensively investigated since the time of William James, and Stevenson-type cases of children who have verified true memories of past lives, offer an abundance evidence against materialism.

Genaro you are clearly trawling the interwebz for material to supports your conjectures, not theories, not hypotheses, conjecture. The fact that you latch onto this crank philosopher indicates how desperate you are. Give it up. Find a hobby, get drunk and be somebody for once. Science needs philosophers like Grossman the way birds need ornithologists.
Dude give it up. What you're doing borders on fanaticism.

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Re: Hey guys, what are your thoughts on this man's NDE and OBE?

Postby Pyrrho » Sun Mar 05, 2017 3:41 pm

Genaro, please do not post entire articles. You may post a brief excerpt with a link to the full article.

Please edit your post accordingly.
For any forum questions or concerns please e-mail skepticforum@gmail.com or send a PM.

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Re: Hey guys, what are your thoughts on this man's NDE and OBE?

Postby Gawdzilla Sama » Sun Mar 05, 2017 6:28 pm

There should be a special hell for necroing an NDE thread.
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Re: Hey guys, what are your thoughts on this man's NDE and OBE?

Postby Matthew Ellard » Sun Mar 05, 2017 10:26 pm

Genaro wrote:Neal Grossman, Dept. of Philosophy, "....no one who has had a NDE feels any need for an explanation in the reductionist sense that researchers are seeking" .


Same for people who take heroin or believe they hear voices in their head...... yet scientists have normal pragmatic explanations for these feelings. :D

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Re: Hey guys, what are your thoughts on this man's NDE and OBE?

Postby Genaro » Wed Mar 08, 2017 8:39 pm

Sorry pyrrho. Done.


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