Can anyone suggest a naturalistic explanation?

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LogicalSceptic
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Can anyone suggest a naturalistic explanation?

Postby LogicalSceptic » Fri Dec 09, 2016 7:52 pm

There are a number of things that have happened to me in my life that have been strange.
All of them bar one I can explain away as naturalistic even though I couldn't prove them to have mundane causes.

However, as stated above there was one event (rather a series of events) that I can think of no logical explanation.
I have changed the names of the people in the events I'll describe below.

In the early 1990's my friend Dan and his wife Sarah moved house. Their new house was built around the 1930's and was in the centre of my home town.
The first time we visited I needed to use their bathroom. Once in there I had a really uneasy feeling. In fact I couldn't wait to get out as it felt like I was being watched.

I said nothing. Partly because I felt silly and partly because you don't go to someones new home and say "I feel freaked out when I'm in your bathroom"

Dan and Sarah lived there until the early 2000's and during the 10 years they lived there I hated going to their bathroom. I always felt quite freaked out, often running down the stairs with my zip still open having not washed my hands.
In all this time I never told anyone, not even my wife. I felt too silly.

So in early 2000's Dan and Sarah moved to a new house. In this new house all was fine. They are still there today and all is still fine.

About 5 years after they had moved away from this 'odd' house, one evening my wife and I were chatting to Dan and Sarah in their new home about some other friends of ours (Amy and Nathan) who were house hunting.

Sarah was telling us how it was a real pain for Nathan to go house hunting with Amy because Amy was 'quite psychic'. Amy would walk through the front door of a house they'd arranged a viewing for and if she felt the house wasn't right the viewing would be over in seconds.

Sarah then told me that the first time Amy came round their old house, Amy said "Your have a spirit upstairs, a man who watches people when they are in the bathroom"

At this point, the hairs stood up on the back of my neck and I blurted out what I had felt for the ten years they had lived there that I always felt I was being watched.

Sarah then said she knew about it because her best friend from school Ruth once ran down the stairs with her jeans still around her ankles because she was so freaked out because she felt she was being watched.

One final thing Sarah mentions is that when they lived there and their daughter was a toddler, she found her daughter one day standing at the foot of the stairs facing up the stairs with her arms held up like she did when she wanted someone to pick her up but Sarah said there was no-one on the stairs.

So it is these series of events that I cannot think of any logical explanation for.
It happened over a period of 10 years, happened to others and Amy wasn't even upstairs in the bathroom and had sensed it.

The other thing I will mention and I'm not sure if this is pure imagination as it was a few years ago now but even though I saw nothing and only sensed it, I could tell you exactly were this 'thing' was standing because of the feeling of being watched. It was at the far end of the upstairs hallway next to the window facing the bathroom door.

Is there a naturalistic explanation for this?

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Re: Can anyone suggest a naturalistic explanation?

Postby Gawdzilla Sama » Sat Dec 10, 2016 12:42 am

You want us to do the heavy lifting? What do YOU think it was?
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Re: Can anyone suggest a naturalistic explanation?

Postby Flash » Sat Dec 10, 2016 12:48 am

The naturalistic explanation for what? Your fantastic unverified stories? Tell Amy to get back on her prescription anti-psychotic medications and the rest of you do fewer magic mushrooms or chemicals whichever might be the case and stop believing in BS.

Really? You had run into a ghost who not only turned out to be a peeping Tom but also had a bad case of diarrhea? :mrgreen:
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Re: Can anyone suggest a naturalistic explanation?

Postby gorgeous » Sat Dec 10, 2016 12:54 am

sounds like a spook to me.....
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Re: Can anyone suggest a naturalistic explanation?

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Sat Dec 10, 2016 1:18 am

A baby is standing with its arms outstretched?

WHY THATS TOTALLY MIND BOGGLING. sign me up for the spiritual world being confirmed.

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Re: Can anyone suggest a naturalistic explanation?

Postby TJrandom » Sat Dec 10, 2016 3:56 am

The proof of the bathroom events can be found on any porn site - just look for `bathroom hidden camera` clips. :flushed:

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Re: Can anyone suggest a naturalistic explanation?

Postby scrmbldggs » Sat Dec 10, 2016 5:19 am

LogicalSkeptic wrote:...In all this time I never told anyone, not even my wife. I felt too silly...About 5 years after they had moved away from this 'odd' house, one evening my wife and I were chatting to Dan and Sarah in their new home about some other friends of ours (Amy and Nathan) who were house hunting...Amy was 'quite psychic'...Sarah then told me that the first time Amy came round their old house, Amy said "Your[sic] have a spirit upstairs, a man who watches people when they are in the bathroom"...
(Emphasis mine)

Are you absolutely certain you never mentioned anything to anyone about your unsettling sensations?

And what about "Ruth"? That incident had never been discussed by any of your acquaintances?


You see, there are some people who are very observant and also have a pretty good memory and computing skills. Who tend to soak up information like a sponge (often quite unconsciously) and who later (sometimes much later) arrive at things that seem out of the ordinary, even miraculous. Some, like cold readers, train themselves in such, others do it quite naturally and baffle others (and often themselves) with their "psychic" abilities...

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Re: Can anyone suggest a naturalistic explanation?

Postby LogicalSceptic » Sat Dec 10, 2016 7:48 am

Are you absolutely certain you never mentioned anything to anyone about your unsettling sensations?

And what about "Ruth"? That incident had never been discussed by any of your acquaintances?


You see, there are some people who are very observant and also have a pretty good memory and computing skills. Who tend to soak up information like a sponge (often quite unconsciously) and who later (sometimes much later) arrive at things that seem out of the ordinary, even miraculous. Some, like cold readers, train themselves in such, others do it quite naturally and baffle others (and often themselves) with their "psychic" abilities...


Thanks for the considered response scrmbldggs.
I've wracked my brains trying to think if I ever told anyone. I genuinely don't believe I did but it's always a possibility.
My friends wife could then have subconsciously 'imagined' the rest of the story or pieced together events and embellished events in her mind.

Our minds are very powerful and can play tricks on us so yours is a decent explanation.

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Re: Can anyone suggest a naturalistic explanation?

Postby LogicalSceptic » Sat Dec 10, 2016 8:27 am

Gawdzilla Sama wrote:You want us to do the heavy lifting? What do YOU think it was?


I once saw a documentary where a science lab was thought to be haunted.
People working there alone would feel uneasy.
They would see something moving out of the corner of their eye. Turn round and there'd be nothing there.
The mystery was solved when they found that a gadget in the lab ( I can't recall what) was generating and electro-magnetic field which was causing the hallucinations.

That's the best I could come up with.

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Re: Can anyone suggest a naturalistic explanation?

Postby TJrandom » Sat Dec 10, 2016 9:31 am

Ruth once ran down the stairs with her jeans still around her ankles ...


BTW - this is not humanly possible. You can fall down the stairs. You can slide down the stairs. But you cannot run down the stairs with jeans still around your ankles.

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Re: Can anyone suggest a naturalistic explanation?

Postby LogicalSceptic » Sat Dec 10, 2016 11:16 am

TJrandom wrote:
Ruth once ran down the stairs with her jeans still around her ankles ...


BTW - this is not humanly possible. You can fall down the stairs. You can slide down the stairs. But you cannot run down the stairs with jeans still around your ankles.


How about "waddle". :)

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Re: Can anyone suggest a naturalistic explanation?

Postby Gawdzilla Sama » Sat Dec 10, 2016 11:29 am

LogicalSceptic wrote:
TJrandom wrote:
Ruth once ran down the stairs with her jeans still around her ankles ...


BTW - this is not humanly possible. You can fall down the stairs. You can slide down the stairs. But you cannot run down the stairs with jeans still around your ankles.


How about "waddle". :)

Curly, Larry, and Moe could do it.
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Re: Can anyone suggest a naturalistic explanation?

Postby Angel » Sat Dec 10, 2016 12:32 pm

First off~ was anybody ever hurt?
If not ~ some people tend to exaggerate
their feelings. What was a light breeze
becomes the gust of wind that have them
an ear infection ...
I sence sprites . It requires a number of
cooperative sprites to make a body image
and maintain it. They were there first so
it's their playground . They share but because
they are so fast~ if you get in their part ~
they will have no choice but to go through you.
Like neutrinos that gathered dust over time.
They get fat so you can sence them.
I have found them friendly. Someone watching over you is hard for some people to handle.
I don't mind. It keeps me a honest liar. ;-)

Oh ya ~ to keep them out ~ block all natural
light into the room. They ride on sunbeams.
Remember the next time you walk into a
bright sunny room and a flying dust bunny
flashes you the pearly whites of his eyes. ;-)

What drives most people insane is the
sudden shock of knowing they will never
be alone again. I was never alone to begin
with. God is there ~ somewhere. But in the
mean time ~ there are the others. I'm not
much on labelling them as they grow and
change so phast. Outgrowing labels.
Last edited by Angel on Sat Dec 10, 2016 12:56 pm, edited 2 times in total.
To be or not to be?
To believe or
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To be live or
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To exist or
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Re: Can anyone suggest a naturalistic explanation?

Postby TJrandom » Sat Dec 10, 2016 12:33 pm

LogicalSceptic wrote:
TJrandom wrote:
Ruth once ran down the stairs with her jeans still around her ankles ...


BTW - this is not humanly possible. You can fall down the stairs. You can slide down the stairs. But you cannot run down the stairs with jeans still around your ankles.


How about "waddle". :)


Maybe lie?

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Re: Can anyone suggest a naturalistic explanation?

Postby LogicalSceptic » Sat Dec 10, 2016 12:37 pm

TJrandom wrote:
LogicalSceptic wrote:
TJrandom wrote:
Ruth once ran down the stairs with her jeans still around her ankles ...


BTW - this is not humanly possible. You can fall down the stairs. You can slide down the stairs. But you cannot run down the stairs with jeans still around your ankles.


How about "waddle". :)


Maybe lie?


Knowing her as long as I have, I would say not. Then again, do we ever really know our friends?

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Re: Can anyone suggest a naturalistic explanation?

Postby scrmbldggs » Sat Dec 10, 2016 5:03 pm

LogicalSceptic wrote:
Are you absolutely certain you never mentioned anything to anyone about your unsettling sensations?

And what about "Ruth"? That incident had never been discussed by any of your acquaintances?


You see, there are some people who are very observant and also have a pretty good memory and computing skills. Who tend to soak up information like a sponge (often quite unconsciously) and who later (sometimes much later) arrive at things that seem out of the ordinary, even miraculous. Some, like cold readers, train themselves in such, others do it quite naturally and baffle others (and often themselves) with their "psychic" abilities...


Thanks for the considered response scrmbldggs.
I've wracked my brains trying to think if I ever told anyone. I genuinely don't believe I did but it's always a possibility.
My friends wife could then have subconsciously 'imagined' the rest of the story or pieced together events and embellished events in her mind.

Our minds are very powerful and can play tricks on us so yours is a decent explanation.

For all we know you might have eventually breathed a very audible sign of relief, perhaps either when your friends moved, or when the others had been house hunting and it came up again in conversation.

Something to the tunes of, "Boy, am I glad I wont have to go there anymore. I always felt like I was being watched upstairs. Creepy!" ;)

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Re: Can anyone suggest a naturalistic explanation?

Postby Lance Kennedy » Wed Dec 14, 2016 9:37 pm

For a start, this is an incorrect use of the word 'naturalistic'. Naturalistic means related to a semi-religious view of nature. For example, Wiccans have a naturalistic religion, based on an unreal view of nature. The belief that anything 'natural' is superior to that which is not natural is called the naturalistic fallacy. What you meant was 'scientific'.

In fact, the explanation should be psychological. People do get neurotic about things, and often it is difficult to know what caused the original neurosis. But the simple explanation is that it is all a delusion. Nothing strange or unusual about that. Lots of people get similar hang ups. The important thing is to recognise that it is irrational, and unreal. Knowing what is happening inside your head is the first step to controlling it.

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Re: Can anyone suggest a naturalistic explanation?

Postby Shuca » Thu Dec 15, 2016 7:59 am

Before jumping to supernatural here are some other possible explanations:

1. Maybe your friend mentioned “Amy” about their bathroom “experiences” and ask her to look around the house and "Amy" said her "diagnose". If she didn’t than there is a possibility of a coincidence. You said that the house is built in 1930 and old houses tend to generate every kind of associations.
2. Psychology – everybody feels uncomfortable there because the place looks ‘spooky’ and story builds up. I mean it is strange that your friends lived there for 10 years despite the strange feeling.
3. Ultrasound and EM field can generate strange feelings

Maybe you should ask the new owners of the house how do they feel while taking a dump :) Maybe the whole story is just pumped up. Also, why would a 'ghost' lurk in front of somebody's bathroom? I mean, for 10 years or more... That is so boring and stupid... Doesn't he have some better things to do in the afterlife?
Last edited by Shuca on Thu Dec 15, 2016 12:19 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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Re: Can anyone suggest a naturalistic explanation?

Postby Lance Kennedy » Thu Dec 15, 2016 8:11 am

My simple explanation would be noises. If I had a dollar for every person who got up in the middle of the night to look for ghosts or burglars, because of the noise from moving roof members (thermal contraction), I would be rich. Noises can create fear while still being at the edge of perception, so that they are not consciously noticed.

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Re: Can anyone suggest a naturalistic explanation?

Postby Angel » Thu Dec 15, 2016 12:55 pm

Lance Kennedy wrote:My simple explanation would be noises. If I had a dollar for every person who got up in the middle of the night to look for ghosts or burglars, because of the noise from moving roof members (thermal contraction), I would be rich. Noises can create fear while still being at the edge of perception, so that they are not consciously noticed.


Times when I cannot sleep ~ I take
mental notes on the noises around me.
For knowledge helps once you do fall
asleep.

The reason I can't watch shows about
chasing ghosts. They jump & panic over
ever single noise. Then blur the vision so
you can't see anything .

Is it the presence of God?
There is a presence.
It causes you to feel.
It makes you to LOL
It makes you to cry.
Mona Lisa had this
presence ~ it caused
her to become famous
for the smile it made her
have. Who lies beneath
the surface of you?
To be or not to be?
To believe or
Not to believe?
To be live or
Not to be live?
To exist or
Not to exist?
What was the question?

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Re: Can anyone suggest a naturalistic explanation?

Postby Austin Harper » Thu Dec 15, 2016 6:27 pm

Lance, I don't want to derail the conversation at hand but I don't want any of the new members to be confused by your post.
Lance Kennedy wrote:For a start, this is an incorrect use of the word 'naturalistic'. Naturalistic means related to a semi-religious view of nature. For example, Wiccans have a naturalistic religion, based on an unreal view of nature.

I have never heard "naturalism" used in the sense you are defining it and I think you are confusing it with nature religion, which is what Wicca is, whereas naturalism is "the idea or belief that only natural (as opposed to supernatural or spiritual) laws and forces operate in the world" (OED). Naturalism can have many uses in this general sense, two of which are spiritual naturalism and religious naturalism, both of which are specifically focused on non-supernatural explanations.
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Re: Can anyone suggest a naturalistic explanation?

Postby ahhell » Thu Dec 15, 2016 6:41 pm

Shuca wrote:Before jumping to supernatural here are some other possible explanations:
2. Psychology – everybody feels uncomfortable there because the place looks ‘spooky’ and story builds up. I mean it is strange that your friends lived there for 10 years despite the strange feeling.
This is my best guess, there's just something odd about the way the bathroom is set up that makes people a little uncomfortable, then over the next ten years someone mentions it to someone and nobody remembers the conversation but the do remember there's something weird about the bathroom.

Edit, something as simple as the walls and/or floors not being quite at right angles might do it. Its pretty much how the "vortex" tourist attractions work, a bunch of optical illusions that discombobulate folks.


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